i don't want to do this anymore

i am so tired of having to defend my views about circumcision...why can't some people seem to understand that it is, at best, unnecessary, often times more damaging than most people believe, sometimes even fatal...i don't understand why some people just keep ignoring the mounting evidence against it...why they also have to attack me, try to discredit me, and even emotionally assault me, when i am only trying to reach out to men who may have suffered from it...i am not the smartest guy in the world nor the dumbest...i am probably one of the more outspoken proponents of FR on the internet currently...but i am still only human...and i am personally trying to come to terms with my own sense of loss and restore something that i felt was vital and valuable...its hard sometimes to try to change popular thought because it makes you a target...and sometimes the shots people take at you hurt...i know that not everyone feels that circumcision is a bad thing...does that make my own feelings meaningless because it is not the popular one...i'm tired and i'm going home and going to bed...i'll get up tomorrow and get right back at it, but right now i just don't want to do this anymore...

If you think I'm trying to hurt you emotionally or otherwise underminde your confidence, that is to say if you think this is in any way personal . . . then well, this is just getting very weird.

It is not, has never been, and never will be personal. I've explained my reasons for posting repeatedly. You've also repeatedly said that you're making me look like a fool and clearly stomping my sili opinions into the dirt, so why are you so down in the dumps about it? If anything, based on your previous announcements of rhetorical dominance, you should be feeling pretty good about slamming a naysayer. What gives?

Kong, I must say, everytime we get into this from any angle, you always come around after the threads get long and accuse me or others of personally trying to screw with you just for sport or something. You then portray yourself as a humble martyr and go on to recount once more your own personal trauma regarding circumcision, for which I do hold sympathy for you (though one could construe your bad experiences and fixation on it as a reasonable argument that you aren't totally objective about the matter . . .). You always cap these posts off be misrepresenting the arguments (read: everything I've been saying this whole time) of those debating with you. Cold as it may seem, I'll say what I've said before:

It's a bloody internet forum! Buck up man, for crying out loud. If people expressing different ideas on the matter that conflict with yours, and then arguing about them with you is too mcuh too handle, then sheesh, I don't even know what to tell you. Let's not forget you're the one that has lobbed numerous insults at me this whole time, even referring to 'fucking my ideas in the ass' or some such poetic metaphor. You've called me a moron and an idiot and a snob over and over again. All I've done is try to flush this issue out, debate some of your claims, and make my own point of view clear.

it was a debate six hours ago, swank...yes, it is getting weird...if you merely wanted to post a dissenting viewpoint in our foreskin restoration forum, one or two would have been sufficient...but this is terribly persistent and needlessly argumentative...and even a little hurtful...it suggests a personal agenda...go to bed...you've made your points...

...okay, I have waited for even more posts to come, but so far none...i promised to keep answering because I believe in FR and don't want swank's negativity to dissuade someone who might benefit from it...but goddam, I am tired... It's one thing to post a dissenting view, but another to keep grinding on it...

kong1971 said:

i am so tired of having to defend my views about circumcision...why can't some people seem to understand that it is, at best, unnecessary, often times more damaging than most people believe, sometimes even fatal...i don't understand why some people just keep ignoring the mounting evidence against it...why they also have to attack me, try to discredit me, and even emotionally assault me, when i am only trying to reach out to men who may have suffered from it...i am not the smartest guy in the world nor the dumbest...i am probably one of the more outspoken proponents of FR on the internet currently...but i am still only human...and i am personally trying to come to terms with my own sense of loss and restore something that i felt was vital and valuable...its hard sometimes to try to change popular thought because it makes you a target...and sometimes the shots people take at you hurt...i know that not everyone feels that circumcision is a bad thing...does that make my own feelings meaningless because it is not the popular one...i'm tired and i'm going home and going to bed...i'll get up tomorrow and get right back at it, but right now i just don't want to do this anymore...

Click to expand...

kong, do you even realise what your talking about, its a bloody forskin, get over it.

Read the sticky at the top of the forum if you are not intelligent enough to realize that swank's main intention was to make me look like a crank. So much easier to dismiss a "crazy person".

That would be pretty easy to misconstrue as a shot at me, AC. Figure you'd get a few shots in now that swank has worked me over pretty good?

Shithead, you're an ass and need to just worry about your dick size. Why are you even here in the foreskin forum? That's been your ONLY contribution to this endless debate (read: roast).

after defending myself all day and night from swank, aares and now you and shithead, I'm sorry if I fail to see the humor of it

You're comparing me to someone who brainwashed his followers into not only castrating themselves but commiting suicide!

You guys are hopeless!

My wife once got mad at me and said, "All you men want to hear is how big your dicks are and how you're the best lay ever!" You know, I think she's right. I am begining to think that FR implies some kind of insult against the manhood of some of you more insecure men, and the reaction is this thoughtless hostility.

I think I really am done here, guys.

I am going to be browsing the internet today for a more open sexuality forum from which to spread the word. FR is just conflicting too much with the penis size issues and insecurities here.

I'm a restorer and I even think that kong you are acting like a diva. I mean shit this is the internet. You make it sound like people are stupid if they aren't into FR. You say that you want people to accept your viewpoint but you don't accept theirs. When I first heard about FR I thought it was the stupidest thing but now I do it constantly. For my own reasons. If I had no problem that I was doing it for than I wouldn't do it. So if someone doesn't have a problem are they gonna go out of there way to do FR? No. I mean the mentions to FR from you are constant even in unrelated things. Its like how you also bash people for not being half gay like you or something. YOU don't accept other people's opinions. You are a drama queen. Like when you posted that you were so upset about people PMing you with gay advances towards you and your pictures, then you proceed to post about your graphic fantasy about Supra. I mean I talk about FR sometimes and no one gets pissed at me cause I don't chase after people trying to make people accept it. And you know why? Cause I don't care. Its nice that you are trying to change the world but seriously by being some guy with naked pictures of himself on the web. Go become a uroligist or something. I mean really you said above that you don't want swank posting against it I mean why. Will that stop you from doing it? No. And I truly believe that women like the looks of a cut penis better. I just restore for a different reason and you have to take the bad with the good. Oh and kong I read your post at the other forum, that new one about how you single handidly got DLD to put up the FR forum. I think there were other people asking him too. Lets move this on to something more meaningful: What do you guys like better, thin crust or thick crust pizza? I like thin.

Kong, I'm more than happy to keep discussing this in a non-argumentative and adult manner. As you said, the conversation just catches people's interest and circulates more information, so what's the harm? We can agree to not say a word about each other personally and just talk about the issues.

On that note, I disagree with your statement that all men who don't buy into FR are sexually insecure.

Kong, don't you know that most of what you see posted in these Internet forums is bullshit? You should never take other people here too seriously.

There are good Yahoo Groups to discuss foreskin restoration. Occasionally some of the guys get into a hissy fit, but since it's a free for all, you just
have to sometimes hit delete or skip over some posts and choose not to let
others get to you.

You know that you are doing something good for you, and that making others aware of circumcision and why it is an unnecessary mutilation is important. If some people don't get it, f*ck 'em. So what? Not everyone is going to be as enlightened as you. Move on.

PM me if you would like some leads to other places to discuss this that are more constructive.

Bottom line: do your restoration because you know it's right for you, not because it might make your popular in an Internet forum.


Bgrand.

Ditto.

Kong, Ive said all along, to me you're just a stranger online who happens to hold opinions that I find false and negative towards a lot of men.

This is a Penis Enlargement forum. FR is just a minor field of debate within the greater world penis aleration and it's possibilities. The idea is to explore those possibilities, from either end.

You have professed in the past to have a very open mind, as well as accused me of being a very close-minded person. If your mind is so open, then be free to criticism of your claims and welcome debate over FR and circumcsion.

You've made some very encouraging posts as of late, and you clearly have plenty of support for your point of view, so let's not allow this to become personal ever again.

From now on and forever forth, should I raise a point of fact about the benefits of FR, or the detriments of circumcision, or anything in between, let's take it as a topic of debate rather than an attack on each other (should you posit a returning statement, which, as always, I welcome). That way more knowledge about the issue at large can be shared and our own understanding of male sexuality and anatomy can only be increased.

Sound Good?

In other words, swank, I have to check with you first before I say anything, right? I can't just be myself. Whatever. I was in a really good mood this morning. I thought about it all night long. I thought, Yeah, I'm being too negative. I'm not thinking about all the positive stuff. I'm turning off all the guys who might be interested in it because I am letting myself get too influenced by all the horror stories. Then I get on here and I see it is even worse today than yesterday. The gist of what I read is that I MUST CONFORM! That's basically what you are all saying, right? You and AC and a couple others. It seems that way to me. If that's not the case, then enlighten me.

Yes Kong: Conform to my ideals!

Those ideals are:

Allow and accept differing viewpoints.

Address questions or doubts about your information and claims like an adult.

Do not make yourself out to be a victimized and abused person for being questioned on the internet.

Don't make profane and useless personal insults whenever your ideas are questioned.

*Of course you have every right to be a non-confmorist, but I don't think any of those criteria are supressing your ability to be an independent thinker or expressive person are they? All I want is that the option of debate is always open around here without explosion, and that other views can be expressed.

I will admit that those are my failings and I will try to do better about those things in the future if you will admit to needling me and trying to make me explode. I will try to keep my temper when questioned if you will stop questioning every single statement I make. Compromise it something adults do, too.

Agreed with pleasure.

kong1971 said:

You're comparing me to someone who brainwashed his followers into not only castrating themselves but commiting suicide!

You guys are hopeless!

My wife once got mad at me and said, "All you men want to hear is how big your dicks are and how you're the best lay ever!" You know, I think she's right. I am begining to think that FR implies some kind of insult against the manhood of some of you more insecure men, and the reaction is this thoughtless hostility.

I think I really am done here, guys.

I am going to be browsing the internet today for a more open sexuality forum from which to spread the word. FR is just conflicting too much with the penis size issues and insecurities here.

Click to expand...

Kong can I just say that you have my full support in what you preach, and to simply fuck the naysayers. If your words that you preach fall on one mans ears whom it transforms there lives, then you have done an amazing thing, but you see you already have acheived this, you got me looking it up when you first joined MOS, and now look at me, as dedicated as you are and everyday that one step closer to being whole.
Don't ever give up your words of wisdom, keep in there doing the thing you do.
Peace.

I've never been closed minded toward what youve posted Kong. Youre just a lot more convicted than most men about this subject. Nothing wrong with having conviction....having your heart in what you believe in. FR definitely is a good thing that can benefit most if not all men. Like I've said before, only reason I'm not currently doing it is because I'm a hanger anyway, and hanging seems to be giving foreskin back indirectly as a side effect. Although more slowly than a direct approach would I'm sure.

I'm contemplating getting something like a CATII and just going ahead and hanging when I get back into it in the next few weeksish and doing FR when I'm not hanging.

Kong, most people that wish to change others must do so while facing great opposition. It wasn't easy for guys like Copernicus to convince people that the Heliocentric model was correct. While it may not be the best analogy, the opposition you face is just as great.

I urge you to keep posting here and grow even thicker skin (metaphorically :D ), and perhaps tone down your message to draw less attention from the naysayyers. There will always be those who try to discredit you, but you have growing evidence while your opposition's support is shrinking. You are part of a revolution, remember those you have helped and those you may help in the future.