The Ultimate Inner Game Seminar: BluePrint Decoded!

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lamplight

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Hey, I've been in the dating community for a pretty long time now, and this is by far the best program I have ever seen. It's about making a deep identity level change, to the point where you become a complete natural that sees meeting women as something as easy as brushing your teeth.

It's worth checking out. Owen Cook is the man. Here's the youtube link:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KHxIUtau-7I
 
RSD is good but i much prefer TMM with C&F... RSD is too much inner game and not enough structure. From what i've read about their bootcamps, they push everyone to open set after set but don't really teach much past that. I understand that inner game is important but there's more to gaming than that.

That said... Tyler Durden is very well known and respected in the PUA community.
 
I understand what you mean. I've been into DYD and MM.

But i still think RSD has the right idea. I actually think RSD and DYD are both better than MM. And I Think that Tyler has a good point when he's saying that a lot of people become response junkies instead of developing good natural game.

As for Mystery, I think he's is fundamentally a really insecure person. He's just developed a very effective way of shielding it through a variety of tricks and tactics. Not to say those tactics don't work, but I think if that's all you learn you don't really evolve as much as you could. So structure is important, but it's more like a set of training wheels than anything else.
 
It's only training wheels if you use it as a bible and not as a starting point... Every beginner needs structure and only from experience will one's natural game develop. RSD focusses too much on inner game which is not entirely a bad thing but for aspiring pua's, they need a tried and true blueprint to gain success which eventually leads to strong inner game. The people who try to sell the structure/training wheels analogy are the guys trying to sell you their own programs. I have never read anyone say anything bad about TMM bootcamps but i have read alot of bad press about RSD bootcamps.

TMM uses structure and framework to gain success and confidence necessary for a strong inner game. RSD builds strong inner game in the begining and tries to work on the other things later. It's a chicken and egg thing... RSD will work better on some and TMM will work better on others. I just prefer TMM because anyone can take it as is and be successful right away... but once you become confident and develop your inner game, it is natural to deviate from the structure and do what works for you based on your experience. TMM is also the basis for alot of other programs offered today. You have to remember that 10 years ago, there weren't that many guys teaching this stuff... the biggies back then were Ross Jeffries and Mystery. Tyler Durden was part of the Mystery crew where he slowly developed RSD and started competing with Mystery.

I agree with you about Mystery being insecure... he's a head case but his theories and methods have made ALOT of successful pua's...
 
DYD + MM is ownage I think. Honestly David DeAngelo has to be my personal favorite by far of all the big-name seduction teachers. He makes it to where you actually internalize all this stuff and you no longer need any sort of lines/routines/etc. It all comes naturally! In his words, "You just GET IT!"

I've seen his Deep Inner Game series, listened to his Cocky Comedy series, read his Sexual Communication book (http://freewebs.com/maestro_mr/SCW.pdf) and am watching his Advanced (dating) series right now. In a few short weeks I went from having one girl hookups/potentials/friends (of course I was in a pretty serious open relationship) to having so many girls to keep up with I can't! I was literally walking down the street today thinking, "Hmm, which girls do I need to text today that I forgot to or haven't recently" (can't abandon them, gotta shuffle). I just had sex with two radiant women today, but I'll post that up on my older ex-gf post.

Also I should mention I had an absolute 10 (or some would say HB11 even, for real!) at a party last weekend getting heavy physically in talking (deep sexual communication), rubbing on her perfect ass, low part of back, back neck, etc. She has a boyfriend, told me, and I just immediately and CONGRUENTLY responded, "Oh, so do I, and don't try and tempt me and cheat on him, he doesn't like that." She giggled and kept giving me a very sexual look and gave me her number and said she wanted to "smoke out with me soon." I have talked with her in the past and even made out with her drunkenly once, but she has always had a boyfriend. There's a ton of sexual tension there and I LOVE IT!

When you truly start learning how to talk to a woman on their level in a primal, sexual sense, it's OVER! It's unbelievable how natural this stuff starts becoming. I approached several sets of gorgeous women (9s and up), not nervous at all, this past weekend (RoundUp Weekend is a huge party weekend here at UT), managed to connect with a few of them and get their numbers and keep contact, although I got cock blocked pretty hard on one hot, horny fresHydromaxan red-headed girl. Her three sober (one ugly one was really doing the cock blocking, befriended her as well as I could, but it seems she was jealous not leaving at the end of the night with a guy) friends ended up being the reason; shit sure was hot and heavy on the dance floor though. I've only just begun living life like this, but I can see myself having all the success I ever dreamed of, not only with women, but in my own life.
 
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Yeah, I'm a really big fan of David Deangelo as well. I guess I should have specified that BluePrint is better for people who have gotten past the beginner levels.

The thing that i like about it though (and I've watched Dr. Paul and David D), is that it takes on a bit more of eastern philosophy on the ego and holistic thoughts. I know that's a bit too whuu whuu for a lot of guys, but sometimes the seduction community can get a little bit too nerdy and intellectual, focusing only on evolution and primal human behaviors. Dr.Paul actually talks about the different parts of the human brain and makes some good distinctions in "Omega Male", but other than that it tends to get a little primal "Richard Dawkins" style.

One guy at the RSD seminar even said that he at one point started to evaluate all his decisions according to what would serve him best from an evolutionary standpoint. So this stuff can really be taken to extremes sometimes.

One great thing that Tyler said was: "The more you are able to hold to conflicting truths in your head at the same time, the more flexible you are." Because guess what, reality is composed of just that. As this point i could continue by talking about Ken Wilber and Ingeralism, but I'll do you all a favor and round off now. :P
 
Mystery's stuff on negging and the process behind pickup is a pretty good one. I like how he splits his stages up (A/C/S) and how he speaks of the "time bridges" needed to build comfort in order for her to finally put out (hopefully within 4-10 hours total of hanging out with you). It's just that the guy has NO inner game at all. Oh, I think he himself does (especially after he was a TV star), but he doesn't teach you how to develop yourself. I've had success just using his material only, but I always felt like I was scrambling to find the right thing to say and was really overjudging the communication and just not letting it flow like I can now. According to Deangelo's views, my "problem" a lot of times (and I'm sure with a lot of guys using Mystery's Method) was that I was talking to the persona instead of the inner self. The key is you MUST IMMEDIATELY CONNECT with that inner self from first contact. You've gotta get to her to show how she REALLY is behind the walls she (and everyone in social situations around those we don't trust) is hiding her true personality behind.

I find that what happened with the 10 was great because she was wearing a colorful hoodie and I went into this spontaneous rap routine and called her something like "hiiiijiiii jiijii" and she was absolutely loving it, touching me constantly, giving me "the look," etc. Getting to this inner level brings about a very strong sexual energy + comfort simultaneously. It sends the message, "Yes, I am a man who knows what he wants, but I'm not desperate and I can see you for who you are, you don't have to hide your inner self from me." And during this whole process there is a big :) between both parties.
 
Yes, David Deangelo has it nailed. Great stuff he has. At the end of the day allot of this is confidence. I can go into a nightclub and pull virtually any woman I want. My good looks and atheletic body help but I have the James Bond cocky funny mysterious thing going on and I dont kiss their ass. Davids materials help you figure out what to 'tune' shall we say and understand whats going on.
 
REDZULU2003;300178 said:
Yes, David Deangelo has it nailed. Great stuff he has. At the end of the day allot of this is confidence. I can go into a nightclub and pull virtually any woman I want. My good looks and atheletic body help but I have the James Bond cocky funny mysterious thing going on and I dont kiss their ass. Davids materials help you figure out what to 'tune' shall we say and understand whats going on.
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The funny thing about this stuff is it doesn't make "logical" sense. I was sitting at a frat cook-out last night, busting on a few girls that were there, ended up getting four numbers last night, two of them very attractive. It's amazing how you can bust on a chick, not answer her directly, etc, and they LOVE it.

This girl came down the stairs at the cook-out, and there were seriously about 13 guys in the circle I was talking in (and nonverbally dominating). They ALL introduced themselves and answered them directly. I never said a word and quickly the girls moved my way and started asking me shit. I told them they had better know how to cook some hot dogs. She responded with, "Ugh, you're supposed to be cooking them for me." I just said, "Sister, if you can't cook a hotdog, you have a LOT to work on." Smiling and being cocky/funny the whole time. I always work on keeping that non-verbal TENSION that David DeAngelo talks about all the time. It's a sort of "James Bond" look as you say, Red. It's a very seductive type of look that women love to play with men. Funny thing all these guys were trying to qualify, qualify, qualify. I just disqualify myself, never answer directly (although sometimes I will just to be unpredictable), and kept the frame that I CONTROL REALITY. That girl ended up calling me at the end of the night wanting to come over to my place. She wasn't up to my standards (8+) so I told her I'd hang out with her tomorrow night.

I can't believe this shit actually works though. It really is amazing.

It seriously is 95% non-verbal though, at least. When I have that true INNER GAME I could say "blah blah blah" to a girl and have her all over me. It's when I don't have that stable frame of mind (I CREATE REALITY) that I don't have as good of a time with women.
 
I really can't wait to hear David DeAngelo's style. I guess I'll read that book while I wait for the torrent to finish downloading. Thanks again 10inch. Me and you are on the same road, just breaking up with our girlfriends, and learning to pick up more. The weird thing is the more I read about cocky funny and negging, I know its not supposed to make sense, but in reality it does. And when you think about the successful guys, natural or not, they all do it as if its an escalation from elementary school when we used to hit or tease the ones we liked.
 
longstretch;300238 said:
I really can't wait to hear David DeAngelo's style. I guess I'll read that book while I wait for the torrent to finish downloading. Thanks again 10inch. Me and you are on the same road, just breaking up with our girlfriends, and learning to pick up more. The weird thing is the more I read about cocky funny and negging, I know its not supposed to make sense, but in reality it does. And when you think about the successful guys, natural or not, they all do it as if its an escalation from elementary school when we used to hit or tease the ones we liked.
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Yes, we are in the same boat. You will LOVE his material. I could have had a threesome last night had I not been uncomfortable around that girl who I met at the frat cook-out two nights ago. She was quite insecure and slept with a ton of guys. Although the funny thing was my ex was raising my value like a mother fucker at the time time. She told her she had orgasmed from anal, had a white guy with a huge dick, etc. Later on that girl found out it was ME. Hahahaha. The only thing I did with both of them was make out at the same time, but I wouldn't touch that other girl with a ten foot pole. It turned out to be quite an interesting night.

The main thing is that everything just feels NATURAL now, as compared to the awkwardness of how everything used to be. I had some good success with MM, but I never had worked on any inner game so it was always being "canned" and "planned", while DYD stuff is just so smooth and natural you won't even be thinking about it sometimes and saying Penis EnlargementRFECT lines everytime.

For example, you'll start saying the perfect thing in the perfect situation. This girl was talking about how she ended up being drunk and passing out on some guy's bed (yes, wouldn't touch her with a ten foot pole). I just said in, in a humorous way, "Oh, did you beat you with a stick?" I did the motion along with it as well. I didn't even realize how good of a line it was, as I was originally thinking of it as a joke but turned out to have a huge sexual UNDERTONE (you'll master these). Both girls responded very favorably. The thing is that my communication with women is now ambiguous, rather than direct (like with men). Women talk in a code. They don't generally say something direct, they'll lead you on with a phrase that might mean one thing when you look at it directly, but mean another when you look at it another. You'll start talking with them like this, and it'll greatly build attraction.

As always, it's great to get status reports from the women themselves. Luckily this girl was a loud mouth and somewhat frank, so she told me, "You know, you came off as the standard frat-boy asshole type, but I could tell there was something...different about you. I can't quite figure you out." Yes, I can be somewhat pompous while jesting with women, yet I have the attitude of "Oh I'm so playing and you're loving it" (she was talking about the incident where I was saying she had better earn her keep and make me a hotdog). Also, I keep an air of mystery about myself, and I'm unpredictable in how I'll answer questions or doing things. This keeps the "I can't figure him out" game running through their heads. This is a combination of high status (makes them keep wanting to figure you out, the "prize") + unpredictability (keeps them on their toes and getting the emotional thrill of you being one of the "different ones") + sexual tension (this includes using ambiguous wording constantly, as well as having "the sexual posture" that you'll naturally start using).

Even if I'm not getting a chick (which trust me, you can't get every girl, not by a long shot, some girls, as David Deangelo says, just are too tight or something to enjoy flirting, or in a bad mood) I always want to stand out from the other guys. I think this alone really helps keeps girl interested, even if it's just at a friend or acquaintance level (which is good, you always want to be associated with beautiful women). No, you don't have to get all Mystery'd out to stand out. Just do it by not being like the other guys. All the other guys answer them directly.

"What is your major?" -girl
"Business with a minor in French." -typical guy

"What is your major?" -girl
"Well, I was doing professional sky diving, but now I'm doing waste management." -me

Always with that flirting, teasing aura that you're putting out.

Just be different than all the other guys out there, because most girls find it BORING. You'll pick up when to give them an honest answer and when to keep the mysterious stuff up. With many girls if you don't end up giving at least one honest answer they'll see you as "too difficult" and will give up; I've had it happen, although it was ridiculous how much I beat around the bush. Good thing I wasn't sexually interested in her.

Another thing, you can practice this on all women. Just with women you're not interested in, leave the sexual tension (body language) out of it.
 
I know man. I've been practicing with as many girls as I can. I work at a restaurant and most of my coworkers are women. Lately I've just been a confident badass or at least trying to set that frame while being cocky funny and its amazing how girls who would of never even given me a second thought started commenting on me being the funny crazy guy, in a good way, and starting to build attraction with them. I now know from the MM to stand out, not neccessarily with platform shoes and black nail polish but just to stand out from the ordinary guy. I mean with the name like Average Joe Bag of Donuts how good of a fuck can he be?

The weird thing is I'm usually the shy nice guy type but after a while I see myself doing things naturally and its really bringing out my personality as well as attracting the opposite sex. I feel great after doing this today at work. Nice girls like me, bitches respect me and a lot of girls are starting to want me. I'm about to go to a party where I only know 2 or 3 people and I plan on doing the whole cocky funny. I can't wait to have this down. I've gotten to the point where I want to have sex but have learned to be willing to risk not having it. This is something I've always needed to learn but never could because of a girlfriend. I can only see good things becoming of this...well besides being like you and wondering which girl to call, now thats a tough call.
 
Wow this is ausome I didnt know you guys were into this to... I just started looking into it about a month ago...
what are some good books about being a PUA??????
 
WantsMore9;300316 said:
Wow this is ausome I didnt know you guys were into this to... I just started looking into it about a month ago...
what are some good books about being a PUA??????
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Read the third post, I posted a link to one of his books. I'd recommend getting ALL of his [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/mosdvd.htm]DVD[/words] lecture series. And do support him (buy the thing) if it does help you, which it will. Just search on a torrent site for "David Deangelo."
 
longstretch;300315 said:
I know man. I've been practicing with as many girls as I can. I work at a restaurant and most of my coworkers are women. Lately I've just been a confident badass or at least trying to set that frame while being cocky funny and its amazing how girls who would of never even given me a second thought started commenting on me being the funny crazy guy, in a good way, and starting to build attraction with them. I now know from the MM to stand out, not neccessarily with platform shoes and black nail polish but just to stand out from the ordinary guy. I mean with the name like Average Joe Bag of Donuts how good of a fuck can he be?

The weird thing is I'm usually the shy nice guy type but after a while I see myself doing things naturally and its really bringing out my personality as well as attracting the opposite sex. I feel great after doing this today at work. Nice girls like me, bitches respect me and a lot of girls are starting to want me. I'm about to go to a party where I only know 2 or 3 people and I plan on doing the whole cocky funny. I can't wait to have this down. I've gotten to the point where I want to have sex but have learned to be willing to risk not having it. This is something I've always needed to learn but never could because of a girlfriend. I can only see good things becoming of this...well besides being like you and wondering which girl to call, now thats a tough call.
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Not only will you have too many girls to talk with at once, but you'll have too many friends in general to have time to share with. Convert some of the hot girls (but not the ones you're trying to truly have sex with) into friends. They'll raise your value and throw in a good word about you to other women.

It gets to the point where you have to actually watch yourself when you go to parties, as you'll have multiple girls there who have you on the "fuck radar", and there'll be a lot of jealousy for sure! Just be careful with this. If they end up calling you on being a player, NEVER LOSE FACE. Say something like, "I never called you a slut for sleeping with other guys." Don't even give them a chance to respond back from that, either. Of course there are infinite ways to respond to a girl calling you out on that, but just never lose your dominance. Fuck her, you don't need to put up with her bullshit. If she has a problem you'll dump her right there and pick up another girl, no biggie. If you hold that attitude, your body language will say everything for you. Keep working on it; you can always improve.
 
Yes allot of it is body language and the whole cocky funny thing. Dont allow woman to control you and be the MAN is important. I always say be a 'nice bastard' which is a cross between a nice guy who woman like but get bored with as they are predictable and kiss their ass and a jerk [bad boy] who treats them like shit and is that piece of adventure. So I'm that, I'm very unpredictable, aloof but cocky/funny and I'm different. Woman love this .. be mysterious and dont hit on them direct. I have tried the cold method ... just walk into a club and play it soooo cooool .. ignore all the woman but have that good confident body language, smile and chat to the guys but dont overdo this ... try and look like the alpha male or maybe you are this already, by this I mean the otherguys show respect to you. Woman see this and like it ... also they see you not eyeing them up and not giving a shit about them ... they are like 'my god hes different'

Its an easy game to play BUT I think the rules of david deangelo and co go out the windows largely when you want a relashionship with a girl or woman as its very different than as stability is a ket factor ... these tips he provides are for players and genaeral pickups and a shag a night crew.

Enjoy
 
REDZULU2003;300369 said:
Yes allot of it is body language and the whole cocky funny thing. Dont allow woman to control you and be the MAN is important. I always say be a 'nice bastard' which is a cross between a nice guy who woman like but get bored with as they are predictable and kiss their ass and a jerk [bad boy] who treats them like shit and is that piece of adventure. So I'm that, I'm very unpredictable, aloof but cocky/funny and I'm different. Woman love this .. be mysterious and dont hit on them direct. I have tried the cold method ... just walk into a club and play it soooo cooool .. ignore all the woman but have that good confident body language, smile and chat to the guys but dont overdo this ... try and look like the alpha male or maybe you are this already, by this I mean the otherguys show respect to you. Woman see this and like it ... also they see you not eyeing them up and not giving a shit about them ... they are like 'my god hes different'

Its an easy game to play BUT I think the rules of david deangelo and co go out the windows largely when you want a relashionship with a girl or woman as its very different than as stability is a ket factor ... these tips he provides are for players and genaeral pickups and a shag a night crew.

Enjoy
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Yeah, David's Dating series is geared towards more of the pickup, and he acknowledges that. However, he says to not lose that manly control, and to not get very emotional with a woman until you are in a pretty good ways into a relationship with her.
 
Hey fam, sorry Ithiel for stealing your saying but it rocks, I found this site www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/. Its like [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] minus the penis enlargement...and the adult entertainment...and bodybuilding. Actually its nothing like [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words] its just a PUA forum.
 
DYD is amazing when your first getting in to game. It really opens your eyes ! It got me confidant talkin to woman and being comfortable in my own skin witch i think is key to game. You can have all the best routines know all the techniques, peacocked out like a motha fucka . If your inna game is week and you dont truly believe you have something great to offer you wont get very far. Coving up your week inna game with all that fancy shit will get you some ass but in the long run your fuckin your self! Get your inna game down every thing else falls in to place!

The thing with DYD is you have to be careful with it . C+F is all about breaking rapport . If a girl is trying to gain rapport with and you keep fuckin up the rapport your get no where trust me. Iv had lots of girls attracted to me iv gone it to C+F mode n ive come off as a complete asshole. Calibration is key with C+F you cant be mr C+F all the time it gets boring for a girl constantly breaking the rapport . You get the girl by creating a deep emotional connection where you start hering shit like 'i feel like ive known you for ever'.

This is why i love juggler method no fake routines or 6 million different steps . Straight to the point natural game . A lil C+F with Juggler Method is the way to go. One thing i dont like about DYD it says never show interest. One thing with juggler method is you have to show interest . with SOIs it saves a lot of time.
 
I'm a big fan of C&F but find that it has a limited place... i like to use it as an opener and as negs but i don't like doing it the whole time as it's hard to build comfort with it. I'm more into the indirect game but the Juggler Method sounds interesting to me. Juggler is actually doing a seminar this coming weekend in my neck of the woods (SoCal). I'd like to check it out but i already have plans... i definitely want to look into it more.
 
I'm downloading Deangelo's Cocky Comedy series and I am watching his Deep Inner Game and I have his Double Your Dating book and other that I'm watching and reading right now. I haven't tried to actually pick up girls yet but I have noticed that I'm much more confident in general and I don't get as nervous talking to women anymore. I can see my future self as a ladies man. Deangelo has his shit together. I heard of Juggler in the Game. What's his method?
 
longstretch;301338 said:
I'm downloading Deangelo's Cocky Comedy series and I am watching his Deep Inner Game and I have his Double Your Dating book and other that I'm watching and reading right now. I haven't tried to actually pick up girls yet but I have noticed that I'm much more confident in general and I don't get as nervous talking to women anymore. I can see my future self as a ladies man. Deangelo has his shit together. I heard of Juggler in the Game. What's his method?
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I just got done watching the guest Tyler on his Sexual Communication Disc 3. The guy is an amazing guest, he REALLY has the art of pickup down. What I really love about David Deangelo is he's NOT a PUA and isn't afraid to say so. His quote was something like "I'm not really into the whole pickup game, it just isn't my scene." He really shows that it's OK to not just go out all the time looking to pick women up. It's really more about your overall life, in his opinion.

I'm almost done with this series, but I'd say if you want some really good insight watch Tyler on the third disc. I can't wait until school is over so I can finish up with a few other series that I haven't seen, namely Advanced Dating Techniques, On Being A Man, and Mastery Series (the one I want to watch the most). I'm going to be watching this shit daily, repeatedly, during the summer, really ingraining it in myself. Also, make sure to do his exercises! They're very powerful.

Longstretch, what you need to start working on is talking to girls, at least attractive ones, differently than you talk with others. Not so much words at first, but you need to send off a sexual energy to them. I was in the gym in the other day and saw a HB10 that I've known sparsely and flirted with from parties (has a boyfriend, but still gives me major IOIs, might hit up soon). We were talking about gym habits and whatnot, but the conversation (which with this topic usually just has a "dull feel" about it) had a very playful energy between both of us, and it very was sexual. Just the way I was standing, my eyes, how I "transferred" the energy from the look on my face (Dr. Paul talks about this in Deep Inner Game), the way she looked at me back, we were both just saying in our heads, "Ohhhhh, yeah." It is such a WONDERFUL feeling to be able to have this with women, especially beautiful ones that make all the guys go DAMN! (Yes, I am bragging a little). This might sound kind of odd, but it seems that the process, to me at least, is more fun than the result (sex), at least even with it.

I was at a party last weekend, although it was smaller and I wasn't in party mode (lots of tests coming up). What I was working on was just approaching groups of hot women, getting them lose and interested, etc. Turns out there was a HB8.5 from Texas A&M in town who was really interested in me. I ended up escalating but ended up going home before they were ready, as I had another girl wanting some sex, guaranteed. Looking back I should have tried to see where I could've taken it with that girl, but chose the guaranteed lay over her. You know a girl's interested when she says, "Wait, where are you going?" When you decide to leave a venue.

Remember, as David Deangelo says, "It's ALWAYS on."
 
sikdogg;300602 said:
I'm a big fan of C&F but find that it has a limited place... i like to use it as an opener and as negs but i don't like doing it the whole time as it's hard to build comfort with it. I'm more into the indirect game but the Juggler Method sounds interesting to me. Juggler is actually doing a seminar this coming weekend in my neck of the woods (SoCal). I'd like to check it out but i already have plans... i definitely want to look into it more.
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I don't think C&F is the problem when picking up women and in the C-stages (according the Mystery). It's just a wrong usage of it. I know for myself personally sometimes I can come off as too much of an ass using C&F comments, but that's on me. David Deangelo realizes you can't keep having the method of communicating all the time. He talks about this in his lectures when he speaks of a "fake" natural who just keeps Reaction Seeking for a particular response, which is defined as a misuse of the Cocky and Funny style.

The main thing for C&F for me is that it can be more difficult to calibrate. Personally, I feel that it's harder to get away with cockier shit (even though you show you're just busting their balls for fun) if you're a better looking guy, I guess because women expect it more, much like men expect bitchier attitudes from hotter women. I've been meaning to test out this Confident & Funny attitude, as one guy put it, rather than a Cocky & Funny attitude, just because I see sometimes I'll shoot myself out of the water with the C&F shit, especially with subtle negs.

From what I see on discussion forums, negs are used too much. Either that or I can't get away with using too many. I'd say I can use one, two at the MAX, and that's with the hot girls at a party.

Negs and C&F are two different things, don't forget. Negs are a way, essentially, to lower her self value, thus bringing her "down" to your level, or below. C&F is a way to raise your social value, while displaying a high self value at the same time (hence the inner game stuff). The goal of C&F isn't to lower her self value; it doesn't affect her value at all.

As for negs, if I personally use one on a HB8 or lower, I'll pretty much have blown my chances. Girls are expecting certain guys to fit the "asshole" category, and they will be fast to throw you in there if you give them ANY sort of reason to do so. A good rule of thumb is to throw a neg if she's showing resistance in the form of a bitch shield, in which you should be engaged in conversation already. However, if she's all sweet and definitely attracted to you already, no need to throw one. That was a big problem of mine, I'd throw negs from the start of a conversation, even though she was already attracted to me. Yes, with the right body language (good looks, build, and shape help) and social proof, you CAN be in A3 (she's attracted and tries to attract you) from the start of the conversation.

Sometimes it's just fun to throw a neg out when you know a chick isn't interested. Just remember, if you choose to do an asshole (some would say badboy) type of gesture, you have to stay congruent with it (don't be saying, "I was just kidding," etc). This girl at a party was showing some interest, but very little. From reading her body language it was like she was already in a relationship or had good boy friends. She wouldn't get close to me, ever, while dancing. I ended up getting a little frustrated and asked, "Are you sexually frustrated?" She shook her head, no. "Oh, so you get a lot of dick, huh, player?" She looked somewhat embarrased (notice I DIDN'T criticize her, I merely switched roles and made it sound like what a girl would say to a guy, keeping the C&F frame). She looked so embarrased so I simply said, "Don't be ashamed of it. Damn, girls need to learn how to be more confident." I knew by the look on her face that I had blown myself out. But honestly, I DIDN'T FUCKING CARE. Seriously. I had figured, by her somewhat cold body language, that there was some other person who she was thinking of, and I simply used that opportunity to try some shit out. I took note of the response I got, and I will probably not use that ever again. If she was upset, tough for her. I didn't let that frame go, even though she became disturbed.

I've been working on not keeping the badboy frame, mostly by not getting drunk (which generally makes me more cocky and aggressive).
 
10inchadvantage;301345 said:
I don't think C&F is the problem when picking up women and in the C-stages (according the Mystery). It's just a wrong usage of it. I know for myself personally sometimes I can come off as too much of an ass using C&F comments, but that's on me. David Deangelo realizes you can't keep having the method of communicating all the time. He talks about this in his lectures when he speaks of a "fake" natural who just keeps Reaction Seeking for a particular response, which is defined as a misuse of the Cocky and Funny style.
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This has been my experience also... especially since i come off as abadboy from the get go. I always felt like i was trying too hard or fake when trying to use C&F all the time. Like i said before, i like to open and go into A2 and A3 using C&F but back off once in comfort.

The main thing for C&F for me is that it can be more difficult to calibrate. Personally, I feel that it's harder to get away with cockier shit (even though you show you're just busting their balls for fun) if you're a better looking guy, I guess because women expect it more, much like men expect bitchier attitudes from hotter women. I've been meaning to test out this Confident & Funny attitude, as one guy put it, rather than a Cocky & Funny attitude, just because I see sometimes I'll shoot myself out of the water with the C&F shit, especially with subtle negs.
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I agree with this and i've learned that how well it works really depends on my facial gestures. Because i can come off as a badboy and can be intimidating i have to make sure i'm clear that what i'm saying isn't taken out of context. I'm actually goin to hang out with a trainer from a local lair... he's going to help me with my game and tell me what he thinks i need to work on. I'm really looking forward to this...

From what I see on discussion forums, negs are used too much. Either that or I can't get away with using too many. I'd say I can use one, two at the MAX, and that's with the hot girls at a party.
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That's what i also read but i don't really use negs that much... only when i get some resistance from my target.

Negs and C&F are two different things, don't forget. Negs are a way, essentially, to lower her self value, thus bringing her "down" to your level, or below. C&F is a way to raise your social value, while displaying a high self value at the same time (hence the inner game stuff). The goal of C&F isn't to lower her self value; it doesn't affect her value at all.
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I kinda agree/disagree with you on this... anytime you lower her self value you effectively raise yours. If you neg your target in a group setting, you also raise your social value within that group. Negs are a tricky thing and it's all about how you frame the neg.

As for negs, if I personally use one on a HB8 or lower, I'll pretty much have blown my chances. Girls are expecting certain guys to fit the "asshole" category, and they will be fast to throw you in there if you give them ANY sort of reason to do so. A good rule of thumb is to throw a neg if she's showing resistance in the form of a bitch shield, in which you should be engaged in conversation already. However, if she's all sweet and definitely attracted to you already, no need to throw one. That was a big problem of mine, I'd throw negs from the start of a conversation, even though she was already attracted to me. Yes, with the right body language (good looks, build, and shape help) and social proof, you CAN be in A3 (she's attracted and tries to attract you) from the start of the conversation.
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I agree and i think you make a good point... you should only neg when she's showing resistance. I think most guy will automatically neg if a chick is an HB8 or higher without ever knowing what her frame is. If you go in with a canned opener and she's receptive, there's no need to neg. Now if during your conversation she starts to take control or starts to test you then you can neg, roll off to punish her, and then pull her back in and try again. Also, when you neg you can't sit there and wait for a response... it has to be such that you throw a neg and immediately continue with the conversation as if it was just another passing remark. She will get it and reframe while you continue holding your frame.

Sometimes it's just fun to throw a neg out when you know a chick isn't interested. Just remember, if you choose to do an asshole (some would say badboy) type of gesture, you have to stay congruent with it (don't be saying, "I was just kidding," etc). This girl at a party was showing some interest, but very little. From reading her body language it was like she was already in a relationship or had good boy friends. She wouldn't get close to me, ever, while dancing. I ended up getting a little frustrated and asked, "Are you sexually frustrated?" She shook her head, no. "Oh, so you get a lot of dick, huh, player?" She looked somewhat embarrased (notice I DIDN'T criticize her, I merely switched roles and made it sound like what a girl would say to a guy, keeping the C&F frame). She looked so embarrased so I simply said, "Don't be ashamed of it. Damn, girls need to learn how to be more confident." I knew by the look on her face that I had blown myself out. But honestly, I DIDN'T FUCKING CARE. Seriously. I had figured, by her somewhat cold body language, that there was some other person who she was thinking of, and I simply used that opportunity to try some shit out. I took note of the response I got, and I will probably not use that ever again. If she was upset, tough for her. I didn't let that frame go, even though she became disturbed.

I've been working on not keeping the badboy frame, mostly by not getting drunk (which generally makes me more cocky and aggressive).
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That is key right there... never appologize for what you say and never take it back. The minute you do that you DLV yourself. Good stuff bro... looks like you're really making progress with this part of your life.
 
Torrents are the shit. I wish I was clued on to these earlier and the dating community, but at least I know now. I've finished reading DYD and listening to his Deep Inner Game series. I'm also going through his cocky comedy, next will be his advanced & mastery programs, and then sexual communications. I'm also listening to Brad P's Underground Seminar which has some very good material in it. Damn there are torrents for almost anything. I have some torrents downloaded for card tricks, magic, handwriting analysis, dancing, bodybuilding books, and how to detect lying.

By the end of this summer I should have a couple of tricks under my belt. I don't smoke weed hardly at all anymore and my time playing video games has gone down too, well until GTA IV. Point is I'm finally able to learn all the things I've always wanted to learn. I'm becoming a lot better with interacting with women, haven't really practiced approaching yet, but at least now I can hold a conversation with them and get them attracted to me. I recommend doing these things for everyone. I'm winning the war on social shyness after losing for about a decade.

I start my nursing program in the fall. I'll need to completely quite smoking weed and buckle down with school. But on the plus side my chances for interacting with hot women (+), even hot asian women (+++), will increase and at least now I'll have a little bit of a strategy.
 
I really like Stephane's stuff from ideagasms. I tried mystery but i felt like i was just duping everybody. Stephanes' is more about being honest with yourself first.
 
I'm downloading a torrent for the Blueprint Decoded [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/mosdvd.htm]DVD[/words], Blueprint Telesiminar CD, Transformation Telesiminar, and Blueprint Decoded slides. Can't wait to delve into this. I think the best route for me is just to immerse myself in different kinds of game and make up my own according to what works best with my personality. I'm currently watching DD's DyD videos. I've seen his Deep Inner Game and Cocky Comedy Serries. I've noticed that its almost easy for me to attract girls now.

I've been socially shy since 8th grade and though I'm still a little shy I have noticed my character is a lot stronger. To think this transformation would of never happened if I wouldn't have broken up with my girlfriend. I still haven't practiced approaching but I'm pretty good at gaining attraction after the ice is broken. Things I need to work on is approaching, kino, and escalating things to the next level. I can always feel when I need too I just have to swallow some fear and grow some balls. I have a lot to work on my inner game but things are starting to come around. Can't wait till I'm the guy I want to become.

I went out last night with a friend. It was his 21st and he brought a natural with him. It was really cool just to watch him. He's always laid back, has a silver tongue, and always gets the girls all over him. I want that to be me in a couple of years.
 
longstretch;306581 said:
I'm downloading a torrent for the Blueprint Decoded [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/mosdvd.htm]DVD[/words], Blueprint Telesiminar CD, Transformation Telesiminar, and Blueprint Decoded slides. Can't wait to delve into this. I think the best route for me is just to immerse myself in different kinds of game and make up my own according to what works best with my personality. I'm currently watching DD's DyD videos. I've seen his Deep Inner Game and Cocky Comedy Serries. I've noticed that its almost easy for me to attract girls now.

I've been socially shy since 8th grade and though I'm still a little shy I have noticed my character is a lot stronger. To think this transformation would of never happened if I wouldn't have broken up with my girlfriend. I still haven't practiced approaching but I'm pretty good at gaining attraction after the ice is broken. Things I need to work on is approaching, kino, and escalating things to the next level. I can always feel when I need too I just have to swallow some fear and grow some balls. I have a lot to work on my inner game but things are starting to come around. Can't wait till I'm the guy I want to become.

I went out last night with a friend. It was his 21st and he brought a natural with him. It was really cool just to watch him. He's always laid back, has a silver tongue, and always gets the girls all over him. I want that to be me in a couple of years.
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When you develop that "natural" ability it's amazing. You'll have no shortage of opportunities.
 
I got you to thank for showing me the awesomeness of torrents. I downloaded eye q to increase my reading speed. So I can finish studying faster, read dating and other books faster, and get out in the real world faster. I start nursing school in the fall and I'm sure I'm going to be slammed 24/7 but on the bright side I'll be surrounded by girls (especially asians) and will need to meet up with them to "study". hehehe. This is gonna be fun. I can't wait till I don't even think about these things that its that natural.
 
longstretch;306592 said:
I got you to thank for showing me the awesomeness of torrents. I downloaded eye q to increase my reading speed. So I can finish studying faster, read dating and other books faster, and get out in the real world faster. I start nursing school in the fall and I'm sure I'm going to be slammed 24/7 but on the bright side I'll be surrounded by girls (especially asians) and will need to meet up with them to "study". hehehe. This is gonna be fun. I can't wait till I don't even think about these things that its that natural.
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The thing is the past few weeks I haven't noticed that I've been anticipating an answer from a girl. This is a really different way to interact when you're that "in the moment," that you're not even worried about any outcome, you're just FLOWING. The sense you put off will make other people realize how powerful you are. People project how dominant/powerful/"kingly" they are, and people either consciously or unconsciously know how to react to that. It's funny to see when I go to the gym I can just look at whomever I want and I'm so unbelievably calm. People generally dart their eyes and act physically suBathmateissive. You'll notice how COMFORTABLE you feel anywhere. I feel like generally at home just about anywhere. This attracts so many women naturally. All you have to do is show interest, and make sure it's a sexual vibe. Do not start expecting outcomes though. Be conscious of what stage the interaction is at, know how to lead to each higher stage. Talk deeper and slower. Stand good.
 
Longstretch, another three things I'd like to discuss.

1. Your symbol. David Deangelo talks of this in his Inner Game series. It is an item to remind you of your own intrinsic status and self-worth. Mine personally is a crown. I'd describe my attitude as that of a benevolent, noble king. Bringing this up always grounds me if I'm having any distractions.

2. Realization of pure freedom. I realized the other night that, in reality, there are no laws. People are so unconscious of this. Just realizing this makes me feel so much power in my actions. Like I can bend reality to be how I am viewing it, because nothing is set in stone. This GREATLY strengthened my "frame." THIS IS CRITICAL. It's hard to explain, but once you do you will probably have the strongest frame out of just about anyone you know. Seriously, most people have been treating me (through non-verbal body language and eye cues) (more like giving me) like I'm a head of a Fortune 500 corporation. It's amazing to see how people react through this lens. Actually, it's more like people are giving (could be called trusting, but that's on a higher plane than giving) you their leadership, which everyone has the ability to claim for themselves or whomever they want.

In essense, sure there are laws, but I'm talking more about human animal laws. Laws that everyone knows (either consciously or unconsciously), aren't written down, and allows just about anything to happen. We are VERY animalistic, and those who fully realize this can take advantage of the situation and have nature on their side, which is much stronger than any sort of flimsy piece of paper, which is getting changed all the time (note that we do have natural laws against murder/fighting, as it has been with humans since the dawn of time).

3. This sort of ties along with the "pure freedom" explanation that I just explained. But, and this probably varies based on personality, but I am NOT holding an egotistical slant when I interact in public. This also helps me to not pre-judge peoples' mental/emotional being (obviously we pre-judge bodily things such as wanting to talk with hot chicks over average chicks, etc), which keeps my possibilities unlimited. It seems that some alpha males are egotistical or more "top heavy in Intuition, rather than Social Harmony", following Dr. Drew's advise on the Inner Game Series. These guys get the rep of "bad boys" often. This works for them because: 1. There are plenty of emotionally screwed up women who will give them their leadership power and thus become attracted, or vise versa, (as in attraction -> giving up leadership from girls' view) kind of hard to tell at this point. 2. They are so entrenched in their reality (they integrate concept #2) that they display ALL THE SUBTLE THINGS WOMEN WANT AND DROOL OVER! It is important to realize that balance between Intuition (your own wants) and Social Harmony (respecting the surrounding human members' collective wants) is ideal, not only in my opinion but actually how the best way to have the most opportunities in life. Dr. Paul also added in two concepts on to "left and right" of the circle (if intuition/social harmony are top/bottom), noted as education on left and experience on right. The ideal is to be in the very center of the circle, balancing both polarities equally. This is where, as he claims, the most noble men of humanity have been revered (The Buddha, Leonardo DiVinci, etc).

Too much Intuition = too self-absorbed
Too much Social Harmony = too much of a wussy

Too much Education = too stagnant/unchanging/idealistic, not able to fully understand
Too much Experience = too much variability, not enough direction, not able to apply learned concepts and grow

Some Points:
By the way, I can't stand the connotation "giving up leadership" as if it implies some sort negative suBathmateission. If you never give up your leadership, you'll be regarded as an obnoxious control freak. Being an alpha includes that you know how and when to give up certain types of leadership (there are several).

I need to write more. Perhaps DLD wouldn't mind adding a few chapters that I write for the ever-elusive Alpha Blade, eh? ;)
 
spinner2;301397 said:
Talking is completely overrated in picking up girls.
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one of the most profound statements, this is when you realize how much confidence and listening come into play...
 
"The thing is that my communication with women is now ambiguous, rather than direct (like with men). Women talk in a code. They don't generally say something direct, they'll lead you on with a phrase that might mean one thing when you look at it directly, but mean another when you look at it another. You'll start talking with them like this, and it'll greatly build attraction."

One woman teaches brutal simple punning like this: "A cell phone is a dick".

Another is really subtle and might be unconsciously reacting to a double entendre language that I am speaking and she reacts to. I think she's unconscious of the puns so part of that is I must be pretty subtle and "cell phone (as a dick) up your" like the first one.

DLD system based on one night at a club in Miami is "listen". (suddenly it all came together but he had worked)

One time my friend brought a hoe to the table and she talked real shit I looked out the window. She responded. It wasn't even a game, well, ok, maybe a little bit arbitrary choice and a plan that worked and then I just kept doing it. I'll have the wheel reinvented in 100 years or just check the deangelo stuff.
 
To be honest the blue print decoded is one of the worse pua products, it makes you self conscious, makes you over analyse everything, very bad for your "game". If u guys want honest reviews about PUA products go to www.puahate.com, most of their old threads are gold, most of their new ones are trolls....
 
Good info in this and thanks FDJ1990 for the link! That gives us another side to view things from and yes I do belive that most of these PUA are full of shit and make this whole thing so over complicated its beyond a joke, it really is. Lets be 100% honest here, many of these guys arent exactly showering themselves in what they are claiming works so well are they? i.e tons of sexy women, much of it is shallow and they ASSUME from genralisations that all women are the exact same in how they men, completely forgetting and leaving out vital factors such as the persons ethnic origin as that has influence in how women look upon men from different parts of the globe. MOST of the stuff on the net is ASSUMED to be more for Western/ised women as its from western men who are putting all the eggs into one basket.

This whole dominance, control, alpha male stuff that doesn't need a scientist to teach you about or all the long winded shit they preach about. Something else is much of the PUA material is mainly for simply picking up for sex or a casual liasion. Relashioships imho you cant write a book or guide for that as its sacred to the people involved in that relashionship. The PUA write for the guy going to clubs and pubs and base that experience that the women prowling these joints want a man with X Y and Z.

Take pieces from these 'gurus' and allow it to help you if it does, but learn yourself and just study the ladies when your out. That for me was the best way.
 
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