George W. Bush Is Our President!!!

[kausion_420]

Call me a leftist or conspiracy theorist but when you have two rival candidates who belong to the same secret society that seem a little strange to me. It goes back to what I have said in previous posts about how whether Democrat or Republican, they are both following the same orders.

Bush and Kerry both admitted on national television to being part of the Skull and Bones. Those of you not knowing what that is, it's a secret society that at their time of initiation only took in 15 new members a year. This means that only 800 members would be living at any given time. It is also a requirement that the members belong to the elitest bloodlines which would infact make them distant cousins.

If you research you will find out that the Skull and Bones is a more indepth branch from Freemasonry and that Freemasonry is a branch under the Illuminati. It has been stated many times that there are 13 families belonging to the Illuminati that control the world banks and the production of money. They are spread out over the world. Those who are not part of the original 13 family bloodline but still have elitest blood are operating under high degrees of masonry. Those in high degrees of masonry that have royalty in their bloodlines are members to Skull and Bones. Read about the religions to these societies and you will see both men are in belief to the same ideoligies.

For two men that most say are very different because of their political beliefs, notice how they answer the same question in the same manner.

Bush

Kerry

 

[penguinsfan]

Kausion, on this matter, you're way more right than left. Alex would consider himself far right.

 

[penguinsfan]

Yep, I wasn't really surprised, angry or anything when the U.S invaded Afghanistan. After all, it's not like they had a real government or any social structures that would have suffered from the invasion, and even if they had, the retaliation was needed and justified. That's where the main concentration of Al Qaeda forces was at the time, so the attack was a perfectly understandable course of action for the U.S. I guess at that point it wasn't known how widespread and pocketed the whole terrorist network was, since it seems that Al Qaeda is still very much active. I do hope to see the day when it is rooted out and destroyed for good, but I'm also being realistic in that it may never happen unless the U.S changes it's current foreign policy drastically.
My fingers are crossed for Bush to be more cooperative with Europe and the rest of the world in his second term. I think it will take the combined efforts of all the nations of the west to fight terrorism effectively, and most importantly, fight the very reasons why terrorism exists in the first place.

Shafty, I'm curious and interested to get the perspective of someone like yourself. What changes should the U.S. make to it foreign policy? Please elaborate on the things you previously said when you get a chance.

 

[kausion_420]

Kausion, on this matter, you're way more right than left. Alex would consider himself far right.

Im just used to being called a Liberal or Theorist for what I bring forward. It just seems to be the norm that when someone questions their government they are labeled a Liberal or Conspiracy Theorist.

 

[Shithead]

theres a free masonary club down the street from where i live. its not a secret that it exists, and if you look up free masonary on the web you'll see its not really all the conspiricy claims it to be.

 

[kausion_420]

There are masonic temples in all cities. Look up masonic symbols or masonry on the web. Learn what the symbols mean and the history behind masonry dating back to the days of the Knights Templar.

There are two sides to freemasonry. There is the side where anyone can join which is probably to club you are talking about. Once you make your way into the higher side of it (30 degrees and up) you will learn the truth to the rituals. Also you will notice once you get into the higher parts that there are no longer coloured masons or homosexual masons.

 

[Shithead]

There are masonic temples in all cities. Look up masonic symbols or masonry on the web. Learn what the symbols mean and the history behind masonry dating back to the days of the Knights Templar.

There are two sides to freemasonry. There is the side where anyone can join which is probably to club you are talking about. Once you make your way into the higher side of it (30 degrees and up) you will learn the truth to the rituals. Also you will notice once you get into the higher parts that there are no longer coloured masons or homosexual masons.

im not doubting your information, but things like this tend to get carried away, just tread with caution

 

[Mr Bungle]

bush sucks
he can't play a cowbell for shit !!
I should be president
Americans deserve MORE COWBELL !!!!!!
(applause)

 

[REDZULU2003]

As a Brit I feel sad that we have Bush BACK, IMHO hes unstable.
Also as a Brit, I worry as our PMs ALWAYS seem to lick the USAs arsehole, this NEEDS TO STOP and the Brits need to let the yanks invade and do things on their own, and hence face the shit themselves, we have been dragged through enough....this Iraq war IMHO is the LAST STRAW, In the UK they are ALL very against it now and wont entertain another war with the yanks like this.
As for terrorism hitting everyone, yeah EXACTLY tell me something I dont know.
As a cop I already know all this, it will hit alot of countries but I feel they are alot higher risk if they help the USA, its the USA that the terrorists hate the most and I have been told by Arab freinds that when they go back to their nation the mood is fine with the Brits but they HATE the Yanks.
The UK is more a risk now hanging about with the US in Iraq than it would be if it were doing what France did......we must STOP doing what the USA wants and start looking after ourselves more, fuck whats going on in other countries, i.e if the leader is executing his people and torturing them....it aint ANYTHING to do with us

 

[Texan]

As a Brit I feel sad that we have Bush BACK, IMHO hes unstable.
Also as a Brit, I worry as our PMs ALWAYS seem to lick the USAs arsehole, this NEEDS TO STOP and the Brits need to let the yanks invade and do things on their own, and hence face the shit themselves, we have been dragged through enough....this Iraq war IMHO is the LAST STRAW, In the UK they are ALL very against it now and wont entertain another war with the yanks like this.
As for terrorism hitting everyone, yeah EXACTLY tell me something I dont know.
As a cop I already know all this, it will hit alot of countries but I feel they are alot higher risk if they help the USA, its the USA that the terrorists hate the most and I have been told by Arab freinds that when they go back to their nation the mood is fine with the Brits but they HATE the Yanks.
The UK is more a risk now hanging about with the US in Iraq than it would be if it were doing what France did......we must STOP doing what the USA wants and start looking after ourselves more, fuck whats going on in other countries, i.e if the leader is executing his people and torturing them....it aint ANYTHING to do with us

Red, with tremendous respect for you, I respect your opinion, but the terrorist want allies to abandon each other out of fear of terrorist attacks. Bush was doing what was in the best interest of the citizens of the US. The Brits have long been our allies, and for that I have tremendous respect. I guarantee if the situation was reversed, the US would be there with y'all. If you don't agree with the war in Iraq, then you have every right to feel that way, I just hate to hear that the reason you feel that way is out of fear of terrorists. You have never struck me as the type of person to let fear or intimidation keep you from standing with your friends. Again, I don't mean offend to you.

 

[REDZULU2003]

You dont offend me, nor do I fear terrorists.
On a regler basis have to carryout checks of that nature with my line of work.
Mate, what I meant was...its gotten to a stage now where the UK people DO NOT want to be DRAGGED into trouble with the USA....simple as that.
I feel the US has caused some of this terrorism, well EDIT the US Gouvernment has caused some over the years with its stupid fuckin decisions and acts it thought was right yet went wrong.
You cant fight terrorism, I dont care what anyone says the only way to KILL terrorism is to actually NUKE the country, i.e Iraq but thats outta the question for obvious reasons.
I PRAY TO GOD, that the next leader of the UK will not do what the US wants all the fuckin time, fuck the US what it wants is irrelavant to me, what is rellavant is MY NATIONS safety.....right here, not in Iraq.....okay the BS [MHO] About the weapons of mass destruction could have been fired here...but thats a huge IF.
The UK should concentrate on looking after the homeland, and stop going off into war after war after war with the United States of America.....its getting fuckin annoying now, I will ALWAYS support the people who fight for my country but I feel we are fighting mainly for ONE MANs needs here....Mr Bush.....and somehow the UK got dragged into it, got its name covered in mud and hence has itself more at risk than before, this isnt being scared or cowardly...its being clever and useing tactics.....its foolish what we are doing now in Iraq, the war on terrorism will never end....if it does it'll take MANY MANY years to end, Bush cant win like this....its feeding more Arab and world hatred for him and the USA plus the silly bastards aka UK that help the USA.
The UK also helps the USA anyways, the US has bases here in the UK and sattelites here that monitor alsorts of shit in Europe such as Russia and also have bases like the one in Machrihanish plus others where the Big Secret spy planes can take off and goto the Gulf....the UK is a massive ally, but we need to stop going into the wars like we do cos I feel its not doing us anygood here....the US is big enough and has enough power, so it can and could manage.

American members here, dont be offended by my comments....I do not hate or dislike any of you, its MY OPINION of the whole situation....we MUST fight in Iraq cos we helped start it so lets end it, or TRY TO....but I dont belive we should keep helping the USA in its wars against so called terrorism....get another poodle I guess is the answer to the White House....how about Spain? lots of Spanish in the US.

 

[badbal]

What I don't like is that if the U.S asks a country to aid in their (Coalition), and they cant, all sorts of shit goes down.

I run a company(in Canada) that does work for plants that use slurry to transport materials. After Canada could not enter IRAQ for obvious reasons (the minuscule Canadian military is currently in 5 countries providing security and peacekeeping missions, not to mention Afghanistan on top of that)...no reserves left.

I lost business with three big clients, two in Texas and one in California (happened in 2003). Quite simply put, they took the fact that my government couldn't help out in the "War In Iraq" as an insult and decided upon themselves to sever all business ties with Canada as retribution. this decision cost our company $250,000 to relocate our staff and offices from their sites.

(Aftermath) Because we are the only company in the world that provides software to simulate plant slurry operations, I ended up getting these clients calling me back for our services because of problems in their existing pipelines (Thats why they were using us in the first place). I don't like to be one to hold grudges but I told them to take a hike. We have more than enough business here in Canada and in other countries...they thought their pie was so sweet that I would have to come crawling back (BAH!).

I could go on and on about the bullshit, but IMHO Americans take themselves way to serious, they have a big stick i will admit it, but they don't have to use it at every corner. It brings resentment not only from a political perspective but a business one as well. Americans aren't making any friends by bullying.

I love America and "most" of its people. But its time to smarten up, your not the only people living on this planet, make friends while you can before you find yourselves in a reduced place one day looking for our help.

P.S: This is only directed at Americas politicians and corporate power holders. Whether you like it or not they are ambassador's for your country in many respects.

 

[copper_handshak]

Al the U.S.A has done is help the world. Every fuckin time some other country suffers a disaster or needs some kind of assistance the U.S.A lends a giant hand.

Yet you Europeans/Canadians blame all your problems on us. Im sick of it. You know what? Your countries do suck. Your are losers. You have few freedoms. Your weak and lazy and full of yourselves. Your forget have to live as free men long ago. You are all nothing more than serfs. Slaves.

You have bloody histories, thousands of years of brutality against your fellow men.
America changed that. We created a place where men are free. We determine our on destiny. You Europeans gave that up long ago. You dont have the will to get it back. Wouldnt know what to do with it if you did. Probably slaughter each other and set up a bunch of pathetic little kingdoms, ruled over by inbred freaks.

p.s. Canada, suck my big fat white American dick. Your a weak sister Canada.

 

[REDZULU2003]

What I don't like is that if the U.S asks a country to aid in their (Coalition), and they cant, all sorts of shit goes down.

I run a company(in Canada) that does work for plants that use slurry to transport materials. After Canada could not enter IRAQ for obvious reasons (the minuscule Canadian military is currently in 5 countries providing security and peacekeeping missions, not to mention Afghanistan on top of that)...no reserves left.

I lost business with three big clients, two in Texas and one in California (happened in 2003). Quite simply put, they took the fact that my government couldn't help out in the "War In Iraq" as an insult and decided upon themselves to sever all business ties with Canada as retribution. this decision cost our company $250,000 to relocate our staff and offices from their sites.

(Aftermath) Because we are the only company in the world that provides software to simulate plant slurry operations, I ended up getting these clients calling me back for our services because of problems in their existing pipelines (Thats why they were using us in the first place). I don't like to be one to hold grudges but I told them to take a hike. We have more than enough business here in Canada and in other countries...they thought their pie was so sweet that I would have to come crawling back (BAH!).

I could go on and on about the bullshit, but IMHO Americans take themselves way to serious, they have a big stick i will admit it, but they don't have to use it at every corner. It brings resentment not only from a political perspective but a business one as well. Americans aren't making any friends by bullying.

I love America and "most" of its people. But its time to smarten up, your not the only people living on this planet, make friends while you can before you find yourselves in a reduced place one day looking for our help.

P.S: This is only directed at Americas politicians and corporate power holders. Whether you like it or not they are ambassador's for your country in many respects.

Very well said.

they took the fact that my government couldn't help out in the "War In Iraq" as an insult and decided upon themselves to sever all business ties with Canada as retribution

The above is VERY VERY TRUE, and is WHY no British PM has dared say no to the US when it wants help in war....I'm sure it was Blair and Clinton who had a quick ruffle of feathers over British military going to US hot spots...cant find quotes ect, I said so in my last post but I'm convinced I hearf this.
The US president at the time [Sure it was Clinton] said along the lines what I've just quoted you of now...if the Brits didnt help than the US would sever Buisness ties with us, so we ended up helping.
I also remember hearing similer things being said before this Iraq war, that Blair was INFACT 50/50 at onepoint about it all, until the so called proof of WOMD came in, than he said yeah..but before that all the MPs in his parliament were saying no to the US, and Bush actually also didnt like that and the press even said it could mean Buisness lossess between the UK and USA.

 

[REDZULU2003]

Al the U.S.A has done is help the world. Every fuckin time some other country suffers a disaster or needs some kind of assistance the U.S.A lends a giant hand.

Yet you Europeans/Canadians blame all your problems on us. Im sick of it. You know what? Your countries do suck. Your are losers. You have few freedoms. Your weak and lazy and full of yourselves. Your forget have to live as free men long ago. You are all nothing more than serfs. Slaves.

You have bloody histories, thousands of years of brutality against your fellow men.
America changed that. We created a place where men are free. We determine our on destiny. You Europeans gave that up long ago. You dont have the will to get it back. Wouldnt know what to do with it if you did. Probably slaughter each other and set up a bunch of pathetic little kingdoms, ruled over by inbred freaks.

p.s. Canada, suck my big fat white American dick. Your a weak sister Canada.

This is abit rash, the part about Canada being a WEAK sister to the US lol they aint weak bro.
I feel your takeing these comments the wrong way, read through them again....also the US does not offer a giant helping hand, but an interfering one...they [the US gouvernment NOT people] should have learned from Somalia, that they shouldnt get involved in others wars and also FINISH wars before starting others. Its the USA that has infact caused alot of trouble throughout the world in the 20th century, why else do you think they are hated so much? It isnt right the USA being hated, I dont hate them...its a shame the actions of a few reflect the whole nation, which is infact a very niceone.

 

[kausion_420]

Al the U.S.A has done is help the world. Every fuckin time some other country suffers a disaster or needs some kind of assistance the U.S.A lends a giant hand.

Yet you Europeans/Canadians blame all your problems on us. Im sick of it. You know what? Your countries do suck. Your are losers. You have few freedoms. Your weak and lazy and full of yourselves. Your forget have to live as free men long ago. You are all nothing more than serfs. Slaves.

You have bloody histories, thousands of years of brutality against your fellow men.
America changed that. We created a place where men are free. We determine our on destiny. You Europeans gave that up long ago. You dont have the will to get it back. Wouldnt know what to do with it if you did. Probably slaughter each other and set up a bunch of pathetic little kingdoms, ruled over by inbred freaks.

p.s. Canada, suck my big fat white American dick. Your a weak sister Canada.

Im not gonna even bother coming up with a rebutle to this one. You let your personal feelings overcome you and thats when things get ignorrant. A good debate never involves personal feelings.

As far as Canada not being free, we have more choice than Americans do. Your last election proves that. But I guess you would feel much more safe from the Terrorists if you had military and police combine to patrol your streets at night.

America does help many nations but they seem to go by one simple rule. Problem, Reaction Solution. You create the problem to offer your solution. If I remember correctly, wasn't it America that help put saddam in power. Who aided him and gave him the means to create biological warfare. Then all of a sudden prior to 9/11 Saddam decides he would be better off changing the oil currency over to the Euro which would change the federal reserve and have the Euro as the worlds currency. Of course the US couldn't let this happen so Iraq was invaded. Its also interesting how the military bases are strategically placed right along the oil pipe line in both Afganistan and Iraq.

Yours Truly,

The Weak Sister.

 

[kausion_420]

Yet you Europeans/Canadians blame all your problems on us. Im sick of it. You know what? Your countries do suck. Your are losers. You have few freedoms. Your weak and lazy and full of yourselves. Your forget have to live as free men long ago. You are all nothing more than serfs. Slaves.

You have bloody histories, thousands of years of brutality against your fellow men.
America changed that. We created a place where men are free. We determine our on destiny. You Europeans gave that up long ago. You dont have the will to get it back. Wouldnt know what to do with it if you did. Probably slaughter each other and set up a bunch of pathetic little kingdoms, ruled over by inbred freaks.

lol

Are you serious??

Bloody histories brutality against our fellow man???

lol

What about your civil war.

Slaves?? You created a place where we could be free...

The slaves fled to CANADA to be free from the AMERICANS...

Stereotypically its the Americans who are full of themselves we Canadians are nice and say things like "Eh" .

The only inbreds I can think of are hillbillies. We don't have those up here in Canada its far too cold .

Day by day your civil liberties are getting taken away your constitution being whiped on the assess of your leaders. Heck your leaders are so arrogant they have the nerve to pass these acts and have them available to read. They obviously know that noone is going to read them anyways.

Have you read through your patriot act??

 

[REDZULU2003]

Have you read through your patriot act??

lol obvious he aint.

 

[Texan]

Wow. First, I think it is wrong for Americans to hold it against Canada for not going with us. Some of this may have been carried over from frustrations with France (which are justified), but private citizens taking it out on other private citizens isn't cool to me. As for the Brits, as far as I'm concerned, we should count you among our few true allies, and if the support we get from you guys is out of fear of retalitory economic acts against you all, that is not cool either.

As for Canada being weak... Canada does get to take some measure of reassurance in knowing the US has their back if anything goes down. Canada can get away with spending MUCH less on national defense because of their relationship with the US. But that's the way of the world and I don't hold that against Canada. On the same token, it DOES bother me when Canada takes this benefit for granted and then criticizes our country and our leaders.

As for the stuff about about everyone else being slaves and not wanting freedom bad enough to get it and not knowing what to do with it if you had it... I can't really agree with all that. But we all have our opinions. Yes, we (the US) do have a bloody history, and there is an undeniable history of repression against certain groups, but these things are part of our history and contributed to making us the country that we are today.

It cannot be denied that we lend giant helping hands around the world. We have played world police for the UN for years now, and I, personally, hate this. It has gotten a LOT of our young men killed. Clinton's willingness to be a puppet for the UN is the reason I didn't join the military when I got out of high school in the early 1990s. Of course his willingness to do the UN's bidding is the reason foreign countries love him so much. He (in my opinion) put our soldiers in danger for the benefit of other nations.

The US, UK, and Canada need to stick together (I'm not arguing to the exclusion of other countries). In today's climate we all need each other, and we need to remember who our true enemies are.

 

[Texan]

Day by day your civil liberties are getting taken away your constitution being whiped on the assess of your leaders. Heck your leaders are so arrogant they have the nerve to pass these acts and have them available to read. They obviously know that noone is going to read them anyways.

Have you read through your patriot act??

Th USA PATRIOT Act is a disturbing piece of legislation, true. Some things to keep in mind with this law: This law has been repeatedly introduced in several forms throughout the last 15 years. Bush 41 tried to get some of this passed, Clinton tried to get a LOT of this stuff passed, too. Bush 43 did get it passed after 9/11. Keep in mind many President's liked this legislation because it helps the justice department (which answers to the AG who answers to the president), so don't just blame this on the current Bush administration. The only reason it got passed now is because the people let it pass.

If it were permanent, I would be much more concerned, but most all of the controversial sections have sunset provisions, which means they expire automatically. Secondly we have judicial review which has invalidated some patrs of the act, and will undoubtedly invalidate others. Personally, given the climate at the time it passed, I think it served a legit function. It has prevented more terrorist attacks against our nation, many of which the public has never heard about, because the mere fact that they were planned would create some measure of terror (which is the aim of these thugs). I know about some of these only through my exposure to the Justice Department through law school, and trust me, it's best that some things are not disclosed.

 

[Shafty]

Oh holy christ on a bicycle... I don't even know where to start on Copper's post. I almost felt like vomiting when I read it.

Copper, I sincerely hope what you said was just a spontaneous outburst of pent-up emotion instead of a reflection of how you truly feel about the rest of the western world.

 

[kausion_420]

Oh holy christ on a bicycle

lol

That's quite the saying. Never heard that one before.

I notice a trend with copper, he comes out of nowhere and makes a post that is obviously personal. So personal that the things he says come out ignorrant and hypocritical.

As a Canadian I find it confusing how a nation that spends the majority of its budget on defense can even have attacks against it. When I say defense I am talking about guns, tanks, intellegence anything that would protect a nation. I've seen a few of these "Terrorist Attacks" against the US and each time they happen the Gov't asks for more money for defense. Where is all this money going because if terrorists with box cutters can plan something that precise and actually make it happen, im wondering about the intellegence part of it. I also wonder about the de-classified document W199 (I think that is the one). Then I also wonder about the guy that brought it public and where he is now. Maybe its a coincidence a very very strange one I suppose.

 

[millionman]

I would like to interject a bit more about Mr. Clinton. His essential effort during office in regards to interior security was to attempt to pass gun control laws, which would make it easier for the government to control us. The whole point of this is not to say Canada or the brits, or whomever have it together. Honestly, if you look through European history you have things like the spanish inquisition, the frendh revolution....a little thing called WORLD WAR I and II. So for me it's not about look what the US has done, but a good bit of the animosity towards us goes back to the fact that we do effect a good bit of world economic policy and do act as the world's police, but you can't deny that when disasters happen or there are violent outbreaks where do these countries turn first, the richest and most able country in the world. Ohhh, I would like to add that because of the Clinton administration Osama Bin Laden was trained and given money to train others to find and kill other terrorists, the hatred comes from a situation that was poorly mishandled by the Clinton administration that angered Bin Laden to action, I don't have any specific details in regards to what occurred exactly but this is what I've come across in different forms.

 

[Shafty]

lol

That's quite the saying. Never heard that one before.

Ahhh.. I actually think I heard it from someone else on these forums. :blush: It just seemed to suit the occasion, since I couldn't find a better non-offensive way of expressing my outrage.

I notice a trend with copper, he comes out of nowhere and makes a post that is obviously personal. So personal that the things he says come out ignorrant and hypocritical.

As a Canadian I find it confusing how a nation that spends the majority of its budget on defense can even have attacks against it. When I say defense I am talking about guns, tanks, intellegence anything that would protect a nation. I've seen a few of these "Terrorist Attacks" against the US and each time they happen the Gov't asks for more money for defense. Where is all this money going because if terrorists with box cutters can plan something that precise and actually make it happen, im wondering about the intellegence part of it. I also wonder about the de-classified document W199 (I think that is the one). Then I also wonder about the guy that brought it public and where he is now. Maybe its a coincidence a very very strange one I suppose.

What struck me as particularily disturbing about his hate filled post was that the guy has been preaching love n' goodwill as well as calling out others for hating America (read: expressing their opinions) on this thread. Then all of a sudden he himself explodes in a violent outburst of rage directed at the rest of the western world for being so weak and "dependant" on the mighty U.S. It's like he had a momentary lapse of inhibition and an accidental "leak" happened. Well, if that is how you truly feel copper, then all I have to say to you is this: vedä itsesi hirteen punaniska. Sinun kaltaisesi sisäsiittoiset apinat edustavat Amerikkalaisen valkoisen roskaväen pohjasakkaa jotka pitäisi huuhtoa maapallon kollektiivisesta viemäristä alas. Juntti... saatanan sisäsiittoinen juntti. :s

Hey BDS... you reading this? You agree?

 

[kausion_420]

I would like to interject a bit more about Mr. Clinton. His essential effort during office in regards to interior security was to attempt to pass gun control laws, which would make it easier for the government to control us. The whole point of this is not to say Canada or the brits, or whomever have it together. Honestly, if you look through European history you have things like the spanish inquisition, the frendh revolution....a little thing called WORLD WAR I and II. So for me it's not about look what the US has done, but a good bit of the animosity towards us goes back to the fact that we do effect a good bit of world economic policy and do act as the world's police, but you can't deny that when disasters happen or there are violent outbreaks where do these countries turn first, the richest and most able country in the world. Ohhh, I would like to add that because of the Clinton administration Osama Bin Laden was trained and given money to train others to find and kill other terrorists, the hatred comes from a situation that was poorly mishandled by the Clinton administration that angered Bin Laden to action, I don't have any specific details in regards to what occurred exactly but this is what I've come across in different forms.

Um binladen was funded before Clinton came into power. Although while Clinton was in power, Foreign nations had binladen and knew he was a threat to the US. Clinton did not want to take this man in even though deep down he knew the man was a threat. Bush is no better in this situation and they are on both sides of the spectrum (Democrat and Republican.)

 

[copper_handshak]

I dont hate Europe and Cannada. But Europe, well really England has become so weak and feeble in her old age. Its very dissapointing. After reading Reds post...I guess I had enough. You know, all of my people come from England, Liverpool area. During the World Wars, number 2 especially, my family lost alot of sons. 9 members of my family died in that war. Many were stationed in England and flew on bombers.
I have learned to expect far left *reactionary, unimformed stuff* from shithead, shafty, a few others. Im not including Kausion becuase hes not a complete fool. I have had alot of buddies who think like him. I disagree with where he ends up on his search for truth, but I respect him.
But reading what Red had to say though, wow, what a let down. It really pissed me off.

I did like that pathetic little kingdoms ruled by inbred freaks line. Maybe Ill put that in my sig.

So, It is nice communicating with yall. I like it. Take it easy.

 

[BDS]

lol, shafty, I have never read anything that beautiful in Finnish before! And yeah, I agree.

 

[penguinsfan]

Im just used to being called a Liberal or Theorist for what I bring forward. It just seems to be the norm that when someone questions their government they are labeled a Liberal or Conspiracy Theorist.

Well, the labels all depend on what is relative to the norm. Here in the U.S., I am labeled a conservative, though I could easily put forth an argument that I am actually a liberal and that "liberalism" has been hijacked by Marxism, which is quite different. In former communist states, I suppose I would be a liberal, as a conservative would be one that argues for a return to the former way of doing things.

 

[Shafty]

I have learned to expect far left *reactionary, unimformed stuff* from shithead, shafty, a few others.

Bullshit. I have been very careful with the content of my posts. The same cannot be said for you, as you have finally showed your true colors. Besides, I don't side to the far left; I'd classify myself as a moderate liberal/democrat. I don't have beef with America as a nation, but I do dislike the current administration.

 

[copper_handshak]

The same cannot be said for you, as you have finally showed your true colors.

One mild outburst on my part compared to the many post of mine speaking of tolerance and understanding. Not to mention the vile and fantastic claims Ive read from some members here. The hate speak, name calling i.e. fool, idiot..etc. Give me a break pal. True colors huh, your just looking for a fight. Not gonna get one here. Hugs and kisses shafty. How do you say that in Finnish? Do tell sweetums rofl

 

[Shafty]

One mild outburst on my part compared to the many post of mine speaking of tolerance and understanding. Not to mention the vile and fantastic claims Ive read from some members here. The hate speak, name calling i.e. fool, idiot..etc. Give me a break pal. True colors huh, your just looking for a fight. Not gonna get one here. Hugs and kisses shafty. How do you say that in Finnish? Do tell sweetums rofl

Oh c'mon, YOU gimme a break here. Some "leftie" members may have resorted to name calling and fighting with you (i.e. Shithead), but I haven't, nor with anyone else. I don't want to get into any of that.

"Suukkoja ja haleja" = hugs and kisses. :yes:

 

[Shithead]

im not a "leftie".
the name calling had complete relevance, because your a fool copper.
if the "vile and fantastic claims" part was directed at me, then i challenge you to find even just 1 such claim by me, and show me it's vileness and fantasticness.
and if you pass away your ignorance copper you'll see that you are starting and pushing "fights" here.

 

[Shafty]

Well sorry about that, shithead. I shouldn't have used that term since I find it offensive in itself, but I was just trying to get a point across to copper.

I'm leaving this thread now, since I don't want to stir up any more shit or serve to deepen the already much too wide gap between the republican and democrat members. These kinds of threads only promote seperation and hatred, and I'm sick of being involved in that.

 

[Shithead]

i don't like constantly disagreeing with you, because i don't want to come of as just a shit stirrer. but i think topics such as politics should always be discussed, its the best way for people to gain awareness. im not sure its the same in america but where im from there are two taboo questions that are deemed rude to ask, one is asking someone their age, and the other is asking who they vote for. i think thats crap, politics should be always out in the open.

 

[kausion_420]

i don't like constantly disagreeing with you, because i don't want to come of as just a shit stirrer. but i think topics such as politics should always be discussed, its the best way for people to gain awareness. im not sure its the same in america but where im from there are two taboo questions that are deemed rude to ask, one is asking someone their age, and the other is asking who they vote for. i think thats crap, politics should be always out in the open.

I agree 100%.

The more people who say they do not care for politics (seems to be the majority), the more the governments will try to push. You can only push a person so far before they start pushing back. When the majority of the people are sleeping or just not concerned the government can push even farther.

It's important for everyone to know what is going on around them. Everything someone has to say I listen to because most of the time they will say something that I read or heard somewhere else no matter how bizarre. We all need to pay attention to things around us especially Americans because what happens to their country will effect us all.

Stay wise and listen to your instincts.

K_420

 

[Shafty]

i don't like constantly disagreeing with you, because i don't want to come of as just a shit stirrer. but i think topics such as politics should always be discussed, its the best way for people to gain awareness. im not sure its the same in america but where im from there are two taboo questions that are deemed rude to ask, one is asking someone their age, and the other is asking who they vote for. i think thats crap, politics should be always out in the open.

I agree: the best way to promote awareness and expand your own world view is to discuss these topics with people of opposing beliefs/outlooks. I just feel that on this particular forum the topic of politics is somewhat "touchy", and people can't seem to keep cool and stay within the bounds of civil behavior and courtesy. The last thing I would want would be the banning of any conversation pertaining to this subject, so the fact that people will get upset, angry and willing to place themselves and others into "opposing factions" is the lesser of two evils. I just hate to see the forums getting divided by this issue. I know I have alienated some people that were amicable to me in the past by expressing my feelings on the American government, and I must also confess that I have begun to quietly resent certain individuals whose opinions on this topic and the topic of religion have come off as arrogant, misinformed and just plain stupid. For this reason I think that ignorance would be bliss, and skipping on threads of this nature would ensure that I always enjoy coming back here and meeting the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MoS[/words] crowd.
I have enough "enemies" in real life, and I don't want to make any more on a friggin' internet message board. Call me a pacifist if you will, but that's how I feel.

 

[Bib]

It seems that everyone is against Bush because of one thing, Iraq. So I will address that one situation.

I cannot believe that so many people can be swayed by the freaking media to come up with completely insane points of view.

Take for instance Saddam: Does anyone remember his history? What kind of person he was? Instead, they take one point, no stockpiles of WMDs have been found TO DATE in Iraq, and make a decision that invading was wrong. What a crock.

'Stockpiles' is one MINOR point in the decision to go to war. Hell, stockpiles of weapons can easily be destroyed or moved. Big deal. What about the capability to make more, use them, destribute them?

Look at the facts: Saddam obviously had the desire for WMDs. He still had, in place at the time of invasion, all of the capability and resources to make more. Look at David Kay's report on WMDs. Nobody seems to catch the fact that Kay stated Saddam was MORE of a threat at the time of war, than when inspectors first went to Iraq. They just linger on his point that no WMDs were found. Don't worry, they could make more, as long as Saddam was in power, very quickly. Why is this obvious point never considered?

Now, what about intent? He had used them, not only on Iranians, but on his own people. Enough said. He has no conscience. It is easy to ascertain that he would use them on the US or any other country.

Why does everyone ignore Saddam's relationship to Al Quada? They talked. What about? Who cares? Just the fact that they had a definite relationship is a huge threat. The US is the first, greatest, stated enemy of Al Quada. Saddam had either the weapons, or the technology, to deliver to Al Quada, in order to do us harm. Bush, or any other leader, would be remise in not addressing this problem. Why would a sound leader wait until a situation became critical? Nip it in the bud.

Further, Saddam was giving $25,000 to each family of suicide bombers in Isreal. Come on folks! Wake up!

What about delivery? He had continued to work on delivery systems, violating many UN resolutions. In fact, HUNDREDS of violations of UN resolutions were found after invasion. But nobody reported these to any great extent. But the most serious delivery system would have come to light had his relationship with Al Quada been allowed to continue. Why were all of these terrorists found in Iraq after invasion? Why were so many Al Quada members there? Why did Al Zawahiri go to Iraq, and is still there creating havoc?

The Iraq situation causing more terrorists? Please remember, we were not in Iraq on 9/11. We were not in Afghanistan either. Since invasion, we have not had another attack on our homeland. Neither has the UK. The best defense IS a good offense.

No other nation may agree with how Bush handled things. Fine. But it can be argued that what he has done has worked very well. If indeed democracy can flourish in the middle east, in Iraq and Afghanistan, it will make a huge difference in how these people live and think. It will not be easy, but nobody ever thought it would. But it surely would not happen if the effort was not put forth.

BTW, there are many other reasons for going into Iraq. The greatest reason, IMO, is how Saddam treated his own people. How the oil for food program did not work, and they were sufffering. How he tortured and killed his own people.

For another post: The oil for food scandel. How France, Russia, China, Germany, et al, sold out the rest of the world to a horrible dictator because of one thing, money. Why has this not been all over the world's media? The US fighting for oil? Give me a break. Who was getting the oil before the war, and sold out for it?

One day, the truth shall win out.

Bigger

 

[REDZULU2003]

Well, I knew it would be a hard pill to swallow, but its very much what I feel at the moment, alongside many other Brits....this isnt weak, just because I dont agree with my nation going to war with the USA....How is that weak? rofl Its MY view, I dont expect all this BS about weak nations flying-up which is insane The UK has more allies in the world than the USA will ever have, Canada, Australia, New Zealand you name it...they all respect the Brits, cos we lead by example...not my emotion like the USA.
I'm not arsed what the USA does, hell they can NUKE Iraq..I dont give a rats ass, just aslong my nation hasnt anything to do with it, cos this whole war on terror was seeded IMHO A LONG LONG time ago, partly by the USA....they want to in essence rule the world.....it wont happen, people wont let that happen and the Arab world is now SADLY doing what its doing....I dont agree with it, but the US has caused some of this.
I'm just sick and tired with the UK getting dragged into the shit everytime.....we dont need the US to fight terrorism on our own soil....we will fight that ourselves, we have a TIGHT defence, and have already foiled many attacks already here so dont go thinking your big and mighty empire protects us cos it doesnt...we can protect ourselves and always have done, just in WW2 the US helped, but they had other motives, it wasnt all about We love the Brits.....plus you always make Hollywood Bullshit films rofl I wouldnt mind but MOST films made in Hollywood on old war tales are infact nuthing at all to do with the US...just the US wanting to be in the picture and centre of attention as always.
I also feel this Hollywood shit and Centre of attention craving has NEVER helped the US when getting itself across to the Arab world......put it thisway, I have been to Arabia and I have freinds from their, and alot do not like the USA but they dont mind the UK.....nearly all the hate is aimed at the USA, and the nations that got dragged into its shitty washing since the 9/11 incident....thats WHY Bush reacted, couldnt let the US look weak after such an attack, so they saw Suddam and invaded, made a new victory boost US Morale....pathetic, us Brits do not need that rofl hey some of you made this thread personnal by slagging off the nation of England, well you should say United Kingdom....so I have said abit myself in her defence.

 

[kausion_420]

When it comes to media, I don't listen to it. Im not saying I hate Bush because of Iraq. It was the American Gov't that helped him since 1979 anyways. Gave him the means to create biological warfare. Since WW2 the US has overthrown at least 50 different leaders. With the amount of enemies saddam has around him what is the point in invading when you could do like you have done in the past and overthrow him. Your gov't are experts at overthrowing people.

Those of you who want to know more about this war in Iraq and the one in Afganistan should read the Project for the New American Century Act or PNAC. Since it is De-Classified you should be able to find it through the internet. It is there for you to read. In a democracy the gov't can't withhold evidence like this but they also know that noone will ever read it. Those who do read it and say something about it will be labeled as crazy. In the document which was started in 1992 I believe but passed in 1999 gives information about them needing a war with Iraq. Also in the document it states that Bush has to be elected in 2000 by any means necessary. It also says other things but I encourage you to read it before calling me crazy.

K_420

 

[copper_handshak]

I will read that, sounds very interesting. But as far as overthrowing leaders, the people being oppressed and tortured by those leaders are happy to see them go.
They want someone to come in and force a change. Maybe it would be better if it was a world effort, actually it would definitly be better, but the U.N. does not seem very efficient or honorable. Geo-political affairs are incredibly complex.
Look at North Korea. Do you think the North Koreans are happy? They deserve a life of freedom. Established countries have a duty in my opinion to help them. Would you walk by someone bleeding to death on the sidewalk? I dont think you would. What if after you helped them someone else came along and said you only did it for personal gain? You know?
I will check that document out though. I appreciate the dialouge here and enjoy 'speaking' with all you guys. Your pretty awesome people

I thought Bib made some excellent points which I agree with entirely.

I agree with Red concerning Hollywood, I wish that place would drop of the face of the Earth to be honest. It can take Mtv with it.

Shafty, I like you since of humor. Youve got me interested in Finland. How are the women there?

 

[Shafty]

Well, they're blonde, for one thing. Nah seriously, we have variety, but the majority of the hot female populace is composed of these blonde bombshells. They are nice and well behaved...the kind of women you'd take home to mom (that is, until they get drunk... which is pretty much every weekend).

Hey, I'll trade you a couple hundred of your hot mixed-origin american babes for a couple hundred of our pure-blooded nordic blondes. rofl

 

[copper_handshak]

Everything Nordic kicks ass! My brother-n-laws family come from that region of the planet and not only are the women beautiful and blonde, their hair is almost white its so blonde, but the whole family is very smart and fun. Great people.

That would be a good trade. We have fantastic Black, Latino, Middle Eastern and Asian women running around lookin so good. I think I need a Harem

 

[C-Guy]

Well I am deeply saddened at the outcome of this election. Not because George Bush won or Because John Kerry lost. Neither of them will EVER know anything about the average American.

Bush and Kerry both come from wealthy families and will never know the feeling of sending your kids to bed hungry because there just simply isn't enough food to go around. There are local families here that feed little children canned cat food because that is ALL they can afford. Tell the parents to get a job you say.... Well most of these are single mothers who most likely will never have a better job than they now have. No new jobs are being created in this area. Neither Bush of Kerry give a damn about those people. They are not just here but all over America.

I for one think that when a party nominates a candidate for president he should be forced to spend a minimum of 6 months working a minimum wage job to see how more than half of Americans have to live. I guarantee he would get his head out of the clouds and do something about healthcare and the minimum wage.

I do not mean to sound so against the wealthy. I thank God for them. I however will probably never be wealthy. When I see my neighbor in need I'll give him my last dollar to help him out. Thats what the real America is all about. Not sticking your head in the sand or turning the other way.

The absolute best thing about Bush getting re-elected is the fact that in 4 years he is OUT! I sincerly hope that somehow in the next 4 years we can find a candidate that can do something to restore the ray of hope to the hopeless, find a way to create more jobs instead of so damn much politics that many businesses have to close because of the red tape they have to go thru. Give me a candidate that will make the rich pay their fare share, not constantly give them more loopholes so they can keep their money while innocent children suffer because mom and dad can't make enough to go around partly due to the taxes they have to pay.

Am i pissed ...YES. Am I a democrat?....No. Am I a republican?...Absolutely not. I am an American. I again say that I am deeply saddened by what I see. If we continue on this present course just look where we will be in another 10 years. Scary thought.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

There are local families here that feed little children canned cat food because that is ALL they can afford.QUOTE]

First of all, good post C-guy.....it made me think....

But at the same time.....I had a laugh at this one because canned cat food is pretty fuckin expensive.....I mean, they should be feeding the children the dry stuff.....
(I do not mean to sound cold in any way)

guess its all about where your from cuz
The poor round here are all about the microwave hotdogs

 

[C-Guy]

I was not offended at your remarks. However the cat food was cheap at a dented can market. Lots cheaper than regular food. Ironically that market has now closed. It was owned by a rather wealthy lady who decided to close it to pursue other interests.

I have no problem with the ones in this thread defending the war in Iraq. But if we are gonna do it .. then send enough troups to get the job done and get the hell out of there. There are other monsters in the world besides Sadaam... umm like poverty.

 

[Mr.Winkle]

Jesus, just tell these people to stop having so many kids if they can't afford to feed them.

 

[C-Guy]

Jesus, just tell these people to stop having so many kids if they can't afford to feed them.

Dude you ever heard of having a GOOD job and a kid or 2 and all of a sudden with no warning your job is sent over seas for cheaper labor leaving your ass out in the cold so to speak. As a matter of fact i started remodeling a building a couple of weeks ago that formerly employed 375 people. The business moved and the new owner will only use it for storage and will employee maybe 10 people. Those 375 people had NO say in the matter. They were just out of a job and out of luck. So what would YOU tell them?????

 

[badbal]

Off-shoring is a big problem.
How can my 30$/hr wage and Masters Degree compete with a PHD in India who's competitive salary is 4$/hr. Its like slave labor but not.
They can afford to live in their countries for 4$/hr but I sure as hell cant.

I have heard so many lies from companies trying to justify off-shoring. The bottom line... is the bottom line (financial) it saves them tonnes of money(annually) with just a little investment upfront. They claim it will somehow boost the economy and increase jobs. Does anyone else have a problem with this logic? Loss of jobs=More Jobs?? Loss of jobs=better economy??

Off-shoring has to stop, until there is a global economy where all fields are level.

(My 2 Cents)

 

[kausion_420]

Off-shoring has to stop, until there is a global economy where all fields are level.

(My 2 Cents)

You support global economy?

I take off-shoring to a one world government (New Age of Order) anyday. Once global economy is established you can also expect a cashless society which would put us all on short leashes.

 

[badbal]

How else could offshoring work, without eventually depleting your countries middle class and creating an even larger fiscal gap.