American egocentrism and the war...

S

Shithead

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I'll just be blunt and say what really sickens me and really pisses me off about America.

So yeah, the great majority decide to support the war. "Hooray, we'll go to war coz we love Bush and God is on our side". After hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi deaths you don't care, but just of recent when the American death toll is rising by a few dozen all of a sudden everyone wants out of the war.

Open your fucking eyes and get the fuck over yourself America. This of course doesn't apply to every American, but the ones it does are stupid sick cunts.
 
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I actually think it's a very legit point, and something that international human rights organizations try to publicize as much as possible. There is a definate tendency here to turn a blind eye to foreign deaths as a result of our actions, but if any of our people die there's an uproar. If we really value human life, then we ought to be disgusted by the unecessary deaths all around.

As some have brought up, how would supporters of this war try to explain how great it is to the parents of some Iraqi children accidentally blown up in a raid? How would they justify to parents of a slain US reservist who had already served out his contracted time but was kept in country by the army (as tens of thousands of our military currently are)? Is anything so greaty or important coming from this war that it's worth all the tragedy and senseless murder?

A similar case of this would be the Somalia incident, popularized by teh novel and movie "Black Hawk Down" in which tens of thousands of locals were being starved and slaughtered in teh streets by warlords. When a few of our guys bravely died during conflict, the public outrage in the US was such that we basically pulled out of there.

The same can be said for the American apathy concerning the ongoing genocide in the Sudan and Ivory Coast.

I think it's undeniable that a good percentage of people here simply don't value life as much if it doesn't hail from the US. The attitude is alarming and pervasive.
 
The current administration has a huge number of detractors. There has been opposition from the outset. I disagree that a "great majority" of Americans are apathetic regarding casualties. The ones changing their stance are the politicians worried about their seats. I know some extremely conservative people and none of them have ever had the mindless enthusiasm for war that Shithead describes.
 
people die everyday...everywhere for every reason...many people don't seem to care, some do. It does seem that we are raging about our troops and not as concerned about the others. I do agree with your point for the most part....flaming or not.
 
I'm refering to the "polls" that are turning now from the American deaths.
 
Ok Shithead,

I understand where you are coming from and agree... To a point.

We have spent enough time in the Mid East whooping up on our fellow humans.

This war has turned into another Vietnam. No real decisions have been made to win it. We just occupy and watch humans die. The US hasn't made a commitment to kill off everyone of the bad guys. I suppose if they did, it would mean wiping out half the world.

Our military sits and waits for someone to attack its strongholds. It's all about occupation, not killing off the bad guys.

It's either shit or get off the pot for Bush and his administration. Of course he won't shit so humans will just keep dying to encourage economic growth.

Here's where I differ in my opinion with you Shithead. Europe and the rest of the world can't lay a hand on the US when it comes to the individuality it has nurtured along with the belief that death is preferable to slavery. This will continue long after you are an old man and die. Hopefully of natural causes.

Until then, the US rules!

Falcon
 
Swank hit the nail right on the head. Ever seen the movie Hotel Rwanda? Well, I did and then read up on what happened back then during the genocide. I came across one very telling and sad quote from Paul Rusesabagina (the hotel manager played by Don Cheadle in the movie), which appeared in Scotland's Sunday Herald. Here it is in its entirety: "When the UN soldiers were leaving, children begged to be taken with them, otherwise they would be killed. But instead of
taking them, do you know what they did? They evacuated the dogs of foreigners in Kigali. Do you know what that says to me? The
life of a European dog is worth more than a Rwandan human being."

Unfortunately, this view is fairly pervasive today in America (and I would say to a lesser extent in many other industrialized countries). Everyone knows how- right now- the economic value of the Iraqi people is very low. All they do is produce oil. They don't do much else. The same goes for the rest of the Middle East. And what about the Africans? They're black and they don't matter, either. If this were not the case, then there would already be UN-sanctioned international peacekeeping forces in hellholes like Darfur. But there's no one and the horrors continue.

Me, I just think it's all evil. This type of apathy is the darkest part of humanity.
Swank said:
I actually think it's a very legit point, and something that international human rights organizations try to publicize as much as possible. There is a definate tendency here to turn a blind eye to foreign deaths as a result of our actions, but if any of our people die there's an uproar. If we really value human life, then we ought to be disgusted by the unecessary deaths all around.

As some have brought up, how would supporters of this war try to explain how great it is to the parents of some Iraqi children accidentally blown up in a raid? How would they justify to parents of a slain US reservist who had already served out his contracted time but was kept in country by the army (as tens of thousands of our military currently are)? Is anything so greaty or important coming from this war that it's worth all the tragedy and senseless murder?

A similar case of this would be the Somalia incident, popularized by teh novel and movie "Black Hawk Down" in which tens of thousands of locals were being starved and slaughtered in teh streets by warlords. When a few of our guys bravely died during conflict, the public outrage in the US was such that we basically pulled out of there.

The same can be said for the American apathy concerning the ongoing genocide in the Sudan and Ivory Coast.

I think it's undeniable that a good percentage of people here simply don't value life as much if it doesn't hail from the US. The attitude is alarming and pervasive.
Click to expand...
 
When I spoke out about the innocent Iraqi civiians losing their live's I got labled a "US HATER", go figure.
 
Shithead said:
I'll just be blunt and say what really sickens me and really pisses me off about America.

So yeah, the great majority decide to support the war. "Hooray, we'll go to war coz we love Bush and God is on our side". After hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi deaths you don't care, but just of recent when the American death toll is rising by a few dozen all of a sudden everyone wants out of the war.

Open your fucking eyes and get the fuck over yourself America. This of course doesn't apply to every American, but the ones it does are stupid sick cunts.
Click to expand...

This is a SUPenis EnlargementRB post, and I AGREE with you 1000 percent.
The UK also gets dragged in with the mess because of Blairs constant arse licking of the US leaders, I WISH they [the UK gouvernment] would tell them [the US Gouvernment] to FUCK OFF and fight alone on their neverending war on terror, which will never end because you cant fight evil with evil and it'll spawn new saddams and new Al Zuqawi's.
The USA causes more fuckin trouble than anyone else and it was little surprise to me when the towers got blew-up.
Not many batted eye lids when the towers of Lebanon, yes a Arab country got demolished...but when its the USA well everyone has to know.
It was DISGUSTING and SICK what happend, and by no means am I saying its deserved or anything like that BUT is it anywonder that the world hates the US and indeed the UK, because we are always behind the USA so we get the same lick of paint.
Its about time the US stopped putting the world to rights, removed its head from its shitter and got on with running its own fuckin land.
 
Kal-el said:
When I spoke out about the innocent Iraqi civiians losing their live's I got labled a "US HATER", go figure.
Click to expand...

No offense, but its perhaps the way you type it?
I'm also guilty of the samething.
We are similer their, dont worry about it.
 
I'm just going to say, sorry to anyone if they get annoyed or upset by my post in this thread #10 because it is a sensitive issue, and I dont hate the US.
Dont take it the wrong way, I just have to think about my own land before anyother and that is the UK.
I hope I dont cause any unrest with my post and that if I have offended anyone I'm sorry for doing so and it wasnt my intention.
As you all know, its hard online to get things across and it does comeout worse than it would if it was in speech.
 
For more than a decade now, Chechnya has been ravaged by the Russian army, which razed the cities, deported, tortured, raped, not to mention massacred the population of this small country to which Yeltsin gave autonomy in 1991. The result: a genocide, which has resulted, as a reaction, in a wave of terrorism without precedent afflicting Russia. But the American media fails to inform the public on these international matters.

The American media must feel guilty for their crimes in Iraq. They choose to focus on single people like Natalee Holloway or Terry Schiavo, but at the same time, don't report that half a million of Iraqi children have been murdered by US sanctions and invasions, and that thousands more everyday are killed by illegal occupation.
 
I don't understand how U.N. sanctions (not U.S.) killed "half a million" Iraqi children.
 
REDZULU2003 said:
I'm just going to say, sorry to anyone if they get annoyed or upset by my post in this thread #10 because it is a sensitive issue, and I dont hate the US.
Dont take it the wrong way, I just have to think about my own land before anyother and that is the UK.
I hope I dont cause any unrest with my post and that if I have offended anyone I'm sorry for doing so and it wasnt my intention.
As you all know, its hard online to get things across and it does comeout worse than it would if it was in speech.
Click to expand...

We're kind of sister nations ya know? I mean divide and conquer/rule and wanting to take resources from other lands where the people's situation is less stable than our own is common ground for the UK and US. Oil interests is another commone theme our two countries have. Iran and Iraq just happen to keep on being ripe for the picking and unfortunately human lives are not seen as anything much more than sacrifices. The idea is that the Iraqi people are sacrifices that in the end will have been worth the cost of this invasion/occupation, which is most importantly human life. That's the idea when speaking about the murder of massive amounts of people in terms of casualties or death tolls, but really when it comes down to it the people were just in the way of a few people's agenda. That is the sickest part of humanity. It's not the apathy. It's the crippling position which our corrupt and malevolent and arrogant leaders put us. It's a terrible element we have and it truly proves to be prevalent at least initially in like times in history. The kind of power our two nations have had and do have is precarious as much as it is dictative in nature.
 
Kal-el said:
For more than a decade now, Chechnya has been ravaged by the Russian army, which razed the cities, deported, tortured, raped, not to mention massacred the population of this small country to which Yeltsin gave autonomy in 1991. The result: a genocide, which has resulted, as a reaction, in a wave of terrorism without precedent afflicting Russia. But the American media fails to inform the public on these international matters.

The American media must feel guilty for their crimes in Iraq. They choose to focus on single people like Natalee Holloway or Terry Schiavo, but at the same time, don't report that half a million of Iraqi children have been murdered by US sanctions and invasions, and that thousands more everyday are killed by illegal occupation.
Click to expand...

Great point
 
I care about all the citizens of the world. I hope that someday, they are all truly free, and have the right and ability of self determination.

Sadly, there are many in the world that wish to control, indeed enslave other people. Generally, these EVIL people are heavily armed, and control others by force.

Generally, the ONLY way to break the hold of these EVIL people, over the innocents, is by use of a greater force.

Thankfully, there are countries willing to sacrifice, and fight these forces. Yes, sometimes innocents are killed as a byproduct of this fight. But the successful end to the fight saves many more in the long run.

Please study history. Learn in depth. Realize the above is true, and that a noble force is sometimes required.

Generally, if you consider US actions to be wrong, then you are sadly misinformed. Learn the entire story of any event before you make conclusions.

Bigger
 
Bib, your posts are generally thoughtful and interesting, but I find this quote a bit disturbing:


"Generally, if you consider US actions to be wrong, then you are sadly misinformed."

Perhaps I'm out of context again, but that strikes me as dogmatic patriotism.

One of the great cornerstones of our national ideal is the ability and willingness of the population to criticize and question their leadership. This is the very freedom that you express a desire for the rest of the world to experience.

The US has done some very bad things and made some serious mistakes, in recent and older history. The ability to point this out is crucial to our national character, and relucatnce to admit any fault due to some nationalistic longing is something that has always aroused alarm in me, and I do believe the same sort of attitude that causes many in the states to devalue the lives of foreigners under Americans.
 
Especially Falcon and why not all you others should read some books by Noam Chomsky. Might give you a broader and deeper point of view about things concerning world- and your local (USA) politics.. And about your leader's great words of Freedom and Democracy.. It's not about people in USA, not about people in Europe, or in any other continents or countries. It's about wealthy people and people in power (politics and corporate leaders). And about us less well-off (workers, poor people in 3rd world countries) who pay their standards of living with labor and taxes. And the ways they use to keep it that way and even make it better for them.. on common people expense.
And if you are a lazy reader, then look some documents by Michael Moore to get you started. Those do not go as "deep" as Chomsky does in his books, but they are a good start on a journey to comprehend and have some knowledge on things you are talking about.

Ps. FUCK GEORGE BUSH AND EVERYTHING CONCERNING NEO-LIBERAL POLITICS !!!!! LMAO
 
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