sikdogg;300602 said:
I'm a big fan of C&F but find that it has a limited place... i like to use it as an opener and as negs but i don't like doing it the whole time as it's hard to build comfort with it. I'm more into the indirect game but the Juggler Method sounds interesting to me. Juggler is actually doing a seminar this coming weekend in my neck of the woods (SoCal). I'd like to check it out but i already have plans... i definitely want to look into it more.
I don't think C&F is the problem when picking up women and in the C-stages (according the Mystery). It's just a wrong usage of it. I know for myself personally sometimes I can come off as too much of an ass using C&F comments, but that's on me. David Deangelo realizes you can't keep having the method of communicating all the time. He talks about this in his lectures when he speaks of a "fake" natural who just keeps Reaction Seeking for a particular response, which is defined as a misuse of the Cocky and Funny style.
The main thing for C&F for me is that it can be more difficult to calibrate. Personally, I feel that it's harder to get away with cockier shit (even though you show you're just busting their balls for fun) if you're a better looking guy, I guess because women expect it more, much like men expect bitchier attitudes from hotter women. I've been meaning to test out this Confident & Funny attitude, as one guy put it, rather than a Cocky & Funny attitude, just because I see sometimes I'll shoot myself out of the water with the C&F shit, especially with subtle negs.
From what I see on discussion forums, negs are used too much. Either that or I can't get away with using too many. I'd say I can use one, two at the MAX, and that's with the hot girls at a party.
Negs and C&F are two different things, don't forget. Negs are a way, essentially, to lower her self value, thus bringing her "down" to your level, or below. C&F is a way to raise your social value, while displaying a high self value at the same time (hence the inner game stuff). The goal of C&F isn't to lower her self value; it doesn't affect her value at all.
As for negs, if I personally use one on a HB8 or lower, I'll pretty much have blown my chances. Girls are expecting certain guys to fit the "asshole" category, and they will be fast to throw you in there if you give them ANY sort of reason to do so. A good rule of thumb is to throw a neg if she's showing resistance in the form of a bitch shield, in which you should be engaged in conversation already. However, if she's all sweet and definitely attracted to you already, no need to throw one. That was a big problem of mine, I'd throw negs from the start of a conversation, even though she was already attracted to me. Yes, with the right body language (good looks, build, and shape help) and social proof, you CAN be in A3 (she's attracted and tries to attract you) from the start of the conversation.
Sometimes it's just fun to throw a neg out when you know a chick isn't interested. Just remember, if you choose to do an asshole (some would say badboy) type of gesture, you have to stay congruent with it (don't be saying, "I was just kidding," etc). This girl at a party was showing some interest, but very little. From reading her body language it was like she was already in a relationship or had good boy friends. She wouldn't get close to me, ever, while dancing. I ended up getting a little frustrated and asked, "Are you sexually frustrated?" She shook her head, no. "Oh, so you get a lot of dick, huh, player?" She looked somewhat embarrased (notice I DIDN'T criticize her, I merely switched roles and made it sound like what a girl would say to a guy, keeping the C&F frame). She looked so embarrased so I simply said, "Don't be ashamed of it. Damn, girls need to learn how to be more confident." I knew by the look on her face that I had blown myself out. But honestly, I DIDN'T FUCKING CARE. Seriously. I had figured, by her somewhat cold body language, that there was some other person who she was thinking of, and I simply used that opportunity to try some shit out. I took note of the response I got, and I will probably not use that ever again. If she was upset, tough for her. I didn't let that frame go, even though she became disturbed.
I've been working on not keeping the badboy frame, mostly by not getting drunk (which generally makes me more cocky and aggressive).
