I saw this at another forum, and was interested because it is a TED talk. These are always thought provoking to me. I'm hoping to get some conversation with regards to bundled stretches after you see this biologists view of the tunica at the microscopic level : https://youtu.be/u7SWcQaoaRQ
A Biologists study of the Penis
Here is a copy of the literature which follows this TED video well. I'm more interested in the structure of the tunica in its flacid and erect states. https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...TJbsOQ&usg=AFQjCNErW8DS4VBex_IKsG1Va1JNRVbGKg
MoreThanLuck;664969 said:
Thank You. I just got through the entire study and wanted to speak on a few points that directly relate to how we gain. As I said in many other studies the Tunica is very dense with an elasticity of about 5%, making it a very important topic of modern PE. Here are some of the more interesting points of the study an my reaction.
the tunica albuginea is made up mostly of thick bundles of type I collagen fibers and a small amount of elastin, although they do not measure the relative percentages of these fiber types in the tissue. Flaccid human and dog corpora also contain highly crimped collagen fibers and lose much of the crimp upon erection.
In the flaccid state the Tunica folds into a thicker flaccid state. This "crimping" is dispelled upon erection when the Tunica enlarges to its maximum size. In becoming erect the same Tunica tissue becomes much thinner than it was in flaccid state. (in erect state the Tunica becomes 43% thinner) This tells us that a.) it is vital to remain extended when flaccid as much as possible. Since the Tunica is thickest in flaccid state long periods of moderate stretching will be best in breaking down the tissue. Pre-stretching the Tunica before all training by using Bundled stretches becomes very important. In erect state, when the Tunica is thinner, we can take advantage of this through Erect Twists and other erect exercises.
In the outer layer, the fibers are arranged parallel to the long axis of the penis. In the inner layer, the fibers run circumferentially around the corpus cavernosum, perpendicu- lar to the long axis of the penis. Fibers at the transition between the outer and inner layers show a lower degree of preferred orienta- tion; this thin layer (Table 1) contains fibers randomly arranged in a single plane.
Understanding this we can see that the Tunica has dense tissue running in parallel and horizontal, much like a woven cloth. In this case my assertions years ago when I created Bundled Stretches was correct. I made the assimilation to a wet towel that is being wrung out by twisting and pulling on it to allow the water to be released. After doing this for some time the towel becomes longer and wider. This is what I realized all those years ago and amazingly this article proves that.
Measurements from transverse and para- sagittal sections of tunica albuginea show that in erect corpora the outer layer is 43% thinner than in flaccid corpora; the inner layer is 36% thinner in erect corpora. Fibers in both layers have diameters of 32.8 (2.05) μm, n 5 10 measurements for each layer. Mechanical behavior of the corpus cavernosum during erection: The effect of folding and crimping.
Changes in penile dimensions during erection are brought about exclusively through the macroscopic unfolding of the tissue and the straightening of crimped collagen fibers as the corpus cavernosum fills with blood. The folded tissue and crimped fibers allow the corpus cavernosum to expand simulta- neously in length and width during erection; fibers in the thin transition layer may bind the highly organized outer and inner layers together and accommodate shear strains be- tween the layers as the corpus changes its shape and size. But the axial orthogonal fiber array gives the tunica albuginea a mechanism for stop- ping its shape change once it approaches its maximum volume. Hydrostats reinforced by crossed-helical arrays of fibers can still change their dimensions when their fibers are fully extended by changing the angle the fibers make with the long axis of the struc- ture (Clark and Cowey, ’58; Wainwright, ’88). For example, a short and fat crossed-helical hydrostat with a fiber angle close to 90° can increase its internal volume and become longer and thinner because its reinforcing fibers reorient, reducing their fiber angle toward 55° (Clark and Cowey, ’58). In con- trast, the parallel and perpendicular ar- rangement of collagen fibers to the long axis of the corpus cavernosum means that once the fibers are fully extended any further increases in intracavernosal volume will place them in tension. The axial orthogonal array will therefore prevent further changes in the length and girth of the corpus caverno- sum, giving it a reproducible maximum erect size.
So to dumb this down a bit in erect state there is a predetermined stopping point that limits the erection to it's maximum size determined exclusively by the Tunica. What we should take from this is that Flaccid Bundled Stretching, Erect Stretching and Erect Twists will be the most important exercises in deforming the Tunica. This is not so much a huge new discovery more of a huge discovery that has not been tapped into until [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?64036-My-Best-Work-Ever-Penis-Enlargement-will-Be-Changed-Forever-gt-gt-Gain%20inches%20with%20SRT-Theory-and-Routine]SRT[/words] came out with the newest studies. It brings great support to our theories and brings them closer to laws.
The axial orthogonal array gives the erect corpus cavernosum the ability to resist ten- sile and compressive forces. Because venous outflow is restricted through the corpus cav- ernosum when it is erect (Hanyu et al., ’87; Andersson and Wagner, ’95), it remains at constant volume throughout copulation. So forces on the end of the erect penis that would tend to telescope its length and in- crease its girth are directly opposed by the high tensile modulus of the circumferential collagen fibers. Similarly, compressive forces from the vulvar musculature that would tend to extend the erect penis are directly op- posed by the longitudinal collagen fibers. Therefore, the array gives the erect corpus cavernosum a fixed shape.
At first read it may seem discouraging but it truly isn't. The fixed size will remain at it's maximum size and as the study reflects changing this is difficult but we already know this so why do we even care about this? Read on.
The axial orthogonal fiber array is also the collagen fiber arrangement that gives maxi- mum flexural stiffness (Koehl et al., ’95). In an erect corpus cavernosum, bending forces put the longitudinal collagen fibers on one side of the array directly into tension. Bend- ing experiments with inflatable models sup- ported by fiber arrays have shown that cylin- ders supported by axial orthogonal arrays have a higher flexural stiffness than those supported by crossed-helical arrays (Koehl et al., ’95). However, collagen fibers do not resist compressive forces well, so large bending forces will tend to make the structure fail on the side under compression, giving the penis a sharp kink. Penile kinking has been observed in copulating dogs (Grandage, ’72) and rhinoceros (Fish, personal communi- cation).
Three- dimensional folds and crimped collagen in the flaccid tissue allow the corpus caverno- sum to expand during erection; the axial orthogonal array stops the expansion at a repeatable maximum size.
Now we can see the full spectrum of this study and how it directly relates to our own conclusions found in [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?64036-My-Best-Work-Ever-Penis-Enlargement-will-Be-Changed-Forever-gt-gt-Gain%20inches%20with%20SRT-Theory-and-Routine]SRT[/words] (among other studies/routines that employ [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?64036-My-Best-Work-Ever-Penis-Enlargement-will-Be-Changed-Forever-gt-gt-Gain%20inches%20with%20SRT-Theory-and-Routine]SRT[/words] practices.) The part I underlined brings great support to the entire [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?64036-My-Best-Work-Ever-Penis-Enlargement-will-Be-Changed-Forever-gt-gt-Gain%20inches%20with%20SRT-Theory-and-Routine]SRT[/words] study.
I truly appreciate this MoreThanLuck, It really brings a great deal of support to [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?64036-My-Best-Work-Ever-Penis-Enlargement-will-Be-Changed-Forever-gt-gt-Gain%20inches%20with%20SRT-Theory-and-Routine]SRT[/words] and the work all of us have put into it.
doublelongdaddy;664984 said:
You are more than welcome. I believe there is an optimal way of doing things. Coming into PE as a beginner is cumbersome. I know myself, like many other individuals started this journey because our wives or girlfriends said something or we decided to dig for too much information. For myself, after I went through the first 4 stages of grief, I never accepted that I couldn't do anything about it. I'm an engineer for god sakes! I can do anything and have proven it to myself over and over again. I just need to first understand the problem before attacking it blindly. This research is what that provides. Now what I want to get my hands on is that same fabric structure that this biologist showed on stage. The one with the fibers at 0 and 90 degrees. I just want to see how the fibers move when under different kinds of stress.
Haven't read all of this yet, but considering the fact that pe is designed to take advantage of and elaborate on the elastic properties of the penis, specifically the tunica, is it not feasible to assume that the elasticity would increase over time and moreso with greater force applied?
Kinda like how a rubber band, or better yet a silicone cock ring, becomes more elastic through prolonged use or persistent stretching. As an aside, with gains that 5% obviously becomes exponentially more valid over time.
I've got to assume the science of pe will be explored in my lifetime. Would love to see the naysayers then.
Kinda like how a rubber band, or better yet a silicone cock ring, becomes more elastic through prolonged use or persistent stretching. As an aside, with gains that 5% obviously becomes exponentially more valid over time.
I've got to assume the science of pe will be explored in my lifetime. Would love to see the naysayers then.
Very interesting article! And it justifies the recent buzz surrounding the bundled stretches here in the forums.
But one even more amazing finding (correct me if I'm wrong): if the tunica thins out by 43% in an erect state elasticity of that tissue gotta be way more than 5%, more like...43%. This makes tunica work even more important.
This raises another question: where did the hypothesis about the 5% come from? and furthermore: may it hold true if applied to the condition of a penis in flaccid state (i.e.: is elasticity of the tunica in flaccid state limited to 5%)? In that case a lot more emphasis should be put on erect twisting and stretching since it would be way more efficient to work on the tunica while being in a max elastic state.
But one even more amazing finding (correct me if I'm wrong): if the tunica thins out by 43% in an erect state elasticity of that tissue gotta be way more than 5%, more like...43%. This makes tunica work even more important.
This raises another question: where did the hypothesis about the 5% come from? and furthermore: may it hold true if applied to the condition of a penis in flaccid state (i.e.: is elasticity of the tunica in flaccid state limited to 5%)? In that case a lot more emphasis should be put on erect twisting and stretching since it would be way more efficient to work on the tunica while being in a max elastic state.
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Aimingforthetop
Active member
This is really amazing stuff actually!
I have a whole lot of experience working with rope. And wires. Like kevlar. Poly or steel.
And if i should apply that iwould say from experience that the best way to apply bundles would be through super sets.
So basicly instead of using them for warm ups
Do them between each other exercise.
Another great one would be to attach the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?83577-Length-master-official-order-thread-now-shipping-06-16-2014!!!]lm[/words]. And then just start and turn it around until you're max bundled (while still applying force) and then twist it the other way around.
So the tension is the same. But the fobers get twisted. Around repeatedly.
This.. This can actually be huge for pe!
How does the tissue look in the glands?
I have a whole lot of experience working with rope. And wires. Like kevlar. Poly or steel.
And if i should apply that iwould say from experience that the best way to apply bundles would be through super sets.
So basicly instead of using them for warm ups
Do them between each other exercise.
Another great one would be to attach the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?83577-Length-master-official-order-thread-now-shipping-06-16-2014!!!]lm[/words]. And then just start and turn it around until you're max bundled (while still applying force) and then twist it the other way around.
So the tension is the same. But the fobers get twisted. Around repeatedly.
This.. This can actually be huge for pe!
How does the tissue look in the glands?
Satyr;665063 said:
Would still love to here some statements of you guys on this subject, especially DLD. I'll go for erect twists and stretches to be on the safe side for now. If the tuncia is much thinner and thus much more elastic in an erect state, it should be a no-brainer whether to do flaccid or erect bundles.
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Satyr;665352 said:
I was thinking this as well. My only issue with the idea of erect bundles is what happens to the blood when creating that twisting action. I see it as a long baloon filled with air. If you squeeze one side the pressure on the other side increases proportionally. The only problem is with the penis, if you squeeze the top, blood flows back into your body. Has anyone done these clamped off at the base?
Aimingforthetop
Active member
i know. but i want to see the tissue in the glans as that might help us invent new exercises for the glansdoublelongdaddy;665232 said:
Aimingforthetop
Active member
MoreThanLuck;665357 said:
put one hand at the base and the other under the head. twist it at the head. while you clamp as much as needed.
then. if you want to increase the tension. simply twist the base hand the opposite way of the head hand. it doesn't have to be much. GOOD STUFF
Aimingforthetop;665360 said:put one hand at the base and the other under the head. twist it at the head. while you clamp as much as needed.
then. if you want to increase the tension. simply twist the base hand the opposite way of the head hand. it doesn't have to be much. GOOD STUFF
The Glans of the penis is the Corpus Spongiosum, but it does not hold expansion because there is no Tunica covering to hold the expansion. This is why, for the most part, enlarging the glans is hard if not impossible. As you can see in this illustration the Tunica ends at the frenulum and the Corpus Spongiosum continues to form the head.
C
ChilDsh
Guest
doublelongdaddy;665372 said:
Really?I have always had the idea that you can increase the size of the head.
ChilDsh;665472 said:
The biggest issue is there is no skin or Tunica to hold the expanded size. The head tends to go back to it's original size. What can be done is millions and millions of Kegels
This, with a flex of the PC muscles, will blow your head up to it's maximum size.
kyomoto
0
doublelongdaddy;665494 said:The biggest issue is there is no skin or Tunica to hold the expanded size. The head tends to go back to it's original size. What can be done is millions and millions of Kegels
My head has gotten smaller ever since 6 months of PE and I don't know how to make it big again. Hopefully kegels will help.
kyomoto;665574 said:
Kegels are the tried and true way to give your head the most expansion. This expansion comes from a set of strong muscles that with a simple flex will expand the head to its maximum size. I can hold a Kegel for a long period of time.
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templnite
Guest
kyomoto;665574 said:
What exercises have you been doing? My head only gets fuller with subsequent training bro
doublelongdaddy;665614 said:
Through kegeling, I see this behavior as well (be it a temporary expansion). The only way I've been able to hold it is if I kegel while I pump. Doing this over the 30-40 min pump session allows for over expansion. I know someone mentioned it might be fluid retention (and it may be), but is that really bad? I know it's bad for the shaft as no real gains are being made due to the fluid being drawn into the area between the outer layer of skin and the tunica, but the head has no such structure. Its just all gland with some nerves and urethra. The fluid and/or blood has nowhere to go but to expand the tissue itself. I could be wrong; this is just how I'm looking at it. Please refute if you see differently.
MoreThanLuck;665818 said:
Well the idea of creating a larger head is dependent on just how strong those muscles are and just how much endurance you can exercise. With a strong set of Pelvic Floor Muscles you should be able to hold a Kegel for a great deal of time, definitely enough time for a blow job
"Collagen fibers do not resist compressive forces well, so large bend-
ing forces will tend to make the structure fail on the side under compression, giving the penis a sharp kink. Penile kinking has been observed in copulating dogs (Grandage, ’72) and rhinoceros (Fish, personal communi- cation)."
This comment more than anything makes me believe in bundled stretches as bundled stretches provide a compressive force while twisting. My only problem with this is it mentions the structure will only fail on the side that is being compressed. Well, if we're using something like the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?83577-Length-master-official-order-thread-now-shipping-06-16-2014!!!]LM[/words] to perform bundled stretches, would this not allow us to fail (compress) the part of the penis that is being 'grabbed' in order to twist the rest of the penis? Would bundled stretches be better if we start the twisting action closer to the head so the whole shaft feels the twisting action?
ing forces will tend to make the structure fail on the side under compression, giving the penis a sharp kink. Penile kinking has been observed in copulating dogs (Grandage, ’72) and rhinoceros (Fish, personal communi- cation)."
This comment more than anything makes me believe in bundled stretches as bundled stretches provide a compressive force while twisting. My only problem with this is it mentions the structure will only fail on the side that is being compressed. Well, if we're using something like the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?83577-Length-master-official-order-thread-now-shipping-06-16-2014!!!]LM[/words] to perform bundled stretches, would this not allow us to fail (compress) the part of the penis that is being 'grabbed' in order to twist the rest of the penis? Would bundled stretches be better if we start the twisting action closer to the head so the whole shaft feels the twisting action?
Hmm, I think I explained compression wrong. Well, makes sense. I'm an electrical engineer not mechanical. 😁 . Any mechanical engineers in here that can analyze how we may achieve compression. Seems like bundled stretches allows for torsion (twisting) and tension (pulling), but no compressive forces which they say will allow for deformation.
http://groundupstrength.wdfiles.com...on-compression-shear-torsion/bone-loading.gif
http://groundupstrength.wdfiles.com...on-compression-shear-torsion/bone-loading.gif
LONGERDICK7+
Active Member
doublelongdaddy;667916 said:
Good news invest time in PE n the gains will be permanent
MoreThanLuck;667874 said:
Collagens are strongest axially. The particular arrangement in a penis resists alteration in (analogously) the 'cardinal directions' as the tissues are laid out: Longitudinally - North to South, vs changes in length ... and Circularly - "East to West" vs changes in girth.
To break down and remodel the tissues in those directions, you need a lot of time and/or a lot of force. [ * ] Which is all doable, but there are ways to reach the goals more quickly.
[* And/or added heat between 104 and 108 F to increase pliability of the collagens].
Since their strength is highest in perpendicular layers lain to cardinal points, diagonal torsion (such as bundled stretches) -is- deformation. -- As is deflection of the tissues as well by various jelq variants .. jelqs/SSJs etc are like a rolling ring of compression, stressing the tissues 'down/inwards' (and to some extent also outwards) in a vector where the tissues are less resistant to force and are easier to destabilize. [**]
If you can get the tissues to undergo stressors in weaker vectors, where their strength and therefore structure is more easily compromised: such as diagonally (via bundled stretches, directional pulls [behind the cheek etc], A/V pulls, cranks) -- or deflection (via jelqs, or SSJs and etc, or the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?64036-My-Best-Work-Ever-Penis-Enlargement-will-Be-Changed-Forever-gt-gt-Gain%20inches%20with%20SRT-Theory-and-Routine]SRT[/words] expressive thing whos name I'm jammed up on at the moment) then the various fibrils can undergo breakdown more easily for less resistance during additional PE exercises, for greater remodeling/gains during healing and/or active healing. In sports physiology (like muscle-building) they call that 'Pre-Fatiguing'. The usage is different but the term fits here as well.
I had a longer 'post' (i thought) on this, .. tried to find it but turns out it was a PM conversation that I probably shouldn't link to, and don't know if that's actually possible anyway. The above is a decent retell, hopefully it made sense. ((Did run into the original link for Kelly's TED Talk on this subject though: http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/...3550-the-penis-as-a-hydrostatic-skeleton.html))
[** This is making me wonder now if water pumping's superiority over air pumping .. I've never used either one .. might largely (no pun intended) be based upon the likelihood that the users of waterpumps are very probably using water of comfortably warm temperatures .. near or at the range for increases in collagen pliability .. rather than what's less likely - inexplicably using water that's uncomfortably cold for no rational reason. Since water will add or remove heat 9 times faster than Air, 'room temperature water' would feel uncomfortably cold .. like a cold shower. The simple act of having the water be comfortably warm would be right at the range for heat-related pliability benefits versus the normal strength of the collagen fibrils. Would enjoy seeing a discussion of that by brothers who have used air and water pumps, .. probably though in its own thread.]
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templnite
Guest
But this is when they are erected bro, and If you are experienced with erect work you would know to manipulate the penis so that a broad area is equally effected without room for sharp kinks. I don't own a [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?83577-Length-master-official-order-thread-now-shipping-06-16-2014!!!]LM[/words] so I don't know exactly how you attach it, but I think you place it mid-shaft then it sort of fall into position just behind the glans after you tighten:blush:MoreThanLuck;667873 said:
kyomoto
0
galavance;667911 said:
Dude these methods are all permanent. The penis grows differently than muscle. The science has been done, just do your manual stretching or device stretching and have a routine on when to do it. Example: 2 days on, 1 day off. For 30 minutes or whatever. Continue this for perhaps 2 months. Since you're a beginner you should see gains quiet quickly so 2 months tops. Don't get discouraged if gains don't come quicker, Penis Enlargement is a process that takes time.
templnite;668002 said:
You're correct. I had to re-read that once more. They are talking about in the erect state, not flacid state.
This seems to explain why the Mandingo Stretch is such a good composite move. During the twist, it applies compression to the tunica at the bend while simultaneously stretching it on the outside of the bend. All that while tugging at the ligs and "internal" penis. Using your second hand, you can also use your thumb for an extra bend at various points on the shaft!
BUT
Is the Mandingo Stretch ultimately not as effective as doing anything while erect?
BUT
Is the Mandingo Stretch ultimately not as effective as doing anything while erect?
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kyomoto;665770 said:
Did it actually get smaller or is it an illusion because the rest of your dick got bigger?
jekyllnhyde360
Well-known member
This is an absolutely fantastic article, thank you for sharing More!
And thank you to DLD for breaking it down so well!
And thank you to DLD for breaking it down so well!
Jarathen;679740 said:
I use the [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?83577-Length-master-official-order-thread-now-shipping-06-16-2014!!!]LM[/words] when doing erect/flacid bundles. I suspect that you're doing them manually that you would have to use two hands; the hydrostatic forces are strong in your pene. I never twist in opposite directions when I'm erect because I can't. Only when doing flacid bundles.
Bump