Mel Gibson's verbal tirade

penguinsfan said:

Well...that's what actually happened if you accept the Biblical account of history, which I know you don't. To portray it as anything else would be washing the story for political correctness.

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First of all, it's not proven, so it's not history, it's mythology. Second, the Romans were directly responsible for Christ's death.

That being said, to hold the Jewish population or faith accountable for it is asinine. The Christian community as a whole does not do this and anyone that does is just expressing some fringe idea.

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Agreed.

Sadly, yes, Gibson does appear to be someone different than what we would have hoped.

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Haha, that's sugar-coating it a little bit, don't ya think? He's just another loudmouth, rascist redneck that happened to make it big.

Slightly off the subject, but...

What I could never figure out about the religious zealots throughout history who blamed the Jews for killing Jesus, (like good ol' Mr. Gibson) was, what do they think the alternative should have been?
God's entire purpose for Christ was for him to be the world's savior, was it not?
And the only way he could do it was to be resurected from the grave, correct?
And the only way to become resurrected was to have first died, right?
So even if the blame for Jesus' "death" rests fully on the Jews, weren't they simply following God's plan?
And if that truly was his complete intent and purpose, set in motion from the Creation, then how in the flyin' blue fuck could mere piss-ant human beings ever do otherwise?

Suppose they didn't nail him up; then there would, in fact, BE no Christian religion.

So why all this twitch & froth hatred throughtout history
from the radical fringe of Christianity towards the Jews...for making their entire religion possible in the first place?
There's gratitude for ya!

And if it weren't his own race and religion who was supposed to provide God's plan, (which, according to scripture, was meant for Jews first and gentiles next, then "the other sheep"), then who do these people think SHOULD have "killed" Jesus? The Amish? Girl Scouts?
Avon ladies?

People like Mel...I'd like to hear what their version of the world would be like if Jesus had never been nailed to that cross, 'cuz that's about the only alternative.

Well, Jesus was a Jew, and exterminating Jews seems to be the pastime of the past 2,000 years. But in all seriousness, before we argue about who and why he was killed, it shouldn't be assumed that he even existed. To me, it's kind of funny arguing this, it's kinda like arguing if Batman lives in a cave or not.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

Well, to paraphrase Voltaire, "If Jesus hadn't existed, it would be necessary for man to have invented him".
Even if the MAN was mythical, there's no ignoring the effects the CONCEPT of Christ has had on the world.

P.S. Being the instigator that I am, from time to time; I was hoping to really stir up a good debate. I've been getting mentally lazy lately and needed a boost.

MAXAMEYES said:

Well, to paraphrase Voltaire, "If Jesus hadn't existed, it would be necessary for man to have invented him".

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That's correct. Humans so much want to believe that they have a greater purpose; that there's more to living life and dying and that's it, hence the mythological Jesus.

Even if the MAN was mythical, there's no ignoring the effects the CONCEPT of Christ has had on the world.

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In all seriousness, Hitler had a great effect, as did Elvis. The concept of Jesus was probably just a theft from the concept of the Egyptian God/man Mithra. The reason why Christianity has become so popular is Christianity was a religion sanctioned and enforced by the Roman Empire. It was exported to all of Rome's territories where it was forced on the people who lived there. Christianity also "stole" nearly everything it has from previous religions, so there was something for everybody. It was engineered in such a way that many people could convert without feeling like they were abandoning or blaspheming their former religions. Christianity is not blessed with some kind of baffling, enigmatic supernatural power, it was designed to do what it has done, that's all.

P.S. Being the instigator that I am, from time to time; I was hoping to really stir up a good debate. I've been getting mentally lazy lately and needed a boost.

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That's cool, you're not the only one who is an instigator and likes a good debate.

Just another thought, slightly farther off subject, is this one.
The basic message of Christianity, or I should say Jesus, is pretty simple and damn effective:

Treat people right.

That's about it. Take care of your responsibilities, a little self-sacrifice, a little self-control, don't fuck-up when the liberty's good.
All the rest, just like he said; is commentary.
Just how badly it's been fucked up over the centuries just goes to show how people can screw anything up through greed, corruption and power lust.

See, one of the big differences 'tween you and me is that I truly Believe that a guy named Jesus lived a coupla thousand years ago and he put down some pretty good info, it's just that his message has been perverted so horrendously that it bears little resemblance to the original.

There's a growing body of evidence that Jesus traveled extensively throughout Asia and much of his teaching was Buddhist in nature. Until it got hijacked.

If I remember, I'll look for some info about an entire town in Japan that claims direct descendence from Jesus. Who knows.
For me, on one hand there's faith and spirituality which'll help all of us get along better and might even provide a clue.
And then there's religion. Which tries to run your life for you and pretty soon, sustaining its own existence becomes of the utmost importance instead of human beings.

I think ol' Mel and far, far too many others like him would like to run our lives for us...while they go about their own business...that you and I shouldn't pay any attention to.

spirituality Hydromaxm yes agreed Girly Man

MAXAMEYES said:

Just another thought, slightly farther off subject, is this one.
The basic message of Christianity, or I should say Jesus, is pretty simple and damn effective:

Treat people right.

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Yea, that should be the message, but sadly that's not the case. If not for Christianity (or any other diestic religion), we wouldn't have had the Massacres of Indian Independence (1947, Hindu vs. Muslim) , Thirty years war (Christians, Catholics vs Protestants, Germany 1618-1648), the Albigensian Crusade (13 century, Christians killing heterics), or the Crusades, Christians vs Muslims to find the tomb of Christ, the Russian Pogroms, Sri Lanka, Sudanese Civil war, the teutonic Knights' crusades, right down to present day al-Qaeada. In every conflict mentioned, people sliced eachother up over some supernatural diety. The message might indeed be to treat people right, but too many are focused on the messanger, opposed to the actual message.

Just how badly it's been fucked up over the centuries just goes to show how people can screw anything up through greed, corruption and power lust.

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Agreed.

See, one of the big differences 'tween you and me is that I truly Believe that a guy named Jesus lived a coupla thousand years ago and he put down some pretty good info, it's just that his message has been perverted so horrendously that it bears little resemblance to the original.

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There could have "possibly" been a man named Jesus, but that name was common in that time period. I think if a man held sermons with hundreds of people in attendance it would be documented.

There's a growing body of evidence that Jesus traveled extensively throughout Asia and much of his teaching was Buddhist in nature. Until it got hijacked.

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By all means, show me so I can give it a once over.

If I remember, I'll look for some info about an entire town in Japan that claims direct descendence from Jesus.

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I never heard this little tidbit either. Do show info.

For me, on one hand there's faith and spirituality which'll help all of us get along better and might even provide a clue.

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Are you serious???? Get along better???? C'mon because of your skydaddy's command in the bible to kill witches, many midwives were burned as witches in the 1600s. Down to present, people are always willing to strap bombs to their chest in order to access some fictional "heaven". I think the world would be much better off if mankind never invented the idea of a god.

And then there's religion. Which tries to run your life for you and pretty soon, sustaining its own existence becomes of the utmost importance instead of human beings.

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Tienes razòn. You are correct.

Hey Kal, I'll keep looking for the Asian and Buddhist info I was talkin' about. And I think you kinda got a different perspective on faith and spirituality than what I was puttin' out.
For me, and what I meant, was that these things have nothing whatsoever to do with any form of religion, worship or dogma. But they have everything to do with Man's interconnectedness with fellow Man and our places in the Universe, both individually and collectively.

Faith is what keeps you talking to your loved one while they lay in a coma.
Faith is what keeps you working to provide your kids with a better future than what your past had been, and then you have faith that your kids'll turn out fine and appreciate all your hard work... eventually.
Faith is what gets you up outta bed every morning to go to that fucking job you can't stand because you're going to attain your goals, no matter what.

Faith is simple basic things too.
You have faith that your alarm clock's gonna work every morning.
You have faith that no drunk driver's gonna wipe yer ass off the planet as you drive to work.
You have faith that the dumb-ass kid that made your burger for lunch didn't hawk a loogie under de cheese.

And spirituality, for me, is simply recognizing that little old rock number three here, and our universe around that, is so much more vast, ancient and beautiful than anything we ever could have conceived of, yet we are an integral part of it.
That we humans are more than just walking meat sacks.
That there is much more to life than mere existence, although far too many people have forgotten that, unfortunately.

In my belief, we are spiritual beings having a material experience. And if you go back far enough and deep enough the vast majority of the worlds ancient religions started off that way before they got corrupted by human greed.

Jesus' message was real simple at the beginning; your buddy falls down? Pick him up.
Y'see somebody that's hungry? Feed him. Guy's cold? Give him your jacket. But also if you're cold, hungry and falling down drunk then y'need to dig yer head outta your ass and get on the ball. And if you see somebody abusing their power or privilege: Kick dey ass!

Like I said before it all boils down to :Treat people right.

&

To Pandora: I say to you once again, Girlie Man!

Here's a couple of links to star ya off.
( hope this shit works!)

1.http://www.mimbres.com/holp/holpath/budd1225.htm
2.http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/jesus.htm
3.http://buddhistfaith.tripod.com/pureland_sangha/id59.html
4.http://www.thiaoouba.com/tomb.htm
5.http://www.salagram.net/Jesus-Went-To-India.htm
This next one's pretty cool
6.http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~magi9/isracame.htm
This one is cool too
7.http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/chinamum/taklamakan.html

And this one's just for shit 'n' grins
8.http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Lagoon/1345/giants.html

Even though it's "the internet" I've been following a few of these story lines for a couple of decades now,,,
ENJOY !

Some words if you all don't mind....

I want to, if possible, relate faith (in this case the Christian faith) to Penis Enlargement and even to these forums.

A man feels he has a small penis...so he surfs the internets and finds a very comprehensive website with an extremely large forum. Alas! The man finds what he thought could not be possible...All the criticism of science, doctors, his friends, tv...every opposition is irrelevant at this point...he has plenty of reason to believe that this Penis Enlargement stuff works...hes never done it before but because he sees 50000 plus people are doing it and reads about the testimonials, hes sold. So he orders lube, the power assist, the penis pills, even pumps and weights...he wants them all. So the man gets into a routine posted by the one and only DLD, not really sure what hes doing to himself on a technical level, but he has (faith) that the man with the 10.5 inch dong is telling the truth and that he knows what hes talking about.
Months later after taking many breaks and suffering some common Penis Enlargement injuries, the man has made his first gain. Of course, he is ecstatic. He cant believe that this crap actually works. So excited, he decides to tell his bar-buddies about it, but all they can do is bash it, "oh I've tried doing that stuff it doesn't work...all I got was red spots and some pain"....his friend replying "no no no, you gotta do it right...you gotta stick with it to see gains my man!"...but still his friend chooses not to believe him.


OK how does this relate to faith and all that stuff..well...Lets say that instead of the man having a small penis, he has a crappy life where he is nearly poor, his wife died, and his dog blew up. At this point he feels he has no reason to live anymore so he wants to die but knows there has to be a better way...he refuses to believe his wife lived in vain as well as his dog. So, the man does some soul searching, trying different religions but they just don't answer his questions and help him. The man finds soon enough that he needs to have "faith" in order to believe and follow God. He has to trust in something that he cannot see and possibly not fully understand. Just like Penis Enlargement, he has to trust that what he is doing even though he isn't getting gains right away. When he does start to believe in this faith, he notices he is happier and is filled with joy and a purpose, and naturally that's good for him so he wants to share it with people (just like his testimony with Penis Enlargement).

In short, and this is to you Kal-el, the bad will follow the good. So, some people have had injuries with Penis Enlargement, some people bash Penis Enlargement and stopped doing it, some people have other methods they use that you've never used and don't know even work or not. Just because this is, does not make Penis Enlargement bad or unreal. That never stopped you from doing Penis Enlargement right? You kept on going because you had faith it would work and you may have seen gains. Just like in the Christian life when prayers are answered and miracles happen. Just because people have killed over Christianity, or God has killed people (that He created mind you) it doesn't mean that it is fake or bad...any one can give something a wrong name. Its the person or people who are wrong. It all boils down to faith, and wanting to believe. Its through our testimony how we get people to believe...either in Penis Enlargement or religion, you have to have faith...But it seems all you want to do is argue or debate...when you can't prove that God does not exist and I can't prove he exists. Almost every prayer I have ever said has come through, almost like a miracle. Believe it or not.

I know you're probably going to mutilate my every word to find fault so have fun

MAXAMEYES said:

To Pandora: I say to you once again, Girlie Man!

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Y'know, Pandora, between you and BTC yer gonna make me upgrade from dial-up if it kills me.

And

People can bash Arnold all they want, but I've gotten a fukkin' kick outta that guy for decades. Matter of fact I was doing Arnold stand-up back in the eighties. I got a gay Arnie routine that makes grown men piss themselves.

MAXAMEYES said:

Y'know, Pandora, between you and BTC yer gonna make me upgrade from dial-up if it kills me.

And

People can bash Arnold all they want, but I've gotten a fukkin' kick outta that guy for decades. Matter of fact I was doing Arnold stand-up back in the eighties. I got a gay Arnie routine that makes grown men piss themselves.

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Yeah Arnold is cool he allways will be lol.

ha 56k Girlie man:D

Here's something so damn far off of the original subject it probably deserves its own thread...but.
For my money, just about the coolest old dude in movies is Clint Eastwood.
Guy's been around for fifty years or more and he still kicks ass.
If I could age half as well as that I'd be one happy fukkin' camper.

Arnold hates the Jews and any other Minority more than Gibson...

You know how many celebs and powerful people say fucked up shit that gets quoted?

Just wonderin why Mel gets all the publicity.

What man has done in the name of "God," however he/she is perceived, is abominable!!!

Why can't we all, "Live and let live!!"--Jews, Christians, Moslems, (I don't think we have to worry about the Buddhists)--they abhor the injury of ANY sentient being!!! AND THEY DON'T JUST TALK THE TALK!! THEY WALK THE WALK!! GOD BLESS THE BUDDHISTS!!!!

The truth DOES come out when you're drunk, right? Mel Gibson has tried to make atonement for his anti-semitic statements. He's even said he's going to look at his other "dysfuncton--i.e. "anti-semitic feelings" (probably learned at his father's knees), after he gets his act together. His old man is classic--he reminds me of the leader of Iran!!! Anyone who buys the non-existence of the holocaust must hate the Jews!! If the world didn't have the Jews to blame for all its ills, what would it turn to?--i.e. that asshole in Iran!!

If they destroyed Israel and all the Jews, they'd turn to new scapegoats--i.e. the gays, gypsies, etc. anyone who is "different," just like Hitler did!!

I say FUCK RELIGION!!! IT HAS DONE MORE EVIL IN THIS WORLD!!

Regarding Arnold, he has diarrhea of the mouth. And after all, he is Austrian? in extraction. The Europeans are known for their anti-semitism!!! When I lived in Europe, not so long ago, I heard as many anti-semitic statements as I heard growing up in the good ol' U.S.A.--and believe you me, I've heard a lot of them.