It looks as if the situation with Iran could end up being a multi-national war before it's all said and done. I am amazed that it has gotten so little coverage in the media. Does anyone else have this concern or is this just ultimately a [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?83810-MoS-Online-Texas-Holdem-Poker-League-and-Tournament-to-win-P-E-Prizes!!!]poker[/words] standoff that will get resolved before a shot is actually fired?
IRAN: This situation is looking pretty grim
We need another military conflict like we need a hole in the head, but I don't think there is much option here. I don't want to see our guys sent into another meatgrinder. We need massive bombings to destroy almost the entire infrastructure of their cities, such as in the last World War.
June 6th.
I continue to be amazed at how little attention is being paid to this scenario, given its potential. Sure hope it gets resolved in an acceptable manner.
Duppi_Krizzle said:
Specific thoughts?
penguinsfan said:
My thoughts:
Even though I agree that Iran is the last country that I would want to have WMD's it is my understanding that everything they have done SO FAR is well within their rights under the treatise they have signed. I maybe wrong about that but that is at least the way I understand it.
I have a really extreme idea, how about we COMPLETELY withdraw from the middle east and let them continue to kill each other over sand like they have for the last 3000 years.
One more thing, Bush wanted "democracy" in the middle east. Now Hamas has been voted in so their "democracy" has spoken. How can Bush say he refuses to deal with Hamas since they were legally voted in under his ideas for "democracy" in the middle east.
kook
Hey penguinsfan the situation does get a lot of attention, just not the U.S. variety. I'm a firm believer in the fact that mainstream media is completely unreliable. We're supposed to be in Iraq to "liberate the people" and "spread freedom" right? Yet, you will never hear about special forces masqueraiding as terrorists killing both Iraqis and Americans. S.A.S. was caught red handed at this by the Iraqi police forces. After their capture they were broken out by British troops. Why isn't that on C.N.N. ?
The attacks pf September 11th were supposedly masterminded by terrorists, chiefly Osama Bin Laden. Did you know that firefighters and policemen were barred from testimony during the so called 9/11 commission. They along with many others wanted to testify that they heard bombs go off at the bases of the towers. They were even police reports detaling the discovery of the actual charges before they went off. This was originally reported by MSNBC on September 12th 01'. That little nugget just connvienantly slipped by the wayside and next thing you know we were flooded with media reports that not only were the guilty parties terrorist but we were even given headshots no less. Just about everyone has seen a building that was purposely brought down for construction reasons. The process is referred to as controlled demolition. Charges are methodically put in place through out the structure so as to cause the building to come down on itself directly, thus no surrounding buildings are harmed. This is exactly what brought down the towers, not the aircraft. This is "false flag" terror. Do a google for "Project Northwoods" and see what comes up. Don't say I didn't warn you.
Backtrack to the fall of 94'. Once again Haiti was a political mess. I was off it's coast and with my team was ordered to take out General Cedras and his entire police forces specifically. We worked up for weeks and on the very night of our raid while hitting the water itself everything changed. Suddenly our orders took an about face and we were to now take this on as a "peace keeping mission". Cedras and his police were to be spared. To say we were pissed would be an understatement of the highest order. I would later discover that this all came on the footheels of ex-President Jimmy Carter and his involvement in the matter. Cedras himself ordered and condoned the rape and murder of pregnant women and children. Our snipers were on him the entire time of our "peace keeping mission". And no, I didn't just read this somewhere, one of my buddies from early training was one of those snipers. We were both disgusted with the situation and left the service quite bitter over this and other matters. Instead of killing Cedras he was sent to Jamaica with $10 million in his pockets compliments of the American taxpayer. God bless America.
I don't want to be interpreted as anti-American. I graduated high school a semester early and turned down a full ride through law school to join the Marines and serve my country. I was a young idealist then, itching to be part of Desert Storm. By the time I got out of boot that conflict was already over, at least officiallly. Our government has a long history of imperialism and I don't see that changing anytime time soon. What I do see is the calculated murder of our own citizens by it's hand. It's all in plain sight where ironically many don't seem to notice. Ignorance is bliss.
The attacks pf September 11th were supposedly masterminded by terrorists, chiefly Osama Bin Laden. Did you know that firefighters and policemen were barred from testimony during the so called 9/11 commission. They along with many others wanted to testify that they heard bombs go off at the bases of the towers. They were even police reports detaling the discovery of the actual charges before they went off. This was originally reported by MSNBC on September 12th 01'. That little nugget just connvienantly slipped by the wayside and next thing you know we were flooded with media reports that not only were the guilty parties terrorist but we were even given headshots no less. Just about everyone has seen a building that was purposely brought down for construction reasons. The process is referred to as controlled demolition. Charges are methodically put in place through out the structure so as to cause the building to come down on itself directly, thus no surrounding buildings are harmed. This is exactly what brought down the towers, not the aircraft. This is "false flag" terror. Do a google for "Project Northwoods" and see what comes up. Don't say I didn't warn you.
Backtrack to the fall of 94'. Once again Haiti was a political mess. I was off it's coast and with my team was ordered to take out General Cedras and his entire police forces specifically. We worked up for weeks and on the very night of our raid while hitting the water itself everything changed. Suddenly our orders took an about face and we were to now take this on as a "peace keeping mission". Cedras and his police were to be spared. To say we were pissed would be an understatement of the highest order. I would later discover that this all came on the footheels of ex-President Jimmy Carter and his involvement in the matter. Cedras himself ordered and condoned the rape and murder of pregnant women and children. Our snipers were on him the entire time of our "peace keeping mission". And no, I didn't just read this somewhere, one of my buddies from early training was one of those snipers. We were both disgusted with the situation and left the service quite bitter over this and other matters. Instead of killing Cedras he was sent to Jamaica with $10 million in his pockets compliments of the American taxpayer. God bless America.
I don't want to be interpreted as anti-American. I graduated high school a semester early and turned down a full ride through law school to join the Marines and serve my country. I was a young idealist then, itching to be part of Desert Storm. By the time I got out of boot that conflict was already over, at least officiallly. Our government has a long history of imperialism and I don't see that changing anytime time soon. What I do see is the calculated murder of our own citizens by it's hand. It's all in plain sight where ironically many don't seem to notice. Ignorance is bliss.
"Men of action are but pawns to men of thought". I forget where I picked that up but it really stuck with me. So Supra could you elaborate on your longing for deployment to Iran? Itchy trigger finger perhaps? Do you really believe that what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan with our troops these last few years has been constructive. How is the world at large a better place? I can think of much better uses for the billions that have been spent on this "war on terror". This isn't an attack on you or our troops, I used to play for the team too. I just realized that I wasn't necessarily playing on the side of the angels. Just because somebody points their finger and says, "That's the bad guy, kill him!" doesn't mean it's always true. I refuse to be someone's puppet and it's sad that so many are willing to do so. I bought the whole "America the great" bag when I was a youth too. I'm no longer an impressionable eightteen year old. I'm a thirty three year old man who has seen and knows there is a darkside that most either don't know or refuse to know. It's a lot harder to lead troops into an ambush when they know it's there.
REDZULU2003
Well-known member
I aint going to get much involved in this thread because it wont solve anything.
However I feel that its about time the west started to build bridges with the middle east and stop trying to dictate what they do and what they should do.
Iran wants nuclear power and nuclear weapons ... that IMHO isnt a problem because they want the weapons for defense and they aint alone in that respect as India, Pakistan, Japan and even Korea have them, plus many more uncluding the USA.
I understand that at this time the middle east is a place of extreme risk and people aint trusted anymore because of wrongful hatred towards them, in essence placing them all in the same bag and branding it the same.
Look at it from the Iranians point of view, here are the WEST mainly the US of A telling them what they can and cant have, or do. The USA also has nukes, so WTF are they doing telling us that we cant have them? Look at it from their perspective.
Iran IMHO should be allowed to have the nukes and the power it wants.
They are in the UN and have to obide by the UN's laws plus I'm sure I heard that Iran were going to allow inspectors inside to oversee it all. I know they have allowed access to many of their facilities recently, so they have bent over backwards. Some feel deepdown no dougt that Iran would make nukes and sell them on the black market....but yet again maybe they wont. Who's to say the west doesnt do this? I couldnt see Iran sending nukes and attacking the west with them nor anyother terrorist group, they would SHIT THEIR LOAD than and they aint that stupid, hence they attack undercover useing stealth - placing bombs on trains, plains etc they dont launch massive payloads into countries to wipe it all out. Dont forget that alot of Irainians and middle east persons live in many western countries.
The USA is the main devil in all of this. Sorry if this hits a nerve but its how I feel. The USA were once going to develop something called 'the star wars system' in space which was some weapons system, but it didnt get started....could you imagine if someone else tried or thought of that?
Let Iran have its weapons and its power, as long they keep to their word and allow the UN to inspect I see no problems. The West could have a very valued ally in Iran if they scratched their backs, but they wont and we probably will oneday see war with them.
However I feel that its about time the west started to build bridges with the middle east and stop trying to dictate what they do and what they should do.
Iran wants nuclear power and nuclear weapons ... that IMHO isnt a problem because they want the weapons for defense and they aint alone in that respect as India, Pakistan, Japan and even Korea have them, plus many more uncluding the USA.
I understand that at this time the middle east is a place of extreme risk and people aint trusted anymore because of wrongful hatred towards them, in essence placing them all in the same bag and branding it the same.
Look at it from the Iranians point of view, here are the WEST mainly the US of A telling them what they can and cant have, or do. The USA also has nukes, so WTF are they doing telling us that we cant have them? Look at it from their perspective.
Iran IMHO should be allowed to have the nukes and the power it wants.
They are in the UN and have to obide by the UN's laws plus I'm sure I heard that Iran were going to allow inspectors inside to oversee it all. I know they have allowed access to many of their facilities recently, so they have bent over backwards. Some feel deepdown no dougt that Iran would make nukes and sell them on the black market....but yet again maybe they wont. Who's to say the west doesnt do this? I couldnt see Iran sending nukes and attacking the west with them nor anyother terrorist group, they would SHIT THEIR LOAD than and they aint that stupid, hence they attack undercover useing stealth - placing bombs on trains, plains etc they dont launch massive payloads into countries to wipe it all out. Dont forget that alot of Irainians and middle east persons live in many western countries.
The USA is the main devil in all of this. Sorry if this hits a nerve but its how I feel. The USA were once going to develop something called 'the star wars system' in space which was some weapons system, but it didnt get started....could you imagine if someone else tried or thought of that?
Let Iran have its weapons and its power, as long they keep to their word and allow the UN to inspect I see no problems. The West could have a very valued ally in Iran if they scratched their backs, but they wont and we probably will oneday see war with them.
Last edited:
koooky said:
I don't know what treaties they have signed regarding this. I know the major players in the international nuclear community, including Russia and China, agree that Iran should not have WMDs. For what it's worth, I think regardless of what a treaty might say, the calculation changes when you say you're going to wipe Israel off the map.
There is something to be said for that. I would love to find alternative energy sources and quit dealing with them, period. Let the Great Satan take his money elsewhere. However, I have some concern as to what they might do to Israel and other neighbors. As for oil, I'd love to get as much of our oil as possible from the Alberta sands and take our business out of the Middle East.
I understand your dislike of Bush from your other posts, given your wife's situation. But this really is a different conversation than Iran. Regarding Hamas, they should not recieve any recognition or deals and Bush was absolutely embarrassing when he praised the elections as a great example of democracy. This was a tragedy much like the Chavez election (if that was legitimate) and look at the fact that Hitler was elected. Sometimes the population fucks up.
If the Palestianian people or the Iranian people at some point in the future get hit with a large-scale strike, I'm not going to spend any great amount of tears on the civilian casualties. I mean, I don't like to see civilian casualties in any war, but the are a reality of war. I certainly have less sympathy when the civilians vote in a hardliner.
nobody said:
I am not aware of anything you mentioned above regarding Special Forces masquerading as terrorists. It sounds hard to believe, but anything is possible. If you have some sources you would care to cite, I would certainly look at them, providing they're not ridiculously long or from some partisan nutjob.
From journalists such as Alex Jones, I have heard many of the theories of 9/11. Some of it makes sense on some levels and I have an open mind towards it. But some of it seems hard to believe that NO ONE in the mainstream media would cover it at all. There could have been explosives planted in the towers, but the terrorist element of it is still real. I mean, the planes did hit the buildings the people died and the terrorists did hijack them. I don't believe for a second that a missile and not a plane hit the Pentagon. Where is Barbara Olson if it was a missile? We have people like Mohammed Atta on the airport surveilance cameras ready to board the planes. We have 911 calls and people that managed to call their loved ones on the planes, stating the Arab hijackers had taken control of the plane. That stuff can't be faked or manufactured, on the spur of the moment. Explosives were, at most, on site to finish the job, if they were there at all. The only thing I'm saying is that I think some of these alternative journalists might be on to something, but some of them truly are kooks, such as those that say a plane didn't hit the Pentagon and that the planes that hit the towers were remote controlled.
I am aware of the Northwoods Project and I feel certain that is why Kennedy was really killed. But I still say groups like al-Qaeda are very real, but perhaps some invisible higher layers of government manipulate them.
Wow. Man, that sheds a lot on a situation I really didn't know all that much about. I can understand your disillusionment with your service.
Regarding Jimmy Carter, the man is the greatest embarrassment in the history of the Presidency of the United States. Yes, Bush looks like an incompetent fool at times, but he'll never catch up to Carter. Shit, we're dealing with this situation largely because of Carter's insistance of getting rid of the Shah, which ushered in fundamentalism in Iran. That old fool should stick to building houses or growing peanuts, but he continues to be a cancer that won't go away.
Well, questioning about the possible existence of shadow government is not anti-American. Someone like Alex Jones that takes a hard, honest look, whether his conclusions are right or not or somewhere in the middle, is doing anyone that is concerned about the country a service. Someone like Michael Moore IS anti-American, because his hacket jobs selectively pick every possible scandel or blunder by someone with an "R" next to his party affiliation and selectively ignores everything else. There is no greater good that can come from that kind of journalism.
You lost me a little more on the last part. The term "imperialism" sounds like an extreme-left buzzword. Where is our empire? The calculated murder part lost me a little bit too, but again I'm happy to look at anything you present.
Supra said:
I wouldn't be feeling so eager. Iraq has been a meatgrinder and Iran is prepared for this conflict. If it absolutely needs to happen, I hope we do things right this time and basically weaken things up severely with air campaigns ahead of time.
Stay safe wherever you are.
nobody said:
Well nobody, there no denying that, while the war effort in Iraq was successful the occupation has been a disaster. But Afghanistan appears far more successful. The population was living under one of the most harsh regimes in that part of the world and there are many more freedoms there now. Even the useless UN has expressed the view that the Afghan elections were very successful. And while the verdict is still out, I think the situation has gone really well when you consider just how backwards that society was. That fact that Afghanistan appears to be more stable, politically, right now than Iraq with a society that is less moderate in its religious beliefs and far less educated than the Iraqi population suggests that much of the insurgency is likely the result of outside agitators.
REDZULU2003 said:
RED, I like you alot and I don't want to jump down your throat on this, especially since I asked for opinions, but I really disagree with most of what you said.
If you think they want the weapons for defense, you haven't watched the news. Iran has stated it will wipe Israel off the map and will help destroy the US. Where have the other countries you mentioned above used such strong, aggressive, hostile rhetoric?
I don't beat around the bush on this one for the sake of political correctness. Islam has a serious problem. It is the only major religion that has a portion of its theologians that justify actions such as suicide bombing and terrorist acts from a religious standpoint. Hindus, Christians, Jews, etc. do not have a track record of such actions. The closest thing the anti-Christianity crowd can ever point out is violence against abortion doctors, the whole half dozen physicians that have experienced this. But that is literally a case of a rogue individual, not a supported theology.
Are there muslims that do not desire and condone this violence and wish for a more peaceful society? Yes, I am sure there are. Do some of them experience hostility and unfair discrimination? Yes, I know this happens. Does the muslim community as a whole bare some responsibility for this? Yes, I am convinced they do. You see, here in America years ago the Ku Klux Klan had considerable influence in parts of the country. They called themselves "christians", but any real, legitimate christian group was very quick to denounce them and work in direct opposition to their goals. The muslim community has not done enough of this. Of course, some have, but far too many of what claim to be moderate groups hide behind groups like the ACLU rather than cooperate on any level to weed out problematic elements.
Of course that is their perspective, but it is morally flawed to buy into the argument that all societies have the same goals and intentions. We have been as responsible with our nuclear technology. I know some point out that the US is the only country to ever actually use them thus far, but at that time, no one knew the effects of such weapons. As mentioned already, MaHydromaxoud AHydromaxadinejad has said he will bring down the US and Israel.
Islam has a version of the final days of our civilization, similar in some ways to Christianity. MaHydromaxoud AHydromaxadinejad is reportedly wanting to usher in the arrival of what would be like an Islamic messiah, as best I understand it, who would help conquer the rest of the infidels like us. This man is a religious nut, plain and simple.
Again, with the rhetoric, I just cannot see how.
Hey penguinsfan, it's nice too see you have an open and yet objective mind. As to more proof of the special forces/fake terrorism you can confirm through the following: ABCNEWS online, BBC, The Christian Science Monitor, and the Washington Post, just to name a few. Look for the dates of September 19-20, 05'. There are countless other sources, on-line and otherwise, but many would just say these news sources are just a bunch of kooks because they are not mainstream and therefor unreliable......get my point. 
According to my copy of the ol' Webster ....ahem...
imperialism: 1 : imperial government, authority,or system 2 : the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power of dominion of a nation esp. by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power , authority, or influence
-nobody whistles innocently in the background, head upturned, shit eating grin across his face-
Last time I checked that's American foreign policy s.o.p. Always has been, is as I depress these keys, and will be when I'm gone. "Calculated murder" goes hand in hand with such policy. The "true" government of our nation has always had the average American citizen in their cross hairs. Instead of firing single shot and burst under the cover of night, as was common place these last few decades, they have flipped to full auto and are firing in broad daylight. Call me radical, leftist, communtist, or just plain psycho. My eyes were opened a long time ago and I can't just go back to sleep with the rest of the flock, although I'm sure they sleep much better than I do.
Red, I just as penguinsfan have mad respect for you. I must admit I'm a little insulted that you think my country is the "main devil" in all this. BOTH of our countries are guilty conspirators in this facade of "war on terror". You say what's on your mind and I will always respect that, but that line of thought was completley off base.
In closing penguinsfan I have to address your thought as to why "NO ONE" in the mainstream media has reported on these so called extreme thoeries in regards to 9/11 and the like. They have. When they do it's short and sweet and never to be repeated in further stories or broadcasts by the mainstream. Dan Rather himself had immediately commented on how it looked like the towers had been brought down deliberately as in for construction. The reality is there right in front of the world. Our planet's human populace majority is a lazy animal by nature though. It's easier to just go along with the rest of the flock and follow the shepard without question. I've mention him in the past and I'll mention him again now. Milton William Cooper had an answer for all the doubters out there. How can a conspiracy of such a grand scale go unnoticed. The Manhattan Project was kept airtight and that was during war time. Never underestimate the power of those who have it and want to keep it.
According to my copy of the ol' Webster ....ahem...
imperialism: 1 : imperial government, authority,or system 2 : the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power of dominion of a nation esp. by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power , authority, or influence
-nobody whistles innocently in the background, head upturned, shit eating grin across his face-
Last time I checked that's American foreign policy s.o.p. Always has been, is as I depress these keys, and will be when I'm gone. "Calculated murder" goes hand in hand with such policy. The "true" government of our nation has always had the average American citizen in their cross hairs. Instead of firing single shot and burst under the cover of night, as was common place these last few decades, they have flipped to full auto and are firing in broad daylight. Call me radical, leftist, communtist, or just plain psycho. My eyes were opened a long time ago and I can't just go back to sleep with the rest of the flock, although I'm sure they sleep much better than I do.
Red, I just as penguinsfan have mad respect for you. I must admit I'm a little insulted that you think my country is the "main devil" in all this. BOTH of our countries are guilty conspirators in this facade of "war on terror". You say what's on your mind and I will always respect that, but that line of thought was completley off base.
In closing penguinsfan I have to address your thought as to why "NO ONE" in the mainstream media has reported on these so called extreme thoeries in regards to 9/11 and the like. They have. When they do it's short and sweet and never to be repeated in further stories or broadcasts by the mainstream. Dan Rather himself had immediately commented on how it looked like the towers had been brought down deliberately as in for construction. The reality is there right in front of the world. Our planet's human populace majority is a lazy animal by nature though. It's easier to just go along with the rest of the flock and follow the shepard without question. I've mention him in the past and I'll mention him again now. Milton William Cooper had an answer for all the doubters out there. How can a conspiracy of such a grand scale go unnoticed. The Manhattan Project was kept airtight and that was during war time. Never underestimate the power of those who have it and want to keep it.
REDZULU2003
Well-known member
Penguinsfan, at the end of the day everyone has their own opinion and thats myn, like it or not its how I feel on this issue.
REDZULU2003 said:
I understand that and I didn't mean to come off as a dick to anyone, especially since I threw the topic out for discussion. I understand you're not of an extremely pro-USA mindset from some of your other posts and I suspect some of that is fatigue from this Iraq campaign that seems neverending. There is no denying that the post-war occupation in Iraq has been full of blunders and has been really taxing on the US and its allies, of which the UK is by far the most committed in terms of support and manpower. I can understand you feel like the US throws its weight around at times and that you may not agree with all US policy, as I don't agree with all of it myself. But that doesn't change the rhetoric from Iran and that all indications that nuclear weapons could very well be used for offensive purposes. My real point was you don't have to like us to see we're right to be concerned about this.
REDZULU2003 said:
Could you elobrate on what what makes America the main devil? I'm not trying to goat you. I am simply curious as to how you can reason that Britian is not just as guilty. What does the average British citizen think of what I have mentioned about the recent events involving S.A.S. in Iraq. My guess is that IF it is even widley known it has surely been downplayed to the nth degree. Don't get me wrong I know that U.S. special forces are up the same sin, they just weren't caught red handed at it...yet. Most people reading this thread will think that I have something against the men and women of the military/special forces yet nothing could be further from the truth. What I am against is evil that hides in their ranks and murders in the name of God and country.
Case in point. I asked Supra why he was so gung ho about deploying to Iran and what would such a thing accomplish. He chose not to answer. I know Supra is respected on these boards to a degree and I am not saying he isn't due credit in regards to pe. However, his behavior on these forums while in a position of power speaks volumes as to his character. If somebody didn't support him or follow his views he took it upon himself to delete their posts. Now that same person has government metal in his hands and is representing my country in war. He's all amped about going to another one too. So how do you think he feels about the citizens of these foreign countries? Probably doesn't give a damn and is delighted to put some rounds downrange to effectively "delete" anyone of them without regard, as long as he can get away with it. He doesn't come across as one who thinks before he shoots. I'm all too familiar with his kind and their "Ol' Billy Bob and his shotgun" mentality. I had the misfortune of witnessing such indivduals firsthand during my own enlistment. When the citizens of these foreign countries cross his path he gives them yet another reason and affirmation as to their hatred of America. A whole new generation is now bearing witness to our ignorance. I don't now how many of his posts I had read before his deployment that were basically like "look at me, I'm a Marine, I'm serving my country, I'm a hero!" Blah fucking blah. Real heros don't jump for the spotlight and glory. They do their job because it is the right thing to do, often to their own peril, and they don't expect anything in return. Many members will think I'm an asshole for saying all this and maybe I will be banned but it's the truth, like or not.
nobody said:
Thank you. I will check that stuff out as soon as I get a chance and report back with my thoughts. If you care to do so, post any links from specific stories from the above sources so everyone can easily check this stuff out.
What would you cite as prime examples of this? I can't deny that our own interests play a part in some foreign policy decisions as one can expect, but what are the examples that come to mind for you and have obviously shaped your opinion of US policy over the years?
Some would say our presence in the Arab world itself is imperialism. Well, if that in and of itself is imperialism then Websters should add "an act of commerce" as a new definition to the term, because our economic relations in the Middle East are the reason people are no longer sleeping in tents and riding on camels. I can think of examples where the US has acted or put its weight on somebody and, from what I can see, we had little to gain personally from the situation. For example, I don't see how we personally benefitted from sending the Marines off the coast of Liberia and telling the regime of Charles Taylor to get out or else. I don't see how our attempts to disrupt the warloads in Somalia was any economic or political benefit to us, but simply a benevolent act, though it ended up a dibacle. I don't see the benefit of our actions in the balkans beyond getting rid ot the Milosevic regime, though I think that action was a giveaway to our European allies. In fact, some Albanian muslim groups have ties to al-Qaeda, so it could have been a costly decision. What am I missing here?
I'm not following exactly what you're saying here. Please elaborate.
I know there have been little snipets and people like Alex Jones piece them together and draw their conclusions right or wrong. But if there is overwhelming evidence, this is the kind of thing that would totally make a journalist into a legend. I have heard about rescue workers alleging explosives in the towers, but I have never heard of any of these individuals on any talk show that I'm aware of and there are plenty of talk shows, and not just fly-by-night ones, that would give such people airtime. Again, I am open to this idea of a greater conspiracy, but not clearly convinced at this point.
Well, admittedly it's not hard to pull the wool over our dumbed-down MTV culture. As my favorite talk show host Michael Savage says, we're more concerned with "what slut puked on Sunset Boulevard" than anything related to foreign policy.
Hey penguinsfan. It's almost 3am here and I'm a little groggy so let me preface this by saying I'm not working at all cylinders at the moment. Some prime examples of America's imperialism? Well off the top of my head the near complete genocide of every Native American tribe for starters. I am part of that bloodline so I'll admit it's a point of contention for me but America's hands couldn't have gotten any bloodier on that one. As to more recent examples, hell just throw a rock and you'll hit one. WWII, Vietnam, Nicaragua, and Iraq are pretty obvious just to name a few wouldn't you say? Why do think the world at large thinks so lowly of us? We've earned our reputation I'm sad to say. We go into some foreign land, stir shit up, get some locals all hyped about freedom and how they can get it through us, and when things go bad we leave em' with their dicks in the wind. Take a serious look at our miltary history and not just what they teach you in school textbooks.
I lost you a little on my "cross hairs" analogy so I'll elaborate. For decades upon decades those few outspoken citizens who had a problem with Uncle Sam and his practices, and let him know as much, they have had a history of becoming "history". The powers that be have been highly selective and extremely covert in carrying this all out. That was then. This is now: If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. If you're not a flag waving American patriot you MUST be a leftist, radical, fundlementalist, or even a terrorist. If you're not one of THEM, you're fair game and hunting season is open. They have become much more brazen in who and how they kill. The Constitution is being flushed down the toiltet and America is becoming more and more of a police state while everybody is too caught up on seeing who gets voted off the island this week to notice.
As to how the revealing of all I have brought up about 9-11/false flag terror could make some mainstream jounalist a legend? Come on man, America can't even handle Janet Jackson's nipple. You're not hearing all this in the mainstream because they don't want you to know. The New York Times sat on the whole damning illegal wiretapping by the N.S.A. for a year. What does that tell you about mainstream media reliability and their commitment the the truth? I'm bushed, gotta go, thanks for your interest.
I lost you a little on my "cross hairs" analogy so I'll elaborate. For decades upon decades those few outspoken citizens who had a problem with Uncle Sam and his practices, and let him know as much, they have had a history of becoming "history". The powers that be have been highly selective and extremely covert in carrying this all out. That was then. This is now: If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. If you're not a flag waving American patriot you MUST be a leftist, radical, fundlementalist, or even a terrorist. If you're not one of THEM, you're fair game and hunting season is open. They have become much more brazen in who and how they kill. The Constitution is being flushed down the toiltet and America is becoming more and more of a police state while everybody is too caught up on seeing who gets voted off the island this week to notice.
As to how the revealing of all I have brought up about 9-11/false flag terror could make some mainstream jounalist a legend? Come on man, America can't even handle Janet Jackson's nipple. You're not hearing all this in the mainstream because they don't want you to know. The New York Times sat on the whole damning illegal wiretapping by the N.S.A. for a year. What does that tell you about mainstream media reliability and their commitment the the truth? I'm bushed, gotta go, thanks for your interest.
REDZULU2003
Well-known member
Look guys I aint getting to deep in this because its all going to solve nothing as I can't do anything to start or stop nuclear power in Iran, but I will add this to Penguinsfan; no ... my mindset on this topic isn't influenced by the Iraq war or anything else, its my opinion...simple as.
PS Nobody dont fear of being banned, us Mods dont go around trigger happy banning folk.
PS Nobody dont fear of being banned, us Mods dont go around trigger happy banning folk.
Last edited:
That's cool Red. I can respect that you don't want to get into this, I just thought the details behind your opinions were quite relevant seeing as that you are a British citizen and that you have relatives with S.A.S. backgrounds. I want you to know that I am sincerly sorry for the loss of your brother and the manner in which he was taken from you. One time I had some M60 machine gunners pepper the deck less than twenty feet behind my postion during a training exercise in broad daylight. Friendly fire does happen but too damn much it is caused by plain carelessness.
Off that subject, today when I tried to open the Picture Proof Section and your "war on terrorism" thread in Deep Thoughts I was blocked. The screen said something to the effect "you IP address has been banned by the Administrator". I tried several times with the same result. I'm not saying I have been banned intentionally by a mod, I just don't know why I experiencing this problem now.
Off that subject, today when I tried to open the Picture Proof Section and your "war on terrorism" thread in Deep Thoughts I was blocked. The screen said something to the effect "you IP address has been banned by the Administrator". I tried several times with the same result. I'm not saying I have been banned intentionally by a mod, I just don't know why I experiencing this problem now.
REDZULU2003
Well-known member
nobody said:
Thanks for understanding and I'm angry to hear about the issues your having with that other thread. Is it possible for you to find me the link so I can sort this out ASAP? bare with me.
REDZULU2003
Well-known member
Thats strange because I haven't even done anything or said anything.
Glad its working and if you got ANY problems than us mods are always here.
Glad its working and if you got ANY problems than us mods are always here.
SO, what's everyone's feelings on this now because it feels eerily like January, February of '03. Does anyone feel comfortable having our family members being sent off to Iraq with Rumsfeld and Bush in charge while they want to have more "strategic bombing on key nuclear sites," in Iran? I don't feel safe with our President and nuclear weapons at his disposal so I can't imagine what Iran must think. Iran would really retaliate in Iraq and probably would attack other nations. All of this talk about Iran is too similar to what we heard about Iraq albeit the situations with each country's leaders are vastly different despite how crazy and oppressive each is/was. All of this also seems to fit a pattern with our Administration. Experts and generals are advising against the President's instincts while the interchangeable/infallably unchanging plan is to be followed. All I know is on June 2 Divine Strake and the conventional bomb that will detonate the equivalent of 593 tons of TNT I keep hearing and reading about better not go unnoticed here.
Don't be surprised if that simulation goes well that diplomatic relations break down irreparably between the U.S. and Iran. Don't get me wrong either as I believe Iran is potentially a hostile country and dangerous one if they somehow are one day capable of launching a nuclear assault. The people there shouldn't be bombed off the planet though as if that would solve the real problems at hand. I'm just asking for one reason that favors force that outweighs the potentially disastrous implications that would come with an attack on Iran. Take all this into account as well as the reporting that our intelligence about Iran's nuclear capabilities were damaged with the outing of our favorite NOC officer Valerie Plame as well.(she was part of an operation tracking distribution and acquisition of weapons of mass destruction technology to and from Iran according to former and current intelligence officials)
I also find it very disturbing when I see "analysts" explaining how the U.S. could quickly and needs to quickly take down Iran. Isn't that what was said about Iraq? I trust the military, but I don't believe in the scum that's telling them where they should go. This war is not being planned, but that's only because it's past that stage.
I just look at our own crazy leaders in office and look at their penchant for failed planning and at best horrible judgement and question how the U.S. citizens can believe the best decisions are being made. We all know Bush is set in his ways. Whenever someone disagrees with him he ignores them and they typically are replaced. He will do what he wants so the rest of us can just sit back and try to justify more casualties and hope this doesn't completely break apart our country and its all ready strained international relations. This is about as serious a situation as can be and we have the worst people in charge. My cousins will be back in Iraq for a year beginning next month. I don't even understand it anymore. I used to think that I had a grasp on the systemic backward thinking that seemed merely misguided, but now I see that little benefit of the doubt was my own fault and it is a cold blooded agenda. Our brothers in Iran, may God help you.
Don't be surprised if that simulation goes well that diplomatic relations break down irreparably between the U.S. and Iran. Don't get me wrong either as I believe Iran is potentially a hostile country and dangerous one if they somehow are one day capable of launching a nuclear assault. The people there shouldn't be bombed off the planet though as if that would solve the real problems at hand. I'm just asking for one reason that favors force that outweighs the potentially disastrous implications that would come with an attack on Iran. Take all this into account as well as the reporting that our intelligence about Iran's nuclear capabilities were damaged with the outing of our favorite NOC officer Valerie Plame as well.(she was part of an operation tracking distribution and acquisition of weapons of mass destruction technology to and from Iran according to former and current intelligence officials)
I also find it very disturbing when I see "analysts" explaining how the U.S. could quickly and needs to quickly take down Iran. Isn't that what was said about Iraq? I trust the military, but I don't believe in the scum that's telling them where they should go. This war is not being planned, but that's only because it's past that stage.
I just look at our own crazy leaders in office and look at their penchant for failed planning and at best horrible judgement and question how the U.S. citizens can believe the best decisions are being made. We all know Bush is set in his ways. Whenever someone disagrees with him he ignores them and they typically are replaced. He will do what he wants so the rest of us can just sit back and try to justify more casualties and hope this doesn't completely break apart our country and its all ready strained international relations. This is about as serious a situation as can be and we have the worst people in charge. My cousins will be back in Iraq for a year beginning next month. I don't even understand it anymore. I used to think that I had a grasp on the systemic backward thinking that seemed merely misguided, but now I see that little benefit of the doubt was my own fault and it is a cold blooded agenda. Our brothers in Iran, may God help you.
REDZULU2003
Well-known member
The US gouvernment are fuckin mad and the UK gouvernment is just as bad.
Iran should be allowed Nuclear power and if they want nuke weapons for its defensive purposes like many other nations around the world.
I would have liked the west to make an ally in Iran .... instead we will make another enemy in a region where the west isnt liked much anyway.
Iran wouldnt dare use Nukes against the US like perhaps they fear, as if they would be so stupid .... its all because Iran is a middle eastern country and it seems they cant shake the mud away from past scuffles....such a shame, I have many middle eastern, arab, Jewish freinds here in the UK and its little wonder that they hate the US gouvernment like they do.
Iran should be allowed Nuclear power and if they want nuke weapons for its defensive purposes like many other nations around the world.
I would have liked the west to make an ally in Iran .... instead we will make another enemy in a region where the west isnt liked much anyway.
Iran wouldnt dare use Nukes against the US like perhaps they fear, as if they would be so stupid .... its all because Iran is a middle eastern country and it seems they cant shake the mud away from past scuffles....such a shame, I have many middle eastern, arab, Jewish freinds here in the UK and its little wonder that they hate the US gouvernment like they do.
REDZULU2003 said:
There is nothing to the claim that bombing a country would be protecting the U.S. from nuclear strikes/Israel from nukes because the U.S. would wipe Iran off the map if it did anything. Hell, there is not much evidence that Iran would strike if it could right NOW and there is this looming prospect of warring with Iran. In fact just cross out the looming part. The U.S. has a majestical and itchy trigger finger as far as what countries it will bomb, but it is apparent there needs to be something in it for Halliburton/oil industry first. As for the Iranians I'm sure there is a majority when it comes to the people of Iran who would like to be free from the kind of restrictions they are under and live as people in most of Europe do such as the UK. I know at the least they do not wish to be attacked and certainly not "liberated" in the way the Iraqi people were.
You are absolutely correct about Iran not daring using any future nuclear weapons on the U.S. RED and they wouldn't for the same reason that anyone else wouldn't/shouldn't including the U.S. in that if these weapons were used the rest of the world would be thrown into the mix. There isn't one country that wouldn't condemn such actions as the U.S. bombing Iran and certainly not with nukes. More importantly would be that no country that could actually do something harmful to the U.S. wouldn't stand against the U.S. How much more recklessness can we afford? Iraq has only cost tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of lives perhaps over a hundred thousand lives directly and indirectly from U.S. involvement and tens of billions of dollars in just about 37 months.
I find it amazing that a barrell of crude oil went for 72 bucks today. Any oil coming out of Iraq??? Destablize the region and control resources...The U.S. is in a mess in Iraq and Iran has been on the Administration's sites for a while now, but how would the situation with Iran yield better results with the same leaders? The U.S. military deserves better than the people in Washington right now.
How much worse will things get with another unwarrantable "preventative" war with the U.S. in the area?
REDZULU2003
Well-known member
Obama is building bridges with them which is great to see.
Iran are not an enemy to the west and are against the taliban too.
Iran are not an enemy to the west and are against the taliban too.
penguinsfan;202768 said:
The media refuses to share information with anyone that may cause controversy. They suppress our opinion and our chance to act on specific events, they also spread false and misleading information to gain support for illegal wars and illegal actions.
American will never attack Iran, Iran has a very large amount of oil in which they are freely trading with US for weapons and arms to defend themselves and to gain more political stability within their own country.
America like to take advantage of a situation as long as they are in control, Iran is trading oil in the US dollar so America will continue to profit from this, but if Iran decides to start trading in a more profitable currency like the Euro, then America will probably go to war with Iran, but Iran is a very well defended country, unlike Iraq Iran actually has a strong nuclear and weapon program already in place and has been in place since the early 80's.
American cannot afford to cause criticism from the entire world if they decide to attack a well armed country..
Last edited:
REDZULU2003
Well-known member
The US would never attack Iran and it would be stupid and needless to do so imo and why all this war anyways? why not peace in this world? I have many Iranian freinds and know about the histroy to Iran, also being a fan of some of the current leaders speeches albeit not agreeing with what he always says its the act of putting two fingers up at the USA which I like and wish the UK gouvernment did more of, but thats another story.
Hilary Clinton is an arsehole for keep badgering Iran about its Nuclear powers and so called threats to those moaning murdering Israelis that they will attack them etc and Clinton hit back with comments that the US would wipe Iran off the word map lol what crap ... what gives them the right to say that? Israel has got away with TOO MUCH in the past and now the US with Obama has started to clamp down some, its only because Jews are all over the US senate and have power that they pull the strings to the US system ... it makes me sick!!
The US has had more threat from North Korea, Libya and Pakistan than Iran yet it chooses its victims carefully ... like a playground bully, it would never dare touch North Korea now as its arse would be marked and Pakistan is very unwise, them being a big name in the region with links all over Islam and nuclear powered ... Libya well we all know about the history and imo the innocent man that got jailed in Scotland and thankfully released, all because he was convicted on evidence that he "might" have bought some clothes that ended up in the same suitcase as the bomb. This is shaming indeed ... I have nothing against the US and many nice people come from it but the real terrorists and threat to global peace is the US government!
Hilary Clinton is an arsehole for keep badgering Iran about its Nuclear powers and so called threats to those moaning murdering Israelis that they will attack them etc and Clinton hit back with comments that the US would wipe Iran off the word map lol what crap ... what gives them the right to say that? Israel has got away with TOO MUCH in the past and now the US with Obama has started to clamp down some, its only because Jews are all over the US senate and have power that they pull the strings to the US system ... it makes me sick!!
The US has had more threat from North Korea, Libya and Pakistan than Iran yet it chooses its victims carefully ... like a playground bully, it would never dare touch North Korea now as its arse would be marked and Pakistan is very unwise, them being a big name in the region with links all over Islam and nuclear powered ... Libya well we all know about the history and imo the innocent man that got jailed in Scotland and thankfully released, all because he was convicted on evidence that he "might" have bought some clothes that ended up in the same suitcase as the bomb. This is shaming indeed ... I have nothing against the US and many nice people come from it but the real terrorists and threat to global peace is the US government!
Well politics makes peace impossible. The whole war thing has really gone on for too long, in an open free society like the government claims we have, we should be doing more to stop these wars. People are too lazy and no one cares, well we will care when China or India are bombing us and fucking our women and children, because one day it will happen i f we continue to act like this.
Well you see, USA and all the Allied nations are not "peace keepers" We are the terrorists, we prey on the weak and defenseless and take them over, we steal their resources and lie to the public about them being a threat and an enemy.
Our society has become so stupid we actually b elieve these people pose a threat to us, that is how dumb we have become.
Well you see, USA and all the Allied nations are not "peace keepers" We are the terrorists, we prey on the weak and defenseless and take them over, we steal their resources and lie to the public about them being a threat and an enemy.
Our society has become so stupid we actually b elieve these people pose a threat to us, that is how dumb we have become.
koooky;364631 said:
Dude, ya won't believe it, but: Somebody asked that in another thread and that's a pure-dee sand sculpture. I'd still hit it.
Them kinda crabs ain't so bad at all.
What do ya think it says about the way guys think, that; in a thread about the possibility of nuclear war, and death, and devastation, and destruction we still find time to fully appreciate a fine-ass ass...even if it is just beach sand.
Last edited:
The current war
Dont know much about this but a friend of my dads told me this is only a war over drugs at the moment. And there isnt much plans to start sending guys home.
I may be wrong if anyone has my knowledge on it let me know?
Dont know much about this but a friend of my dads told me this is only a war over drugs at the moment. And there isnt much plans to start sending guys home.
I may be wrong if anyone has my knowledge on it let me know?
- No one is chatting at the moment.
-
MoS Notifier:
Probert1 is our newest member. Welcome! -
MoS Notifier:
Daisy L. is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
lahsfato is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
Lok_ is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
hayxtaro is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
Notagooner is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
Robbyroberts is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
mauzrafo is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
flambria is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
msumone is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
sepilo1017 is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
bhandaripranab36 is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
Scorpio20-> is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
7kingmaker is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
PSP_pumper_1964 is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
Bminkey2 is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
gtveloce is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
5byhbyhtbthb is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
ashaythakur is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
Biggestzeb is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
Welltraveled5 is our newest member. Welcome!
-
MoS Notifier:
Fatsam is our newest member. Welcome!
MoS Notifier:
Fatsam is our newest member. Welcome!