iwant8inches

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http://exodus.to/default2.asp and afa.net

Just looking at some of these headlines and reading just a couple of the news articles that are posted on these actually made me sick to my stomach. Like I had acid reflux for a second there or something. Look at these sites and really read the content. This kind of message is what scares me.

American family my ass. Cross Over ministries???? There's a nice story there, but the motivation behind it is unsettling to me at the least.
 
I only skimmed over the headlines didn't read any of the full articles. So I don't have the full picture.

But what is the main theme of this site as every article one way or another related to homosexuality. Are they for it, against it, converting to it??

If that is the case that they are converting, I already knew the Christian and Catholic church had been infiltrated a long time ago. Those at the top of the church chain don't worship jesus. I read about that then heard lectures from once very Christian believers who sang the same tune.

It was then that I decided to do some research involving the origins of Jesus and Christianity and what I found would make sense with the church's being infiltrated and such.

I wouldn't be surprised if mainstream Christians believed George Bush was the second coming.
 
kausion_420 said:
I only skimmed over the headlines didn't read any of the full articles. So I don't have the full picture.

But what is the main theme of this site as every article one way or another related to homosexuality. Are they for it, against it, converting to it??

the idea of the site is that homosexuals are sinning and if your a practicing homosexual you won't go to heaven, so they are converting (brainwashing) people to go straight.
 
Shithead said:
the idea of the site is that homosexuals are sinning and if your a practicing homosexual you won't go to heaven, so they are converting (brainwashing) people to go straight.

Ah OK

That would make sense then. I have no problem with Christianity or religion but I don't believe in them. To me Christianity is a prison religion.

Anyone who can get themselves high enough in the church can say what they want and people believe because they want to go to heaven. First you useto just have to accept Jesus into your heart, now you must be straight. Next you will have to be tall and athleticly built and never ask questions about your government. It's ridiculous IMO.
 
Personally I dont believe in Chinese whispers. Im not gonna persecute people because of some shit that happened 2000 years ago. Nobody outside america believes a word that comes out of george bush mouth so why the fuck would anyone change their sexuality in the name of a 2000 year old fucker? David Blane does some tricky shit to, but I aint gonna shave my head and freeze my ass in a block of ice.


IMO, chritianity is about as real as Mats 72hour plan, sounds promising but it aint gonna work. Just a teaser to make you pay the membership fee.

My 2c.
 
HungLikeHolmes said:
Personally I dont believe in Chinese whispers. Im not gonna persecute people because of some shit that happened 2000 years ago. Nobody outside america believes a word that comes out of george bush mouth so why the fuck would anyone change their sexuality in the name of a 2000 year old fucker? David Blane does some tricky shit to, but I aint gonna shave my head and freeze my ass in a block of ice.


IMO, chritianity is about as real as Mats 72hour plan, sounds promising but it aint gonna work. Just a teaser to make you pay the membership fee.

My 2c.

Im yet to read about or hear any lecture or speech from a Christian that actually did some reasearch into the origins of Christianity and Jesus that wasn't totally surprised with what they found.

My problem with Jesus and such is that if I can go through what is now history from ancient societies and 10+ of them spanning different parts of the world all have the same character with a different name that has the identical story of Jesus. Same birthday, same character traits, same gifts for his birthday, same style of death. Same fact that besides the point this man was to be the sun of god and this and that noone has any knowledge of where he was from the ages of 12 to 30. Unless you believe he was trained by the Buddists like some say but is not truly documented. Now also these ancient societies didn't believe these myths to be literal but used them to educate the people.

So why is it that all of a sudden the same story then re-occurs hundreds of years later and it is to be taken literally?

But I guess the real answers to the man's existance lie in the Vatican. Problem is, they won't let anyone in there and keep everything locked down. Things like that should be allowed to be publically viewed by highly religious people.
 
I don't think of sites like these to be Christian in the newer sense. And I mean to say I never have likened the word Christian to mean a good person, which it almost always means in those circles. But as to the sites I think there is only an Evangelical allegiance. If any religious sects believe Bush actually believes in any of the things they preach they are dillusional and I feel for them. But as long as groups like the ACLU and NAACP are around I think a progressive society as opposed to a stagnated society in terms of protecting the rights of individuals is possible. I think the one thing all right wing groups (in any country really) have in common with the Evangelicals is that they believe in keeping things traditional or the same as they currently are. The Evangelicals believe their morals are universal and should apply to everyone and it should be enforced that way in government since afterall it is what God intended. They'd like to see government step in a bit more and tell us "no" more often in certain issues. The issues that are big to them are the ones that really are too sensitive to really have any definitive ruling as to whether or not something should be legal (abortion for instance), if that made any sense to you guys. Gay Marriage I guess is another issue. It just seems so strange to me that someone can get so worked up about something that really doesn't hurt anyone or anything and it simply should not be of anyone elses concern. So when homosexuality is viewed as a disease or some kind of phase a person goes through... to me that indicates there is a loathing there and an actual lack of acceptance. There's a story on one of the sites where a "former" lesbian was accepted and was treated perfectly normal by her new Christian friends even though they knew of her "lifestyle." I don't even know what that means. Lifestyle. As if all throughout her life her day was completely different to anyone else. Like she flies to work every morning on her broom or bathes in a seething caldron because she happens to eat off the carpet or that's munches carpet my bad. Truly to me I think the Evangelicals for the most part (I can't group everyone that'd be wrong) if they could have it so no one on earth was homosexual they'd do whatever they must to make it happen. Apparently it's important enough for some to have a website dedicated to some kind of breakthrough testimonial/story about how they overcame their temptation, their sin.

Unless it's going to be you personally throwing me into hell or lifting me to heaven when I go... back off bitch. That's my opinion.
 
kausion_420 said:
Im yet to read about or hear any lecture or speech from a Christian that actually did some reasearch into the origins of Christianity and Jesus that wasn't totally surprised with what they found.

My problem with Jesus and such is that if I can go through what is now history from ancient societies and 10+ of them spanning different parts of the world all have the same character with a different name that has the identical story of Jesus. Same birthday, same character traits, same gifts for his birthday, same style of death. Same fact that besides the point this man was to be the sun of god and this and that noone has any knowledge of where he was from the ages of 12 to 30. Unless you believe he was trained by the Buddists like some say but is not truly documented. Now also these ancient societies didn't believe these myths to be literal but used them to educate the people.

So why is it that all of a sudden the same story then re-occurs hundreds of years later and it is to be taken literally?

But I guess the real answers to the man's existance lie in the Vatican. Problem is, they won't let anyone in there and keep everything locked down. Things like that should be allowed to be publically viewed by highly religious people.

It's about control of knowledge. You know that and everyone else does as well. The history of the world could never be completely written, but the things that have been recorded are controlled, lost, or destroyed. I'd like to know what's in there too. Maybe some day...
 
I think the Homosexuals should counteract: Start a site to stop Christianity and turn all the Christians Gay!!! :D
 
Shithead said:
could you elaborate on that please?

Think you are going to have to wait until someone with the same opinion that knows how to express it decides to post.
 
I looked at that site... and it made me sick to the gut. Religious fascism like that should be outlawed.
I've also yet to see a person with a strong religious conviction who has actually done his/her homework on the origins of Christianity. As You said, Kausion, it's based on a character that has been portrayed almost identically in the folklore of several different peoples throughout early history. The character that Jesus was portrayed to be isn't uniquely Christian by any means.

I see Christianity and other religions as a comfortable safety net (heaven DOES sound like a good deal, even to me) into which you are initiated through generations of similarily misguided people before you who have passed the burden down to you because that is what they were told to believe in, and see as the right thing to do. The heaven vs hell scenario also serves as a powerful deterrent to keep people in the ranks... god forbid your soul should rot in hell if you don't adhere to a strict code of worship and obediance of some vague, omnipotent entity, no matter how morally righteous you are otherwise. What also never ceases to surprise me is that a lot of "Christians" think they will get a free pass to heaven as soon as they die. That is another misconception that should be corrected. The whole rite of burial is based on the hope of your body being reincarnated once this very shady Jesus character makes his second coming to earth, and only IF you've been a good boy and kissed his 2000 year old ass for your entire life without ever stopping to think about why you're doing it. Once you're dead, YOU REALLY ARE DEAD until Jesus comes and brings you back to life. That's how the original version was, until man twisted it around to suit his agenda, and make the whole religion seem much more tempting and rewarding.

What the Early Church Taught

But astounding as it may seem, neither Jesus nor His apostles taught that the righteous go to heaven! Notice the admission of a secular encyclopedia:

"The dominant view in the early church seems to have been that until the return of the Lord upon the clouds of heaven to raise the dead, those who had died were asleep, and that they would be suddenly awakened to be given their new bodies, after which they would reign with Him on earth for a thousand years..." (The New International Encyclopedia, art. "Heaven," vol. 9, pp. 700-701).

The early Church clearly did not teach the concept of "going to heaven." Such teachings did not become popular until long after the death of the apostles!

Notice, however, what gradually happened:

"But, largely under the influence of Greek thought, other conceptions [gradually] prevailed. The fate of the patriarchs, prophets, and pious men of the old dispensation naturally occupied much attention and led to the idea that they [their "immortal souls"] were detained in a preparatory abode which the fathers called limbus patrum, awaiting the advent of the Redeemer. The general belief of Christians has been that since the resurrection of Christ the just who are free from sin are admitted immediately after death into heaven, where their chief joy consists in the unclouded vision of God" (ibid.).
 
I would just like to add something to this little discussion. While several similar characters to Jesus do exist in other religions, they do not play quite the same role as Jesus does to Christians. In the case of most other religions, however, the characters which I assume you are referring are divinely inspired in their stories, and often ackonwledged as prophets by their respective religions. In fact Jewish and Muslim people I believe acknowledge Jesus as one of many prophets, but not as part of the Holy Trinity as Christians do. Of course they all did preach a similar message of tolerance and (dare I say it) love, and in most cases they were also persecuted and ultimately killed for their beliefs (don't personally see why that similarity is so far-fetched it was a pretty harsh time, but I 'm sure there are reasons). So while characters with similar lives to Jesus are portrayed, Jesus, and the role Christians believe he played is exclusively theirs.
While every religion has their undesirable parts that aren't very attractive socially, religion in itself isn't such a bad thing. I'm sure many practitioners don't see it as "kissing Jesus' 2000 year old ass" as Shafty put it, but really whats the worst that happens if you believe in something bigger then yourself. Say you believe and your wrong: you live a life of hope and (hopefully) are seen as a good person who is missed when they die and go the same way as everyone else. Whats the worst that happens if you don't believe and you are wrong: You potentially have a pretty unpleasant afterlife. Not trying to change anyones mind about anything because this can be a touchy subject, but there seems to be only one side to this thread so far.
 
In regards to Horus, Krishna, Mythra, Tamos etc.. who had identical lives to Jesus, these characters were seen by the ancients as mythological characters. Not to be taken literally, just to educate those societies about the action the sun takes throughout the year.

Then hundreds of years later comes Christianity with the same main story as the others only different name and is taken literally.
 
bIgjOe said:
but really whats the worst that happens if you believe in something bigger then yourself.

worst thing that could happen... you kill millions of people in the name of that person and their beleifs.



i have nothing wrong with people having beliefs, i have my own beliefs. but i think the problem is when people affect people other than themselves through actions based on their beleifs.
 
Shithead said:
i have nothing wrong with people having beliefs, i have my own beliefs. but i think the problem is when people affect people other than themselves through actions based on their beleifs.

And this tends to be a major problem since "getting the word out" and spreading the belief is a major part of Christianity.

I have met some really great and genuine Christian people, they do exist. I tend to take the functionalist perspective, similar to what shafty described.
 
Shithead said:
worst thing that could happen... you kill millions of people in the name of that person and their beleifs.



i have nothing wrong with people having beliefs, i have my own beliefs. but i think the problem is when people affect people other than themselves through actions based on their beleifs.

Excellent Post.

Also my biggest problem with the Christian religion other than the similarities I found is that you are eliminating all possibility without knowing for sure. You then believe your sight on it is the absolute truth and close your mind to any other possibilites. And like you said in many cases wars have been caused due to religion effecting other people.

I like dealing with all possibility and not feeling I have to conform to a prison religion.
 
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