S curve, bump, inner penis, etc.
Thanks Bib for the new drawings,very informatively.
What are you defining as an s-curve?Is it a curve with a high angle for example 70 degree or something like this(like in the first picture) or has every person an s-curve no matter how high the angle of the s-curve is(like in the second picture)?
Im asking me right now if an high s-curve indicates a high erection level and if a high erection level indicates an high s-curve.
What is your opinion about this?
When you have s-curve with an high angle it indicates great lig potential when im following your theory the right way. So you are going to do lig work for example by btc hanging. When you are hanging this way your erection level will drop, a lot of people inclusively you bib reported this.
So the result is:
1.the s-curve is away.It is outside the body now expressed by lig gains.
2.the erection level is also decreased.
So the conclusion is:A high s-curve indicates a good potential for lig gains and a high erection level(because people like you reported it)
Can you also say that a high erection level indicates good lig potential?
What is your opinion about this.I remember that you had a very high erection level when you started hanging.
What are you defining as an s-curve?Is it a curve with a high angle for example 70 degree or something like this(like in the first picture) or has every person an s-curve no matter how high the angle of the s-curve is(like in the second picture)?
Im asking me right now if an high s-curve indicates a high erection level and if a high erection level indicates an high s-curve.
What is your opinion about this?
When you have s-curve with an high angle it indicates great lig potential when im following your theory the right way. So you are going to do lig work for example by btc hanging. When you are hanging this way your erection level will drop, a lot of people inclusively you bib reported this.
So the result is:
1.the s-curve is away.It is outside the body now expressed by lig gains.
2.the erection level is also decreased.
So the conclusion is:A high s-curve indicates a good potential for lig gains and a high erection level(because people like you reported it)
Can you also say that a high erection level indicates good lig potential?
What is your opinion about this.I remember that you had a very high erection level when you started hanging.
Dex,
>What are you defining as an s-curve?Is it a curve with a high angle for example 70 degree or something like this(like in the first picture) or has every person an s-curve no matter how high the angle of the s-curve is(like in the second picture)?<
An S curve is a curve that makes an S. Not every guy has this. Many hung guys come straight out, almost from the anus, and exit the skin, with the shaft never turning up whatsoever.
>Im asking me right now if an high s-curve indicates a high erection level and if a high erection level indicates an high s-curve.
What is your opinion about this?<
No. It seems the shape of the tunica indicates erection angle more than anything. I am sure for many guys, the tightness of the ligs does affect erection angle, but that is not the only factor.
>When you have s-curve with an high angle it indicates great lig potential when im following your theory the right way. So you are going to do lig work for example by btc hanging. When you are hanging this way your erection level will drop, a lot of people inclusively you bib reported this.<
To an extent. But my statistical work with the LOT theory did not indicate a great correlation between LOT and erection angle.
My erection angle dropped from 12 to 9 over my Penis Enlargement career. But much of this was due, I believe, to an increase in weight of the shaft, further from the body.
>Imagine you have an high s-curve.You are hanging btc and the s-curve decreases to a normal status.Is it possible to get back the s-curve by ots hanging and tunica work.Can you rebuilt the s-curve by inner shaft growth?<
Yes, I do not think there is any doubt about this. When hanging OTS, you stress the entire tunica, all the way to the inner anchor points. The area of the shaft from the pubic bone, to the bulbs, is stressed, and will grow, and therefore give additional potential for gains from lig stretch.
Bigger
>What are you defining as an s-curve?Is it a curve with a high angle for example 70 degree or something like this(like in the first picture) or has every person an s-curve no matter how high the angle of the s-curve is(like in the second picture)?<
An S curve is a curve that makes an S. Not every guy has this. Many hung guys come straight out, almost from the anus, and exit the skin, with the shaft never turning up whatsoever.
>Im asking me right now if an high s-curve indicates a high erection level and if a high erection level indicates an high s-curve.
What is your opinion about this?<
No. It seems the shape of the tunica indicates erection angle more than anything. I am sure for many guys, the tightness of the ligs does affect erection angle, but that is not the only factor.
>When you have s-curve with an high angle it indicates great lig potential when im following your theory the right way. So you are going to do lig work for example by btc hanging. When you are hanging this way your erection level will drop, a lot of people inclusively you bib reported this.<
To an extent. But my statistical work with the LOT theory did not indicate a great correlation between LOT and erection angle.
My erection angle dropped from 12 to 9 over my Penis Enlargement career. But much of this was due, I believe, to an increase in weight of the shaft, further from the body.
>Imagine you have an high s-curve.You are hanging btc and the s-curve decreases to a normal status.Is it possible to get back the s-curve by ots hanging and tunica work.Can you rebuilt the s-curve by inner shaft growth?<
Yes, I do not think there is any doubt about this. When hanging OTS, you stress the entire tunica, all the way to the inner anchor points. The area of the shaft from the pubic bone, to the bulbs, is stressed, and will grow, and therefore give additional potential for gains from lig stretch.
Bigger
Awesome pics Bib - I think I finally understand LOT!!! I'm a visual learner lol.
Very good explanation. Similar to surgery, but everything stays in tact. Same length potential, different feel.
Bib, does the visual way a flacid penis hangs possibly show lig position? Like in the pics the tighter higher lot pics, the penis hangs higher more straight out.
Bib, does the visual way a flacid penis hangs possibly show lig position? Like in the pics the tighter higher lot pics, the penis hangs higher more straight out.
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I know for sure my S curve is very much a large S. I felt around in there the past few days and I could feel that my penis exits high and then enters my body almost like at the hilltop as it were. Sucks, but I figure if I can hang about 16-18 hours a week from now on for the rest of the year I'll have made some kind of gains in length.
BTC,
>Bib, does the visual way a flacid penis hangs possibly show lig position? Like in the pics the tighter higher lot pics, the penis hangs higher more straight out.<
Yes, but of course, it is all relative. A guy may have a really large unit, with a high exit point, and still a lot of outer penis, and thus a good hang. So, the amount of hang is dependent on a couple of variables. But in general, the higher the exit point, the less hang.
The third test described lately; taking a nude frontal pic, or looking in a mirror, tracing down the groinal grooves to find the bottom of the pubic bone, and therefore the lowest possible exit point, and compare that to the actual exit point.
Bigger
>Bib, does the visual way a flacid penis hangs possibly show lig position? Like in the pics the tighter higher lot pics, the penis hangs higher more straight out.<
Yes, but of course, it is all relative. A guy may have a really large unit, with a high exit point, and still a lot of outer penis, and thus a good hang. So, the amount of hang is dependent on a couple of variables. But in general, the higher the exit point, the less hang.
The third test described lately; taking a nude frontal pic, or looking in a mirror, tracing down the groinal grooves to find the bottom of the pubic bone, and therefore the lowest possible exit point, and compare that to the actual exit point.
Bigger
Bib said:
What do you think? I've had pubic lipo, and you can see the contours pretty well in this pic. Lately I've been able to reach in the pelvic area and feel the s curve and what's keeping it from a more straight position. Exciting. I want what DLD has crazy length.
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BTC,
First, I don't think you can post nuce pics in this section. But I do not know what to do about it.
The pic is from the side, and I can only see your left groinal groove. But there appears to be no doubt that you have a high exit point. Most is not all of your scrotum appears to be above the estimated point of the convergence of the groinal grooves.
Work the lower angles.
Bigger
First, I don't think you can post nuce pics in this section. But I do not know what to do about it.
The pic is from the side, and I can only see your left groinal groove. But there appears to be no doubt that you have a high exit point. Most is not all of your scrotum appears to be above the estimated point of the convergence of the groinal grooves.
Work the lower angles.
Bigger
Bib said:
Do you realy think its possible to get back an s-curve?
Im asking because when you are hanging downward, you are hitting the ligs and you are lowering your exit point. May be you are lowering your exit point so far, that your new exit point is close to the end of the pubic bone. If you do so, there is no more way to gain from lig stretching according to the "palpation" test. Now you have to concentrate on tunica work if you want to gain more.
And here is my point:When you stretch the tunica and get back the s-curve, your exit point has to raise again, if not, you have no space to hide the "new" s-curve under the arch of your pubic bone. The exit point has to raise in your theory, if it doesnt, the s-curve wouldnt have space when the exit point is still close to end or the end of the pubic bone.
I hope you got me.
I cant imagine that it is possible to raise the penis exit point i only can imagine that its possible to lower the exit point.
dex,
>Do you realy think its possible to get back an s-curve?<
Yes, it is sometimes called the see-saw effect. It is not a situation where the S curve returns to it's original status. That would be impossible. But you can stretch/grow the true inner penis, from the pubic bone to the anchor points, which tends to push the outer penis up, which is still hung from the ligs. Then, when the ligs are further stressed at a later point, the shaft is further pulled out and down.
>Im asking because when you are hanging downward, you are hitting the ligs and you are lowering your exit point. May be you are lowering your exit point so far, that your new exit point is close to the end of the pubic bone. If you do so, there is no more way to gain from lig stretching according to the "palpation" test. Now you have to concentrate on tunica work if you want to gain more.<
All true.
>And here is my point:When you stretch the tunica and get back the s-curve, your exit point has to raise again, if not, you have no space to hide the "new" s-curve under the arch of your pubic bone. The exit point has to raise in your theory, if it doesnt, the s-curve wouldnt have space when the exit point is still close to end or the end of the pubic bone.<
The exit point may or may not truly rise. But the angle of the shaft will rise as you gain extra inner penis. This process is not as dramatic as the first gains from lig stretch. It is slower and more tedious.
Good points.
Bigger
>Do you realy think its possible to get back an s-curve?<
Yes, it is sometimes called the see-saw effect. It is not a situation where the S curve returns to it's original status. That would be impossible. But you can stretch/grow the true inner penis, from the pubic bone to the anchor points, which tends to push the outer penis up, which is still hung from the ligs. Then, when the ligs are further stressed at a later point, the shaft is further pulled out and down.
>Im asking because when you are hanging downward, you are hitting the ligs and you are lowering your exit point. May be you are lowering your exit point so far, that your new exit point is close to the end of the pubic bone. If you do so, there is no more way to gain from lig stretching according to the "palpation" test. Now you have to concentrate on tunica work if you want to gain more.<
All true.
>And here is my point:When you stretch the tunica and get back the s-curve, your exit point has to raise again, if not, you have no space to hide the "new" s-curve under the arch of your pubic bone. The exit point has to raise in your theory, if it doesnt, the s-curve wouldnt have space when the exit point is still close to end or the end of the pubic bone.<
The exit point may or may not truly rise. But the angle of the shaft will rise as you gain extra inner penis. This process is not as dramatic as the first gains from lig stretch. It is slower and more tedious.
Good points.
Bigger
@Bib,
in which position, standing or sitting, can you feel/palpate the s-curve the best?
Do you think the following case is possible?
A guy has an s-curve(1). I do not define an s-curve here like in your drawings, i define it here like you said before:
"Many hung guys come straight out, almost from the anus, and exit the skin, with the shaft never turning up whatsoever."
So s-curve means, the shaft is not coming straight out from the anus!
The guy has also an high exit point(2), which means that the first cm of his shaft is parallel to the floor!
The guy did also perform the palpation test, and this test indicates him, that he can gain by lig stretching(3).
The last test he performs is the LOT test. The LOT test indicates him a low LOT, lets say 7-8.
Do you think this constellation is possible? I hope i defined the tests like you did before, if not, please correct me!
in which position, standing or sitting, can you feel/palpate the s-curve the best?
Do you think the following case is possible?
A guy has an s-curve(1). I do not define an s-curve here like in your drawings, i define it here like you said before:
"Many hung guys come straight out, almost from the anus, and exit the skin, with the shaft never turning up whatsoever."
So s-curve means, the shaft is not coming straight out from the anus!
The guy has also an high exit point(2), which means that the first cm of his shaft is parallel to the floor!
The guy did also perform the palpation test, and this test indicates him, that he can gain by lig stretching(3).
The last test he performs is the LOT test. The LOT test indicates him a low LOT, lets say 7-8.
Do you think this constellation is possible? I hope i defined the tests like you did before, if not, please correct me!
dex,
>in which position, standing or sitting, can you feel/palpate the s-curve the best?<
For me, I would say sitting. But, it is rather difficult to palpate, and imagine the S-curve. If the shaft is attached up the face of the pubic bone, then you have an S-curve.
>So s-curve means, the shaft is not coming straight out from the anus!<
Correct, in the flaccid state.
>The guy has also an high exit point(2), which means that the first cm of his shaft is parallel to the floor!
The guy did also perform the palpation test, and this test indicates him, that he can gain by lig stretching(3).
The last test he performs is the LOT test. The LOT test indicates him a low LOT, lets say 7-8.
Do you think this constellation is possible? I hope i defined the tests like you did before, if not, please correct me!<
Yes, that would be possible, if the pubic bone had a more horizontal tilt, rather than vertical.
That is one bad thing about the LOT test. The tilt of the pelvis, how you are standing or sitting, affects the angle of the pubic bone, which then affects the reading of the test on the clock. If you can palpate the pubic bone, and keep it in a fairly horizontal position, you can get an accurate reading on LOT.
Bigger
>in which position, standing or sitting, can you feel/palpate the s-curve the best?<
For me, I would say sitting. But, it is rather difficult to palpate, and imagine the S-curve. If the shaft is attached up the face of the pubic bone, then you have an S-curve.
>So s-curve means, the shaft is not coming straight out from the anus!<
Correct, in the flaccid state.
>The guy has also an high exit point(2), which means that the first cm of his shaft is parallel to the floor!
The guy did also perform the palpation test, and this test indicates him, that he can gain by lig stretching(3).
The last test he performs is the LOT test. The LOT test indicates him a low LOT, lets say 7-8.
Do you think this constellation is possible? I hope i defined the tests like you did before, if not, please correct me!<
Yes, that would be possible, if the pubic bone had a more horizontal tilt, rather than vertical.
That is one bad thing about the LOT test. The tilt of the pelvis, how you are standing or sitting, affects the angle of the pubic bone, which then affects the reading of the test on the clock. If you can palpate the pubic bone, and keep it in a fairly horizontal position, you can get an accurate reading on LOT.
Bigger
Bib said:
to 1.:
Im to 90 percent sure that i have an s-curve. When saying this, i follow your definition. In a flaccid state my penis is not coming out right from the anus. My shaft comes out from the anus and curves up to the top of my pubic bone. My top ligaments are holding the shaft to the top of my pubic bone.
It seems, that the ligament on top of my penis, connects directly to the top of my pubic bone. When im stretching my penis out (flaccid state), i can follow the top lig/tendon the best.It connects to the top of the pubic bone,it sits directly on the edge or may be direct unter the edge, cant say this for sure.
If this are really my ligs, i can not imagine that it is possible that they attach higher to my pubic bone.
Is it possible to find/palpate the ligs? I found a lot of tendons around the the top of my pubic bone. They are holding the shaft. I interprete this tendons as ligs,hope this is right.
The top tendon/lig i was describing, is the easiest to find, because it is the bigest and thickest, so it is easy to find and to palpate.
to 2.:
"If you can palpate the pubic bone, and keep it in a fairly horizontal position, you can get an accurate reading on LOT."
How can i do this? I do not understand this. When im doing the LOT test, i do this in a standing position like you always said.
Actually im not so sure, if my pubic bone is so horizontal. I do not know how to measure it and which part of the pubic bone is more important. It seems, when im palpating, that in the first part, my shaft goes down, lets say 70 degree, and then goes into "the cave part", which is more horizontal, may be 30 degree. Im really not sure if my measurements are right and how long (cm)the 2 parts are.
dex,
>Im to 90 percent sure that i have an s-curve. When saying this, i follow your definition. In a flaccid state my penis is not coming out right from the anus. My shaft comes out from the anus and curves up to the top of my pubic bone. My top ligaments are holding the shaft to the top of my pubic bone.<
It appears you understand.
>Is it possible to find/palpate the ligs? I found a lot of tendons around the the top of my pubic bone. They are holding the shaft. I interprete this tendons as ligs,hope this is right.<
Yes. Simply stretch out with one hand, while grasping through the skin at the base with the other. Between the thumb and forefinger, you can probably 'pluck' the lig bundles, actually feel the strands, unless of course the ligs are very tight.
>How can i do this? I do not understand this. When im doing the LOT test, i do this in a standing position like you always said.<
I believe you understand what is going on. If you can find the bottom of the pubic bone, and you know the exit point, you have a good idea of your potential for gains from lig stretch.
>Actually im not so sure, if my pubic bone is so horizontal. I do not know how to measure it and which part of the pubic bone is more important. It seems, when im palpating, that in the first part, my shaft goes down, lets say 70 degree, and then goes into "the cave part", which is more horizontal, may be 30 degree. Im really not sure if my measurements are right and how long (cm)the 2 parts are.<
I don't understand what you wrote. I think you are dwelling on this a bit too much. Hopefully, you understand enough to know your lig potential.
Bigger
>Im to 90 percent sure that i have an s-curve. When saying this, i follow your definition. In a flaccid state my penis is not coming out right from the anus. My shaft comes out from the anus and curves up to the top of my pubic bone. My top ligaments are holding the shaft to the top of my pubic bone.<
It appears you understand.
>Is it possible to find/palpate the ligs? I found a lot of tendons around the the top of my pubic bone. They are holding the shaft. I interprete this tendons as ligs,hope this is right.<
Yes. Simply stretch out with one hand, while grasping through the skin at the base with the other. Between the thumb and forefinger, you can probably 'pluck' the lig bundles, actually feel the strands, unless of course the ligs are very tight.
>How can i do this? I do not understand this. When im doing the LOT test, i do this in a standing position like you always said.<
I believe you understand what is going on. If you can find the bottom of the pubic bone, and you know the exit point, you have a good idea of your potential for gains from lig stretch.
>Actually im not so sure, if my pubic bone is so horizontal. I do not know how to measure it and which part of the pubic bone is more important. It seems, when im palpating, that in the first part, my shaft goes down, lets say 70 degree, and then goes into "the cave part", which is more horizontal, may be 30 degree. Im really not sure if my measurements are right and how long (cm)the 2 parts are.<
I don't understand what you wrote. I think you are dwelling on this a bit too much. Hopefully, you understand enough to know your lig potential.
Bigger
Ive been out of the "sport" for about 5 months or so. I must say this is the most visually intriguing post Ive seen. Excellent work Master Bib.
Ive been at this for a year and a half now with 2 extended breaks in the mix,4 months and 5 months respectively. During my year and a half Ive gained 1" and am once again gung-ho. I believe Ive gained the size in the following way.
3/8- 1/2" from jelqing and hand stretches.
1/4-3/8 hanging SD.
And honestly probably 1/8 in superior measuring technique
I firmly believe in taking scheduled breaks but wont delve into that here.
My question is this: Ive been hanging SD the last 2- 30 day cycles Ive tried. The first time yielded some gains probably a little better than 1/8" the second cycle little or nothing. What Ive discovered is that If I lean forward from the waist at about 45 Degrees I get a very strong sensation at the attachment point deep in the body(in your diagram,where it says flex). Instinctively and I believe according to what your saying here SO would be correct for me. My lot situation is somewhat strange From everything Ive read. When I began this hobby of ours I did my lot and It was about 9:00 . I havent done it since and am now as of today at 11:30. This doesnt make sense to me, although I like the idea If theory follows and I can get some more gains by hanging SO for awhile.
Any thoughts are appeciated.
RR
Ive been at this for a year and a half now with 2 extended breaks in the mix,4 months and 5 months respectively. During my year and a half Ive gained 1" and am once again gung-ho. I believe Ive gained the size in the following way.
3/8- 1/2" from jelqing and hand stretches.
1/4-3/8 hanging SD.
And honestly probably 1/8 in superior measuring technique
I firmly believe in taking scheduled breaks but wont delve into that here.
My question is this: Ive been hanging SD the last 2- 30 day cycles Ive tried. The first time yielded some gains probably a little better than 1/8" the second cycle little or nothing. What Ive discovered is that If I lean forward from the waist at about 45 Degrees I get a very strong sensation at the attachment point deep in the body(in your diagram,where it says flex). Instinctively and I believe according to what your saying here SO would be correct for me. My lot situation is somewhat strange From everything Ive read. When I began this hobby of ours I did my lot and It was about 9:00 . I havent done it since and am now as of today at 11:30. This doesnt make sense to me, although I like the idea If theory follows and I can get some more gains by hanging SO for awhile.
Any thoughts are appeciated.
RR
Bib, please disregard the question from my last thread. I did something I hate seeing, and that is to ask question before researching. I did my LOT evaluation backwards-starting from the bottom and then looking for loss of tugback. thats why I was good to 12. My LOT is around 8:30-9:00. For that Ill keep hanging SD and retry BTC.
So my new question is this. Im doing SD right now 20 mins with about 25Lbs. Would you see value adding a second set that emphasised attacking the ligs more unilaterally? Through experimentation Ive found that lifting one leg adds great deal of stress to the same ligament. The load is clearly being shifted and therefore greater stress on the worked lig. My thinking is adding a second 20 min set with 10 mins on each lig.
The alternative would be a second set in the 45degree lean I mentioned in my previous thread. While this does not work perfectly woth the lot theory, I do get a strong stretch through the inner penis all the way through to the attachment point.
I guess I could mix the two routines but I think time under load is pretty important.
Your thoughts Please.
Thanks
RR
P.S.Love my Bib starter!!
So my new question is this. Im doing SD right now 20 mins with about 25Lbs. Would you see value adding a second set that emphasised attacking the ligs more unilaterally? Through experimentation Ive found that lifting one leg adds great deal of stress to the same ligament. The load is clearly being shifted and therefore greater stress on the worked lig. My thinking is adding a second 20 min set with 10 mins on each lig.
The alternative would be a second set in the 45degree lean I mentioned in my previous thread. While this does not work perfectly woth the lot theory, I do get a strong stretch through the inner penis all the way through to the attachment point.
I guess I could mix the two routines but I think time under load is pretty important.
Your thoughts Please.
Thanks
RR
P.S.Love my Bib starter!!
RR,
>So my new question is this. Im doing SD right now 20 mins with about 25Lbs. Would you see value adding a second set that emphasised attacking the ligs more unilaterally? Through experimentation Ive found that lifting one leg adds great deal of stress to the same ligament. The load is clearly being shifted and therefore greater stress on the worked lig. My thinking is adding a second 20 min set with 10 mins on each lig.<
I assume you are doing Dash's hardcore routine, limiting the number of sets? I really have no experience with this technique. As you probably know, I did the all day hanging thing. IMO, up to a point, I believe adding sets helps. I recommend reaching fatigue as quickly as possible, and then hanging in the fatigued state, at reduced weights.
Lifting one leg, etc, does shift the load to different tissue sets. However, I recommend that you concentrate on tissue sets in a dedicated fashion, weeks and months, not sets, sessions, or days.
>The alternative would be a second set in the 45degree lean I mentioned in my previous thread. While this does not work perfectly woth the lot theory, I do get a strong stretch through the inner penis all the way through to the attachment point.<
I assume this position would essentially give you a straight out stretch. I am sure you know there are more comfortable ways of doing this. For SO, I always hung while seated, with the skids of the hanger close to the front edge of the chair, and the strap and weights over the edge. Allow for friction.
With a 9:30 LOT, I would recommend you work at the lower angles, especially BTC, going for lig stretch, and attempting to realize gains from pulling out inner penis.
Bigger
>So my new question is this. Im doing SD right now 20 mins with about 25Lbs. Would you see value adding a second set that emphasised attacking the ligs more unilaterally? Through experimentation Ive found that lifting one leg adds great deal of stress to the same ligament. The load is clearly being shifted and therefore greater stress on the worked lig. My thinking is adding a second 20 min set with 10 mins on each lig.<
I assume you are doing Dash's hardcore routine, limiting the number of sets? I really have no experience with this technique. As you probably know, I did the all day hanging thing. IMO, up to a point, I believe adding sets helps. I recommend reaching fatigue as quickly as possible, and then hanging in the fatigued state, at reduced weights.
Lifting one leg, etc, does shift the load to different tissue sets. However, I recommend that you concentrate on tissue sets in a dedicated fashion, weeks and months, not sets, sessions, or days.
>The alternative would be a second set in the 45degree lean I mentioned in my previous thread. While this does not work perfectly woth the lot theory, I do get a strong stretch through the inner penis all the way through to the attachment point.<
I assume this position would essentially give you a straight out stretch. I am sure you know there are more comfortable ways of doing this. For SO, I always hung while seated, with the skids of the hanger close to the front edge of the chair, and the strap and weights over the edge. Allow for friction.
With a 9:30 LOT, I would recommend you work at the lower angles, especially BTC, going for lig stretch, and attempting to realize gains from pulling out inner penis.
Bigger