John Kerry for President?

Spektrum said:

Supra: Were you alive back during Vietnam? Have you studied the history behind the war? I know you're a marine and very gung ho, but Vietnam was a senseless war. Read a little about it, you'll agree.

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Vietnam - now there's a topic that simply cannot be summed up in a matter of a fiew words. The cause for war was just IMO (to defeat Communism). However, whether or not it was the most logistically feasable place to accomplish that task...now that's another matter. To simply regard it as a senseless war though...that's something that I don't agree with.

John Kerry for President?

This is a man that denounced his military service.

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Wich he had every right too...at least he didn't go Awol like Bush did...and Bush wasn't even in Vietnam.

BUSH LIED ABOUT GOING TO WAR!!! (It doesn't get anymore serious than this... unless he was the culprit behind 911 ) And didn't get shit!!! Clinton got impeached for get'n his nob slobbed!!! There's something seriously fucked up here!

This was a man who had an alliance with the treason queen herself who was famous for befriending the enemy.

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"Treason"? Bush is commiting treason by fucking with the constitution and using it to take away right's....Among other things...such as the Patriot Act! I believe bush has commited other treasonas acts (I guess he want's to take after his grandfather Prescot Bush... 3 counts of treason!!! CRAZY shit), that we'll never know about. This is very serious business.

As far as T-Queen, she was just one of over half the population that didn't agree with the war... It's called freedom of speach! She didn't want to see her fellow American's going to a war and get killed for what most believe was an unjust war. As far as befriending the enemy... who is the enemy... She was befriending and supporting the innocent people being killed/murdered...intentionally and un-intentionally.

By the way... I believe they already announced that the photo was doctored and he was never sitting with her.

This is a man who was the head of the anti-war movement.

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What's wrong with peace...HE WAS EXPenis EnlargementRIENCED in an "unjust war" and it seem's that he has a level head on his shoulder and he has way more right than anyone to state his belief's and the reason's why...

This is a man who not only called for, but embraced the idea of men to dodge the draft and move to Canada.

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Was our country in danger? I really don't agree with risking our life for some other country... I probably would have moved to Canada too...lol

On the other hand, if our country was invaded... I would be first in line to die for our country!

This is a man who called for men to turn their back on their country.

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Wrong...he called for people to stand up against an unjust war...not to turn their back on the country... not givin a shit about what you government is doing and blindly following like a sheep, is really "turning your back on your country"!

This is a man that called combat, murder.

This is a man that now embraces what he once denounced and is now considered a war hero.

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War should not be glorified and should be considered very serious... although in some context's it could be called murder and in some context's, it could be called combat/defense/fighting... he probably said that because he witnessed/experienced murderous activities...

This is a man who once called his fellow war veterans baby killers, but is now proud that he himself killed while in combat.

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Believe it or not there where many cases where our soldier's had raped, tortured, and murdered innocent men, women and childeren...that would have been blew off completely if people like the protestor's hadn't stood up against the atrocities...and would probably go on still if people didn't use the amendment that allow's Free Speach. "FIRST AMENDMENT"

My great Uncle was a merc durring the Vietnam war... he told me about some pretty sick thing's our soldier's... as well as other's, had done to innocent people! I really don't want to get into it because it's PRETTY DAMM GUT WRENCHING!

This is a man that is despised by the veterans of foreign wars organization.

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Quit watching the media...some VFW are upset, but some VFW agree... The vietnam war was not a good war to fight. And I believe to blindly follow your government with out question, then you would be enforcing a GREAT problem to the value of are constitution, bill of rights... and other values of this country such as FREEDOM... wich can ALL be taken away...if the Patriot Act is not discarded.

This is a man who may become our president?

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I really hope he does... we don't need to re-elect a liar and a supressor...Bush's nose should be 50 feet long right now.

This as a man that according to the national democratic committee, if he really wants to win, will name Hillary as his running mate.

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I don't know much about Hillary so...

THINK ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES.

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LOL I was actually rootn for Dean and/or Edward's

Peace

I'd like to note that when I said that I wouldn't fight for a country that wasn't my own... I'm really saying that I wouldn't fight for another country based on political reason's... In other word's, I would definantly fight for other FRIENDLY countries... such as Canada, Europe, etc... Sorry if I didn't mention you country, I'm bad with Geography

Peace

GhosT_DoGG said:

Even if im not American, I dont want to se any of them as Presidents(Kerry and Bush)
Bush is a mad mothefucking pack of shit that deserves to be assasinated!
It should have been Al Gore, in year 2000.

And I think there should be a Black president or a Female president, time to break that timeline of white upperclass president.
A person who not seak war and start missery!
Dont just help just for the thing of it, do it because you really want to help!
Its not about keeping voters and listeners, its to explore more posibilities and talk to the real people, the regular ones. Not rich and wealty!

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I agree!

I am voting Libertarian. I could never vote for a Democrat. I could vote for a Republican, but I consider GWB to be Republican in name only. I hope he is re-elected, but I dont hink I could bring myself to vote for him. My state will go Democrat anyway, so its a good place to vote 3rd Party or Independent as no one can say you wasted a vote or helped elect someone else.

Dario said:

Vietnam - now there's a topic that simply cannot be summed up in a matter of a fiew words. The cause for war was just IMO (to defeat Communism). However, whether or not it was the most logistically feasable place to accomplish that task...now that's another matter. To simply regard it as a senseless war though...that's something that I don't agree with.

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Vietnam was a money making war. Ask anyone that was old enough to realize back then. You were born in 78... so you probably have no idea. Go ask an elder.

Stop the spread of communism... thats bullshit. Did we wage war on Cuba? Russia? China? Recently Korea? Uh... No.

Spektrum said:

Stop the spread of communism... thats bullshit. Did we wage war on Cuba? Russia? China? Recently Korea? Uh... No.

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I agree. That was our official foreign policy motto for most of the 20th Century and it was highly contradictory.

Damn this thread took off, great posts guys, keep them comming

Supra,

post more thread's like this.... I love controversey and debateing...lol

That photograph with Jane Fonda has been widely exposed throughout all credible media to be a photoshopped fake. Fonda was clearly added into the photo.

That being said, this is typical of what I see as the emerging right wing strategy to try and discredit John Kerry as somehow anti-American in his views. As far as his protests against the war, in what way are they anti-American? It is our sacred right and liberty as citizens of the US to criticize the government's actions and leaders. This is essential to our way of life and true democracy. Not all actions undertaken by the US government are intrinsically just and correct, and attacking all who would identify and criticize such actions as traitors is ridiculous, and suggests a somewhat brainwashed mentality. Kerry served his country in war, and has served it as a prosecutor and holder of other public offices for almost all of his adult life. He is and has been a public servant, and I defy anybody to comb his resume and take from it the actions of a person who does not feel both deeply patriotic and committed to improving his country.

Bush, meanwhile, spent a life essentially pursuing the bolstering of his own hereditarilly guranteed wealth, often with failing results due to his incompitence as a business manager and leader (as well as at taxpayer expense, for anybody interested do some reserach into how he 'financed' his buy-in into the Astros organization). Although Bush and Kerry both hail from blue blooded New England roots, Kerry chose to serve his country in Vietnam and risked his life along with his fellow soldiers, although he surely could have secured a National Guard tour and avoided any danger, as Bush did. As was mentioned, it is also quite appearent that Bush did not even complete his Guard Tour as seemingly no documentation WHATSOEVER of the President having been in the service for almost a year of his assigned time can be produced (his family, by Bush's own words, "arranged" for him to he dismissed from his obligations of duty months early as well).

Suggesting that Kerry will be soft on terrorists because he voted down certain spending measures is just more ridiculous propagandizing. Our military is, by all practical purposes, uncontested in strength, size, modernity, and capability. Although nations such as China with formidable man power could offer us an event that could potentially create large numbers of casualties (nothing akin to wars of the past however), no nation could possibly defeat us. Kerry voted down what were often flagrant and unecessary spending measures that did more to fatten the pockets of Lockheed Martin and certain congressional member's pet industries than increase the security of our nation or the potency of our military. The very fact taht so many people are outraged by John Kerry's belief that diplomacy can be just as useful in securing world peace and prosperity as brute military power and force is a sad symptom of just how much damage has occurred to the national mindset since 9/11. Before that tragic day Americans loathed war and combat, seeing it as the necessary evil that it truly is. Today, as we live in fear and are privy to oceans of propaganda and simplistic right-wing theorizing, we have dropped the evil and simply view war and force as necessity.

The facts are starting to roll out about the war in Iraq. At the time I supported our actions, as I, like so many others, did not believe that the US government would lie on such a wide scale about the WMD threat (I never believed there were any links to Al Queda or 9/11 in Iraq, nor did any of the government as they were extremely careful to essentially imply that it was possible without saying that they knew for sure. It seems clear however that they consciously tried to link Iraq and 9/11 [hence a desire for vengence] in the heads and hearts of Americans. A post war Gallup poll revealed that some 48% of Americans suspected that Sadaam Hussein was behind 9/11 in some way, little more needs to be said about the effectiveness of the Bush administration's campaign to sell the war to us). The government quite clearly did lie though. Many will be suprised in the next few years as people quietly retire and write books exposing what was essentially a neoconservative push to go to war at all costs, intelligence and motives used purely as dressing to the action. A steady stream of articles written by former government employees has already started to materialize; more are on the way.

A coward that played hooky in the National Guard because his family was wealthy and connected, while the other young men his age died for their country in the jungles of Vietnam, covets and advocates war for it's own sake, not the true safety and protection of the American people. A man who has tirelessly served his country throughout an ambitous and highly successful career, including risking his own life when he could easily have done otherwise, announces that war is not only not always correct, but that as a country we have other options that we must explore as well, and all of you call traitor? Shame, I am always deeply saddened when I am reminded that so many Americans have been led down that road. A true patriot upholds the ideals of his nation, not it's leaders. And anybody who thinks the Patriot Act is constitutional must have failed civics in high school, because it takes a dropout to be incapable of udnerstanding the danger in forfeiting our rights as citizens during dangerous times.

Swank said:

That being said, this is typical of what I see as the emerging right wing strategy to try and discredit John Kerry as somehow anti-American in his views.

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Yep, and its not just against Democrats. IMO the administration is not a "real" Republican one either. Any Republican in Congress who pledges to vote against a position of the Bush administration ( In other words any Republican with principle) is bribed and threatened by Bush, ROve, and his cronies. Rove and his people put everyone on notice that if they vote against the President, they will not let them them be re-elected. Also, Bush is known to call up legislators in the middle of the night to pressure them to vote against their principles.
The current Amdinistration attempts to discredit anyone and call anyone Anti-American, while at the same time being very Anti-American themselves when it comes to critical parts of the Constitution. They have a bunch of puppets and Bush is the king Puppet. I recognized this in 2000 when during the Republican primary debates, Bush never performed better than 5th or 6th best in the debates. Yet before voting ever began he had already won as he was installed by the GOP elite as the winner.

But I sure as hell dont want Kerry to win. Because he would probably be about the same as Bush. Different in rhetoric. But very similar Skull&Bone when it comes down to it.

bigbutnottoo said:

Any Republican in Congress who pledges to vote against a position of the Bush administration ( In other words any Republican with principle) is bribed and threatened by Bush, ROve, and his cronies. Rove and his people put everyone on notice that if they vote against the President, they will not let them them be re-elected. Also, Bush is known to call up legislators in the middle of the night to pressure them to vote against their principles.

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All presidents do that. The party wants everyone to vote the same way. There is a position for both parties in congress called "the whip" who's job is to make sure everyone in the party votes the same way. If they don't vote the same way they will probably lose support when they run for reelection. Politics=power. People will get it anyway they can.

True, but Bush is especially notorious for it. He also has never used the veto. In recent memory I cant think of any other President who campaigned under one ideology or belief and then changed this much( they all shift some of course) ( maybe George H.W. would be closest). Clinton pretty much campaigned as a moderate Dem and pretty much served as one. I think Reagan was pretty consistent.

I forget who it was , but there was one Congressman who told Bush " I came here to reduce the federal government, not grow it" and Bush muttered " so did I" and hung up.

All I'm saying is this administration should be careful because they are alienating their own supporters. and If they try to take out someone like Ron Paul they will lose a whole lot more support than they ever imagined.

One thing Momma always told me, in public never discuss Politics or Religion. It NEVER gets you anywhere, cept alienatied.

Aint that the truth, I just keep my mouth shut and post stuff that people send me!

One thing I was wondering though, Seeing as the US is ALWAYS in debt, why not cut back on a few levels of Govt? I mean like cut out a few of the middlemen? Heck just every other level. Shit they never REALLY vote the way we the people want anyways. Do they? Heck it would cut out a TON of CASH paid out in salaries, office supplies rent cars dinners tripsand all the hoopla!!

Just a thought

I want Clinton back, you know he had a big cock.

doublelongdaddy said:

I want Clinton back, you know he had a big cock.

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No, it was just crooked.

ctmwm said:

One thing I was wondering though, Seeing as the US is ALWAYS in debt, why not cut back on a few levels of Govt? I mean like cut out a few of the middlemen? Heck just every other level. Shit they never REALLY vote the way we the people want anyways. Do they? Heck it would cut out a TON of CASH paid out in salaries, office supplies rent cars dinners tripsand all the hoopla!!

Just a thought

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On the serious tip: Government is ABOUT middlemen. All government is, is a middleman.


Also, dont you know if you did that, all these people would be crying about losing jobs? There are literally guys who work for the government who get paid $100K plus to do nothing. There was some guy from the NIH who went public to some magazines and newspapers not that long ago. Apparently he was a middle executive handling a specific project that either ended or was cutoff many years ago. he kept his job but had nothing to do. he had a fancy title but no workload and supposedly he went around asking people what he could to to help them since he had no job. He became a coffee runner. He wrote and called his superiors to address this, but they never did.

So thats your government at work.

SLICEDBEEF said:

Swank, I don't think I could have said it any better!

Bravo Brother!

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Your just looking for someones dick to put in your mouth and up your ass!