Another Religion Thread- The Crucifixian

[Kal-el]

I know, I know, not another damn religion thread. But I really get into talking about religion- especially Christianity. So, let's talk about Jesus' crucifixian. If Jesus was indeed a brilliant and crafty a man as Christians say, or God in human form, he was well aware of what happenings his ministry would set in motion. So, why was it necessary to continue along this path? Why do you think he found it necessary to push his enemies to the threshold of killing him? As God he could have easily avoided committing suicide by this rather oblique route, and continued preaching, yet that's what he did.

Is there some reason Jesus could not have lived to a ripe old age? Would it not have still brought salvation to those who believe in him? Or was his crucifixion etc. just a publicity stunt, pulled off to make his story a better sell? if God was indeed in the ground for 3 days, who was in charge of heaven, was it this guy?

 

[SwedishChef]

It wouldn't have been as dramatic? Which do you think sounds more like an epic legend:

"He hung on the heavy wooden cross with whip wounds all over is battered body, and after a Roman solider stabbed him in his chest with his lance, the son of god died."

or

"He lived to be a ripe old Jewish man, going down to the market every Tuesday to preach, barter for fake beards and buy a nice apple crisp to enjoy at home with a school of nice Vanilla ice cream and some Miracle Whip."

 

[Kal-el]

It wouldn't have been as dramatic? Which do you think sounds more like an epic legend:

"He hung on the heavy wooden cross with whip wounds all over is battered body, and after a Roman solider stabbed him in his chest with his lance, the son of god died."

or

"He lived to be a ripe old Jewish man, going down to the market every Tuesday to preach, barter for fake beards and buy a nice apple crisp to enjoy at home with a school of nice Vanilla ice cream and some Miracle Whip."

Of course the former is more picturesque and/or dramatic. But this is my whole point. If Jesus was God in the flesh, then he is omniscient correct? If that's true, he committed suicide by letting himself get killed knowingly. As suicide is defined as "The act or an instance of intentionally killing oneself. " ref. But the idea of anything, much less the crucifixion, is all faith. I'd say the story of getting yourself double-crossed, wisked away for judgement, found guilty, and then enduring a very picturesque death, Plus dissapearing from your grave is definetly a much better story than holding a few sermons to preach a message, then simply relinquishing life and that's all.

 

[SwedishChef]

....What exactly are we arguing/discussing again?

if God was indeed in the ground for 3 days, who was in charge of heaven, was it this guy?

God is also described at omnipotent, so he wouldn't have to get Mr Hoff to manage Heaven. He could be on Earth, watch the Godfather 5 times and do the taxes at the same time.

 

[Juggers]

Jesus lived to fulfill the prophecies of the old testament. Your taking what the bible states out of cont-ex and putting it rather bluntly...God cannot die, he is spirit. However, God can send himself down to earth as a Son and die as a human...think about it, he is God. The fact is, Jesus' death on the cross, however unnecessary it may seem to you is the only thing that pleases God enough to have mercy on you. Furthermore, the crucifixion was the worst punisHydromaxent he could have gotten from the people at that time...symbolically, our sins were crucified on the cross with him so that we would be without sin if we believed in him. Its all really in the bible...why he died, why God sent him. I dont know if that helped you at all but this topic is really hard to discuss.

 

[The BTC Killer]

It is written that Jesus new of his fate and that was his destiny. Without the sacrifice, Christianity just wouldn't be the same. My wife said, "I will leave you, if I don't go to church with me." I was like, "what would Jesus say?" That's not the proper attitude of a Christian!
In conclusion...
<center>
"

I have to go to church"</center>

 

[Kal-el]

Jesus lived to fulfill the prophecies of the old testament.

Yes, and uphold all of the OT cruelties (stoning disobedient children, beating slaves, etc, etc, etc) as well. I'm sure you wouldn't want to argue this, as you wouldn't want to disagree with the carpenter, would you?

Your taking what the bible states out of cont-ex and putting it rather bluntly...God cannot die, he is spirit.

Out of context? In all my experience, that seems to be the consensus from Christians when their Holy Book is shown to have errors in it. If you say I'm taking a verse out of context, you're practically admitting it's fallibe and open to interpretation. If it's infallible, it's impossible for fallible humans to take something perfect out of context.

However, God can send himself down to earth as a Son and die as a human...think about it, he is God.

You're correct, sure he can, but that would mean he desires blood sacrifices then. Because if that's the case, sometime he decided to commit cannibalism on himself. Certain sects of Christianity cannot even come to agreement about whether Jesus was God or if he was the son, Jesus even seems confused.

The fact is, Jesus' death on the cross, however unnecessary it may seem to you is the only thing that pleases God enough to have mercy on you.

Just a little tip here- You should probably stop talking for your God. If I adulated him, I sure as hell wouldn't want to tick him off, he's one mean S.O.B. Let me ask you something Juggers, seriously, do you believe in Santa, the Easter bunny, Allah?

Furthermore, the crucifixion was the worst punisHydromaxent he could have gotten from the people at that time...

Agreed. But there's no proof of a crucifixian. Throughout all of the Roman records, there's no proof, hell there's not even proof of a Jesus. If one cannot prove it, you shouldn't base an entire religion off of baseless dogma.

symbolically, our sins were crucified on the cross with him so that we would be without sin if we believed in him.

Wow, what a waste of time this little stunt was, sin is still plentiful in the world. This "God" fellow is a real screwup, as he must of fell asleep considering the sin issue, as he could have made us perfect from the start, then he wouldn't have to kill all of humanity except 9 people in the biggest wholesale genocide ever in the flood.

Its all really in the bible...

See, there's my problem. Don't get me wrong, the bible is quite a page turner. I have read it in it's entirety. But the bible simply defies all common sense and reason, it's just an article of faith. It has nothing to do with rationality. I would think you need faith in order to buy into an incoherent, contradictory collection of books. I take the bible about as seriously as a tabloid.

why he died, why God sent him. I dont know if that helped you at all but this topic is really hard to discuss.

Yea, yea, I apologize if I come off kinda rude, but I just get on edge when people spew all this stuff and all they have to offer is a book full of contradictions. In ending my part, I used to be a Christian, reading the bible turned me into an athiest. I refuse to follow the rest of the herd and believe in something which I know is in question, it's being dishonest with yourself. I refuse to suBathmateit to the Christian superstition, as it seems all who do not believe will be tortured and killed.

 

[Juggers]

All of your opinions are as valid as mine Kal-el. It is a book of exactly that, faith, and a person either WANTS to beleive willingly, even though he or she isn't exactly sure what is going on. Call it blind faith, but thats life. This is the beauty of it all, you said you were a Christain at one point and used to read the bible, but that in turn, transformed you into an athiest. It would appear to me that you have little faith, and are living on reason alone. But then again I don't know you at all so I am probably wrong. Anyone can argue about the bible being a lie and God not existing, but it takes curage and a sense of purpose to actually live in the faith you proclaim.

 

[Kal-el]

All of your opinions are as valid as mine Kal-el. It is a book of exactly that, faith, and a person either WANTS to beleive willingly, even though he or she isn't exactly sure what is going on. Call it blind faith, but thats life. This is the beauty of it all, you said you were a Christain at one point and used to read the bible, but that in turn, transformed you into an athiest. It would appear to me that you have little faith, and are living on reason alone. But then again I don't know you at all so I am probably wrong. Anyone can argue about the bible being a lie and God not existing, but it takes curage and a sense of purpose to actually live in the faith you proclaim.

Great diatribe their Juggers, and I agree with you 100%. I'd say the big thing in my life that got me questioning, was in 2000, when I was hospitalized because of a certain illness I have. I kept asking myself, please God make me better, day after day. And you know what, I did get better, but it was because of the antibiotic I.V.s, and all the medicine I was on, no supernatural sky pixie. I did alot of thinking in the hospital, and I came up with the fact that it's a logically impossibility to be omnibenevolent (perfectly loving, loving all of his children), and omnipotent (all powerful, can solvent anything) at the same time. There's too much evil in this world for a loving, all-powerful skydaddy to exist. Mankind has compounded way too much sufferings for an omnimax mystical, God to exist. A while after my hospital stay, I actually sat down and managed to plow through the Bible, mostly to get some answers, and see what all this God business was about. I got answers alright, but not the ones I was looking for. I think the Bible is the most murderous, gruesome book that man has ever concocted. I don't get why some parents forbid their children to play violent video games, but then hand them Bibles, go figure.

 

[Juggers]

Great diatribe their Juggers, and I agree with you 100%. I'd say the big thing in my life that got me questioning, was in 2000, when I was hospitalized because of a certain illness I have. I kept asking myself, please God make me better, day after day. And you know what, I did get better, but it was because of the antibiotic I.V.s, and all the medicine I was on, no supernatural sky pixie. I did alot of thinking in the hospital, and I came up with the fact that it's a logically impossibility to be omnibenevolent (perfectly loving, loving all of his children), and omnipotent (all powerful, can solvent anything) at the same time. There's too much evil in this world for a loving, all-powerful skydaddy to exist. Mankind has compounded way too much sufferings for an omnimax mystical, God to exist. A while after my hospital stay, I actually sat down and managed to plow through the Bible, mostly to get some answers, and see what all this God business was about. I got answers alright, but not the ones I was looking for. I think the Bible is the most murderous, gruesome book that man has ever concocted. I don't get why some parents forbid their children to play violent video games, but then hand them Bibles, go figure.

So it was cause and effect for you...something happened to you that changed your perspective on life, something that made you question your faith, ultimately changing you for better or worse. Instead of giving God the credit of saving your life or having mercy on you, you lend the hand to technology and science. Again its a decision you choose to believe, was God in your favor, or did you just get lucky? I don't know what to tell you, but I can tell you that I have prayed, and miracles have happened that I can't explain. You expected God to intervene, you wanted to get better and you did.

 

[Juggers]

I just found out what diatribe ment and I didn't mean for it to sound like that, if it did lol.

 

[Kal-el]

So it was cause and effect for you...something happened to you that changed your perspective on life, something that made you question your faith, ultimately changing you for better or worse. Instead of giving God the credit of saving your life or having mercy on you, you lend the hand to technology and science. Again its a decision you choose to believe, was God in your favor, or did you just get lucky? I don't know what to tell you, but I can tell you that I have prayed, and miracles have happened that I can't explain. You expected God to intervene, you wanted to get better and you did.

Juggers, why would I give an invisable man credit for something? To be fair though, if you give him credit for answered prayers (Btw, what is the purpose of prayer, what can we possibly tell an all knowing entity that it doesn't already know?) also credit him for the bad happenings. When something bad happens, I hear Christians blame it on man's free will. Well, that doesn't get this "God" fellow off the hook at all. A loving god would not allow free will if it is the cause of human evil. If he did indeed create everything, he created the conditions necessary for the said event to take place, hence he is either directly or indirectly responsible for everything that goes down.

 

[Kal-el]

It is written that Jesus new of his fate and that was his destiny. Without the sacrifice, Christianity just wouldn't be the same. My wife said, "I will leave you, if I don't go to church with me." I was like, "what would Jesus say?" That's not the proper attitude of a Christian!
In conclusion...
<center>
"

I have to go to church"</center>

Wow, BTC, that's pretty harsh man. So, she's forcing you to share in her delusion? Here's a banner for ya'll:

 

[Juggers]

Juggers, why would I give an invisable man credit for something? To be fair though, if you give him credit for answered prayers (Btw, what is the purpose of prayer, what can we possibly tell an all knowing entity that it doesn't already know?) also credit him for the bad happenings. When something bad happens, I hear Christians blame it on man's free will. Well, that doesn't get this "God" fellow off the hook at all. A loving god would not allow free will if it is the cause of human evil. If he did indeed create everything, he created the conditions necessary for the said event to take place, hence he is either directly or indirectly responsible for everything that goes down.

Well, I don't think the purpose of prayer is to tell God anything exactly as you are implying...but to ask God for things that you need of Him ect....You are saying that God could be directly or indirectly responsible for everything that goes down (including evil things), and that its not mans free will. I remind you that Satan is actually a factor in mankind's lives too, and the forces of evil. Man gives credit to many things he cant understand or see, so giving an invisible being credit for something isn't too far fetched in this day and age.

 

[Kal-el]

Well, I don't think the purpose of prayer is to tell God anything exactly as you are implying...but to ask God for things that you need of Him ect....

If it's to ask him for things, that's kinda implying he's a giant, invisable Santa. If he even answers 1, he's sadistic then. Because millions of people with cancer are praying at this minute for his help, and why would he blow them all off and only answer 1? If he has the power to help 1, help them all. You cannot have it both ways.

You are saying that God could be directly or indirectly responsible for everything that goes down (including evil things), and that its not mans free will. I remind you that Satan is actually a factor in mankind's lives too, and the forces of evil.

Well, my friend, your invisable sky cadet created Satan. And if he's all knowing, he created Satan with the full knowledge that he would turn and reak havoc on his creation. Hardly loving. Ohh, and according to your book, Satan is only responsible for 1 death by dropping a house on Job's kid, whereas God makes Hitler look like Mr. Rodgers.

Man gives credit to many things he cant understand or see, so giving an invisible being credit for something isn't too far fetched in this day and age.

Umm, name 1 thing man gives credit to that he doesn't understand nor see. I am wracking my brain tryin to think of 1 instance, anyway an invisable sky monkey who sprang out of nothingness doesn't fit into the equation.

 

[Pandora]

Umm, name 1 thing man gives credit to that he doesn't understand nor see. I am wracking my brain tryin to think of 1 instance, anyway an invisable sky monkey who sprang out of nothingness doesn't fit into the equation.

Life God gave us Life.

And also Satan is an angel cast out of heaven.

 

[More Meat]

Life God gave us Life.

And also Satan is an angel cast out of heaven.

Life happened naturally my friend, there was no mystical entity that zapped humans down on the planet. There aint no heaven; there aint no hell; their aint no God- deal with it.

Sorry I dont mean to be mean, but this stuff really fires me up- I cant believe that people really still believe in all this mysticism in this day and age. Ive had many an argument with people about religion and have argued the best of them into the ground simply because religion and believing in religion just doesnt make sense. Your believing in something that isnt there- have fun with that.

 

[Pandora]

Life happened naturally my friend, there was no mystical entity that zapped humans down on the planet. There aint no heaven; there aint no hell; their aint no God- deal with it.

Sorry I dont mean to be mean, but this stuff really fires me up- I cant believe that people really still believe in all this mysticism in this day and age. Ive had many an argument with people about religion and have argued the best of them into the ground simply because religion and believing in religion just doesnt make sense. Your believing in something that isnt there- have fun with that.

Haha lol so you say but you dont know this nobody knows this.

thats the whole point nobody knows.

 

[Juggers]

Haha lol so you say but you dont know this nobody knows this.

thats the whole point nobody knows.

Well, we can be sure we die someday, then you will know the truth. Until then faith is the onlything to grasp. As far as I am concerned, I have the right to beleive in what I want, as well as anyone here.

Kal-el, Satans turning against God, even if God did know, has nothing to do with God's love. Free will is free will. God loves people even if they turn against him.

 

[Pandora]

Well, we can be sure we die someday, then you will know the truth. Until then faith is the onlything to grasp. As far as I am concerned, I have the right to beleive in what I want, as well as anyone here.

Kal-el, Satans turning against God, even if God did know, has nothing to do with God's love. Free will is free will. God loves people even if they turn against him.

Does dieing scare you. I think i am afraid to die in case i don't come back or don't end up somewhere.

As the saying goes
You only live once make the most of it.

 

[Girthius]

When will people learn that prayer is not enough!It's like you want god, great spirit, etc., to meet you 90% of the way!It doesnt matter what you believe in, as all paths lead to the same place.......surprise!The key to all this lies within the subconcioius mind!Until people face up to this, and start working with this part of the brain, they will never get their prayers answered,become enlightened,astral travel or many other extraordinary things, that only some people get, through tapping into this part of the brain!!

As for the devil........when the christians gave him this name, they more or less created evils existance!By acknowlegdeing evil you give it power!As a pagan, we don't believe in such things as a "devil", so therefore, we do not feed it energy!

I'm affraid that the world is very evil, but it can be changed if people work on the subconcious!!You don't see 1000's of Taoist monks killing people for no reason............wonder why??

 

[Kal-el]

Well, we can be sure we die someday, then you will know the truth. Until then faith is the onlything to grasp. As far as I am concerned, I have the right to beleive in what I want, as well as anyone here.

Of course you do, just realize that your belief is not grounded in reality at all.

Kal-el, Satans turning against God;
even if God did know, has nothing to do with God's love.

Dude if God is omniscient, that means that at the time when he created Satan, he knew what would come of it. In other words, he knew forehand that Satan would become evil and try to battle for the souls of mankind. So, if this is true, God created evil; he's venomous and sadistic. So, all this trouble sure Satan is directly responsible, but you must ask yourself, who created Satan. I think if Satan would be real, he sounds like he'd be one helluv a guy, not some stiff douchebag with all these emotional insecurities like this "God" fellow.

Free will is free will. God loves people even if they turn against him.

Even though free will is incompatible with the Christian God's omnimax attributes, I'll overlook that for now. But I guess God shows his love like so:

Deut 6:15
Num 14:18
And this shows the height of his trivial, short fuse. It seems God has a hissy fit and orders someone stoned that is picking up a stick.

And don't piss him off, he's one rapacious, trivial diety:
1 Sam. 2:31-34

Here, God has yet another titty attack, gets mad at a defensless wall, destroys it, and kills everyone that worked on it.

Here, this loving fellow couldn't find anyone to stand up to him, so what does he do? Why he kills everyone of course.

So, you might want to retract what you said about God loving people if they turn against him.

 

[Kal-el]

Life God gave us Life.

And also Satan is an angel cast out of heaven.

There's about 3 million Muslims that disagree with you here. So tell me, why are you right? There were hundreds of religions before and after Christianity, why is it the right one? Before you make anymore positive assertions, I'd probably begin by proving God's existence. Prove it by not using the bible. Because I can use a DC comic to prove Superman exists. And you bring up Satan, how come God didn't get rid of him yet? I think he's impotent, hardly omnipotent. If hell even has 1 occupant it is a testament to Satan winning the battle for mankinds souls. If only believer's of Jesus will enter the sky fortress, God's in bad shape. Christianity only represents 1/3 of the world's population. So, this loving God is sending 2/3 of his creation to burn in hell forever. Sounds fair.

 

[prince Albert]

Well, we can be sure we die someday, then you will know the truth.

Isn't that the real reason why humans have always believed in some sort of god because unlike other animals we are aware of our own mortality and it scares us.

 

[More Meat]

Sing it sister!

 

[Kal-el]

Isn't that the real reason why humans have always believed in some sort of god because unlike other animals we are aware of our own mortality and it scares us.

Yep. And to add to the attractiveness of Christianity, or almost any religion, to start gathering followers, they need a place of torment, something meant to scare the living shit out of people, and make them obedient, mindless, sheep. I figure without Satan, the Christian religion goes under. Because what's the point in being with God, if there's no punisHydromaxent for not being with him?

 

[Juggers]

Is your argument against God's character, or the fact that he cannot exist? And why discuss the crucifixion if you don't believe in God? Is it another way to prove that he doesn't exist, and if so how can you prove he doesn't exist? We as a people have a right to believe in whatever we want. The Bible was written by men who were inspired by the spirit of God, a book of instruction on how we should live to please God. If you don't want to beleive in God or the bible, what do you plan on achieving by defying it all? Why not just live your life day by day, doing what you feel is right in your own eyes until you die? You seem to be picking out parts of the bible that show Gods wrath, and yes, he does have wrath. And God does love people even if they turn away from him, if he didn't he wouldn't have sent Jesus to be crucified for us, your taking things from the old testament when the people were in a different covenant with God. Jesus changed things. Its easy to find verses in the bible that show God destroying a city, and saying "well, look, hes evil look what he did". You don't understand God is just and will punish the wicked. Man punishes man for things that he has done wrong, does that make us evil? Stop looking at one side of the pancake my friend.rofl

 

[Pandora]

There's about 3 million Muslims that disagree with you here. So tell me, why are you right? There were hundreds of religions before and after Christianity, why is it the right one? Before you make anymore positive assertions, I'd probably begin by proving God's existence. Prove it by not using the bible. Because I can use a DC comic to prove Superman exists. And you bring up Satan, how come God didn't get rid of him yet? I think he's impotent, hardly omnipotent. If hell even has 1 occupant it is a testament to Satan winning the battle for mankinds souls. If only believer's of Jesus will enter the sky fortress, God's in bad shape. Christianity only represents 1/3 of the world's population. So, this loving God is sending 2/3 of his creation to burn in hell forever. Sounds fair.

I can not prove there is a God like i said nobody knows.

How can you compare God to superman.

You know what if you think about how we where created it's just crazy and amazing where standing here flesh and bone bonded together emotions feeling happy sad crying amazing


Do you not feel God and Satan's presents enough to believe that there is something there a higher being.

you ever felt the presents of a ghost.

who's says there is a heaven and a hell there could be nothing and that scares me the most.

 

[Pandora]

How come satan is the one with the huge dick at least that is what i see when i have seen statue's.

 

[Kal-el]

Is your argument against God's character, or the fact that he cannot exist?

Well, I am familiar with the bible, and in it he is depicted as a lying, murderous, pimp. In it he kills more than Hitler, Stalin, and Napolean combined. I think Christians are worshipping the wrong fictional charcater here, it should be Eve or Judas, maybe even Satan. I'm tired of Christians painting a rosy picture of God, and those who are apprenticed on scripture soak it all up. If the God of the bible is attributed the omnimax attributes, he cannot exist.

And why discuss the crucifixion if you don't believe in God?

In order to show how frivolous, ridiculous the notion of a savage, barbaric, crucifixian is.

Is it another way to prove that he doesn't exist, and if so how can you prove he doesn't exist?

I cannot, but the burden of proof is on the Christians- they are making the positive assertion here. They are making a direct claim about reality; it affects everyone. If they said this "I believe God exists" that's fine, their opinions aren't up for debate. For instance, if I was taken aboard a UFO, would you just believe me, or would you want proof? The same if I said I had Superman's powers. Of course you wouldn't just believe me without seeing me do anything that's unique to his powers. You would want to see me fly or lift a house or something. Why is it any different when an athiest asks for proof of your God? And now that we're on the subject, the disciples needed eye-witness proof of the carpenter's ressurection, Paul needed an encounter with Jesus, Thomas needed to touch him, but skeptisicm was fine then, but since it's been a sure-fire ticket to hell.

We as a people have a right to believe in whatever we want.

De acuerdo. I'm not arguing that. You're right.

The Bible was written by men who were inspired by the spirit of God, a book of instruction on how we should live to please God.

The bible was written for uneducated people, and it was written by man, not a God. Whether you say it was inspired by God is irrelevant. I could say I was inspired by God to write a book about how Superman exists, and be right in saying that, for "I was inspired by God." Why should we live to please him? Does he have an ego problem?

If you don't want to beleive in God or the bible, what do you plan on achieving by defying it all? Why not just live your life day by day, doing what you feel is right in your own eyes until you die?

Well, like it or not it affects my life even if I have nothing to do with God. Our currency has his name, our President makes desicions based upon conversations he thinks he has with him; I think someone who believes in mystical bullshit is severley underequipped to dictate morality to us.

You seem to be picking out parts of the bible that show Gods wrath, and yes, he does have wrath.

You don't have to tell me, he condones slavery, actually so does Jesus, and God orders rapes and killings, he's nothing but a mafia-headman or clan wizard.

And God does love people even if they turn away from him,

Ahh, so tiring. Chapter, verse? Scripture based, or your opinion?

if he didn't he wouldn't have sent Jesus to be crucified for us,

For us? What exactly did the nailing of a carpenter to a log of wood solvent? Sin? Ha, there is more than enough so called sin in the world? And if Jesus was omniscient it wasn't much of a sacrifice, he had to know his dad would jumpstart him with a divine defibulator. And if God created everything, he introduced sin into the world, so in all reality, he was forced to kill his son or himself to save his creation from a mistake he's responsible for. Not a rocket scientist is he?

your taking things from the old testament when the people were in a different covenant with God.

Are there 2 different God's here?

Jesus changed things.

True to a point, but remember, he came to uphold the Mosaic law, not abolish it.

Its easy to find verses in the bible that show God destroying a city, and saying "well, look, hes evil look what he did". You don't understand God is just and will punish the wicked. Man punishes man for things that he has done wrong, does that make us evil? Stop looking at one side of the pancake my friend.rofl

Ok, I'll tell ya what, how's about you show me where the bible represents reality. And what logic tells you that your God loves anything at all? How do you even know it has such an emotion? Do you have any proof that your diety sees anything as evil or good or care about humans at all?

 

[Kal-el]

I can not prove there is a God like i said nobody knows.

Right, then some should stop acting like his official spokespeople.

How can you compare God to superman.

Well, let's see
Weakness- Superman (kryptonite) God (Iron chariots)

Villan- Lex Luthor, Satan
Book- DC Comics, Bible
Star- Clark Kent, Jehovah, I AM

Do you not feel God and Satan's presents enough to believe that there is something there a higher being.

Nope, and I think if someone claimed that God or Satan touched them they would probably be institionilized.

you ever felt the presents of a ghost.

Nope

who's says there is a heaven and a hell there could be nothing and that scares me the most.

Why would that scare you? I would think if the bible God is real, humanity is in a shitload of trouble.

Edit: Let me get this straight- you buy into a 2,000 year old story about a man nailed to a log of wood, but reject pink unicorns? Bigfoot?

 

[Kal-el]

How come satan is the one with the huge dick at least that is what i see when i have seen statue's.

Really??? It doesn't suprise me, he probably ass rapes God as in the book of Job they are bussom buddies.

 

[Pandora]

Right, then some should stop acting like his official spokespeople.

lol

Well, let's see
Weakness- Superman (kryptonite) God (Iron chariots)

Villan- Lex Luthor, Satan
Book- DC Comics, Bible
Star- Clark Kent, Jehovah, I AM

Yeah but you know superman is fiction you don't know weather God is real or not you can believe that he is real or not but you do not know

Why would that scare you? I would think if the bible God is real, humanity is in a shitload of trouble.

I don't know but when i think of life and how everything has come about i don't want to leave it like the beauty of a women or the feeling of rain or a thunder storm.

Edit: Let me get this straight- you buy into a 2,000 year old story about a man nailed to a log of wood, but reject pink unicorns? Bigfoot?

You ever watch The Passion of The Christ - A Mel Gibson Film that made me cry why would i cry if it was not true but at the end of the day i do not know there is only faith my son.

 

[Pandora]

Really??? It doesn't suprise me, he probably ass rapes God as in the book of Job they are bussom buddies.

I still notice this tho i never seen a picture of God with a massive penis maybe its just because of the artist's tho.

 

[penguinsfan]

I think the Bible is the most murderous, gruesome book that man has ever concocted.

It might have the greatest number of accounts of evil deeds of man and some harsh violence in the Old Testament, but at least the New Testament has left a different set of principles to live by. It is certainly NOT the book that inspires the most violence and murder among the more fanatical followers.

For example, BTC Killer put that image that Christians would consider blasphemous when complaining about his wife making him go to church. I would invite him to post that image on a Christian forum and list his real name and home address. Then I would invite him to go to an Islamic forum and post an image of Mohammed buttfucking Mohammed and list his real name and home address. Who will he fear?

 

[Kal-el]

l
Yeah but you know superman is fiction you don't know weather God is real or not you can believe that he is real or not but you do not know

You never know, 2,000 years from now if people find copies of DC or Marvel comics they won't know who Stan Lee or Jeph Loeb are? It never states in the comics that Supes or Spidey are fictional. It's just accecpted nowadays.

I don't know but when i think of life and how everything has come about i don't want to leave it like the beauty of a women or the feeling of rain or a thunder storm.

Where does your sky monkey come into play here?

You ever watch The Passion of The Christ - A Mel Gibson Film that made me cry why would i cry if it was not true but at the end of the day i do not know there is only faith my son.

Well I remember back in the day when Michael Jackson came out with the video "Thriller" remember at the end when he had those cat eyes. Well, since I was real young I had terrible nightmares over it, I probably cried a few times. By your logic that's real too. As for faith. I agree, it is faith. The absence of facts. Belief that does not rest on proof or evidence. Faith lives and thrives off of ignorance, so in order to maintain that faith, one must maintain the said ignorance. The truly sad part of the whole situation is that all the people who are duped by the rabid lies of Christianity have children, and they brainwash them into blindly accepting the very same lies and absurdities.

 

[Kal-el]

It might have the greatest number of accounts of evil deeds of man and some harsh violence in the Old Testament, but at least the New Testament has left a different set of principles to live by. It is certainly NOT the book that inspires the most violence and murder among the more fanatical followers.

Hey penguinsfan, ¿Què te pasa amigo? Actually, almost every single religious text inspires violence by fanatics. For example, I'm pretty sure in the Koran, Allah tells his followers to kill the "infidel" or non-believer. So, these Muslim extremists that we see can use the excuse that their God wants them to carry out a final solution, so to speak. The bible God instructs his followers to kill those who do any type of work on the sabbath. If these religious texts were cencored, I'm willing to bet a 9/11 would have never happened. Actually, while the NT might be more child-friendly, it's lies are rampant. It's packed full of lies and hyperbole. Let me give you an example:

Matthew 21:21
John 14:14
Matthew 7:7
Mark 11:24

Let there be no confusion here. There is no indication from the carpenter that evil people will be ignored when asking for help, he also sets no boundaries on what you may pray for. If this is true, what would the Christian God do if 2 highly religious people prayed that the exact same mountain would move in oppositte directions? I figure there are a couple scenarios: 1)Jesus is an imposter, and he is blatantly being less than truthful, 2)Jesus and God are figmants of our imagination, and simply characters in a book, 3)Jesus was telling the truth, it's either God can't do anything, or he refuses to. Numero dos sounds more logical to me, it explains why millions of people who lost limbs in wars, and people who are afflicted with various diseases pray, and their prayers go unanswered.

For example, BTC Killer put that image that Christians would consider blasphemous when complaining about his wife making him go to church. I would invite him to post that image on a Christian forum and list his real name and home address.

Well that's pretty stupid to do, don't you think. Thats kinda like Alphaplhie coming on here to say pe is a waste of time, coming on a pe forum and spewing that. You get the picture.

Then I would invite him to go to an Islamic forum and post an image of Mohammed buttfucking Mohammed and list his real name and home address. Who will he fear?

Again, unless BTC has a death wish, I wouldn't suggest he do this. What do you mean by who will he fear?

 

[Pandora]

You never know, 2,000 years from now if people find copies of DC or Marvel comics they won't know who Stan Lee or Jeph Loeb are? It never states in the comics that Supes or Spidey are fictional. It's just accecpted nowadays.

Nar i cant see that happening we have the Internet now technology can only go forward.

Where does your sky monkey come into play here?

My point is things just don't happen to me it feel as tho they have to be created so there has to be a creator.

Well I remember back in the day when Michael Jackson came out with the video "Thriller" remember at the end when he had those cat eyes. Well, since I was real young I had terrible nightmares over it, I probably cried a few times. By your logic that's real too. As for faith. I agree, it is faith. The absence of facts. Belief that does not rest on proof or evidence. Faith lives and thrives off of ignorance, so in order to maintain that faith, one must maintain the said ignorance. The truly sad part of the whole situation is that all the people who are duped by the rabid lies of Christianity have children, and they brainwash them into blindly accepting the very same lies and absurdities.

If its bullshit why has it not been forgotten allready why is there so many fellows.

 

[penguinsfan]

Hey penguinsfan, ¿Què te pasa amigo? Actually, almost every single religious text inspires violence by fanatics. For example, I'm pretty sure in the Koran, Allah tells his followers to kill the "infidel" or non-believer. So, these Muslim extremists that we see can use the excuse that their God wants them to carry out a final solution, so to speak. The bible God instructs his followers to kill those who do any type of work on the sabbath. If these religious texts were cencored, I'm willing to bet a 9/11 would have never happened. Actually, while the NT might be more child-friendly, it's lies are rampant. It's packed full of lies and hyperbole. Let me give you an example:

Religious texts as followed by Jew, Christians, and perhaps others have adapted or evolved to the point where there is no open-ended command to commit violence that is believed to this day. For example, many commandments in the Leviticus law are done away with by the teachings in the New Testament. Obviously, not all muslims hold those commands to be valid in this modern day, but we cannot ignore its been problematic within that religion. It is interesting that Judaism is obviously based on the Old Testament alone yet does not hold onto the literal commands of the Leviticus law to this day.

It is also interesting to debate if 9/11 would have happened without such extreme theological references. I would suspect it might not have happened, because the religious element within Islamic terror groups is very real, but mankind will also find some kind of justification for his evil deeds and someone else to scapegoat. Would our world still have violent atrocities without religion? You bet your ass it would!

Again, unless BTC has a death wish, I wouldn't suggest he do this. What do you mean by who will he fear?

I'm simply pointing out that the greatest problems among violence exists within the muslim world and there is where we really should be working on. The point is that, as crazy as some of the ideas that fundamentalist Christians have (I am not attending any church at this point, but find myself leaning towards Orthodoxy from a theological standpoint), they're relatively easy to live with. Yes, there are isolated instances of the abortion doctor getting gunned down, but that is pretty isolated. It's occurred fewer times than the number of explosions in Baghdad on its best day. I was just making that point. It really had little to do with the philosophical questions you posed.

 

[penguinsfan]

Well I remember back in the day when Michael Jackson came out with the video "Thriller" remember at the end when he had those cat eyes. Well, since I was real young I had terrible nightmares over it, I probably cried a few times.

That was a freaky video for its time.

 

[Kal-el]

Nar i cant see that happening we have the Internet now technology can only go forward.

You seem to not get my point here, you don't know how people thought of the stories that have become religion when they were first told. It may very well have been considered crazy to believe that such stories were real.

Further, you are also hypothesizing that people in 2,000 years will know that Jeoph Loeb or Stan Lee were actual people. They might think that they were mythological characters, some scribe whose job it was to write down the adventures of Superman in the same way that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are acknowledged the writers of the stories of Jesus.

To add to this, comics are not all we have of Superman, or Spiderman. We have movies, novels, discussion groups, songs, and other shit. We have no idea what will survive into the future and what will not, (i.e. the internet) so we can't even guess how future generations would interpret the technology, media we use now. Time has a way of gradually evolving what people think of a subject or an event so that what we know to be true often gets mixed up with what we don't know to be false. That's why people still believe we found WMDs in Iraq, and Marilyn Manson had a lung removed so he could suck himself off.

While it would seem to us in this time and place that belief in Superman is absurd, separated by time, that belief is absolutely possible. The same is true of Christianity, and that's where I was getting at.

My point is things just don't happen to me it feel as tho they have to be created so there has to be a creator.

O, the infamous "God of the Gaps". Science cannot explain it, so right away God did it. Well, the Big Bang is not a fact, but it sheds more light on the subject than any religious theory outthere. Religion just states that God did it, at least science has the smarts to have a map and ask questions. I have a question for you- if the single attribute of being created depends on a maker, who made God?

If its bullshit why has it not been forgotten allready why is there so many fellows.

You can't be serious, can you? This is a classic arguement from popularity. You're basically saying that since so many people believe in God, they must be right? Well, how many people used to believe the earth was flat before technology was discovered to make it known? Whether it's a God or a flat earth, all those beliefs come from a primitive mindset or understanding of nature based on distorted data.

 

[Pandora]

You seem to not get my point here, you don't know how people thought of the stories that have become religion when they were first told. It may very well have been considered crazy to believe that such stories were real.

Further, you are also hypothesizing that people in 2,000 years will know that Jeoph Loeb or Stan Lee were actual people. They might think that they were mythological characters, some scribe whose job it was to write down the adventures of Superman in the same way that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are acknowledged the writers of the stories of Jesus.

To add to this, comics are not all we have of Superman, or Spiderman. We have movies, novels, discussion groups, songs, and other shit. We have no idea what will survive into the future and what will not, (i.e. the internet) so we can't even guess how future generations would interpret the technology, media we use now. Time has a way of gradually evolving what people think of a subject or an event so that what we know to be true often gets mixed up with what we don't know to be false. That's why people still believe we found WMDs in Iraq, and Marilyn Manson had a lung removed so he could suck himself off.

While it would seem to us in this time and place that belief in Superman is absurd, separated by time, that belief is absolutely possible. The same is true of Christianity, and that's where I was getting at.

Technology will only go forward come on were gonna go back to being a cave man yeah right lol.

Its not the same what you are saying will never happen there will never be a superman but God may walk on earth again.

O, the infamous "God of the Gaps". Science cannot explain it, so right away God did it. Well, the Big Bang is not a fact, but it sheds more light on the subject than any religious theory outthere. Religion just states that God did it, at least science has the smarts to have a map and ask questions. I have a question for you- if the single attribute of being created depends on a maker, who made God?

God made himself or obviously his God lol but that is a good one.

You can't be serious, can you? This is a classic arguement from popularity. You're basically saying that since so many people believe in God, they must be right? Well, how many people used to believe the earth was flat before technology was discovered to make it known? Whether it's a God or a flat earth, all those beliefs come from a primitive mindset or understanding of nature based on distorted data.

OK so why have they not discovered weather god exists yet then, they have sure had enough time.

 

[prince Albert]

The truly sad part of the whole situation is that all the people who are duped by the rabid lies of Christianity have children, and they brainwash them into blindly accepting the very same lies and absurdities.

That is very true,if you ask people who believe in god the question "Why do you believe in god" they often carn't give you an answer.

Ive been an atheist since about 11 or 12,my wife on the other hand is a believer but not in the normal church goer sense.

I don't have a problem with those who choose to believe,if it makes them happy then why not.

We agreed to raise our kids without pushing religion onto them,they can learn about it themselves when they are old enough to grasp the idea and if they want to believe then fine.

Just recently my oldest daughter who is 7 came home from school and started talking about adam and eve,jesus and a fair bit of other stuff.

The scarey thing is that when i asked her if she believed what she had been told she said yes the teacher told me it must be true.

I think this is one of the reasons that alot of adults are prepared to blindly believe in god because from a young age they are basicaly brainwashed into accepting religion as fact.

 

[Kal-el]

That is very true,if you ask people who believe in god the question "Why do you believe in god" they often carn't give you an answer.

Ive been an atheist since about 11 or 12,my wife on the other hand is a believer but not in the normal church goer sense.

I don't have a problem with those who choose to believe,if it makes them happy then why not.

We agreed to raise our kids without pushing religion onto them,they can learn about it themselves when they are old enough to grasp the idea and if they want to believe then fine.

Just recently my oldest daughter who is 7 came home from school and started talking about adam and eve,jesus and a fair bit of other stuff.

The scarey thing is that when i asked her if she believed what she had been told she said yes the teacher told me it must be true.

I think this is one of the reasons that alot of adults are prepared to blindly believe in god because from a young age they are basicaly brainwashed into accepting religion as fact.

So true. I personally have only been an atheist for a few years, outspoken anyway. For a couple years I was basically sitting on the sidelines, quietly, while theists and atheists battled it out. Atheism is the clear and rational alternative to confusion, fear, and superstition that's offered by a religion. Atheism encourages freedom of thought and inquiry, while religion requires unquestioning obedience and blind faith. My main problem with religion stems from the lack of evidence behind them. Every single religion claims they are right, and to me, that is enough proof that they are wrong.

 

[Kal-el]

Technology will only go forward come on were gonna go back to being a cave man yeah right lol.

Did you even read what I wrote? I said time has a way of evolving. I don't think the internet will be around in 2,000 years, I'm quite sure they'll be something 100x better. For the sake of arguement, let's say a disaster strikes and wipes most of humanity out. Then 100s of years later, humanity begins again. One day people are searching, and they find a Bible. Then they find a DC comic. Who's to say what they are gonna think. Who's to know if they find a Tom Clancy book, how will they know it's fiction?

Its not the same what you are saying will never happen there will never be a superman but God may walk on earth again.

Says who? Please define this God. God spoke frequently throughout the OT, why haven't we heard him since? Laryngitis? Dude, if you can't prove it it's baseless dogma, text from a contradictory book of legends proves nothing. Please admit that's this "God" idea is your opinion and not truth. Remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

God made himself or obviously his God lol but that is a good one.

His God? So, the Christian God didn't create evything? I was under the opinion that it is believed that he literally sprang out of nothingness to create the world in 6 days, and needed to rest on the 7th? God made himself, what was he bored? A perfect entity shows no emotions. Before we argue on and on, you must prove this:

1. Define God
2. Prove such an entity exists
3.Prove that he had a son
4. Prove that he can raise the dead

After you can prove.. Scratch that. Just define your God, then we'll talk.

OK so why have they not discovered weather god exists yet then, they have sure had enough time.

Hey, hey science takes time. I'm sure you don't tell a surgeon how to operate? Well they have not found a white-bearded sky despot anywhere. The more science advances, the less space your God occupies. if there was a God, and he was Loving, like you claim, why don't he make himself known? I have a nice, comfortable chair in my room, that's waiting for God to park his fat ass on.

 

[Pandora]

Did you even read what I wrote? I said time has a way of evolving. I don't think the internet will be around in 2,000 years, I'm quite sure they'll be something 100x better. For the sake of arguement, let's say a disaster strikes and wipes most of humanity out. Then 100s of years later, humanity begins again. One day people are searching, and they find a Bible. Then they find a DC comic. Who's to say what they are gonna think. Who's to know if they find a Tom Clancy book, how will they know it's fiction?




Says who? Please define this God. God spoke frequently throughout the OT, why haven't we heard him since? Laryngitis? Dude, if you can't prove it it's baseless dogma, text from a contradictory book of legends proves nothing. Please admit that's this "God" idea is your opinion and not truth. Remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.





His God? So, the Christian God didn't create evything? I was under the opinion that it is believed that he literally sprang out of nothingness to create the world in 6 days, and needed to rest on the 7th? God made himself, what was he bored? A perfect entity shows no emotions. Before we argue on and on, you must prove this:

1. Define God
2. Prove such an entity exists
3.Prove that he had a son
4. Prove that he can raise the dead

After you can prove.. Scratch that. Just define your God, then we'll talk.





Hey, hey science takes time. I'm sure you don't tell a surgeon how to operate? Well they have not found a white-bearded sky despot anywhere. The more science advances, the less space your God occupies. if there was a God, and he was Loving, like you claim, why don't he make himself known? I have a nice, comfortable chair in my room, that's waiting for God to park his fat ass on.

Why don't you prove that he does not exist

 

[Kal-el]

Why don't you prove that he does not exist

C'mon Pandora, you know better than that man. I don't have to. Theists are making the positive claim here, hence they have the obligation to prove it; the burden of proof is on them. Like I said before, if I said I was abducted by aliens, taken aboard a UFO, would you believe me? Probably not, thus I would be rquired to produce evidence in order to be taken seriously. The same is true of your invisable man. Atheism does not claim that God doesn't exist; just that they lack a belief in any Gods. Atheism is the default position. Every child was an atheist at birth. It isn't until they are literally brainwashed a God belief that they accept it.

 

[Pandora]

C'mon Pandora, you know better than that man. I don't have to. Theists are making the positive claim here, hence they have the obligation to prove it; the burden of proof is on them. Like I said before, if I said I was abducted by aliens, taken aboard a UFO, would you believe me? Probably not, thus I would be rquired to produce evidence in order to be taken seriously. The same is true of your invisable man. Atheism does not claim that God doesn't exist; just that they lack a belief in any Gods. Atheism is the default position. Every child was an atheist at birth. It isn't until they are literally brainwashed a God belief that they accept it.

The proof is the Bible and apparently aliens do exist we are not alone

 

[Kal-el]

The proof is the Bible and apparently aliens do exist we are not alone

Throughout the pages of the bible, you're skydaddy is shown to be a jealous, trivial, serial killer diety. He has killed more than the worst depsots did all time, he had a 2,000 page book written about himself so he can brag about himself. He advocates hatred, intolerance, and violence. God is so "loving" and "forgiving" that he punishes people eternally for crimes committed in a finite lifetime. The bible is simply an article of faith, and faith happens when one doesn't accept reality at face value. Not to mention, the bible contradicts itself at every corner. You cannot use the bible to prove the bible correct, any more than you can use a DC comic to prove that kids can fly. You seem to be failing to acknowledge a simple idea here. The bible is the sole source of the claim that God exists, hence it cannot be used as evidence to support itself.

 

[Pandora]

Throughout the pages of the bible, you're skydaddy is shown to be a jealous, trivial, serial killer diety. He has killed more than the worst depsots did all time, he had a 2,000 page book written about himself so he can brag about himself. He advocates hatred, intolerance, and violence. God is so "loving" and "forgiving" that he punishes people eternally for crimes committed in a finite lifetime. The bible is simply an article of faith, and faith happens when one doesn't accept reality at face value. Not to mention, the bible contradicts itself at every corner. You cannot use the bible to prove the bible correct, any more than you can use a DC comic to prove that kids can fly. You seem to be failing to acknowledge a simple idea here. The bible is the sole source of the claim that God exists, hence it cannot be used as evidence to support itself.

lol