Kal-el

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I wanted to make my opinion on this subject, crystal clear, and would like to hear everyone's feedback.

I believe the death penalty must be abolished because no person has the right to kill another coldly in a premeditated, organized manner. Those such criminals that partake and commit murder, have an extreme illness, and they must be kept apart from society. They need to be shown that through violence, they cannot get a "free pass", or take the easy way out by being executed. They should be isolated from others who committed petty offenses, while at the same time they can think about the monstrous nature of their actions.

Never forget that all criminals are sick, and always consider them as such. We are shocked when we remember that back in the day we used to suffocate people between matresses if they suffered from fits of hysteria. Some day, when we are able to cure the sickness of crime, we will be just as shocked when we look back at how we used to kill criminals.

I like to take Jesus as an example and forgive those who have done me any harm unintentionally, and hold no "beef" with anyone who causes me harm intentionally. Those people are sick, for one must be ill to harm one's neighbor.

But if someone wants to harm you or your family, try to subdue them. If you can't, then you have the right to defend yourself to save your own life or the lives of loved ones. On the contrary, never hit with the intent to kill, even in legitimate defense. You should try only to render the person harmless- by knocking him/her out. If the blow you give turns out to be fatal, don't worry- as long as you didn't have the intention to kill.

Some violent people need to be subdued by force, and sometimes by direct action. Violent behavior is intolerable, and you should'nt tolerate it, even if you have to forcibly restrain violent people. But always use a non-violent force, a force applied without evil intentions, suffiecient only to overcome those who do harm.

Any threat of violence should be treated as seriously as the actual deed. To threaten violence is to think it possible, and to see it as an acceptable way of achieving one's goals. A person who threatens with violence, is as dangerous as someone who already has committed a violent act.

Finally, when dealing with those who take hostages, think first of the lives of the innocent people who are not in the hands of the hostage-takers. People who take hostages are sick, and you shouldn't give in to their wishes. We must never give in to them because by doing so you encourage others to copy those actions.
 
when Jesus said "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" it was because peeps were taking an eye, arm and 'nads, for a tooth. I believe that he meant that the retribution shouldn't be more than the crime. I also believe that when someone in this country tramples on "a victims" rights by committing a criminal act the should forfeit there rights for their entire jail term.
A jail cell should be 8' long 3' wide 9' high with toilet 1 roll of toilet paper per month, minimal food, and you get out of your cell once a month for a shower,and 15" of exercise.
As far as the death penalty is a joke anyway it costs more to kill them than it does to keep them in jail their whole life anyway.
I say Just stick all the murders, rapists, lawyers, computer hackers, in a football arena hand them Uzi's and let the cops shoot the last one standing! :p
 
I'll be quick and to the point.
If you take a life than your life should also be taken.
If you commit certain crimes such as treason, terrorism and traitorism ect ect than that should call upon a death sentence.
The death sentence for me would be hanging, but it isnt that nice really is it? so better to use a lethal injection, put the scum down.
Please note the UK has a death penalty and thats for treason where its hanging.
 
I'd say sometimes even treason is understandable. The only time treason is treasonous in nature is if it is against the safety and overall security of the country and more importantly the common people/military/government officials etc. But the leaders of a country need to be put in place every now and then as history can tell us. The men who helped found the States were committing treason. There's always justified arguments for killing, violence and the appropriate punisHydromaxents. I'm sorry, but the most obvious case of anyone being capable of at least being hypocritical when it comes to being wholly non-violent is if someone is strangling, stabbing, shooting, or otherwise causing severe harm to a loved one before your eyes. I would kill or at least try to kill the person trying to kill my brother, mother, father, etc. You can't live by a credo when it comes to sheer survival and that is what life comes down to in the most raw terms.
 
Originally posted by iwant8inches
There's always justified arguments for killing, violence and the appropriate punisHydromaxents. I'm sorry, but the most obvious case of anyone being capable of at least being hypocritical when it comes to being wholly non-violent is if someone is strangling, stabbing, shooting, or otherwise causing severe harm to a loved one before your eyes. I would kill or at least try to kill the person trying to kill my brother, mother, father, etc.

I don't agree that there's any justified argument for violence used against a non-violent person. That's the main problem we're seeing in Iraq. All the soldiers think that they are doing the "right" thing, because Bush tells us "war is unfortunate but neccessary to rid the world of evil". People will do anything for a great cause. The art of governing is to convince the people of the greatness of their country. So thousands of innocent Iraqi civilans are killed and noone even thinks twice about it. Now we can understand why Jesus was crucified, why millions of people died at the hands of the Inquisition, during religious or civil wars, and through the Nazi massacres. It becomes alot easier to understand how a simple green grocer or banker can become a crucifier, or an S.S. solider. They all thought that they were doing the "right thing" for humanity. The first ones were eliminating a rebel who challenged their authority and their traditions, and others felt that people who lived differently were responsible for the bad crops or the plague or even the economical crisis. Idiots can be excused of thinking these ideas, but not the governments, who by giving these crazy ideas to the masses, control and manipulate them for their own ends.
 
"An eye for an eye" is O.T. isn't it? I think the justice system is very flawed, the use of the death penalty is capricious at best; but some crimes just seem to beg for it.
 
The Canadian Coalition Against the Death Penalty, or CCADP, is doing an alright job fighting this law and has even successfully fought innocent death row inmates cases with them, funding their lawyers in retrials and won, and thats the obviously the worst thing about this whole business, is there are one fuckload of innocent people in prison....

http://www.ccadp.org/

One really good dated link on it shows the mass of people Goerge Bush executed as governor, more than any other in US history, and is just another in the sea of cases that shows what an utter pile of shit he really is.

http://ccadp.org/serialpresident.htm

A crazy part of that site I remember seeing is how they have listings of death row inmates, the hardest mother fuckers you've ever laid eyes on, who just want a penpal or someone to talk to.....
 
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Illness? Ha ha haaaa. Yes they are 'sick' we must 'help' them. Bullshit. People kill because they are insane and need to stay in a mental facility for the rest of their lives no matter how much they 'recover.' Other than that, its greed, lust, hate, or other forms of evil. They are not sick, they just made a bad choice. The death penalty should be legal across the US. Capital punisHydromaxent cuts back on prison costs (wages, building jails, cost to house inamtes.)

3 strikes needs to be used. You know how many sexual offenders are repeat offenders? A huge percentage (dont have #s right in front of me). We need to castrate them 1st time with 20 years in jail no parole, no 'good behavior'. 2nd time 30 years no parole, no 'good behavior'. 3rd time if they arent dead by now, death penalty.

Lastly we need to make jails in 3rd world countries and pay them to house our prisoners. It would be cheaper, we could help 3rd world countries, + no prisoner would want to be in a 3rd world country prison.

I think our justice system is way too lenient. People sympathize and try to 'understand' and 'rehabilitate.' The only thing you need to understand is they are comitting atrocious crimes, that deserve atrocious impisonment times and prisons.

P.S. that site is fucking bullshit. They are such crocks. "As the iraqi war distracts another decorated soldier is killed". They are saying how honorable he is and how he did well in the war and was decorated.

Of course they dont focus on the fact he kidnapped, raped, and murdered a 19 yr old private woman. Canada and other sympathizing nations make me fucking sick. Im out :)
 
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Originally posted by derringer57
Illness? Ha ha haaaa. Yes they are 'sick' we must 'help' them. Bullshit. People kill because they are insane and need to stay in a mental facility for the rest of their lives no matter how much they 'recover.' Other than that, its greed, lust, hate, or other forms of evil. They are not sick, they just made a bad choice. The death penalty should be legal across the US. Capital punisHydromaxent cuts back on prison costs (wages, building jails, cost to house inamtes.)

I consider killing under the guise of war killing too. How can a soldier who shoots an innocent civilian be any less "insane" than any other murderer? Both have the same intent and delivery. Not to mention end result.
 
Kal-el said:
I don't agree that there's any justified argument for violence used against a non-violent person. That's the main problem we're seeing in Iraq. All the soldiers think that they are doing the "right" thing, because Bush tells us "war is unfortunate but neccessary to rid the world of evil". People will do anything for a great cause. The art of governing is to convince the people of the greatness of their country. So thousands of innocent Iraqi civilans are killed and noone even thinks twice about it. Now we can understand why Jesus was crucified, why millions of people died at the hands of the Inquisition, during religious or civil wars, and through the Nazi massacres. It becomes alot easier to understand how a simple green grocer or banker can become a crucifier, or an S.S. solider. They all thought that they were doing the "right thing" for humanity. The first ones were eliminating a rebel who challenged their authority and their traditions, and others felt that people who lived differently were responsible for the bad crops or the plague or even the economical crisis. Idiots can be excused of thinking these ideas, but not the governments, who by giving these crazy ideas to the masses, control and manipulate them for their own ends.

So, then we're talking about the difference between self preservation and unjustified or otherwise unnecessary killing/violence? I am on about the same page as you when it comes to the Iraq situation, but I'm just saying you can't place all of these scenarios under an umbrella. Killing and violence is part of our history and obviously a part of our society. Someday maybe we'll rid the world of murder and other atrocious acts, but for now I don't believe that killing is always unjustifiable. This world is not a vaccum and we'll always be subjected to the situations and consequences of someone else's along with our own actions/reactions.
 
I stand by my beliefs
If you take a life than your life should also be taken.
If you commit certain crimes such as treason, terrorism and traitorism ect ect than that should call upon a death sentence
 
Originally posted by iwant8inches
So, then we're talking about the difference between self preservation and unjustified or otherwise unnecessary killing/violence? I am on about the same page as you when it comes to the Iraq situation, but I'm just saying you can't place all of these scenarios under an umbrella. Killing and violence is part of our history and obviously a part of our society. Someday maybe we'll rid the world of murder and other atrocious acts, but for now I don't believe that killing is always unjustifiable. This world is not a vaccum and we'll always be subjected to the situations and consequences of someone else's along with our own actions/reactions.

Killing and violence may be part of our history, but indeed it is a mistake to view the past to predict future events. We should instead be critical of the past and build the present for the future instead of building the present on the basis of the past.
 
Kal-el said:
but indeed it is a mistake to view the past to predict future events.

Not to say what you have said is wrong. But if everybody had a full grasp of History and the world Changing Historical Events, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today.
 
Kal, let me ask you a question, If some cruel bastard raped and killed you wife and your 2 year old daughter, would you want them put in jail for 30 years, or would you want to throw the switch to the electric chair? I know for me I would want the bastard killed by the most cruelest method that I could think of. I'm with Red if a person takes a life, then his/her life should also be taken. In the UK now, they have abolished the death penalty, but with the recent terrorist bombings I hope they reinstate it. I agree that the police should have the right to shoot to kill any person who is a suspected bomber.
 
Originally posted by Duppi KronKite
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal-el
but indeed it is a mistake to view the past to predict future events.



Not to say what you have said is wrong. But if everybody had a full grasp of History and the world Changing Historical Events, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today.

I understand your point of view, but I think to make the world more peaceful, we should examine the way we think. I like to think "outside the box." History is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances, and violations which were made by primitive people.

The single most important innovation of our time is television, the source of genuine planetary awareness that makes it possible to see what goes on every day all over the globe, while we realize that the primitive people who live on the other side of the border have all the same joys, sorrows, and problems as we do. T.V. also records the progress of science, artistic creations, and so on. But at the same time, as we see with some news stations, (FOX being an exemplary example) it falled itno the hands of people who use it to condition the masses with biased info.
 
You speak about thinking outside of the box but you get your information from the "Propaganda Box", the greatest hypnotist to the world conciousness??

If a person reasearches history they notice events happening a certain way and people reacting to these events a certain way. The events keep occurring and people keep reacting the exact same way which makes the outcomes the same.

What if the T.V. was created to condition the masses with biased info?

What if by learning History one noticed the present to be the same movie with different actors?

Would we finally be free and peaceful or is it in us to be hedonistic and controlled by the very people we claim to be evil...
 
Originally posted by British prick
Kal, let me ask you a question, If some cruel bastard raped and killed you wife and your 2 year old daughter, would you want them put in jail for 30 years, or would you want to throw the switch to the electric chair? I know for me I would want the bastard killed by the most cruelest method that I could think of. I'm with Red if a person takes a life, then his/her life should also be taken. In the UK now, they have abolished the death penalty, but with the recent terrorist bombings I hope they reinstate it. I agree that the police should have the right to shoot to kill any person who is a suspected bomber.

Well, hypothetically speaking of course, if that happened a part of me would want to fry the person, but then that would be against everything I believe. In that case, I would try to instate Jesus' famous Golden Rule- "Do unto others as you would have them do to you." I beleive by the way we are progressing, in the maybe distant future, we will be able to cure criminal activity, since it is an illness, and until we can these criminals must be kept outside society , and we must try to make them understand that their behavior is dreadful.
 
Originally posted by Duppi Kronkite
You speak about thinking outside of the box but you get your information from the "Propaganda Box", the greatest hypnotist to the world conciousness??

What exactly are you referring to when you say "Propaganda Box?"

What if the T.V. was created to condition the masses with biased info?

I don't believe that's the case. It may be that way now though. In any case, there is the internet too. I forgot to mention that earlier. It is a fantastic creation, that wasn't even around a little while ago. See what technology can do! Today, Parents have no idea what their children will go through. They can't imagine what kind of future they will know, because everything changes so fast, and evolves at an ever-increasing speed. For example, children today are surrounded by advanced technology such as the internet, video games, and digital television. A child can hardly understand that his grandfather once rode on horses instead of cars, that he didn't have electricity, and that every year he could die from a simple cold he caught in Januaury. But just like his grandfather, the child hasn't seen anything yet!


If a person reasearches history they notice events happening a certain way and people reacting to these events a certain way. The events keep occurring and people keep reacting the exact same way which makes the outcomes the same.

What we need to do is to let go of our primitive ideas, and see the present world for all its good, instead of being held back by our fears of the past.

Compared to now, life was a series of traumatic sufferings compounded with ignorance, fear and cruelty. It dosen't suprise me that the "corrupt" religions glorified this suffering and made it a key to heaven. And while they hope that their children would have a better life, or hope that the future would hold more promise, or hope that their suffering was not for nothing, and they would be rewarded some day- in heaven. And that heaven is today! We are reaping the heaven of their toils. In each generation there have been honorable people who took what was good and made it better, or stood up against what was bad. Bit by bit, each generation of scientists, architechts, merchants, leaders, teachers, learning from their predecessors and adding their own contributions.

Anyway, we must make sure we take care of our elderly population. But we must respect the aged and do everything to make them happy, we should'nt listen to them because of their senoirity.
 
I would try to instate Jesus' famous Golden Rule- "Do unto others as you would have them do to you." I beleive by the way we are progressing, in the maybe distant future, we will be able to cure criminal activity, since it is an illness, and until we can these criminals must be kept outside society , and we must try to make them understand that their behavior is dreadful.
That Golden Rule needs to be taken in the context of the whole paragraph/page. That is the #1 reason the Bible is misinterpreted. It isnt an illness, it is evil, and there is no cure for evil, only driving it out, but then that dips back into my religious beliefs. You are too sympathetic. You will never make everyone or even most of the people understand, and many who do understand will blatantly claim they will do it again.

The surefire way which has worked in the past is to have a strong almost ruthless justice system that isnt lenient or tries to 'understand.'
 
originally posted by longTom
when Jesus said "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" it was because peeps were taking an eye, arm and 'nads, for a tooth.

I don't mean to pick on you longTom, but Jesus did'nt say that. He replaced that barbaric message on his famous "sermon on the mount" with "Love your enemies". Just some info- Mahatma Ghandi said, "If everyone followed eye for an eye, Americans would be blind."
 
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