Anti-Circumcision Groups Discussion

>> Our debate has attracted people selling stuff. <<

I've been reading [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] for a year. Sorry I don't always have time to chime in.

I included my web site so you could fairly put my words in context, but if you didn't notice, I'm offering anyone who reads this thread something for FREE.

-Ron Low
TLCTugger@Juno.com

PS - free bumper/window stickers - white or baby blue background:
"A Foreskin is not a Birth Defect"
"Bring home your WHOLE baby. Say NO to circumcision"
"Circumcision? HIS body, HIS decision"
 
RonJLow said:
>> Our debate has attracted people selling stuff. <<

I've been reading [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] for a year. Sorry I don't always have time to chime in.

I included my web site so you could fairly put my words in context, but if you didn't notice, I'm offering anyone who reads this thread something for FREE.

-Ron Low
TLCTugger@Juno.com

PS - free bumper/window stickers - white or baby blue background:
"A Foreskin is not a Birth Defect"
"Bring home your WHOLE baby. Say NO to circumcision"
"Circumcision? HIS body, HIS decision"
Click to expand...
Lol this is sketchy as hell...and clearly not the place to be peddling this crap on us.
 
Now I see what they mean. You deny being disrespectful and insist that moderators figure out exactly where you've been disrespectful when they threaten your right to free speech.

Well, I'm telling you right here that to take an offer of something free in my sig and call it "peddling crap" is a lie and is disrespectful.

This thread is about people who advocate that circ is harmful. I'm one of those so I shared my opinion. The fact that I happen to make restoration and enlargement devices doesn't take away my right to free speech, does it?

-Ron
- - - - -
Skepdick wrote:

Lol this is sketchy as hell...and clearly not the place to be peddling this crap on us.
- - - - -
Originally Posted by RonJLow
>> Our debate has attracted people selling stuff. <<

I've been reading [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] for a year. Sorry I don't always have time to chime in.

I included my web site so you could fairly put my words in context, but if you didn't notice, I'm offering anyone who reads this thread something for FREE.

-Ron Low
TLCTugger@Juno.com

PS - free bumper/window stickers - white or baby blue background:
"A Foreskin is not a Birth Defect"
"Bring home your WHOLE baby. Say NO to circumcision"
"Circumcision? HIS body, HIS decision"
 
RonJLow said:
Now I see what they mean. You deny being disrespectful and insist that moderators figure out exactly where you've been disrespectful when they threaten your right to free speech.

Well, I'm telling you right here that to take an offer of something free in my sig and call it "peddling crap" is a lie and is disrespectful.

This thread is about people who advocate that circ is harmful. I'm one of those so I shared my opinion. The fact that I happen to make restoration and enlargement devices doesn't take away my right to free speech, does it?

-Ron
- - - - -
Skepdick wrote:

Lol this is sketchy as hell...and clearly not the place to be peddling this crap on us.
- - - - -
Originally Posted by RonJLow
>> Our debate has attracted people selling stuff. <<

I've been reading [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] for a year. Sorry I don't always have time to chime in.

I included my web site so you could fairly put my words in context, but if you didn't notice, I'm offering anyone who reads this thread something for FREE.

-Ron Low
TLCTugger@Juno.com

PS - free bumper/window stickers - white or baby blue background:
"A Foreskin is not a Birth Defect"
"Bring home your WHOLE baby. Say NO to circumcision"
"Circumcision? HIS body, HIS decision"
Click to expand...
Eh, actually I do believe there are rules that prohibit the use of [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] for marketing products without permission. We are kind of sensitive here to fellas who come in and on their VERY FIRST POST are selling shit, there have been many forum problems that resulted from this.
 
This is so funny! I can't believe you guys are trying to slap down Ron Low, one of the most well-known and respected figures in the restoration/anti-circ movement. You guys are so biased it's pathetic. You cry free speech and use lowdown tactics to try to run everyone off. Lowdown tactics? What do you mean? How about pages and pages of blatant rhetoric, derision, lies, and mind-numbingly boring text that is meant only to turn off casual readers and send them elsewhere.

Swank says the anti-circ movement is self-serving because they sent a 15 year old literature. Ha! He wasn't too young at 3 days old to mutilate his genitals, but 15 is too young to learn about it? How hypocritical! Not to mention this "15 year old" was actually an adult, who wrote to the orginization under false pretenses, in an attempt to make them look bad. It is only hearsay that the literature he received was deceptive and harmful. That is only the man's biased, subjective opinion of the info, and you know it, swank! I don't believe he received anything close to what he describes. Where is the proof? Am I supposed to just take your word for it? Ha! What a hypocrit you are, to demand proof of me, when you yourself can't back up a single word you say here!
 
Kong, are you saying it is ethical and acceptable to send a child information that says he will likely become a rapist, turn gay, and become suicidal because he's circumcised, in order to recruit him? Let me repeat that, these groups happily inform young teenagers that being circumcised may make them develop a desire to rape women! I don't think you're being fair. If I had a son and somebody sent him crap like that I'd be looking at a grounds for a lawsuit.

We're laughing at that guy because he's clearly selling that [words=http://TLCTugger.com/MOS]tugger[/words] thing. If he wanted to just chip in an opinion he didn't have to include a link to his product sales site (and even a free bonus give away!). He can say whatever he wants here, I welcome it, but I do believe that you're intentionally ignoring the fact that he's selling a product.

And Kong, everybody is trying ot make an effort to keep things more civil except for you. I have seen several posts now (since you brought in other mods to threaten bans on your critics) where you take an aggressive and insulting tone for no reason. Nothing I have said in this thread has warranted it.

"This is so funny! I can't believe you guys are trying to slap down Ron Low, one of the most well-known and respected figures in the restoration/anti-circ movement. You guys are so biased it's pathetic. You cry free speech and use lowdown tactics to try to run everyone off. Lowdown tactics? What do you mean? How about pages and pages of blatant rhetoric, derision, lies, and mind-numbingly boring text that is meant only to turn off casual readers and send them elsewhere."

How does your opinion of the "tactics" and such formerly used contribute to anything happening with this conversation? What has that got to do with the anti-circ movement we're trying to discuss here? It's just a quick opportunity to throw some insults out and effectively says nothing.

At least offer some proof where I have been lieing if you're going to call me a liar. If I said the same of you right now, how would you react? Not well if past experience is any indicator.

And just because I post in a clear manner and explain myself in full doesn't mean I'm trying to keep people from reading. If you recall, I encourage men to read the threads in whole as much as possible.

In this thread I have done nothing except try to conduct an informative and intelligent discussion on the issue, and yet you're still running around making statements like that. You were the one who complained loudly and frequently about the tone of the posts - now hold yourself to the rules you have demanded.

If I, or anyone else, had posted about you in the same fashion that you just did, I do believe you would go berszerk.

I honestly think it's pretty lame to cry foul for so long, then when everybody has stepped in to make an effort, you're the only taking potshots.

As a moderator and the person that demanded intervention from the mod team on your behalf, your conduct at the moment is deplorable, and the irony of you calling others 'hypocrites' is in fact rather hilarious.
 
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I'm not sure what "permission you are granting" here, but I for one would like to see things continue in a manner that focuses on the issues presented and not complaints against each other.

Posts like your previous do nothing except instigate problems and say little or nothing about FR and circumcision.
 
Permission has been granted for banning.

For the Restorers:

Ron Low actually posted here and was shouted down because he had a link in his sig...and a differing viewpoint. Ron is one of the more well-known and respected figures in the restoration movement. He is the creator of the [words=http://TLCTugger.com/MOS]tlc[/words] [words=http://TLCTugger.com/MOS]tugger[/words] and an outspoken opponent of male genital mutilation. I, for one, would have very much liked to have seen him welcomed here to [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words]. He could have offered alot of advice and information to the restorers here. Unfortunately, the "non-restorers" have attempted to silence him.
 
Kong, I find the double standard at work here to be worth a mention.

In the past you have frequently discounted the opinions of the medical establisHydromaxent and doctors regarding circumcision ideas that you dislike because you claim they all make money from circumcisions and hence are inherently biased (in rhetorical logic this is called recognition of the argument against the person: circumstantial).

Yet, when opinions you find favorable are presented by somebody who is clearly making money from FR and anti-circ feelings, you do not employ the same argument.

If I were a doctor advocating circumcision you would, I believe, be the first to cry fould. With one you associate bias, with another you do not. It's something to take a look at when examining our own thought process.

So far as banning, I do believe that is only warranted by certain conduct. Your threats continue to hold little weight.
 
Never said he wasn't biased. Nor I. Just wished we could have welcomed any contributions he might have wished to make without the Trio browbeating him. So much for Free Speech. Oh well... You accuse me of bias, but this IS the FR forum. That's like accusing all the members of [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] of being biased for large pricks. Duh, yeah! I want a big dick and a foreskin. That is why I'm here!
 
I don't think that assuming the gentlemen was posting in order to promote his website and product is brow-beating. I didn't say anything about his opinions, it just seemed clear he was promoting his product, even encouraging people to check out his site.

He's welcome to post any commentary he likes, but it seemed clear to me there were some pecuniary unerpinnings to his entrance into the thread.
 
I think he has more right to post here than you do. He is a restorer and an Intactivist. You're just some guy with no experience or interest in restoring with a bias against anti-circ orginizations. What have you contributed here besides alot of confusion and unrest? Answer: nothing.
 
Welcome to the forums Ron, I am happy you finally decided to chine in. Your progress pictures are simply amazing!
 
A note to those who have viewed Ron's post as "Selling a Product"

First I would like to say that I have been friends with Ron for over a year now and I know he has in fact lurked here. I will also add that he supports [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MoS[/words] via his own website where he gives us promotion via link exchange. With that said, even if I was not friends with Ron, his post in no way was in violation of our spamming rules as his intention in his link was to show his progress. Yes, he does sell a product but in my opinion he is not peddling this product. I appreciate the quick and swift alliance to the spamming rules here and I only ask you be more delicate in your means of asking these questions. I do not want to lose valuable members due to an unwarranted attack.
 
I had no idea who this Ron guy is. Sorry for any confusion Ron, please post more on the topic if you'd like.

I think it's understandable that I thought he was just a guy promoting his website, but once again I apologize for any confusion.
 
Swank said:

>> I didn't say anything about his opinions <<

Enough said. I thought we were here to discuss our opinions.

If I had just signed my name and not listed my company name (which has a ".com" in it) you would have accused me of hiding something. I'm sorry the page with my before / after pics has selling icons on it. I suppose I could set up a non-commercial diary-type page for when I want to share my progress without tipping anyone off to the fact that I've chosen to help people on a grand scale. On second thought, in what sane world would that happen?

>> there were some pecuniary underpinnings <<

I can't deny I'm eager to help as many people as possible. I've got a day job but I'd love for enough people to discover restoration for me to make a living off devices instead of just losing absolutely all of my free time. However, I'm not going convert the masses in an FR forum. I'm preaching to the choir.

I also really appreciate you using a word I had to look up. Learn something new every day.

-Ron Low
TLCTugger@Juno.com

PS - FREE for the asking, no strings attached - bumper/window stickers - white or baby blue background, choose a phrase or write your own:
"A Foreskin is not a Birth Defect"
"Bring home your WHOLE baby. Say NO to circumcision"
"Circumcision? HIS body, HIS decision"
 
Ron, I hope it is understood that was a sincere apology on my part.

I took a cursory look and thought you were just somebody who checked out the site and posted to promote the [words=http://TLCTugger.com/MOS]tugger[/words] device. I had seen people promoting websites and products on other threads before and had observed that this was a big no-no so far as the forum was concerned. In your case I certainly jumped to a conclusion and I regret the mistake.

I look forward to reading more of what you have to say.
 
Great too see you here Ron. We have communicated via email a few times in the past though I doubt you would remember. I hope you stick around to post some more.

Ex.
 
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