BigFish

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This training philosophy works great for me. And I think it will work for almost every trainee in the world because it does not give you a precise plan what to do at each workout...
It shows what a sucessful plan should contain in order to give you bigger muscles, more power and does not overtrain you.
To achieve that you have to train diligently and listen to what your body tells you. You will have to eat more healthy and get enough sleep.

What I will tell you know is not that new but it is more radical than any other program you might have heard of.

In order to get bigger you have to do really basic movements like squats, deadlifts, benchpresses, dips, military presses, rows and chinups and similar exercises. (That is not new LMAO )

Check out http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html for these exercises. Learn the technique and once you can apply good form in these start by adding about 2.5 or 5 pound every second or third week. If you cannot do this after a few weeks you are doing something wrong like sleeping to less or eating not enough or even training to frequently.

Do each of the listed exercises two times a week or two times every two weeks and try to keep your training time under 60 minutes.

Do not do more than 3 working sets on each lift

Do between 6 and 12 repetitions of each exercise.

Do not go to failure. Just do as many reps you can do without loosing form

Do squats and deadlifts on seperate days

Forget about isolation movements for a long while

Do your exercises smooth and without any cheating

If you feel discomfort like pain in any of this exercises ask a trainer or a skilled bodybuilder if your form is right. If you are doing it right and still have pain go to an equal exercise. (leg press instead of squats or dumbell instead of barbell rows)

Keep you focus to get more iron on the bar at these exercises every second or forth week and add one abdominal exercise at the end of each workout and a calf exercise that you do two times a week.


Add rotator cuff exercise as soon as you can almost benchpress your own bodyweight!

If you want further instructions ask me or go to hardgainer.com and check out the books of Stuart McRobert. They inspired me a lot and my concept of training is based on it.

I like this training because it is short hard and effective. I am able to train less for more and am able to get my other hobbies and occupations done.

Do not get distracted by other training routines or what other people might say. This is a training that can be fit to anyone. And it is especially suited for hardgainers. And what works for them will even work for easygainers but less time consuming than the normal high volume training.
 
A routine could be like this:

Train these alternating three or two times a week

Day A:
squats
benchpress
chinups
ab exercise

Day B:
deadlifts
military press
dumbell rows
one legged calfraise holding a dumbell
 
I have stopped for an year now.

This is a good routine to start again.

Thanks a lot.;)
 
Sound plan....I however have had alot of success doing things slightly differently. I have had the best results doing something along the following lines:

Monday and Wednesday
1. Bench Press- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets)
2. Squat- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets
3. Deadlifts- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets
4. Barbell Rows- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets)
5. Shrugs- 3 x 5 (~1.5min wait between sets)
6. Shoulder Press- 3 sets x 4-6 reps (~1.5 min wait between sets)

Friday-
1. Bench Press- 4 sets x 8-10 reps (~30 second wait between sets)
2. Squat- 4 sets x 10-14 reps (~30 second wait between sets)
3. Speed Deads- 4 sets x 10-12 reps (~30 second wait between sets)
4. Cleans- 5 x 8-10 reps (~30 second wait between sets)
5. Abs

Now I actually believe in maxing out your muscles. However for the first 3 weeks I don't do as much weight as possible instead keep proggressing adding weight every week. till eventually I lifting close to my max for 3-5 reps. the muscle i gained from this was unbelievable.
 
im2manly said:
Monday and Wednesday
1. Bench Press- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets)
2. Squat- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets
3. Deadlifts- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets
4. Barbell Rows- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets)
5. Shrugs- 3 x 5 (~1.5min wait between sets)
6. Shoulder Press- 3 sets x 4-6 reps (~1.5 min wait between sets)

Friday-
1. Bench Press- 4 sets x 8-10 reps (~30 second wait between sets)
2. Squat- 4 sets x 10-14 reps (~30 second wait between sets)
3. Speed Deads- 4 sets x 10-12 reps (~30 second wait between sets)
4. Cleans- 5 x 8-10 reps (~30 second wait between sets)
5. Abs
It's a nice basic routine but i just don't like the idea of doing Squats and deadlifts during the same workout (much less back to back)... If you're truely doing heavy lifting, the second of the two will most likely suffer and can put you at risk of injury. When i'm done with squats, there's no way in hell i'm going to be able to do half my max weight on deads.... The only way i could do both on the same day is if i did one early morning and the other early evening.
 
wow, you train bench press three times per week!? i was always told that its best to train it once per week (as with every muscle).
my workout goes like:

(week 1)

monday: chest& triceps
bench press - 5 sets of 5 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
incline press - 3 sets of 5 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
pec dec - 3 sets of 5 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
dips - 3 sets of maximum (at least 2 mins of rest)

tricep pulldowns - 3 sets of dropdowns (10 the drop 10kg, perform another 6)
tricep extensions - 3 sets at 6-8 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
kickbacks - 3 sets of 6-8 reps


wednesday: shoulders and biceps
military press - 4 sets of 6-8 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
military press on smith machine - 3 sets of 6-8 (at least 2 mins of rest)
deltoid raises with 12.5kg and rubber pulls (super set 6-10 reps on each)

zbar curls - 3 sets of 8-10 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
isolation dumbell curls (dropdown weight) 15kg then 10kg (10 and 6 reps respectively)
machine curls using drop weights (10kg drop) 10 and 6 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)

fridays: back and stomach
lat pull downs - 6 sets of altering weight light --> heavy
chainsaws - 3 sets of 8 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
seated rows - 3 sets of 8 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
reverse situps (lower back) 3 sets of 8 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)

leg raises - 3 sets of 10 each side (straight, left and right)
crunches - normally 30 50 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
situp machine 20 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)


(week 2)

monday: chest& triceps
bench press - 5 sets of 10 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
incline press - 3 sets of 10 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
pec dec - 3 sets of 10 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
dips - 3 sets of maximum (only 1 minute of rest)

tricep pulldowns - 3 sets of dropdowns (10 the drop 10kg, perform another 6)
tricep extensions - 3 sets at 8-10 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
kickbacks - 3 sets of 6-8 reps (only 1 minute of rest)


wednesday: shoulders and biceps
military press - 4 sets of 10 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
military press on smith machine - 3 sets of 10 (only 1 minute of rest)
deltoid raises with 12.5kg and rubber pulls (super set 6-10 reps on each)

zbar curls - 3 sets of 8-10 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
isolation dumbell curls (dropdown weight) 15kg then 10kg (10 and 6 reps respectively) (only 1 minute of rest)
machine curls using drop weights (10kg drop) 10 and 6 reps (only 1 minute of rest)

fridays: back and stomach
lat pull downs - 6 sets of altering weight light --> heavy
chainsaws - 3 sets of 8 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
seated rows - 3 sets of 8 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
reverse situps (lower back) 3 sets of 8 reps (only 1 minute of rest)

leg raises - 3 sets of 10 each side (straight, left and right)
crunches - normally 30 50 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
situp machine 20 reps (only 1 minute of rest)

try to change it every 2/3 months, tell me what you guys think. p.s. i know i dont train legs but i also train kickboxing so dont want to build up my legs. thanks
 
sikdogg said:
It's a nice basic routine but i just don't like the idea of doing Squats and deadlifts during the same workout (much less back to back)... If you're truely doing heavy lifting, the second of the two will most likely suffer and can put you at risk of injury. When i'm done with squats, there's no way in hell i'm going to be able to do half my max weight on deads.... The only way i could do both on the same day is if i did one early morning and the other early evening.

You know I never really thought about that, but my deads would have to definitly be lacking since my legs are pretty worn out after squats. I try to keep the strictest form possible while doing deadlifts, and haven't gotten any injuries yet. Anyway the long waiting periods usually do help alot, but i find that my weights dont seem to be too off. I Deadlifted max (ironically I max my deads after doing my max squats) 500lbs, and I usually rep 450 about 4 times. And actually I find the hardest thing for me is my grip, I should definitly start using straps.
 
EVO said:
wow, you train bench press three times per week!? i was always told that its best to train it once per week (as with every muscle).
my workout goes like:

(week 1)

monday: chest& triceps
bench press - 5 sets of 5 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
incline press - 3 sets of 5 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
pec dec - 3 sets of 5 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
dips - 3 sets of maximum (at least 2 mins of rest)

tricep pulldowns - 3 sets of dropdowns (10 the drop 10kg, perform another 6)
tricep extensions - 3 sets at 6-8 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
kickbacks - 3 sets of 6-8 reps


wednesday: shoulders and biceps
military press - 4 sets of 6-8 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
military press on smith machine - 3 sets of 6-8 (at least 2 mins of rest)
deltoid raises with 12.5kg and rubber pulls (super set 6-10 reps on each)

zbar curls - 3 sets of 8-10 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
isolation dumbell curls (dropdown weight) 15kg then 10kg (10 and 6 reps respectively)
machine curls using drop weights (10kg drop) 10 and 6 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)

fridays: back and stomach
lat pull downs - 6 sets of altering weight light --> heavy
chainsaws - 3 sets of 8 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
seated rows - 3 sets of 8 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
reverse situps (lower back) 3 sets of 8 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)

leg raises - 3 sets of 10 each side (straight, left and right)
crunches - normally 30 50 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)
situp machine 20 reps (at least 2 mins of rest)


(week 2)

monday: chest& triceps
bench press - 5 sets of 10 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
incline press - 3 sets of 10 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
pec dec - 3 sets of 10 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
dips - 3 sets of maximum (only 1 minute of rest)

tricep pulldowns - 3 sets of dropdowns (10 the drop 10kg, perform another 6)
tricep extensions - 3 sets at 8-10 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
kickbacks - 3 sets of 6-8 reps (only 1 minute of rest)


wednesday: shoulders and biceps
military press - 4 sets of 10 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
military press on smith machine - 3 sets of 10 (only 1 minute of rest)
deltoid raises with 12.5kg and rubber pulls (super set 6-10 reps on each)

zbar curls - 3 sets of 8-10 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
isolation dumbell curls (dropdown weight) 15kg then 10kg (10 and 6 reps respectively) (only 1 minute of rest)
machine curls using drop weights (10kg drop) 10 and 6 reps (only 1 minute of rest)

fridays: back and stomach
lat pull downs - 6 sets of altering weight light --> heavy
chainsaws - 3 sets of 8 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
seated rows - 3 sets of 8 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
reverse situps (lower back) 3 sets of 8 reps (only 1 minute of rest)

leg raises - 3 sets of 10 each side (straight, left and right)
crunches - normally 30 50 reps (only 1 minute of rest)
situp machine 20 reps (only 1 minute of rest)

try to change it every 2/3 months, tell me what you guys think. p.s. i know i dont train legs but i also train kickboxing so dont want to build up my legs. thanks

I dont always traing the same body part 3 days a week, i cycle workouts. But to gain the most mass and strength, I've found dumbing it down and using a simple workout like this has worked best for me....Now when I am cutting thats different. And I honestly don't believe traing your legs, or chest or delts etc. once a day is ideal for size or strength gains. O and if you want to build quickness in your legs do powercleans and high rep and low rest periods for squats wouldn't hurt you either.
 
im2manly said:
Sound plan....I however have had alot of success doing things slightly differently. I have had the best results doing something along the following lines:

Monday and Wednesday
1. Bench Press- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets)
2. Squat- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets
3. Deadlifts- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets
4. Barbell Rows- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets)
5. Shrugs- 3 x 5 (~1.5min wait between sets)
6. Shoulder Press- 3 sets x 4-6 reps (~1.5 min wait between sets)
QUOTE]

Wow, you have an hour of rest in this workout, do you find your energy store is depleted by the time your half way done? Unfortunatly while i would love to hit chest/back 2x a week, my energy store goes way down if my session last more then 60-70 minutes.
 
supermanx said:
im2manly said:
Sound plan....I however have had alot of success doing things slightly differently. I have had the best results doing something along the following lines:

Monday and Wednesday
1. Bench Press- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets)
2. Squat- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets
3. Deadlifts- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets
4. Barbell Rows- 5 sets x 3-5 reps (~2.5 min wait between sets)
5. Shrugs- 3 x 5 (~1.5min wait between sets)
6. Shoulder Press- 3 sets x 4-6 reps (~1.5 min wait between sets)
QUOTE]

Wow, you have an hour of rest in this workout, do you find your energy store is depleted by the time your half way done? Unfortunatly while i would love to hit chest/back 2x a week, my energy store goes way down if my session last more then 60-70 minutes.

Actually I find I have more energy then When I have low rest peroids. Besides my lifting workout last only about a hour and a half.
 
Actually new studies have shown that shorter resting periods result in more strength gains. I do about 90 to 120 minutes of rest between sets. But it is important what everyone feels to be right for him/her.

@Evo:
If you will decide someday that your training is not working good enough for you anymore start going back to simpler routines with less exercises.

You called the system I explained dumbed down which it is; but only to a certain degree. The simpler training allows one to progress in the major exercises and to stress and stimulate the body by increasing weights only instead of doing that by having different exercises.

This simpler routines are shorter to get through and you do not "dillute" you focus on too many exercises.

I like to say: Do less things better than many things in average manner. At least that counts for gaining muscles.

This training also works for intermediates or highly developed people. After a couple of months of training cycling comes into play which I even have not yet done.

Cycling is very effective because it allows you to get through different repetion styles and get the body prepared for a new big jump in weights and size.

To get this all organized you have to train diligently, with good form, with high intensity (bigger weights), eat well and rest enough. And all this while not loosing sight of your non-training life, which should not suffer through training. Vice versa you have to be able to suit your training that way that it fits the time you want/can spent in the gym.

That are the real challenges!
 
BigFish said:
...I do about 90 to 120 minutes of rest between sets....
OK, at that rate... It would take all day to work out just one bodypart...
 
BigFish said:
Actually new studies have shown that shorter resting periods result in more strength gains. I do about 90 to 120 minutes of rest between sets. But it is important what everyone feels to be right for him/her.

@Evo:
If you will decide someday that your training is not working good enough for you anymore start going back to simpler routines with less exercises.

You called the system I explained dumbed down which it is; but only to a certain degree. The simpler training allows one to progress in the major exercises and to stress and stimulate the body by increasing weights only instead of doing that by having different exercises.

This simpler routines are shorter to get through and you do not "dillute" you focus on too many exercises.

I like to say: Do less things better than many things in average manner. At least that counts for gaining muscles.

This training also works for intermediates or highly developed people. After a couple of months of training cycling comes into play which I even have not yet done.

Cycling is very effective because it allows you to get through different repetion styles and get the body prepared for a new big jump in weights and size.

To get this all organized you have to train diligently, with good form, with high intensity (bigger weights), eat well and rest enough. And all this while not loosing sight of your non-training life, which should not suffer through training. Vice versa you have to be able to suit your training that way that it fits the time you want/can spent in the gym.

That are the real challenges!

Well actually I heard that longer wait peroids give the muscles time to heal up and reduce lactic acid build up, this way you can push your muscles longer.

I said my routine was simple and dumbed down, not yours...In fact I dont think i could make my routine any more simple.

Lol and i dont do too many exercises I do like 6, for the major muscles.

I like to think I do alright for myself using my workout schemes. Im 19, never juiced or taken any supps other then whey, and I lift as such (just the big 3): Deads- 500, Squat- never maxed but did 550 x 3 ATF, and Bench-415. To be honest I havent lifted in a month and a half, due to shoulder injuries, so those numbers have to be down. Either way I got you're basic point, I just sometimes feel people make it so much more complicated then it really has to be.
 
Well I am not exactly counting the seconds because it depends how hard the set was. I need longer pauses between to deadlifting sets and shorter ones when I train my calves.
But I try to rest no longer than 120 secs between sets but that is how I train.

@I am 2 manly:
No offence. You have certainly more training experience than me but I think your routine could be much simpler. As long as you make gains and satisfied with your workout there is nothing wrong about it. But what I see in this training that you divide your energy over many, many different exercises. Instead of doing three exercises for the chest you could only use dips or benchpresses but try to increase the weight every second workout by one or two pounds. That alone can be very challenging and is not undertraining you for certain as long as you progress with your weights.
You could also use the "doggcrap"-like plan that has you change the exercise every time when you're stuck at a fixed weight (plateau).

Do you get my point? You can go as far or perhaps further by dumbing down your training.
 
BigFish said:
Well I am not exactly counting the seconds because it depends how hard the set was. I need longer pauses between to deadlifting sets and shorter ones when I train my calves.
But I try to rest no longer than 120 secs between sets but that is how I train.

@I am 2 manly:
No offence. You have certainly more training experience than me but I think your routine could be much simpler. As long as you make gains and satisfied with your workout there is nothing wrong about it. But what I see in this training that you divide your energy over many, many different exercises. Instead of doing three exercises for the chest you could only use dips or benchpresses but try to increase the weight every second workout by one or two pounds. That alone can be very challenging and is not undertraining you for certain as long as you progress with your weights.
You could also use the "doggcrap"-like plan that has you change the exercise every time when you're stuck at a fixed weight (plateau).

Do you get my point? You can go as far or perhaps further by dumbing down your training.

the workout you posted is alot less simpler then the on i posted, im sure everyone will agree.
 
I'm not lifting anymore but when I did I always did a 6-day split. Best for mass in my opinion.
 
Well actually Iam2manly I did mistake you for evo! Sorry I do not know what has happened.
Although I am stunned at the volume of training you can cope with. Four sets of squats is amazing. I am almost done after just two sets.

@swolejah:
If this routine worked good for you fine but keep in mind that you have certain genetics that allow you to grow on that plan. If the normal training principles that are done by about 90 per cent of the trainees would work good for everyone about anybody would look like freaking Arnold.
What I mean is that you may respond well to this training while others (90 per cent) simply cant.
You would also have made very good or even better progress with this program because it can be suited to anyone.

@evo:
Everything I said for Iam2manly counts for you right now! You are dividing your training energy over too many exercises and so wasting a lot of your training time. Cut your training down to the core exercises and you will also make progress as long as your increase your training weights regularly and do not rep out to failure!
 
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I might try it sometime in the near future once I'm done with bootcamp and stationed somewhere where there's a facility.
 
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