Unarmed Combat.

BJJ is the best. You say that Muay Thai is better but what is that Thai boxer going to be able to do when he gets taken down? Nothing.
P.S. Muay Thai is great but BJJ is better.

Oh yes I forgot,

Pride FC > UFC

True.

Jason1 said:

BJJ is the best. You say that Muay Thai is better but what is that Thai boxer going to be able to do when he gets taken down? Nothing.
P.S. Muay Thai is great but BJJ is better.

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I can understand where you are coming from. You are biased. You stated that you have trained in BJJ and also with Royce. I hate you for that.
I train it too but not with super stars! <

However, you missed my point.

BJJ is very good. One of the best for one on one.

But if the BJJ practitioner takes someone down, and that someone has friends somewhere, they can come and kick the shit out of the BJJ guys face while he is rolling on the ground.

I do not care if I didn't persuade you. I only typed what I thought.

Yes, BJJ > Muay Thai, in a ring. Outside, it is crazy to do that shit on concrete.

Jason1, on the street, if you want to ROLL AROUND ON CONCRETE, as opposed to finishing it quickly, that is your problem, not mine.

I see your point. But in real life nothing prepares you for having to fight multiple opponents. A Thai boxer can also get dipped on by someone's boys. I know what you mean about rolling around on concrete and shit like that. I mean I also do some Thai boxing but sometimes a guy is just too tough to stand and strike and need to be taken down. If not then they're a fish and not worth even fighting. I would rather get all bruised and broken rolling on the ground and really destroy the person.

sephin said:

Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu. Best for street fights. Dude in UFC used that before there was weight classes and such. Fucked up the biggest guy. Hoice Gracey was his name. The gracey family has their own style too.

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Joyce Gracie was his name.

I wouldn’t recommend BJ on it’s own for a street fight. Although the Gracie’s were championing (and still do) it as the “best” street fighting system it’s not well suited the way Joyce used it. He relied on the guard which requires taking someone to the ground. He also needed time to wear most of his opponents down particularly as the fighting community caught on. Anyone that’s been in a bar/street fight and ended up on the ground knows the hazards of this approach – Boots to the head!

IMO BJ has it’s place but I don’t care much for the clinch or the sloppy shoots. The clinch works no doubt, particularly against lager opponents and if you’ve lost initiative. But given the choice I’d rather stay up or shoot for a leg.

Best supplement to BJ is freestyle wrestling. Good transitions, amazing takedowns (watch your throat!) and they’ve done a good job of adapting it for suBathmateission wrestling.

This goes back to no one style is best... Royce trained in boxing/kickboxing and kickboxers now train in grappling. Why?? because it makes them a more complete fighter. I good fighter these days is one that can utilized movements from boxing to Muy Thai to wrestling to BJJ. Only by becoming well versed in a variety of styles will you have the right tool for a given situation. This is also what Bruce Lee advocated 30-40 years ago...

Jason, how long have you been training with Royce??

Wow I'm so glad this thread got started. Martial Arts and Penis Enlargement are two huge parts of my everyday life and it seems the two are overlapping. Anyway, I have been in the Martial Arts for a long time even though i'm only 18. I have been a long time kickboxer, I've boxed, and continue to wrestle and train Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. I personally believe that if you are looking solely at defending yourself in a night club or bar or on the street a solid striking art is probably the best choice. It will make you the toughest in the shortest amount of time.
When I say solid striking art I'm talking about something where you are constantly giving or taking shots regularly in training. Boxing is good but in my experience you will get hit alot more if you get into a scuffle because lets face it, everyone who tries to start shit at least thinks they know how to throw punches. BJJ is extremely excellent, but i think you will be alot less effective if you are not dedicated to your training. True, someone training BJJ for a month or two can suBathmateit just about any untrained thug, but as far as taking them down or controlling them enough to not get your faced turned into hamburger in the mean time (especially if you pull guard) that takes alot more experience. I would personally choose a solid Muay Thai school, or hard-nosed competitive kickboxing gym, even somewhat over boxing and BJJ for a beginner. There are certain moves like the plum clinch that will give you an extreme striking advantage over just about anyone you can get it on, whether they have previous training or not.
I know my age might seem kinda young but I have been down and dirty in the martial arts world, training with people who I don't think I would trade for anyone else. I have acheived many accolades already in various fighting circuits and plan on breaking into the MMA scene after college. Also with the Kickboxing I think the biggest advantage is having proficient strikes from varying ranges more so than boxing. Of course the best answer is to mix up ground and striking skills, but if you are a beginner with no prior training and want to become a tougher fighter faster, take my advice.
-Joe

Yeah Sikdogg, I believe we have pretty similar views on the Mixed Martial Arts. I would say the same about Jason, but I disagree on the Krav Maga. I have sparred with multiple people that practiced this art for several years, and find alot of holes in the style that I was able to take advantage of and pick apart, but that may just be me. Of course I cannot discredit it completely because i personally have never trained in it, and it may be one of those arts that is much more street oriented then in the ring. If this is the case I apologize, it probably is a great art, its just my opinion that there is better out there.

P.S. Randy Couture, and Frank Shamrock are two of the greatest ever, both excellent technical fighters and besides that they are great ambassadors to the sport with their positive attitude and eloquent speaking nature. I also admire Hughes, Horn, Henderson, and Brennan very much. Partly because I relate to their type of personality.

bIgjOe said:

...I personally believe that if you are looking solely at defending yourself in a night club or bar or on the street a solid striking art is probably the best choice. It will make you the toughest in the shortest amount of time.
When I say solid striking art I'm talking about something where you are constantly giving or taking shots regularly in training. Boxing is good but in my experience you will get hit alot more if you get into a scuffle because lets face it, everyone who tries to start shit at least thinks they know how to throw punches. ...

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I totally agree with you here... in my opinion, boxing is the fastest way to learn self defense. It teaches you head movement, hand skills, footwork, and most of all alot of sparring time. The biggest detriment of most martial arts is the lack of contact sparring or "fight time." Only in sparring can one truely apply what they've learned.

Th only thing i disagree with you on is in a nightclub or bar situation, striking isn't the best course of action in most cases. I've been a bouncer for a short time and have been in a few bar "scuffles" and what i learned is that standup grappling skills rule. It allows you to control an opponent and talk him down before things get out of hand. this was important for me since i was the smallest bouncer and alot of time i had to face guys that were bigger than me. There are some situations where if you apply too much force, you just may cause the persons friends to get involved and cause a riot. I was bouncing at a punk concert once and that's exactly what almost happened, on of the bouncers got too rough and he almost caused a riot. Since we were outnumbered by at least 50 to 1, that would have been really bad for us.

bihjoe, I never said anything about my views on Krav Maga. But I personally think that it BLOWS.

Oh man Jason1 my bad your right, on page 3 you made a comment right after nickynine gave his comments about Krav Maga, I guess I was just reading over that part too fast and got the names jumbled. Sorry about that, but reading over the posts I do like your attitude.
Sikdogg, by mentioning bars and clubs I merely meant situations where fights can happen unexpectedly, or with little notice, and not speaking particularly about bouncers either. However, I cannot disagree that standup grappling is very effective, another reason why I particularly advocated the Muay Thai training as some of their standing clinch work I have found to be very effective. From what I've seen among bouncers I'm assuming the standup grappling you speak of derives more from a wrestling background? Anyway, I've heard from some of the people I train with that are bouncers that it is a very addictive job, do you believe it was harder to get hired as a smaller guy? How much do you weigh? Anyway just making interesting conversation, I'm glad there are other fighters on this forum to talk to as I believe combat athletes are much different than other athletes and we will have better insight in eachother's routines.

Jason1 said:

But I personally think that it BLOWS.

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I agree.

The standup grappling that i've used came from a variety of systems. I wrestled at the state level in high school, had trained in BJJ, and most of my friend were also martial artist so we always exchanged movements and techniques.

You can get quite a rush from the adrenaline when stuff happens and as a martial artist it lets you apply some of the stuff that you've learned so i can see how it's addictive for some. Yea alot of bars/clubs don't like hiring small guy for obvious reasons. That is unless they know you and what you can do. They always prefer a large intimidating looking guys to deter the average Joe from starting trouble in the first place. I weighed around 175-180 when i was bouncing and worked mostly in clubs close to colleges where they hosted local rock/punk bands on weekends.

Hey bro, nice talking to you and if i didn't already say it... welcome to MOS.

Thanks dude, I knew before I joined this was a great group of people because I was reading around, but I still didn't know just how cool you guys were.

Has anyone here trained for any length of time in Pa Kua? If so, how effective did you think the art was for self-defense/combat? I myself was trained a little bit in Pa Kua by a decent instructor in Houston. What little I learned seemed to emphasize footwork, upper-body striking(no kicking), blocking and energy work (read = internal martial art). My personal impression of the art is that it was very good for building core strength, balance, agility and focus/concentration.

I'd like to study Pa Kua more, but I live in Austin (TX) now and don't know of any good instructors. For me, quality instruction is very important. I would not mind studying another art, but again, who's good here in Austin? And by "good," I mean somebody that has great/perfect technique AND knows how to teach well too. Free lessons would be nice too :s (while I'm asking for the impossible ).

wdis3 said:

karate doesnt work on the street

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So karate masters, will not be able to defend themselves in a street fight?
Is that what you are saying?
Why?

By all means, please, enlighten me.