Making Good on my Promise

sephin said:

If you are the only world power that is willing to get off your thumbs and do something (besides Britain and the other 20-30+ countries that are non 'super powers'), you should. Its justice.

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Your Alright Sephin, but im glad Im not around when you and the fam talk politics :D...I dont claim to know 1% of what there is to know.....But when I see a quote like that, damn, there is some serious brainwashing takin place...

AMERICA IS NOT TRYING TO HELP THE POOR Penis EnlargementOPLE IN NEED :D :D :D

I mean, I thought we were past this :s

sephin said:

I just came here to make good on a promise and I did. *salutes the flag* Viva Bush

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Man, I think you have to start rooting for a sports team or something, cuz when I read that, It sounded like Goerge Bush was Football Team, And He just won the Superbowl!!!!

I have been browsing through the newswires on MSNBC and BBC the stuff that never makes it to your TV as well as listening to some talk radio and other sources. All of it is pushing the same propaganda.

You have liberals saying torturing people is good, and its how you have to deal with people. Army reports on MSNBC stating when they stop vehicles and the civilians do not have their papers in order they are taken away and tortured. TV shows now have episodes where the good guy must torture the bad guys children in order to make him talk. Does anyone see this or just take things for how they are and nothing more?

I also read new plans for the "Terrorist Fighters" to know go into Iran and Syria.

Other mainstream sources basically say the Iraqi people are all sub-human all animals kill them. An obviously it is accepted because its becoming more open. Im not an American so maybe I do not see it from the proper perspective. Do you believe these so called "Terrorists" are sub-human?

Do you understand this is the same type of brainwash Hitler used to have Germans believe Jews were sub-human?

Do you know what tactics were used in order for Hitler to assume total control and bring Germany into a dictatorship? If you do know, do you not see these same things repeating themselves?

I guess my final question is Do you even care? Or only if it effects you directly...

kausion_420 said:

Do you understand this is the same type of brainwash Hitler used to have Germans believe Jews were sub-human?

Do you know what tactics were used in order for Hitler to assume total control and bring Germany into a dictatorship? If you do know, do you not see these same things repeating themselves?

I guess my final question is Do you even care? Or only if it effects you directly...

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Yeah, thats what its all about man, I was thinking about this exactly as I was reading the first of your post, and that last point is very true for most because I remember a conversation and the ending point from someone was:

"I dont really give a fuck what Bush does in Iraq", pretty scary view, although it didnt come from an American, i bet thats mostly their views too....

But whenever shit gets hairy, Im just gonna move up north and buy a brand new 2012 sKidoo and go nuts :D
Me and the indians will have nothing to worry about.... :s

kausion_420 said:

I have been browsing through the newswires on MSNBC and BBC the stuff that never makes it to your TV as well as listening to some talk radio and other sources. All of it is pushing the same propaganda.

You have liberals saying torturing people is good, and its how you have to deal with people. Army reports on MSNBC stating when they stop vehicles and the civilians do not have their papers in order they are taken away and tortured. TV shows now have episodes where the good guy must torture the bad guys children in order to make him talk. Does anyone see this or just take things for how they are and nothing more?

I also read new plans for the "Terrorist Fighters" to know go into Iran and Syria.

Other mainstream sources basically say the Iraqi people are all sub-human all animals kill them. An obviously it is accepted because its becoming more open. Im not an American so maybe I do not see it from the proper perspective. Do you believe these so called "Terrorists" are sub-human?

Do you understand this is the same type of brainwash Hitler used to have Germans believe Jews were sub-human?

Do you know what tactics were used in order for Hitler to assume total control and bring Germany into a dictatorship? If you do know, do you not see these same things repeating themselves?

I guess my final question is Do you even care? Or only if it effects you directly...

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If you get a chance, please link the articles proclaiming the terrorists/Iraqi's as subhuman and justifying torture as a means for extracting information. There are all kinds of articles proclaiming all kinds of things and many of them are absolutely false. As a general rule, most unfortunate for Michael Moore, propaganda is not news.

Of course there are legitimate tactics for extracting information that are not exactly comfortable, but they are far from what is considered torture. Under the arm of the left winged, keeping a prisoner confined to a cell is 'torture by confinement'. Marshal law has been declared in Iraq, so if you do not have your papers there is a greater chance that you will be carrying a bomb. There are well defnied lines that must not be crossed to insure the protection of the soldiers and Iraqi civillians.

The only differnce between postwar Iraq and postwar [fill in the blank with any war prior to 1990] is the scale of media coverage. What occured in postWWII Germany is identical to what is happening in Iraq. It takes time and work to rebuild a traumatized country. War has always been war, the majority of the public has just never had to deal with it.

sephin said:

That was LONG ago, that was post-coldwar cuts friend, your facts obviously not in perspective. Democrats are always the ones cutting military anyhow.

BTW the SALARY of soldiers increased, is what I was saying.

Bad bad analogies. There is a different between someone punching you in the face recently and someone killing 20 people over the course of 10 years. Id say thats a better analogy. If you are the only world power that is willing to get off your thumbs and do something (besides Britain and the other 20-30+ countries that are non 'super powers'), you should. Its justice.

Democrats are hilarious. Clinton bombs an aspirin factory with 0 casualities and he is praised for his 'war tactics'. Suddenly people start dying because it is a real war, with real threats, with real repercussions and they start freaking out. I dont see democrats so fervent about DUI penalties, or other such crimes, that cause at least 10 times more deaths a year than all our casualties in the war thus far. In our own country too.

Its a card. A big one. Bigger than the pathetic and overplayed race card. What have the democrats ever done for minorities? What actual role of power has a minority held in a democrat presidency? (Lets exclude colin powell, he has been in EVERY presidency) I believe there was one prominent minority in Billy's presidency, office of interior design, or something similarly named.

In the past 50 years democrats have only handed out freebies to the poor, which predominantly affected minorities, and are not longterm effective for income. Thus, it keeps the poor/minorities in a perpetual need for democrats to keep handing them freebies.

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minorities ARE the main people in the democratic party. if anyone remembers the rebuplican national convention, try to recall how many black faces were in there. bet not many. then look at the democrat nation convention, it's like a fuckin mix of salt and pepper in there! there are very few black people in politics because it is mainly a white position. and we will almost NEVER see a black president in office. it's just the main facts. it's a basic fact that the people would rather see a rich white southerner be our president (in this case a hick from texas),than a well educated black man or god forbid....WOMAN....or black woman to really mix it up a bit. democratic voters however are mainly minorities due to their financial situations and every other aspect to why we need affirmative action. and the reason why we keep on handing "freebies" is because the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. that's how it's always going to be. i'm not saying that we go communist, but i'm saying give more money or opportunities so they can get out of the rut they are in and start being a major contributer to the country. but i don't see republicans helpin out with that, they wanna keep the money to themselves

samzman said:

and the reason why we keep on handing "freebies" is because the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. that's how it's always going to be. i'm not saying that we go communist, but i'm saying give more money or opportunities so they can get out of the rut they are in and start being a major contributer to the country. but i don't see republicans helpin out with that, they wanna keep the money to themselves

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I totally understand where you are coming from, but, man, with all due respect, I disagree. That philosophy doesn't work. We've been giving out free cash since LBJ (a Democrat) said, 'fuck the boys in Vietnam, I'm not pulling them out of there and going down in history as the only President to lose a war,' and started his "War on Poverty." We've been warring on poverty for nearly 40 years now, and whew-wee, it's worked like a charm ain't it? Just like communism worked for the USSR. You're saying give them more money. Well, if you're giving them more money, what's the motivation to go to work? Take for example...ME. My first year of college I got Pell grants because I lived with my dad and we were VERY low income. Next year I get some little piss ant job at the grocery store to help make ends meet and- BOOM!- family fucked, because we make too much money. So after taxes and tuition my $5000/year job netted me about $1000 or $20 bucks a week or $1 an hour. So if you up the freebie money, it isn't worth getting a job. No, Republicans don't want to give out free money... especially when we're the one's footing the bill with the money that we had to work for. If we can work for it, so can anyone else. That may sound harsh, but I've busted my ass, and my wife and son have done without things, to pay my own way through college and now law school, and I'll be damned if I want to give up the money I earn to people who would rather live off the government tit than get a job. If you want to give them something for free, make higher education publicly funded like grade school, and let people get an education, but just don't give them a fucking free check every month. I've worked my way out of poverty, literally, and I have no desire to give my earnings away to people who are capable, but too lazy, to do the same. Sorry, Zach, that's just my greedy Republican philosophy

Texan said:

I totally understand where you are coming from, but, man, with all due respect, I disagree.

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just because you said it like that.......made what you said a lot easier to hear. i respect the fact that you worked your way out of poverty, and i could understand how you wouldn't wanna give what you have earned. i guess it's all a matter of personal experience and perspective and all that. i never had to face that my family has land that's 12 generations old by the water front on cape cod, so i never had to work my way out of it. however my parents taught me that if you have somethin and someone doesn't, then give em some type of boost. because if we lost all that we have we would want some help too or some give so we can get back on our feet. i don't know maybe i'm just a softie :D

any how thanks for not making it personal by saying i'm "ignorant" as some people would say

You can go to the newswire websites and do searches and you will find things I am talking about (MSNBC is where I found most). I like when people search for it the same way I do that way if they are truly interested they will take the time and enlighten themselves in the process.

As far as propaganda not being news depends on how you view it. If you take the truth, and a little lie with a little more misrepresentation and top it off with some healthy spin... you get the mainstream news. The reason they add the spin is so that a horrible thing will seem good as the news anchor spews it out. That in my opinion in propaganda which is news.

Mainstream news in the states focuses on the negative aspects of the Bush administration and leaves no question as to whether or not the news is biased towards the left. It is interesting that you said you have to look for news portraying the positive aspects of the war.

Texan, what you have to realize is that you have the skill to pull yourself up and others do not. Therefore it is your role to pick up the slack for the people that would rather not go to work, because working is hard for some people and they need your hard earned money to take care of kid number 17. You should be thankful for the skills you have and I hope you can tell I'm being sarcastic.

Americans do not have a problem with helping others that want to help themselves. We do have a problem with giving people free rides. Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day, teach that man to fish and you will feed him for a lifetime. Tell them about the Democrats and you will teach them to whine.

I guess we all have our views.

You may believe as an Ameircan it is your duty to go to Iraq and save them from a terrible dictator that was funded and put into power in 1979 or there abouts by your country. Im still not too sure what good that does trying to "save" these people and give them democracy. Like I said earlier with the Spin that I mean. They won't just openly tell you that they already have the candidate chosen and there will be no voting. They tell you that they are not allowed to tell you who is even running or where the locations of the voting booths will be until after the election because there might be a "Terrorist Attack".

Also in the Jordan Times newswire from yesterday it claims the new police of Iraq's Democracy will be hiring another 100,000 soldiers from Saddam's former army. That will add to the other 50,000 of his former soldiers who are already on the force.

The average American attitude is that they are the country that helps everybody else and for that they are attacked. I'm wondering why the government doesn't help its own people before going into other countries and "helping" them. Why are so many jobs recently being outsourced leaving many jobless. You can tell someone to get a job you lazy bum but how does that guy compete with $0.17 an hour.

Why is there more drugs coming in now than there was before the top percent were given a large sum of money to have a war on drugs. Why is Opium production in Afganistan skyrocketing. Maybe they are making poppy seed muffins for the more feeble countries like the one I'm in.

The best way to truly help someone else is to help yourself first. If you are not at 100% then neither is your help. Unless of course you aren't really helping, but expanding and taking.

samzman said:

just because you said it like that.......made what you said a lot easier to hear. i respect the fact that you worked your way out of poverty, and i could understand how you wouldn't wanna give what you have earned. i guess it's all a matter of personal experience and perspective and all that. i never had to face that my family has land that's 12 generations old by the water front on cape cod, so i never had to work my way out of it. however my parents taught me that if you have somethin and someone doesn't, then give em some type of boost. because if we lost all that we have we would want some help too or some give so we can get back on our feet. i don't know maybe i'm just a softie :D

any how thanks for not making it personal by saying i'm "ignorant" as some people would say

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Naw, it's all cool... dif'rent storkes for dif'rent folks. I don't think people are ignorant for having different political views, and I truly hope it didn't come across that way. I respect everyone's opinion on this because I really can see the other side and understand the thought behind it, I just can't personally buy into it. Yeah, it probably has to do with how I grew up...

Shit I was hoping this thread would turn into another awsome politics throw-down.

Texan, I don't think we agree on a lot of things but you've got my upmost respect. I see some good in social welfare, but I see a lot more in people like yourself.