It's a valid point Threak and yes i'm open to the discussion of it (though the answer would be no) but i don't understand what trust has to do with it. What you appear to be saying is that if she is not satisfied than she will cheat anyway and this i agree with however what you then appear to say (correct me if i'm wrong) is that you should therefore trust that its only sexual and let her have it but this is where i struggle to understand the mindset because be it getting a larger penis or becoming immensely sexual skilled there are so many options available as alternatives and i would still retain my original point which is that if a women acts on these impulses either deceitfully or after i said no then i would view that as a rejection of me as her mate (and me rejecting her for being a slut and weak willed) and therefore break up. Under no circumstances could i ever see myself willing to suBathmateit to being the beta male of the relationship so to speak.
 
neognostic;520290 said:
Or you could say that she's selfish enough to try to get you to change into something you aren't since she wants something (sex) that is, in fact, rejecting in its behavior if not its intended effect (which is to get sex, let's be honest). For a woman to tell you such a thing isn't an indication of some deep emotional connection. It's putting the so called deep emotional connection on a tier below sexual desire. I've been the second man in such relationships and let me tell you that there was some deep pathology at work there and lots of co-dependence on the part of the couple but there wasn't what I would call a deep and healthy emotional connection.

With deep emotional connections people grow into one another, not apart. Do some people have perfectly happy marriages/relationships based on open sexuality? Sure, but I wouldn't say it's because of some vast personal enlightenment they've attained. Quite the contrary in my opinion.
neognostic couples are not in love 100% of the time in any relationship. A person's preferences, views, and so on change over time, sometimes, not in the same direction within the relationship. If you're stating the emotional connection is dropped below the sexual desire tier, then, the action is some type of mask to avoid a deeper issue. This action will damage the emotional connection and the relationship will become dysfunctional eventually if left untreated. Unhealthy, as you experienced from being the 2nd man in the relationship.
 
hepcat;520483 said:
MikeSchlort, I would love to hear your opinions about this course of action. It seems it would go with your line of thinking. I mean do you think if I started calling bitches bitches to their face it would produce better results or would I just have to knock them down a peg or two some other way? I'm talking about never taking them out to eat anywhere (at least anywhere with decent food or decor), never by them any gifts, tell them to do shit for me that I should be doing for myself, treating them like a piece of meat, etc... Care to give your thoughts on the aforementioned?

You have to do it the right way. I think it would be tricky. You're better off being an asshole than being a nice guy, but it has to be genuine. If they can sense it's a ploy, they will disregard you.

I'm not sure about all the taking her to shitty restaurants stuff, I would think once you have her on the hook enough to go out with you, you're set. I would never buy a woman anything as a gift, but I would probably pay for a date if I was the one who asked her out, making clear that it's a date. I don't worry about this kind of thing anyways. The focus shouldn't be on the activity, it should be on how you are going to hit it off with her. If she likes you and you have a connection, you could take her to a coffee shop and sit and talk for hours.

Getting back to being a prick, it's hard to say. I tend to speak to people in real life how I would speak here, maybe being a bit more careful with my wording because my only source of socializing is the workplace. At my one job, where it is middle aged office staff women, I speak very differently than at my other job where it is high school and college aged labourers, but the message is generally the same and I mean what I say. The delivery is different and there are just things I can't say.

I don't get girls, I'm not good with them but I will tell you, if there is a girl I like, I will go out of my way to say the most awkward, belligerent non sequiturs for her benefit, as long as it were clever and funny enough to make the room laugh. Otherwise, I'd just sit quiet and avoid any eye contact with her. Pretending you don't care about her existence is important, I think. But if she makes the effort to communicate with you, you can't act like an aloof dickhead. I avoid all eye contact and noticing her at all, unless she initiates verbal communication, then at that point I would probably look her in the eyes the whole time like I wanted to fuck her, or if I was in a certain mood, I would continue to avoid eye contact with her and keep the response to a minimal. It's really hard to give any advice, as I don't know shit and it all depends on split second reactions. She also has to be physically attracted to you in the first place, or you're just another sucker trying to talk her into liking you.

I guess to sum it up, you're better served always being completely honest with a twist of humour, or if you're being sarcastic, make it so it's difficult for the person to discern if you're being serious or not. All these little games don't really mean shit though because if I liked a certain girl and felt I had a chance to get her, I'd probably walk up to her and say "date me, you sarcastic prick". This has yet to happen.
 
Threak-X;520482 said:
neognostic couples are not in love 100% of the time in any relationship. A person's preferences, views, and so on change over time, sometimes, not in the same direction within the relationship. If you're stating the emotional connection is dropped below the sexual desire tier, then, the action is some type of mask to avoid a deeper issue. This action will damage the emotional connection and the relationship will become dysfunctional eventually if left untreated. Unhealthy, as you experienced from being the 2nd man in the relationship.


Yuppers!
 
hepcat;520483 said:
MikeSchlort, I would love to hear your opinions about this course of action. It seems it would go with your line of thinking. I mean do you think if I started calling bitches bitches to their face it would produce better results or would I just have to knock them down a peg or two some other way? I'm talking about never taking them out to eat anywhere (at least anywhere with decent food or decor), never by them any gifts, tell them to do shit for me that I should be doing for myself, treating them like a piece of meat, etc... Care to give your thoughts on the aforementioned?
hepcat what you are describing is assertive, confident, decisive type man which women love, without all the added negativity. Could you image growing up watching your Mother being treated the way you described in your quote by your Father. Both Dre and Snoop are married with children, you think they treat the Mother of their children like "Bitches ain't shit but ho's and tricks"? All that is a facade, an image to sell records. Treat a woman with respect but don't place her on a pedestal, unless you want to look up her dress (pervert). Anyways, MikeShlort has it right, don't make yourself easily available to the woman. A good woman doesn't like a man she can easily get and control all the time. Also, MikeShlort is saying make the woman's experience fun with you, memorable, be humorous without being overly offensive. Basically, to keep things simple in the beginning and build the connection first before making any major emotional, financial, or physical investments with her.
 
hepcat;521027 said:
I know Dre and Snoop are both married with kids, but how did they get their women at the start. That's the point I was trying to make.
hepcat the same way they made in the Entertainmant Business, being assertive, confident, decisive and relentless.
 
hepcat;521261 said:
I'm still hoping for a revelation but it is a long time coming. I try to stay optimistic.

You clearly missed what Threak-X and I were trying to tell you. You're better off not worrying about things like that and worrying about important things ie - how much you can win at life and the like. People (including females) will have more respect for you.
 
Because all that bullshit you see 'em puttin' out for the masses (chest thumpin' and branch rattlin') is all that; just bullshit.
And, unfortunately, people (some people) buy into that shit.

hepcat;521027 said:
I know Dre and Snoop are both married with kids, but how did they get their women at the start. That's the point I was trying to make.
 
hepcat;521276 said:
Oh, your last post made it seem like you were saying to give up on humanity. After clarifying I agree with what you both said.

No, I'm more okay with humanity than before. It's necessary to be a part of it.
 
Threak-X;520482 said:
neognostic couples are not in love 100% of the time in any relationship. A person's preferences, views, and so on change over time, sometimes, not in the same direction within the relationship. If you're stating the emotional connection is dropped below the sexual desire tier, then, the action is some type of mask to avoid a deeper issue. This action will damage the emotional connection and the relationship will become dysfunctional eventually if left untreated. Unhealthy, as you experienced from being the 2nd man in the relationship.

Yep.
 
MikeShlort;521628 said:
No, I'm more okay with humanity than before. It's necessary to be a part of it.

Wow, I would have thought you would have a general disregard for humanity:)
 
doublelongdaddy;521944 said:
Wow, I would have thought you would have a general disregard for humanity:)

Well anyone who has their eyes open should. You still need people to accomplish anything on this planet.
 
I believe it's because people jump in to relationships too soon or commit too early. Since it's very difficult to find a single mate to meet all of our emotional and sensual needs.
 
MikeShlort;521998 said:
Well anyone who has their eyes open should. You still need people to accomplish anything on this planet.

My assessment of humanity is largely that we are absolutely brilliant species in relation to intelligence and creativity however we are sadly also conflictive and gullible (a large swathe of society are simply sheep waiting to be led) with an unthinkable capacity for hatred and brutality.

I've probably said it before but to use Startrek, i still haven't decided whether we will be a benevolent Federation or a brutal Klingon Empire, i think the jury is still out.
 
AlexFowl;522000 said:
I believe it's because people jump in to relationships too soon or commit too early. Since it's very difficult to find a single mate to meet all of our emotional and sensual needs.

Needs. That's such an ugly word to me.
 
AlexFowl;522000 said:
I believe it's because people jump in to relationships too soon or commit too early. Since it's very difficult to find a single mate to meet all of our emotional and sensual needs.
One person cannot meet 100% of another person's emotional and sensual needs, if so, a child would never leave the Mother. Then what is the basis for the premature decision of commitment; the inability to make an informative decision because of the cloud of infatuation and lust?
 
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