My Strange Approach

Sorry guys distance running jacks up cortisol and lowers testosterone, not exactly good for someone wanting lots of LBathmate. Thats the whole motivation behind HIIT is to run for a short enough duration to avoid catabolism, while intense enough to burn calories and train the cardiovascular system.
 
quijjiboo said:
Sorry guys distance running jacks up cortisol and lowers testosterone, not exactly good for someone wanting lots of LBathmate. Thats the whole motivation behind HIIT is to run for a short enough duration to avoid catabolism, while intense enough to burn calories and train the cardiovascular system.
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So you would say sets of wind sprints would be the better option, if your trying to gain mass? I would agree, but then again I've never made it past 180lbs! Though sprints really build up my thighs and glutes. They also work the crap out of my lungs and heart.
 
quijjiboo said:
Sorry guys distance running jacks up cortisol and lowers testosterone, not exactly good for someone wanting lots of LBathmate. Thats the whole motivation behind HIIT is to run for a short enough duration to avoid catabolism, while intense enough to burn calories and train the cardiovascular system.
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you are kidding me right? walking/distance running (not full speed but more of a jog) is the best for burning fat. Dude you gotta have a link from a credible source because basically what you said is blapsHydromaxey (spelling?) to the body building world. Running hard for a long duration might due that but the type of conditioning i am talking about is the best to BURN FAT not necessiarly lose weight. big difference
 
im2manly said:
you are kidding me right? walking/distance running (not full speed but more of a jog) is the best for burning fat. Dude you gotta have a link from a credible source because basically what you said is blapsHydromaxey (spelling?) to the body building world. Running hard for a long duration might due that but the type of conditioning i am talking about is the best to BURN FAT not necessiarly lose weight. big difference
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I think he meant that LONG distant running would be negitive, like 15 miles a day. Not a 30min jog or brisk walk. When was the last time you saw a marathon runner or a trialthlete with a solid musclar body? Sprinters are very lean and musclar, anywhere up to a guy who competes in the 800 meter. Anything longer than the 800 meter the athletes look frail and weak, for the most part.
 
im2manly said:
you are kidding me right? walking/distance running (not full speed but more of a jog) is the best for burning fat. Dude you gotta have a link from a credible source because basically what you said is blapsHydromaxey (spelling?) to the body building world. Running hard for a long duration might due that but the type of conditioning i am talking about is the best to BURN FAT not necessiarly lose weight. big difference
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You've got it backwards. High-intensity is much more efficient for fat-burning. Read this article:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=178E42F99D5DA0DB77431095018E7C67.hydra?id=461325

From the article:

Shugart: Good point. I'm going to throw out some very general questions now and let you guys duke it out. Here we go. What's better for the average guy wanting to be lean and muscular? HIIT (high intensity interval training) or long bouts of jogging at one pace (low-intensity)?

Staley: Clearly the former. There's really no debate on that. And you don't need a university degree or advanced physiology textbooks to understand why this is so: when you expose your body to repeated long-duration excursions, your body wants to weigh less in order to become more efficient at doing what you're asking it to do. And the easiest way for your body to weigh less is to catabolize muscle (which of course, weighs more than fat).

Shugart: What do you think, Coach Snippy?

Alessi: If they're a qualified HIIT trainee, that is, under the age of 35, without a pre-existing heart condition or family history and have at least six months prior training experience, then it becomes a simple energy game (calories in, calories out). For that, HIIT burns more calories in less time.

Shugart: HIIT or jogging, Thib?

Thibaudeau: Well, the only thing you have to do is compare the physique of a sprinter to that of a marathoner. Which one is leaner and more muscular? The sprinter of course! In fact, sprinters, as a group, have a better body than 95% of all the people spending hour after hour in the gym. This is all the more impressive considering that most sprinters will strength train three, maybe four times per week using only basic movements such as the bench press, squat, the Olympic lifts and hamstring work.

Of course, one could argue that the top sprinters are genetically gifted for leanness, strength and muscle. However, put the same guys on a hefty regimen of long distance running and chances are the quality of their physiques will vastly decrease.

This is not to say that low-intensity aerobic work is to be avoided. However, it shouldn't be abused. Let's face it, as T-men we like to shout high and loud that aerobic work isn't manly. But the fact is that aerobic work does offer several benefits, including the shift toward a better lipid profile, a lowered risk of cardiovascular diseases and hypertension, as well as fat loss. So aerobic work isn't the Devil; however, it's not the fastest route towards a muscular and lean physique.

In my opinion, long sprints, 200-400m (even 800m) with short rest intervals are best when it comes to losing fat while minimizing the potential for muscle loss. Most people wanting a great physique should engage in this type of activity. Furthermore, a recent study concluded that 400m running actually involves the aerobic energy system and lead to improvement in max VO2 similar to long, slow-pace aerobic work.

That being said, slow-pace aerobic work isn't to be discounted as it offers several health benefits. I know that health is always something that bores the athletes to no end, but good health is important: you can't improve if you're in the hospital can you?
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Later:

Now, another thing that sickens me is when people talk about walking to promote fat loss. How many times have I seen some out of shape guy (or gal) walk twenty minutes on the treadmill expecting to lose fat like crazy? Did you know that washing your car, dusting your furniture and playing pool has approximately the same caloric expenditure as walking (about four calories per minute)? Housework will burn more fat than walking! Try this one when your wife complains about doing all the work around the house!

In physical training, like with most things in life, what you get out of it is proportional to what you put in. If your heart rate increases a lot, is maintained at a high level for a relatively long time, and you use a lot of energy, you'll get some fat loss, conditioning and health benefits. In that regard, intense weight training with short rest intervals can actually have a better effect than walking and even jogging. Strength training alone will not give you the same cardiovascular effect as intense cardio or energy system work. It won't get you ready to run the Boston marathon, but it will give you significant health and fat loss benefits.

Now, not all strength training exercises will lead to same energy expenditure. For example, a one-arm concentration curl won't make you use as much energy as a power clean, push press, squat, or deadlift! Basically, the more muscles involved in an exercise, the more energy will be used: the bigger the engine, the more fuel you use!
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Part 2:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=178E42F99D5DA0DB77431095018E7C67.hydra?id=461524

Thibaudeau: Best form of cardio? An evening with Trish Stratus after a triple dose of Tribex! Seriously though, the best form of energy system work is the one you'll actually do! I could say that 400m sprinting with very short rest intervals is the best way to shed the fat. However, how many people will actually have the guts to stick with 400m sprints? Not many! It’s just about the hardest thing you can do as far as physical training is concerned (a close second is sets of twenty reps on the squat or deadlift). So even if it’s great, if you don’t stick with it, it won’t work.
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Shugart: Okay, a person is trying to lose fat. Should he do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach?

....

Staley: Hmmm, I'm starving, half-asleep, my joints feel like they have sand in them....um, no, not a good time for cardio!

Look, seriously, when you do it is secondary to doing it in the first place, right? Also, isn't that idea predicated on the theory that if your glycogen supplies are low from an overnight fast that your body is more likely to go after stored bodyfat for fuel? Well, the only way your glycogen will be low enough to accomplish that would be if you're low or no carbing. And if you're low or no carbing, then your glycogen is always
low, and you can do your cardio later in the day when you feel at least half alive!

My good friend Alwyn Cosgrove has a great argument for why morning cardio on an empty stomach is a faulty idea: everyone always extols the value of eating every three hours to prevent catabolism; so if this is true, why would you do hard exercise after an eight hour fast? I mean, it's either one way or the other, right?

Dr. Lowery: Truthfully, I do cardio in the morning. A thinner, ectomorphic guy looking to harden up shouldn't though. He'd be better served by time under the weights while drinking protein and carbs throughout. I tend to favor fasted treadmill work because I've seen firsthand how much more dramatic fat oxidation can be in this state during lab experiences.

The liver is mostly depleted of stored carbohydrate (glycogen reserves approximate just 90g which keeps us alive at night), there's a natural diurnal release of GH upon rising, and even cortisol is higher upon waking. This latter fact is dangerous for muscle loss but actually facilitates lipolysis (fat breakdown). Admittedly, I've been experimenting with about five grams of glutamine and even about ten grams of protein in this otherwise "fasted" pre-breakfast state. I do fear cortisol and hope to counteract any unnecessary catabolism without interfering with lipolysis.
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Note: doing morning cardio after having some protein powder and coffee (for energy) has become pretty popular at T-Nation since this was published 2.5 years ago. Dr. Lowery recommends it very highly and a lot of people swear by it.

I'd say that high-intensity cardio is pretty well supported by experts, whether bulking or cutting.
 
dude experts on T-nation maybe. the fact is that your heart rate needs to be in a certain zone to burn fat, sprints attack glycogen first because they need a QUICK ENERGY SOURCE a jog on the other hand reserves glycogen for a type of back up fuel, thus more directly hitting the fat cells. and dude there talking about buring 4 cals a min, jesus thats like 1mph. From my experience what has helped me shed 40lbs has been jogging at a comfortable pace, with intervals of sprints (because for a short period of time you can draw on glycogen and fat at the same time, but once ur heart rate reaches a certain level it attacks the glycogen because it thinks its sprinting and wants a quick energy source) now ur in college right? so am i, take a nutrition or human physiology class and ull see which is better for burning fat
 
im2manly said:
dude experts on T-nation maybe. the fact is that your heart rate needs to be in a certain zone to burn fat, sprints attack glycogen first because they need a QUICK ENERGY SOURCE a jog on the other hand reserves glycogen for a type of back up fuel, thus more directly hitting the fat cells. and dude there talking about buring 4 cals a min, jesus thats like 1mph. From my experience what has helped me shed 40lbs has been jogging at a comfortable pace, with intervals of sprints (because for a short period of time you can draw on glycogen and fat at the same time, but once ur heart rate reaches a certain level it attacks the glycogen because it thinks its sprinting and wants a quick energy source) now ur in college right? so am i, take a nutrition or human physiology class and ull see which is better for burning fat
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So...Christian Thibaudeau, Dr. Lonnie Lowery, Charles Staley, and Don Alessi don't know what they're talking about because they're "experts on T-Nation?" Some of the most recognized names in strength training don't know what they're talking about? Why do so many people have it in for T-Nation? I mean, they offer some of the best training information on the net for free, so what about it makes people's panties wad up? Some of the most recognized and successful experts in the business (Chad Waterbury, Charles Staley, Christian Thibaudeau, Joe DeFranco, Dan John, Charles Poliquin, Dave Tate just to name a few) write for T-Nation. What makes it such a bad thing?

And why would they purposely give bad information on cardio? What would they have to gain by that? Your post just doesn't make any sense. Please explain the anti-T-Nationism.

Anyway, if you insist on links from other sites, I can accomodate you. This is just what popped up after a quick Google search. Not all relate to fat loss, some relate to increased athletic performance. Notice how several of them open with something like this: "HIIT is well-known to be superior for fat burning."

http://www.musclemedia.com/training/hiit.asp
http://davedraper.com/hiit-cardio-training.html
http://www.youronlinefitness.com/Fi...articles/hiit_and_other_interval_training.htm
http://www.exrx.net/FatLoss/HIITvsET.html
http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/HIIT.html
http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=165
http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0101/cf.htm
 
i want to see a impartial study, because these sites are recommending HIIT and then tell u its better for fat burning because its proves themselves right. tell you what I am going to try HIIT in my routine, do you have a link for how i can get started properly
 
Those links I just provided have all the info you need to get started.

I'm wondering, what possible reason would they have for saying HIIT is better? It isn't like they're selling you anything. If they felt the need to be right, wouldn't they just promote which one was right?

A few of those articles mention studies. Look them up. The Tabata study is particularly interesting.
 
I think I will give HIIT a shot as well. It's about time for a change anyway.

You had me at squating twice your body weigth in 3-months.
 
HIIT, which is a relative term to begin with as sprinting is individualized based off of the individuals conditioning. Sprint training is the best and most EFFICIENT way to drop body fat, increase VO2 max, and imrpove lipid profiles accordingly. Best meaning that it accomplishes all three of these directives in a 15-20 minute session, unlike the 30-45 minute marathons most people utilize. The issue is for people wanting to drop BF preserve lean mass and improve cardiovascular conditioning intense sessions are the best option.

After a certain point glycogen stores have been tapped and the oxygen depletion becomes significant enough to where the action becomes an aerobic activity, because the system then becomes less dependent on muscle glycogen and more dependent on stored energy for continued efforts. This is what makes sprint training better than distance or what most people would call "cardio" sessions as it trains both energy systems very efficiently. I hope this adds to the discussion here as I have used a two day sprint training approach, along with a 15-20 minute "cardio" session and have seen tremendous imrpovements in conditioning and fat loss percentage. The "cardio" day is to facilitate recovery mainly, and it also keeps the trainee from overtraining and overreaching. That's a very solid method if you choose to use it, but I would hardly ever reccomend a long duration session as the primary method of energy system work, unless on an extremely extremely low caloric intake, and then it's risky because of possible lean mass loss.
 
hey 9c9 , i think i am going to try this. I think the main reason that i am/was so perisistent that long distance was better was because of classes, what every one has told me, and personal success with it. anyway, I will try HIIT in place of my regular cardio. What would u suggest as a routine? just a quick layout i really havent had time to read all the links becuase of classes and projects. thanks
 
im2manly said:
hey 9c9 , i think i am going to try this. I think the main reason that i am/was so perisistent that long distance was better was because of classes, what every one has told me, and personal success with it. anyway, I will try HIIT in place of my regular cardio. What would u suggest as a routine? just a quick layout i really havent had time to read all the links becuase of classes and projects. thanks
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I think that both methods have merit, as millionman pointed out. Doing sprints 4 times a week could easily lead to overtraining if your conditioning isn't up to the task. The main selling point for me with HIIT is that the sessions are shorter (due to higher intensity) and therefore you're less likely to go into catabolism.

This is from http://www.youronlinefitness.com/Fi...articles/hiit_and_other_interval_training.htm

A good intermediate interval training program could consist of a jog-run program. You can warm-up with a five minute jog and then run for 1 minute, and then back to jogging for 1 minute, and repeat for as many times as you can. When you run, you don't need to sprint, but a good run is what you are looking for. If you want to add more intensity you can do a 30/30 split of a 30 second jog and a 30 second run. Or a 30 second jog and a 1 minute run.
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to 9cyclops9 again.

thanks bro for the quick response, i just talked to a personal trainer (student) he said he started at 11% body fat and after HIIT he was down to 5% that was my selling point because the lower ur body fat the harder it is to lose body fat. that and im tired of jogging 70 minutes a day. I really do hope this works i think im gonna go wit the 30/30 approarch for 30 mins on a elipitical machine
 
jesus christ 9c9 you coulda told me it was gonna be so dam hard lol....lol i come here saying im gonna do 30 second jog 30 second sprint for 30 mins and i end up barely getting past 10 mins...but ill tell you what in those 10 mins the elipitical machine said i burned 370 cals (when i usually do it my way i burn about 250 in 10 mins) and i was sweating my ass off. I think for now on im going to do 40 mins regular running (like i used) in morning on a empty stomach and ill try lol to do 15 mins HIIT after working out....I gotta say bro, i think you might be right here.
 
crazyed27 said:
I think he meant that LONG distant running would be negitive, like 15 miles a day. Not a 30min jog or brisk walk. When was the last time you saw a marathon runner or a trialthlete with a solid musclar body? Sprinters are very lean and musclar, anywhere up to a guy who competes in the 800 meter. Anything longer than the 800 meter the athletes look frail and weak, for the most part.
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Thats exactly it the proof is right there.. I've never seen a sprinter that wasn't ripped to shreds. Then again marathon runners are ripped, but they just look like skeletons hehe
 
im2manly said:
jesus christ 9c9 you coulda told me it was gonna be so dam hard lol....lol i come here saying im gonna do 30 second jog 30 second sprint for 30 mins and i end up barely getting past 10 mins...but ill tell you what in those 10 mins the elipitical machine said i burned 370 cals (when i usually do it my way i burn about 250 in 10 mins) and i was sweating my ass off. I think for now on im going to do 40 mins regular running (like i used) in morning on a empty stomach and ill try lol to do 15 mins HIIT after working out....I gotta say bro, i think you might be right here.
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lol

When I saw you were going to try it for half an hour I though...holy crap, this guy's insane. :D

Glad you liked it. Try going for one minute and one minute, it's a bit easier. Not much though.
 
i guess i owe quijjiboo an apology too, LOOKS like u guys are right
 
im2manly said:
jesus christ 9c9 you coulda told me it was gonna be so dam hard lol....lol i come here saying im gonna do 30 second jog 30 second sprint for 30 mins and i end up barely getting past 10 mins...but ill tell you what in those 10 mins the elipitical machine said i burned 370 cals (when i usually do it my way i burn about 250 in 10 mins) and i was sweating my ass off. I think for now on im going to do 40 mins regular running (like i used) in morning on a empty stomach and ill try lol to do 15 mins HIIT after working out....I gotta say bro, i think you might be right here.
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Wind sprints are insane, you found out the hard way that they are not to be taken lightly! IMO they might be the best overall lower body and cardio workout that there is hands down! Though it is a bitch to get yourself motovatied to do these solo. That is why I play handball, because if I want to win the match I'm forced to do wind sprints, and my glutes and legs have grown due to this. Plus my body fat has gone down, my endurence has gone up, all and all I'm in better shape than if I just lifted and jogged no question about it.
 
quijjiboo said:
Thats exactly it the proof is right there.. I've never seen a sprinter that wasn't ripped to shreds. Then again marathon runners are ripped, but they just look like skeletons hehe
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So true!
 
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