Transdermal test experiment

[Gardenier90]

You're kidding right?

 

[quijjiboo]

You're kidding right?

[sarcasm]No, I though my month's goal of 20X14 was a little unrealistic so I bumped it down a little.[/sarcasm]

 

[ItsElectric]

[sarcasm]No, I though my month's goal of 20X14 was a little unrealistic so I bumped it down a little.[/sarcasm]

lol

-ItsElectric

 

[mike2003]

I'm thinking of buying the 4derm product, but I am concerned about the possible risks involved. I'm currently taking beta blockers to keep a regular heart rhytHydromax. Is there risk of hairloss, increase in estrogen (resulting in bitch tits), or enlarged prostrate?

 

[quijjiboo]

I'm thinking of buying the 4derm product, but I am concerned about the possible risks involved. I'm currently taking beta blockers to keep a regular heart rhytHydromax. Is there risk of hairloss, increase in estrogen (resulting in bitch tits), or enlarged prostrate?

I have to say yes, it is possible for those sides to happen. But I think the chances are very slim.

See 4AD does not aromatize (convert to estrogen), but around 15% of it converts to testosterone in the body, which will aromatize (some of it). So the estrogenic side effects would be equivalent to that of dose of testosterone 15% of how much 4AD you're taking.
The average dose of 4AD is around 2-400mg/day. Because of the absorption rate of a transdermal is not 100%, somewhere around 25-35%, you are absorbing (say you apply 400/day) 120mg/day. This works out to a total of an extra 126mg of testosterone per week. And this is very close to the dose doctors use for testosterone replacement therapy (which is obviously pretty safe), so thoery says you don't have to worry about estrogen.

About the hairloss and prostate, bad news is it's still possible. 4AD is androgenic by nature. However you do only have a small amount of conversion to DHT from the testosterone as I shown above.

In the real world, I have talked to many people and spent lots of time on bodybuilding msg boards (guys there sometimes take more than pros) who use 4AD and these side effects are rare.
I don't know anything about the interactions of 4AD and beta-blockers.

 

[WideAwake]

I have to say yes, it is possible for those sides to happen. But I think the chances are very slim.

See 4AD does not aromatize (convert to estrogen), but around 15% of it converts to testosterone in the body, which will aromatize (some of it). So the estrogenic side effects would be equivalent to that of dose of testosterone 15% of how much 4AD you're taking.
The average dose of 4AD is around 2-400mg/day. Because of the absorption rate of a transdermal is not 100%, somewhere around 25-35%, you are absorbing (say you apply 400/day) 120mg/day. This works out to a total of an extra 126mg of testosterone per week. And this is very close to the dose doctors use for testosterone replacement therapy (which is obviously pretty safe), so thoery says you don't have to worry about estrogen.

Do you think you can apply 400mg/day (absorb 120mg/day) via just using the gel on your penis?

That seems a little high to me, as I would think (from experience) that you can only get about 1ml-2ml or so of gel on the penis at one time, and usually you're not going to be able to get more than 50mg/ml of 4ad in solution at any one time.

So you apply 2ml, at 50mg/ml, you have 100mg on you penis, and than use the 30% rule for absorption to get you to 30mg per app (60mg per day) on your penis.

Right?

Or are you going to be applying the 4ad to other spots as well (delts, tris, etc...)? Though then you're just basically running a transdermal ph stack.

For what it's worth...I would use the site specific gel that one of the companies came out with (used to be Avant Labs Gel#3) and some 3alpha or 5aa....

 

[quijjiboo]

Do you think you can apply 400mg/day (absorb 120mg/day) via just using the gel on your penis?

That seems a little high to me, as I would think (from experience) that you can only get about 1ml-2ml or so of gel on the penis at one time, and usually you're not going to be able to get more than 50mg/ml of 4ad in solution at any one time.

So you apply 2ml, at 50mg/ml, you have 100mg on you penis, and than use the 30% rule for absorption to get you to 30mg per app (60mg per day) on your penis.

Right?

Or are you going to be applying the 4ad to other spots as well (delts, tris, etc...)? Though then you're just basically running a transdermal ph stack.

For what it's worth...I would use the site specific gel that one of the companies came out with (used to be Avant Labs Gel#3) and some 3alpha or 5aa....

Ya, you would run into problems with the concentration at those doses with just applying to the penis. He was just worried about side effects, so I just wanted to show him it's not really something to worry about even with the assumption of his dose being up to 400mg/day.

I don't know how much to dose the 4AD though, it's never been studied. I would just go with what the guys at Thunders did I guess. They didn't have any problems with it.

The 3-alpha and 5-aa sounds like an awesome idea, but applying the T is as far as I go with Penis Enlargement hehe. At least I have some studies to ease my worries. I'm not saying 4AD is unsafe, I would probably try that if I didn't have T, as their effects and chemical makeup are very similar.

Note: I DONT recommend any of this to anyone! rofl