I was out for a while and forgot when I came back to make good on a promise. I said Bush would win, and many doubted me including Shafty, I was even taking 20$ bets, but I guess the Dems werent as sure as me. So I came back to taunt and laugh in some of the naysayer's faces like I promised a while ago.

To shafty and the rest of you naysayers... nyah nyah!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

:drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:
:bootyshak:bootyshak

:wave:

:bouncings
 
With those new Electronic voting machines you can swing any election you want. I think only 35% of the voting types are the EVM's but that is still enough to swing whatever you want.

That's why they can get so arrogant with anything. I figured Arnold would be president in 2008 and now even Bush Sr is saying he will be and not to bet against it.
 
bush won but i just have to say that i am completely dissappointed in the nation as a whole. he fucked up the economy and foreign affairs so beyond compare that it just makes my brain hurt. the man is a goddamned chimp and i did my part by voting against him. kerry wasn't the greatest choice on our end either, dude looked like a horse and didn't find anything better to say than "i'm not bush". which only runs so far. but shit that won my vote. the nation got what the nation voted for, and now we're in for a long haul with the war where we shouldn't be right now (or even in the first place). the next president is going to have to work his ass off to get this nation to recover from the trillions of dollars of debt that our nation is in. either way with the election we would have had a shakey president,buti think kerry was the lesser of two evils.
 
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I don't know if it is really so much as the nation got what it voted for.

More than 80% of American's voted against the National ID card and Patriot Act 2 yet they passed the first stage of it on Dec.7. American's voted agains the New Freedom act and Victory act, you guys are getting those too.

You know your government is corrupt when they wont let the senate vote on an act that is 1300+ pages long until half an hour before votes are to be taken up.

Not to mention the group that gets involved actively to make sure all elections run smooth. They claimed to have found the voting records in the garbage hours after Kerry conceded.
 
kausion_420 said:
Huh?

You want that guy to be president?

Hey, The President is nothing but a face for the cameras....

I personally, would rather look at The Governator, than bush, And least Arnie can pull off a one-liner or two when he is at the podium....

Arnie: ---"Stop Being such economical Girly-Men".....

That shit was fucking Classic, I dont give a damn

:praise: Arnold For 2008!!!

:blasting:
 
With those new Electronic voting machines you can swing any election you want. I think only 35% of the voting types are the EVM's but that is still enough to swing whatever you want.

That's why they can get so arrogant with anything. I figured Arnold would be president in 2008 and now even Bush Sr is saying he will be and not to bet against it.
Wont quote your other comments, I am just going to say "silly conspiracy theorist"... it doesnt matter cuz its all ran by Rockafeller anyhow right?...

Lol, dems trying to hold on, drag out and put our system in the mud. Pathetic, just like Bushes first victory.

Actually you cant look at current presidents for the fault of the economy. That is fucking ridiculous and shows a complete lack of knowlegde on economy.

The economy is largely influenced by things not even related to the president or his decisions, aka the fed, board of governors, etc... The economical policies he can put in and affect do not take full effect on the economy for some time.

Fact is... the economy we are dealing with today is the overspending catching up to us from Bill Clinton and the widely popularized and PROPAGATED 'clinton economy' was Reagan Economics spilling over and finally taking effect

It is downright stupid to blame the economy on Bush.
 
the economy was doin just fine, we actually had a billions if not trillions of dollars in surplus. then just after 4 years with bush we are trillions in debt. which you gotta wonder where all the money goes since he should be getting more back from all the lay offs and pay cuts that he is imposing upon our soldiers and fellow working class. and i hate it when people say that it's "home land security" WHERE THE FUCK IS IT?? if the patriot act is a part of homeland security,then it's nothin more than the government keeping tabs on all of us. we're not secure at all from anything, we're too consumed with the war in iraq that we're just exposed on our own homeland. and with all the threats and alerts and shit ...going from red to orange and back and forth..where the fuck is the attacks they keep promising us? it's not happening, because there is no threat. to me it seems like the government is doin this just so we can all rely on bush to help save us and to trust in the government. but if you ask me and if you look at it yourself.....if anyone here read the book "1984"...then you will see that what happened was just like what happened in the book. first it was all about osama...osama osama osama...then OVER NIGHT it became alllllll about sadam. they said he had no threats over there in iraq...I REMEMBER THIS...and then all of a sudden he's the most threatenin man on the planet? true he's dangerous however he wasn't building any forms of reinforcements or gathering an army. he WANTS us to hate sadam and forget alllll about the man behind sept.11 OSAMA! not sadam. true sadam is fucked but he didn't supply anything over to osama. and on top of that. the government...through bushes mouth...told us the american people that weopens of mass destruction was being produced in africa. AFRICA!! for god sakes Africa had nothing to do with it! we fucked some villages up over there and shit then we're like "oh shit sorry our bad". if you ask me that's worse than clintin gettin blown by that fat ass monica. bush is full of bullshit. he fucked us both at home and abroad. those states that voted for bush were on the bible belt, where all they thought about was the abortion issues and gay marriage and shit like that. it's like everyone forgot about how we're NOT supposed to be over in iraq and we were focused instead on if john and joe could get married or not. it's a bunch of crap. bush's campaign people were very smart to focus on those issues not on the ones that really counted, becaues if iraq and the patriot act and other issues like that were brought into light..the election might have ended differently.

me personally, i'm ashamed to be an american.
 
where all the money goes since he should be getting more back from all the lay offs and pay cuts that he is imposing upon our soldiers and fellow working class.
Lol well since neither lay off or paycuts are happening to soldiers you really should stop being so loudmouthed AND ignorant about it. You can be one or the other and fine by my standards, but both?

He actually increased the soldier salary by a few thousand. And it isnt Bush that is laying people off, it is companies that cant get taxcuts therefor have to layoff workers.

Of course coporate income tax isnt cut because coporations are "the rich", and oh no the rich has money and the poor people dont, lets go be robin hood, give freebies to the workers, force corporations to pay it, thereby forcing them to layoff, keeping the poor in a perpetual state of need, always voting for whoever will give them freebies (democrats).

Kadafi. He laid down his weapons when Saddam went down. Another positive thing. Also Saddam has terrorists camps and killed 1000 times over and over more people than Osama has, why not take out another punk while in the area who is supporting terrorism, who has killed 1000 times over more people?

Quite frankly, I am done here, argued this a billion times. The oil argument is moot, weapons of mass destruction argument is moot, pretty much every argument, and if you people havent heard the counter-arguments to the silly dem propaganda you are either too ignorant and stubborn to accept them, havent heard them spoken with all the facts, or just havent heard them at all and should seek some of those sources ASAP.

I just came here to make good on a promise and I did. *salutes the flag* Viva Bush!
 
guys, i think sephin is just too far gone to ever come around to the truth. some people are just lost causes.


and on another note arnold can never be president because he wasn't born in america.
 
Shithead said:
and on another note arnold can never be president because he wasn't born in america.

They are working very hard to get that changed. I hope all in all they won't be able to pass it either, but the amount of stuff that has been passed in the last little bit it doesn't seem like a far stretch.
 
samzman said:
the economy was doin just fine, we actually had a billions if not trillions of dollars in surplus... those states that voted for bush were on the bible belt, where all they thought about was the abortion issues and gay marriage and shit like that. it's like everyone forgot about how we're NOT supposed to be over in iraq and we were focused instead on if john and joe could get married or not. it's a bunch of crap. bush's campaign people were very smart to focus on those issues not on the ones that really counted, becaues if iraq and the patriot act and other issues like that were brought into light..the election might have ended differently.
me personally, i'm ashamed to be an american.
Just to set the record straight on the surpuls thing, that was totally illusory because the numbers quoted to show a surplus included the Social Security fund. That's like me saying I have a $650 surplus every month because I haven't yet deducted my house payment. Secondly, deficit spending is one of the best ways to boost an economy or pull out of a recession. Why? Because the government is pumping money into the economy... but that money is NOT being pulled from consumers' pockets to do so. There are two real sources of income for the Fed Gov- Taxes and bonds (i.e. government borrowing money). Economists have known this for years (and so have the Dems... FDR was the king of it all).

As for saying the election was focused on social issues instead of the things that really matter, well, social issues are what really matter to a lot of people. That doesn't mean they are wrong. Different peole have different key issues which guide their vote. Are the people who voted for Kerry for environmental reasons misguided as well since they didn't base their vote on the war?
 
sephin said:
Lol well since neither lay off or paycuts are happening to soldiers you really should stop being so loudmouthed AND ignorant about it.
You can be one or the other and fine by my standards, but both?!

if i'm loud mouthed then you're a mindless drone. and there were actually paycuts on the armor of the soldiers and their supplies. 38% of all the deaths in iraq could have been prevented if bush put in some more money to buy thicker and better armor. however the soldiers didn't have that.

sephin said:
it is companies that cant get taxcuts!

and who's the one that raised the taxes?

sephin said:
Of course coporate income tax isnt cut because coporations are "the rich", and oh no the rich has money and the poor people dont, lets go be robin hood, give freebies to the workers, force corporations to pay it, thereby forcing them to layoff, keeping the poor in a perpetual state of need, always voting for whoever will give them freebies (democrats).!

no one is looking for freebies. i'm not the poorest of people and neither is my family. we're really well to do and we're far FAR from rebulicans. the reason why MOST democrats are in a state of need is because most of the democrates are MINORITIES. and affirmative action is very much needed because racial profiling and descrimination is VERY real in todays world. i'll give you an example. i'm half cape verdean. i told a girl at my work what i was and we got into an argument for 3 DAYS about how i'm "not really" cape verdean. so on the 3rd day i told her to fuck off. she got "uncomfortable" in her work place and went to our boss saying "zack told me to fuck off now i'm uncomfortable" so now guess who doesn't have a job. ME. this girl insulted my intelligence and my race and swore at me up and down callin me stupid and ignorant and I'M the one that is out of the job. and the whole thing started because she said i wasn't what i was. now i'mnot looking for a "hand out" i'm looking for some fuckin justice. i didn't go up to her and be like "you're not white because blah blah blah...." SHE was the one that did it. and my case isn't the worse case, my father went through much worse he's 100% cape verdean. i heard some sad stories and my father is a very educated man. so don't say that my father and i are looking for hand outs.


sephin said:
Kadafi. He laid down his weapons when Saddam went down. Another positive thing. Also Saddam has terrorists camps and killed 1000 times over and over more people than Osama has, why not take out another punk while in the area who is supporting terrorism, who has killed 1000 times over more people?!


the only reason why sadam killed more people was because he had an early start. like if some kid punched me in the face and i went after him saying "you son of a bitch i'm gonna fuckin kill you!" then saying, "wait that mother fucker over there hit not only me but 3 other people 10 years ago"....which one would i go after just being hit? which would anyone go after?? the dude that just hit you. osama hit us hard and worse than any attack that was placed within our nation. sadam could have waited. he wasn't the imediate threat

i
sephin said:
f you people havent heard the counter-arguments to the silly dem propaganda you are either too ignorant and stubborn to accept them, havent heard them spoken with all the facts, or just havent heard them at all and should seek some of those sources ASAP.

i heard the counter-arguments and i'm sticking by my guns just like you are yours. just don't make this shit personal

sephin said:
*salutes the flag* Viva Bush!


give me a break :D
 
Texan said:
As for saying the election was focused on social issues instead of the things that really matter, well, social issues are what really matter to a lot of people. That doesn't mean they are wrong. Different peole have different key issues which guide their vote. Are the people who voted for Kerry for environmental reasons misguided as well since they didn't base their vote on the war?

it is very true that there are different key issues, however this election wasn't like the last one where the only injustice was that we had to recount til the cows came home. we're at war and the soldiers don'tlike being overthere, yet i don't see our president doing anything to help bring them back. we shouldn't even be over there.....but i don't wanna get on a rant about that. well the basis thing is that many other issues should have been brought to light but weren't that's all i'm sayin. for me i'm personally for gay marriage, however i don't find that such a huge deal. stem cell...i don't think that should be a debate at all but i can see how it can be....well....yeah i had a point lol.......umm.....oh yeah that's it...other topics could have been brought to light that's basically it. kerry faultered and fucked up, bush is just a better salesman
 
if i'm loud mouthed then you're a mindless drone. and there were actually paycuts on the armor of the soldiers and their supplies. 38% of all the deaths in iraq could have been prevented if bush put in some more money to buy thicker and better armor. however the soldiers didn't have that.
That was LONG ago, that was post-coldwar cuts friend, your facts obviously not in perspective. Democrats are always the ones cutting military anyhow.

BTW the SALARY of soldiers increased, is what I was saying.

Bad bad analogies. There is a different between someone punching you in the face recently and someone killing 20 people over the course of 10 years. Id say thats a better analogy. If you are the only world power that is willing to get off your thumbs and do something (besides Britain and the other 20-30+ countries that are non 'super powers'), you should. Its justice.

Democrats are hilarious. Clinton bombs an aspirin factory with 0 casualities and he is praised for his 'war tactics'. Suddenly people start dying because it is a real war, with real threats, with real repercussions and they start freaking out. I dont see democrats so fervent about DUI penalties, or other such crimes, that cause at least 10 times more deaths a year than all our casualties in the war thus far. In our own country too.

Its a card. A big one. Bigger than the pathetic and overplayed race card. What have the democrats ever done for minorities? What actual role of power has a minority held in a democrat presidency? (Lets exclude colin powell, he has been in EVERY presidency) I believe there was one prominent minority in Billy's presidency, office of interior design, or something similarly named.

In the past 50 years democrats have only handed out freebies to the poor, which predominantly affected minorities, and are not longterm effective for income. Thus, it keeps the poor/minorities in a perpetual need for democrats to keep handing them freebies.

The reason we have such a high debt are democrats who dont want to lose constituents by raising taxes or cutting government spending, thus both increase and debt grows. At least republicans have a basic plan to cut debt, by cutting out wasteful programs. I am just hopping from topic to topic now so I will stop. For a more coherent and informed, also debate ending reply, talk to Bib ;)
 
On Military Spending:

1. 'Democrats undermine the military' - Not true. The defense budget in 1986 (note the cold war was still in effect) was $273 billion. Clinton's budget in 1996? $266 billion. A whopping 2% percent less. It was however, larger than outgoing Bush Sr.'s budget, which was masterminded by then Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney. Go ahead, look it up.

That being said, who do you think developed the super-advanced military that we qued and up and rolled through Afghanistan and Iraq with? We headed into Afghanistan about a year into Bush's first term with the most advanced and powerful military in the world, an army far more sophisticated and equipped than the one we used in the first Iraq war (10% of our bombs dropped in Iraq #1 were smart bombs, some 70% this time around). Was this enough time for the triumphant patriotic republican to overhaul a weak democratic military and create the rock solid hi-tech fighting force currently serving us? Short answer: No. This is Cinton's military.

Director of national security studies at the Council of Foreign Relations Lawrence J. Korb on the the success of the Iraq war: "The military forces that executed the plan so boldy and bravely were for the most part recruited, trained, and equipped by the Clinton administration." He goes on to say, regarding our swift victory in Iraq, "The fact of the matter is, most of the credit for the successful military operation should go to the Clinton administration."

But if Mr. Korb doesn't convince you, here's a quote from Dick Cheney: "A commander in chief leads a military built by those who came before him. There is little that he or his defense secretary can do to improve the force they have to deploy." Eight years of Clinton created a strong, battle ready military, despite Bush's very interesting post 9/11 claim that our military was "hollowed out." It was, in fact, quite strong, but has since been undercut by poor funding from Bush.

For instance, many might find it interesting that wounded soldiers are made to pay for their meals in Iraq while in recovery. Many soldiers are unfortunately spending their own money in order to fully equip themselves for conflict (entry level enlisted pay is a whopping $16,000 a year by the way, including their signing bonus) and a good deal of this talk about Bush's 'pay raises for the troops' is actually a decree saying that a $150 dollar a month pay raise will no longer count against food stamp benefits for soldier's families (there are about 25,000 enlisted men whose families currently collect food stamps). Also, the re-sign bonus for another tour of duty has been amped up considerably, for obvious reasons. Never mind that Bush introduced an effort to cut military pay in 2003, but I believe somebody snapped awake and remembered an election was on the horizon, and the measure was quickly retracted (amidst a rising flurry of bad press).

But that's beside the point; soldiers haven't had comprable pay to the private sector since the early 80s. The important thing here is that Bush, the great supporter of our military and troops, isn't doing enough to fund them in a time of war (which has some even more serious implications when you consider that this isn't a defensive war or a war in response to aggression - it is a voluntary operation that is placing our military people in harm's way). Food for thought.

On race and the political parties:

Sephin, you're badly misinformed here, which makes me question why or how you hold an opinion on the issue. And just to begin, if you don't believe in the race card, what's the use of criticizing democratic adminstrations for not having prominent black figures? Should race matter? Should it be necessary to have different ethnicities mixed in? Should it not just be the best people for the job (I doubt you're an affirmative action supporter). Well that's buying into the race card argument if you want to take a pot shot at Clinton for not having as many minorities in his cabinet. Didn't know you were a closet liberl, but moving on . . .

Here's a famous old happening: When LBJ (democrat, just to be clear) signed the civil rights act he turned to an aide and said "We've just lost the South for a generation." And indeed, the once solidly democratic South turned solidly republican just like that, in response to legislation at long last enshrining the belief that we are all equal under the law. Unfortunately it has lasted more than a generation, but I'd say that has more to do with people not liking change rather than overt racism, as was the case back then.

So there's one thing a democrat did for minorities. I guess it's not a coincidence that the NAACP and the Urban League are vocal supporters of the democratic party. Or here's something interesting - During the Trent Lott scandal a while back a reporter from the Washington Post named Gene Weingarten attempted to contact the African American Republican Leadership Council for comment. Upon investigation of the council's leadership, he found that 14 of the 15 members where white, the 15th being an actual black man, Edward W. Brooke III. Weingarten called the man to enquire about the lack of actual African Americans on the board, and discovered the man was unaware that he was even on the board or that it existed. A spokesman for the board, Kevin L. Martin, when asked about the lack of actual black people reprsented on the board said "I'd like there to be more, but let's be honest, right now the Republican Party and African Americans have a large rift." I just find this rather funny. This ought to be available online if anybody is would like to check it out. Point: The Repblican's are depserate to appear as if they have black support - but they don't.

Bush has Condi Rice in there? So what? African Americans across the nation believe that democrats better support their interests and goals, and there and have been exponentially more black democrats in party and elected positions. Clinton didn't need a black female security adviser (now Sec. of State) because he didn't need to prove to anybody he didn't belong to a party that largely stands against the interests of minorities.

The stuff about the economy, well, I don't even have the time or desire to pull that apart. But it is the most facile, rehashed, skin-deep reasoned explanation I've already heard a million times, fromthe same people that have never really done any serious investigation of study of the matter. That's damn close to conservativefolk tradition at this point, and even the most conservative economic scholar (see Milton Friedman) would brush it off as crass. Democrats give handouts, this makes poor people need more handouts and bankrupts the country . . . well yes sir, you've really got the inside track on social policy and national economics. How did you come by such a monumentally sophisticated and irrefutable opinion? Well that's a bit mean spirited, but when I see such trite statements the hackles go up . . . Honestly that sort of tit-for-tat type response with the attitude of "you're foolish, ha-ha" attached, when you have little or no depth to your comments, well, it's just not cool I suppose.
 
sephin said:
If you are the only world power that is willing to get off your thumbs and do something (besides Britain and the other 20-30+ countries that are non 'super powers'), you should. Its justice.

Your Alright Sephin, but im glad Im not around when you and the fam talk politics :D...I dont claim to know 1% of what there is to know.....But when I see a quote like that, damn, there is some serious brainwashing takin place...

AMERICA IS NOT TRYING TO HELP THE POOR Penis EnlargementOPLE IN NEED :D :D :D

I mean, I thought we were past this :s

sephin said:
I just came here to make good on a promise and I did. *salutes the flag* Viva Bush

Man, I think you have to start rooting for a sports team or something, cuz when I read that, It sounded like Goerge Bush was Football Team, And He just won the Superbowl!!!!
 
I have been browsing through the newswires on MSNBC and BBC the stuff that never makes it to your TV as well as listening to some talk radio and other sources. All of it is pushing the same propaganda.

You have liberals saying torturing people is good, and its how you have to deal with people. Army reports on MSNBC stating when they stop vehicles and the civilians do not have their papers in order they are taken away and tortured. TV shows now have episodes where the good guy must torture the bad guys children in order to make him talk. Does anyone see this or just take things for how they are and nothing more?

I also read new plans for the "Terrorist Fighters" to know go into Iran and Syria.

Other mainstream sources basically say the Iraqi people are all sub-human all animals kill them. An obviously it is accepted because its becoming more open. Im not an American so maybe I do not see it from the proper perspective. Do you believe these so called "Terrorists" are sub-human?

Do you understand this is the same type of brainwash Hitler used to have Germans believe Jews were sub-human?

Do you know what tactics were used in order for Hitler to assume total control and bring Germany into a dictatorship? If you do know, do you not see these same things repeating themselves?

I guess my final question is Do you even care? Or only if it effects you directly...
 
kausion_420 said:
Do you understand this is the same type of brainwash Hitler used to have Germans believe Jews were sub-human?

Do you know what tactics were used in order for Hitler to assume total control and bring Germany into a dictatorship? If you do know, do you not see these same things repeating themselves?

I guess my final question is Do you even care? Or only if it effects you directly...

Yeah, thats what its all about man, I was thinking about this exactly as I was reading the first of your post, and that last point is very true for most because I remember a conversation and the ending point from someone was:

"I dont really give a fuck what Bush does in Iraq", pretty scary view, although it didnt come from an American, i bet thats mostly their views too....

But whenever shit gets hairy, Im just gonna move up north and buy a brand new 2012 sKidoo and go nuts :D
Me and the indians will have nothing to worry about.... :s
 
kausion_420 said:
I have been browsing through the newswires on MSNBC and BBC the stuff that never makes it to your TV as well as listening to some talk radio and other sources. All of it is pushing the same propaganda.

You have liberals saying torturing people is good, and its how you have to deal with people. Army reports on MSNBC stating when they stop vehicles and the civilians do not have their papers in order they are taken away and tortured. TV shows now have episodes where the good guy must torture the bad guys children in order to make him talk. Does anyone see this or just take things for how they are and nothing more?

I also read new plans for the "Terrorist Fighters" to know go into Iran and Syria.

Other mainstream sources basically say the Iraqi people are all sub-human all animals kill them. An obviously it is accepted because its becoming more open. Im not an American so maybe I do not see it from the proper perspective. Do you believe these so called "Terrorists" are sub-human?

Do you understand this is the same type of brainwash Hitler used to have Germans believe Jews were sub-human?

Do you know what tactics were used in order for Hitler to assume total control and bring Germany into a dictatorship? If you do know, do you not see these same things repeating themselves?

I guess my final question is Do you even care? Or only if it effects you directly...


If you get a chance, please link the articles proclaiming the terrorists/Iraqi's as subhuman and justifying torture as a means for extracting information. There are all kinds of articles proclaiming all kinds of things and many of them are absolutely false. As a general rule, most unfortunate for Michael Moore, propaganda is not news.

Of course there are legitimate tactics for extracting information that are not exactly comfortable, but they are far from what is considered torture. Under the arm of the left winged, keeping a prisoner confined to a cell is 'torture by confinement'. Marshal law has been declared in Iraq, so if you do not have your papers there is a greater chance that you will be carrying a bomb. There are well defnied lines that must not be crossed to insure the protection of the soldiers and Iraqi civillians.

The only differnce between postwar Iraq and postwar [fill in the blank with any war prior to 1990] is the scale of media coverage. What occured in postWWII Germany is identical to what is happening in Iraq. It takes time and work to rebuild a traumatized country. War has always been war, the majority of the public has just never had to deal with it.
 
sephin said:
That was LONG ago, that was post-coldwar cuts friend, your facts obviously not in perspective. Democrats are always the ones cutting military anyhow.

BTW the SALARY of soldiers increased, is what I was saying.

Bad bad analogies. There is a different between someone punching you in the face recently and someone killing 20 people over the course of 10 years. Id say thats a better analogy. If you are the only world power that is willing to get off your thumbs and do something (besides Britain and the other 20-30+ countries that are non 'super powers'), you should. Its justice.

Democrats are hilarious. Clinton bombs an aspirin factory with 0 casualities and he is praised for his 'war tactics'. Suddenly people start dying because it is a real war, with real threats, with real repercussions and they start freaking out. I dont see democrats so fervent about DUI penalties, or other such crimes, that cause at least 10 times more deaths a year than all our casualties in the war thus far. In our own country too.

Its a card. A big one. Bigger than the pathetic and overplayed race card. What have the democrats ever done for minorities? What actual role of power has a minority held in a democrat presidency? (Lets exclude colin powell, he has been in EVERY presidency) I believe there was one prominent minority in Billy's presidency, office of interior design, or something similarly named.

In the past 50 years democrats have only handed out freebies to the poor, which predominantly affected minorities, and are not longterm effective for income. Thus, it keeps the poor/minorities in a perpetual need for democrats to keep handing them freebies.


minorities ARE the main people in the democratic party. if anyone remembers the rebuplican national convention, try to recall how many black faces were in there. bet not many. then look at the democrat nation convention, it's like a fuckin mix of salt and pepper in there! there are very few black people in politics because it is mainly a white position. and we will almost NEVER see a black president in office. it's just the main facts. it's a basic fact that the people would rather see a rich white southerner be our president (in this case a hick from texas),than a well educated black man or god forbid....WOMAN....or black woman to really mix it up a bit. democratic voters however are mainly minorities due to their financial situations and every other aspect to why we need affirmative action. and the reason why we keep on handing "freebies" is because the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. that's how it's always going to be. i'm not saying that we go communist, but i'm saying give more money or opportunities so they can get out of the rut they are in and start being a major contributer to the country. but i don't see republicans helpin out with that, they wanna keep the money to themselves
 
samzman said:
and the reason why we keep on handing "freebies" is because the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. that's how it's always going to be. i'm not saying that we go communist, but i'm saying give more money or opportunities so they can get out of the rut they are in and start being a major contributer to the country. but i don't see republicans helpin out with that, they wanna keep the money to themselves
I totally understand where you are coming from, but, man, with all due respect, I disagree. That philosophy doesn't work. We've been giving out free cash since LBJ (a Democrat) said, 'fuck the boys in Vietnam, I'm not pulling them out of there and going down in history as the only President to lose a war,' and started his "War on Poverty." We've been warring on poverty for nearly 40 years now, and whew-wee, it's worked like a charm ain't it? Just like communism worked for the USSR. You're saying give them more money. Well, if you're giving them more money, what's the motivation to go to work? Take for example...ME. My first year of college I got Pell grants because I lived with my dad and we were VERY low income. Next year I get some little piss ant job at the grocery store to help make ends meet and- BOOM!- family fucked, because we make too much money. So after taxes and tuition my $5000/year job netted me about $1000 or $20 bucks a week or $1 an hour. So if you up the freebie money, it isn't worth getting a job. No, Republicans don't want to give out free money... especially when we're the one's footing the bill with the money that we had to work for. If we can work for it, so can anyone else. That may sound harsh, but I've busted my ass, and my wife and son have done without things, to pay my own way through college and now law school, and I'll be damned if I want to give up the money I earn to people who would rather live off the government tit than get a job. If you want to give them something for free, make higher education publicly funded like grade school, and let people get an education, but just don't give them a fucking free check every month. I've worked my way out of poverty, literally, and I have no desire to give my earnings away to people who are capable, but too lazy, to do the same. Sorry, Zach, that's just my greedy Republican philosophy :)
 
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Texan said:
I totally understand where you are coming from, but, man, with all due respect, I disagree.


just because you said it like that.......made what you said a lot easier to hear. i respect the fact that you worked your way out of poverty, and i could understand how you wouldn't wanna give what you have earned. i guess it's all a matter of personal experience and perspective and all that. i never had to face that my family has land that's 12 generations old by the water front on cape cod, so i never had to work my way out of it. however my parents taught me that if you have somethin and someone doesn't, then give em some type of boost. because if we lost all that we have we would want some help too or some give so we can get back on our feet. i don't know maybe i'm just a softie :D

any how thanks for not making it personal by saying i'm "ignorant" as some people would say ;)
 
You can go to the newswire websites and do searches and you will find things I am talking about (MSNBC is where I found most). I like when people search for it the same way I do that way if they are truly interested they will take the time and enlighten themselves in the process.

As far as propaganda not being news depends on how you view it. If you take the truth, and a little lie with a little more misrepresentation and top it off with some healthy spin... you get the mainstream news. The reason they add the spin is so that a horrible thing will seem good as the news anchor spews it out. That in my opinion in propaganda which is news.
 
Mainstream news in the states focuses on the negative aspects of the Bush administration and leaves no question as to whether or not the news is biased towards the left. It is interesting that you said you have to look for news portraying the positive aspects of the war.

Texan, what you have to realize is that you have the skill to pull yourself up and others do not. Therefore it is your role to pick up the slack for the people that would rather not go to work, because working is hard for some people and they need your hard earned money to take care of kid number 17. You should be thankful for the skills you have and I hope you can tell I'm being sarcastic.

Americans do not have a problem with helping others that want to help themselves. We do have a problem with giving people free rides. Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day, teach that man to fish and you will feed him for a lifetime. Tell them about the Democrats and you will teach them to whine.
 
I guess we all have our views.

You may believe as an Ameircan it is your duty to go to Iraq and save them from a terrible dictator that was funded and put into power in 1979 or there abouts by your country. Im still not too sure what good that does trying to "save" these people and give them democracy. Like I said earlier with the Spin that I mean. They won't just openly tell you that they already have the candidate chosen and there will be no voting. They tell you that they are not allowed to tell you who is even running or where the locations of the voting booths will be until after the election because there might be a "Terrorist Attack".

Also in the Jordan Times newswire from yesterday it claims the new police of Iraq's Democracy will be hiring another 100,000 soldiers from Saddam's former army. That will add to the other 50,000 of his former soldiers who are already on the force.

The average American attitude is that they are the country that helps everybody else and for that they are attacked. I'm wondering why the government doesn't help its own people before going into other countries and "helping" them. Why are so many jobs recently being outsourced leaving many jobless. You can tell someone to get a job you lazy bum but how does that guy compete with $0.17 an hour.

Why is there more drugs coming in now than there was before the top percent were given a large sum of money to have a war on drugs. Why is Opium production in Afganistan skyrocketing. Maybe they are making poppy seed muffins for the more feeble countries like the one I'm in.

The best way to truly help someone else is to help yourself first. If you are not at 100% then neither is your help. Unless of course you aren't really helping, but expanding and taking.
 
samzman said:
just because you said it like that.......made what you said a lot easier to hear. i respect the fact that you worked your way out of poverty, and i could understand how you wouldn't wanna give what you have earned. i guess it's all a matter of personal experience and perspective and all that. i never had to face that my family has land that's 12 generations old by the water front on cape cod, so i never had to work my way out of it. however my parents taught me that if you have somethin and someone doesn't, then give em some type of boost. because if we lost all that we have we would want some help too or some give so we can get back on our feet. i don't know maybe i'm just a softie :D

any how thanks for not making it personal by saying i'm "ignorant" as some people would say ;)
Naw, it's all cool... dif'rent storkes for dif'rent folks. I don't think people are ignorant for having different political views, and I truly hope it didn't come across that way. I respect everyone's opinion on this because I really can see the other side and understand the thought behind it, I just can't personally buy into it. Yeah, it probably has to do with how I grew up...
 
Shit I was hoping this thread would turn into another awsome politics throw-down.

Texan, I don't think we agree on a lot of things but you've got my upmost respect. I see some good in social welfare, but I see a lot more in people like yourself.
 
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