Discuss

doublelongdaddy said:

Man has always taken a pleasure, a God given pleasure, twisted it, created a fetish from it, deemed it sinful and deprive himself of the pleasure. Somehow man has always made pleasure a sin and depriving oneself from pleasure as a sacrifice to God. The human race is very STRANGE!

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I believe it was deemed sinful by the church, Thus feeding into my "organised religion is bad" belief. I follow my own dogma, per se, with a semi-deist view.

However, I'm curious to find, other than what DLD has stated in this quote, that no one has even talked about the relationship of church/temple/ w/e to the mass that follows its dogma. Everytime I debate this topic with anyone I only conclude that religion is an addiction. In High enough doses there is a euphoria, there is sort of a withdrawal (if you go against the religion there is always some punisHydromaxent, and I'm sure anyone feels bad about being punished). Mainly The church is like the dealer in that they can get their junkies to do anything for this drug (spiritual content with the afterlife/dying).

How do you guys view the church as it relates to those it governs?

The Rasta-Christ

I am unfamiliar with this effect myself however, given the habitual nature of man it doesn't surprise me. So your pretty right on with that drug dealer analogy, which is highlighted by the fact that most churches make lots of money. There are these new super churches which have several thousand members each and are EXTREMELY LUCRATIVE. I've always found the Christian Church quite ironic seeing as its name sake, Jesus disliked the church of his day (especially when it took money). Of course his message that all man are born with an equal connection to God had to be removed in order to keep the church at the center of religion.

On circumcision; Both my friend and his father are pediatricians in Boston and they told me that circumcision actually leads to more infections. However because in western culture proper hygiene for uncut men was unknown, those who remained uncut usually developed something nasty from which it was deduced that it must be cleanly to be circumcised. The whole concept seems pretty kooky to me so perhaps it did come from sacrificial ritual. I've done some reading and there seems to bea lot more problems medically associated with circumcision including over sensitivity. In theory it should slow Penis Enlargement gains but I haven't seen anything to make me believe this.

I guess I would be considered a shithead if I said that believed in Christianity?

Just to reply to what Rasta said..I think you have a valid argument. I think many churches go way too far. I would like to offer myself as an exception though. For example I am depressed, I do a lot of bad things, I hate going to church on sunday, I am unsure of whats going to happen when I die and I hate people that rub their religion into people's faces but I still believe in Jesus Christ.

I can see where many people do not believe in a God but I have decided to believe personally. I like free speech and I don't like anything that goes against that.

I just want to make sure my MOS brothers don't put me in the same category as many arrogant, intolerant religious people!

Christafarian said:

... How do you guys view the church as it relates to those it governs?

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I view the church as lying, coniving, hypocritical, preverted thieves as they relate to their congregation. Religion is nothing but our ignorant grandparent's grasp for answers for things they couldn't explain... two thousand years ago, our grandparents weren't smart enough to grasp the idea that the world was round and we're supposed to continue believing their explanation of how the world was created?? Give me a break... religion and god is a crock.

One helluva money making crock too! I wish I could start a multi-million dollar business, and call it "non profit" :s

Ah yes the Chrisitian religion. Although I don't dispute that there are many goos christians and a lot of good work is done by the church the Christian religion is one that was invented for the control of the people. The roman empire needed a religion that would suit everyone and help them maintain there grip on the people because brute force can only do so much. So Emperor Constantine at the council of Nicea mixed and mashed the old pagan religion and bits of new christianity together and created the religion we know today as the Roman Catholic church. The idea basically is everyone is worried about what happens to them after they die and we all want to go to heaven. So we have the golden ticket and if you want to get in you have to do what we say and live by our rules, give money to the church etc and anyone who says different or challenges this gets it. That is why the Roman Catholic church came about (Historic fact), however there is a truth that runs deeper as the early christians in the 300 years after Jesus taught in there homes and there were many gospels not just the four synoptic gospels. These were surpressed and mostly destoyed and were unknown until they were discovered in the caves of Qumran (dead sea scrolls) and at Nagahamadi. They are called the Gnostic gospels and although not complete tell very different stories to Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. For example there are the gosples of Judas (very recently put back together), Mary Magdalene, Thomas and many more. They were probably for the more advanced level of christians in the early church but were dismissed as heretical by the early church although some historians dispute this saying that they just became disused because the other 4 were better. The idea was that you gained enlightenment through Gnosis (knowledge) very similar to the budhist concept but if you do this you realise that God does not live in a church. And there was the problem for the Romans so this is why this version of events only recently came to light.

mlb092 said:

I guess I would be considered a shithead if I said that believed in Christianity?

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lol I don't believe that was the intention of anyones argument and if it was, it is only a projection of the shit in their head pity them if you like but I think it is better to nurture them, for "of his pity for man hath god died" rather LOVE (not really laughing i just like that smiley better). Personally I think that most people go to church are good people (though maybe some feel they need to go there to be forgiven for their deeds which in my opinion is preposterous. The only who can forgive you, is you.) and churches do a lot of good in their community. When I go to Church with my mom I am pleased with what I hear about their programs. However I feel that the services (non-faith based) they are providing should not be their burden to do so, rather we, the essence of the community should do good by ourselves and use our means, (governments and so on) to create a constructive and uplifting social system. The church is good because it provides the moral foundation which is not present in the mainstream society. So some would say its ironic now, that we essentially need the church until we assume control of ourselves and our environment. Morality and ethics have no creed; yet institution wise, church is where they still cling to life (at least ostensibly). Why do we spend so much money and resources on policing ourselves when we have created nothing to protect? Nothing wholesome to replace these "bad" things with? I think we can also acknowledge the religion in its abstract sense, as faith or discipline or morality and even just as word, has never done anything period - let alone kill people, plunder, abuse power or do anything which we may define as objectionable. I think that man has only used these unfinished, unknown ideas as excuses to do whatever he likes - because how can you argue against something which is unspeakable or faith-based? Perhaps this clears their own mind of any guilty they might otherwise have. In this light, it is more reasonable to ask, not how would God feel about your actions or thoughts, but how do you feel about them. Forget that you have convinced yourself there is some mysterious thing watching over you. How can you enjoy yourself when you cant truly know the disposition of an entity who governs your fate? If you believe in God then God will forgive you if you forgive yourself. - If you don't believe in God or don't have a religion then you are probably just fooling yourself because your belief in random probability is still a notion to which you have attached the experience of yourself, your interactions, observations and interpretations; faith in chaos is faith none the less. - Right and wrong are common sense and need no judgment but your own.

:s sorry for rambling on so much but I love nothing more; few things are more healthy than a good discussion (and most of the others involve too little expression ) especially these topics in this time.


live long and prosper

mlb092 said:

I guess I would be considered a shithead if I said that believed in Christianity?

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Never. Your free to believe in whatever you want, my only problem is the people who allow themselves to be blinded by religion from facts or atleast significant relationships.

That whole free speech thing, Unless the person using free speech is an idiot, than I'll back it 100%.

Your other post has me wondering, if you believe in Christ, but you hate going to church on sunday, then why do you go? I was raised southern baptist and as far as I remember There aren't any scriptures that say you have to go to church on sunday, just that you should worship him more so on the sabbath. correct me if I got anything wrong.

Dr. J said:

The church is good because it provides the moral foundation which is not present in the mainstream society. So some would say its ironic now, that we essentially need the church until we assume control of ourselves and our environment.

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I don't know about that, I'm sure we could rely on Disney
movies . I'd be quite curious to see a world without any religion, ever. Just to compare it to this one.

If we had no religion, how would our technology be affected? would we be in space? etc.

I should lay off the green for a little while, I just ranted about weird imaginary mutant cults before i remembered what I actually wanted to write lol. Like when you get off topic and you just roll with it.

The Rasta-Christ

PS: Here's my mutant cult rant:

It may be the four bowls I smoked earlier but this has me thinking. If there were a modern day dark age how would religion be absorbed by society? If I remember right from history classes, the original dark ages helped to further feed the church's power (coming out of the dark ages) since they could scare people into joining the church more easily. But if there is another dark age I think it will be much larger scale and alot more people will be useless (no skills for survival). I definitely think that with cults being ever so popular now, it could turn into an "Escape from LA/NY" kinda world with weird mutant cults.

sikdogg said:

I view the church as lying, coniving, hypocritical, preverted thieves as they relate to their congregation. Religion is nothing but our ignorant grandparent's grasp for answers for things they couldn't explain... two thousand years ago, our grandparents weren't smart enough to grasp the idea that the world was round and we're supposed to continue believing their explanation of how the world was created?? Give me a break... religion and god is a crock.

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Exactly my thoughts. Religion is a very touchy subject. When it comes down to it, any religion may be what you said above, but in all actuality, it is very intelligent, sleek, sly. I would say the assurance of living forever in some magical paradise and the assertion that we have souls, throws off our ever so idiosyncratic egos.

I assume most of you are familiar with Bertrand Russel's teapot analogy:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

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That sums up to a "t" exactly how I feel about religion/God.

Kal-el said:

I assume most of you are familiar with Bertrand Russel's teapot analogy:



That sums up to a "t" exactly how I feel about religion/God.

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I assume you believe in the flying spaghetti monster?

The Rasta-Christ

Christafarian said:

I assume you believe in the flying spaghetti monster?

The Rasta-Christ

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I have seen it

stillwantmore2 said:

One helluva money making crock too! I wish I could start a multi-million dollar business, and call it "non profit" :s

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Don't forget the mind, heart, soul control benefit. Hard to give more power than mind, heart, soul and money.

Following up on my previous participation on page 1: http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/258588-post10.html

......Anybody who has the slightest interest in this topic should watch the following video:

ZEITGEIST, The Movie - Official Release - Full Film

Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007

The first 5 minutes is almost useless. The next 2.5 minutes provide decent context. It gets perfectly on topic of this thread starting with a George Carlin clip at 7:45 ZEITGEIST, The Movie - Official Release - Full Film . George always has done, and Bill Hicks always did, pretty well with the topic.

From the 10 minute mark to the 36m45s mark (a mere 26m45s requiring your attention), it is very educational and perfectly on topic.

You may find the rest of the 2 hour video interesting, but the rest is off topic.

Best to all my fellow monkeys.

PenilePersist said:

Best to all my fellow monkeys.

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^^That reminded me of Joe Rogan:

I haven't found the link to the video, but here's the quote:

Joe Rogan said:

"'I didn't come from a fucking monkey man, I didn't come from a monkey!' You ever have that conversation with people? 'I didn't come from a monkey!' Okay.....I don't know where we came from, BUT! I do know, that those super smart dudes, they've mapped out the the Human Genome and we are 96 to 99% chimpanzee. Now, If I gave you a sandwich, and it was 99% shit, and 1% ham, are you gonna call that a ham sandwich?!"

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Joe on Noah's Ark: YouTube - Joe Show

He's got plenty of good material. Pick up his latest DVD - Shiny Happy Jihad.

Here's another one of his favorite theories on our species:

Joe Rogan said:

"We are just a complex form of bacteria, thats all we are, and there are biological tricks that make it so we keep the species moving forward"

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YouTube - Joe Rogan talks about DMT

I've done many drugs. I somehow skipped DMT. I've added it to the "to do" list.

Till next time, peace to my fellow bacteria - lol

PenilePersist;271266 said:

Till next time, peace to my fellow bacteria - lol

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very good!