Anyone see UFC 52?

Hey RED and sikdogg, tell me more about what kind of fighting you guys do.

Sik, it seems like I remember you saying someting about MMA before. Maybe we discussed it, but I forgot about it if we did.

Red,
I'm like you and love to watch all sorts of fights. I used to have a buddy that owned a martial arts store that sold videos and we used to watch all of it. Vale Tudo is awesome... We also used to watch Muay Thai, Shooto, Pancrase, Pride, and alot of bare knuckle karate fights (kyokushin Kai and Sabaki). It's all good...

I agree that the thumb in Couture's eye wasn't intentional. I think that Liddel is a straight up fighter and would never fight dirty... that said, i still believe that the thumb in his eye was a major contributing factor in Couture's loss. Although i also think Couture's days are numbered, he probably still has a couple more years left i him. Funny how i was saying the same thing about Couture a year and a half to two years ago when he was fighting in the heavy weights. It's hard to count him out...

penguinsfan,
Regarding Ken Shamrock, i was never that impressed with him. Yes he did very well in the first few UFC's but he quickly went down hill after that. He was a porcelin fighter in that he was so fragile and always hurt his hand or something whenever he fought. He can cross train all he wants, it didn't make a difference. He made his mark in the UFC but if you ever saw any of his other fights, he got his ass kicked often by guys like Bas Ruttan. Frank Shamrock is a different story, he had alot of talent. He whooped Tito's ass in like 30 seconds the first time they met.

Tito was only great relative to the fighters that were around at the time. Like you said, he was an above average fighter at best.

I think you may be mixing up Frank Shamrock's fight with Tito with, well almost everyone else he fought in the UFC. Tito and Frank's fight was a war, and still one of the best to date. Not that i'm even a Tito fan, I was definitely rooting for Frank, but it bears correcting IMHO with all due respect.
Sikdogg, was it you who said before you were a bouncer? I can't quite remember but I thought so.
RED. I agree with almost all that you said except the part about V. Silva. If you've only seen him in the IVC and other Vale Tudo Brazil events than you missing out quite a bit, he is dominating the hell out of the top international fighters in Pride, no other Brazilians come to my mind immediately that I would pick to be an obvious winner over him. Maybe they could beat him, but damn would they have some scars to show for it. The main gyms in Brazil are Rudimar Fedrigo's Chute Boxe where Silva trains, and then theres Boxe Thai, and BTT (Brazilian Top Team). Everyone from Chute Boxe admits to Silva being the top dog over there, and theres a rivalry between them and the others so even if they knew such, they would be hard pressed to admit or want to believe it.
I personally never cared for Ortiz, but he did just beat Belfort much to my surprise who IMO is a superstar, so while he's not as good as he would like to believe, I would give him more credit.

bIgjOe said:

I think you may be mixing up Frank Shamrock's fight with Tito with, well almost everyone else he fought in the UFC. Tito and Frank's fight was a war, and still one of the best to date. Not that i'm even a Tito fan, I was definitely rooting for Frank, but it bears correcting IMHO with all due respect.

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Hmmm... i must be thinking of a different fight then. I could have sworn that Frank Stomped Tito. I'm gonna have to look for the old tapes now...

Sikdogg, was it you who said before you were a bouncer? I can't quite remember but I thought so.

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Yea i did some part-time bouncing about 10 years ago. Mostly at a nasty rundown punk club. I hate those fuckers... they were always spitting and talking shit.

Yea Silva has definitely been dominating in Pride. I hope the UFC and Pride come to terms with a unification fight.

sikdogg said:

Hmmm... i must be thinking of a different fight then. I could have sworn that Frank Stomped Tito. I'm gonna have to look for the old tapes now...


Yea i did some part-time bouncing about 10 years ago. Mostly at a nasty rundown punk club. I hate those fuckers... they were always spitting and talking shit.

Yea Silva has definitely been dominating in Pride. I hope the UFC and Pride come to terms with a unification fight.

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Oh no I wasn't saying he didn't stomp Tito, I was just saying it took more than 30 seconds. Yeah the end of the fight resulted in a serious ass wupping for Tito, and a win for Frank, but it took like 30 mins and was a war up til the end. I guess it kinda sounded like Tito won now that I read back on it lol. Yeah I agree Couture needs to win back his title and take on Silva.

If Silva and Couture ever fight, i would sell my mom to be there in person.

sikdogg said:

If Silva and Couture ever fight, i would sell my mom to be there in person.

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lol AGREED!

what are you all chirpin about

Gracie will still whip em all, even at 37

the man is immortal

I have alot of respect for Royce and how he changed the way people fight in the UFC. I trained with on of his students and know how technical he is but the fact is he's lost his last few matches. The worst part is that the guys he lost to weren't considered cream of the crop and that he fought them under BJJ style rules. The pure BJJ fighter just isn't competitive these days against the Matt Hughes, Couture's, and Silva's of the world. He just doesn't have the striking skills necessary to be competitive agains a good ground and pound fighter.

You know why he doesn't compete in these anymore

because he's already done more than anyone will ever do, and he gets millions now to make special guest appearances.

like this one in Japan, where he fought the greatest sumo wrestler of all time, and current champion, Akibono, in a full contact match.

Look what he does to the 450+ lb man

http://www.roycegracie.tv/AkebonoVsRoyce.wmv

he is still the best, i guarantee it

sikdogg said:

I have alot of respect for Royce and how he changed the way people fight in the UFC. I trained with on of his students and know how technical he is but the fact is he's lost his last few matches. The worst part is that the guys he lost to weren't considered cream of the crop and that he fought them under BJJ style rules. The pure BJJ fighter just isn't competitive these days against the Matt Hughes, Couture's, and Silva's of the world. He just doesn't have the striking skills necessary to be competitive agains a good ground and pound fighter.

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i didn't see him lose, i mean tapout

i saw refs prematurely step in, like the Sakuraba fight

but in a real, no rounds, no judges, type fight, he is immortal

and its to his advantage to have no breaks and rounds, he is a real fighter, the hardest of the hardcore

i remember him beating Dan Severyn, that fight inspired me to train BJJ, actually, Pankration, was the closest thing we had here, which is almost identical. I got my black belt, which was easier than i thought, i already had a bb in karate and over 100 amateur boxing fights, which was a lot of help.
Now i am a pro kickboxer, of all things, if you can believe that.
I'm training everyday, and fighting on June 5, i believe.
I want a belt, and then i'm going to hollywood.

I love this fighting shit, it's totally relaxing. My cousin was the 1995 World Heavyweight Pankration Champion. Might as well throw a plug his way, he has his own club now.

i need to make my way down south to train, not a lot of good kickboxers around here, i gotta spar with boxers, my legs are getting rusty.

That clip shows just how technical Royce is... how he positions himself by using his feet to keep his head above Akibono's and how he shifts his hips to position himself to get around an opponent. That said, he was fighting a guy who clearly didn't have a clue with regards to groundfighting and/or JuJitsu. Sumo wrestling is similar to Greco Roman wrestling which is a standup method of grappling. This was more of an exhibition match than a serious MMA match.

I don't want to badmouth Royce, but he's lost to pure BJJ fighters in the past. I don't think that he would ever consider fighting someone like Couture or Silva. He would prolly love to fight a guy like Liddel thinking that he would simply take him to the ground and suBathmateit him. He would prolly get knocked out by Liddel.

Royce would never get knocked out by Chuck.

If the fight should ever happen, i'll gladly bet on it.

reread my post just prior to yours, and tell me who he's lost to under those conditions.

chainandballer said:

i didn't see him lose, i mean tapout

i saw refs prematurely step in, like the Sakuraba fight...

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Yea but after the Sakuraba fight he got choked out by a BJJ fighter in a BJJ match. It wasn't even an MMA fight I don't remember his name right now but i'll look it up.

on another note

my girl comes over today, i'm asleep

i leave my jes out beside my bed

she walks right by my bed, picks up the jes, and says: "whats this for, so you can pull your dick out to the other room."

half asleep, i say:"it's for you baby, so i can fuck you from farther away."

i was gonna put it away, but was too lazy to get out of bed, i figured she'd never know what it is anyway.

I believe Wallid Ismail beat Royce in a pure BJJ match in Brazil by taking his back, but I don't know if this is the match Sikdogg is talking about.

it's possible, even roy jones got beat

but you can't deny what they had done

he was, and always will be the best ufc fighter i ever saw, i can't see anyone duplicating him, he is responsible for what the sport has become, like hulk hogan was to wrestling.

Yea Wallid was the one i was talking about...

Roy jones got beat by a younger and better fighter, Wallid was never that great and still isn't... he simply beat royce at his own game and choked him out.

That all said, i'm not trying to take away anything from Royce. He has certainly changed the way people fight and brought BJJ to the public. I was just saying that the edge he once had against his opponents is long gone. Most good fighters today are well versed in groundfighting and it is 10 times as hard for a pure BJJ fighter to win the UFC and other MMA contests.