The Long Game: Learning with Longstretch, Key Principles to Make Sustained Growth

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I'll preface this with not everything mentioned here will be applicable to newbies and many things I'll discuss will go beyond this thread. However some of the things will be applicable to newbies and veterans alike. Personal research, thought and application will be warranted.

This thread will start and evolve. I will first seek to lay out some principles that I have found to provide sustained growth. I will then in as layman's terms as I can attempt, provide some of the science behind the principles. Continuous growth until end goal is reached is ultimately all our goals but many stall after making initial gains and keep sputtering along with little to no progress. The response to this stall, especially on this forum in particular, is well wrong.

I fully expect for many here to dismiss some if not all these principles. Especially those set in their ways. Revolutions aren't accomplished in a day. I also expect with enough interest and time the majority will come around, especially when results... well results speak for themselves.

I don't claim to have all the answers. Many things discussed here you can see evolving in my own progress report, especially with my comeback this year. However I am gaining consistently and my hope is to bring those results for other souls. Currently I am gaining 0.1 cm per week during my campaign, which is as fast as I could probably hope for being that I've done PE for 15 years.

Again this will be a evolving thread as there is too much to discuss in one post. Much that will be discussed I have recently talked about in my log and in other threads.

Principles
1.) Decondition Breaks: I put this at top of the list for a reason. The other forums have accepted decon breaks as a tool but this site in particular seems to resist them. Not surprisingly, to me at least, there are more and more cases of gains stalling here. My first post after this one will go in on decon breaks and offer suggestions. Straight up everyone should have scheduled decon breaks in their routine if they want to have sustained growth.

2.) Using BPSFL as a guide for their routine. BPSFL can be a guide on BPEL gains. You can also use them to determine the effectiveness of your routine. On this principle I will discuss heavy on accurate measurements, basics of the stress-strain curve and how that relates to connective tissue and the penis as a whole and even how you can use these measurements as a guide for when you need a decon break.

3.) Therapeutic heat: ideal heat should be 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C). 45°C and up causes tissue death, below this and the connective tissue will not behave like we want it to in the stretch. I don't mean warm up either. I don't warm up. This heat is a tool only to be used under a tensile load. A natural cool down (no ice) is advised after heat and this as well will be under tension.

These principles can be used to adjust any routine. I am now making great gains using "light" loads and the majority of my routine is right at an hour. More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch.
 
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Yay! I like healthy discussions and we can all learn plus challenge paradigms!

1) On the Decon...You did not place a standard there. What have you found work for you? I have used a month off decon break...I have also done a week off in my PE history.

2) I wholeheartedly agree with the BPSFL method. This eliminates the frustration of trying to get decent EQ to measure without resorting to adult entertainment.

3) Interesting take...can the heat be used during pumping or pumping breaks? I used 160F to warm up to make the tissues pliable on training days and I use 160F on my off days. Based on your statement and standard, are you suggesting that I am killing off tissue?
 
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1.) Deconditioning Breaks
What comes after a period of intense exercise? How do we grow in the gym? It's an analogy but not a perfect one. The gym damages and stresses muscle fibers and its not until we rest that the body rebuilds itself. Now too intense training will lead to poor performance and then overtraining hence the dawn of daily undulating periodization and other modalities to keep pushing the boundaries.

Now if we cause our penis to toughen up that means we can no longer stretch it the same length with the same weight or will need longer time under tension. A penis can grow so tough it can resist over 100 lbs and not break, nor give gains. Now the toughening process cannot be avoided but many PE practitioners unknowingly do things to hasten this process.

Now at some point I might list the studies of rat tail tendons being stretched and rabbit's mcl tendons being stretched in vivo (performed in a living organism) and stretching of hamstrings, etc and how these items relate to stretching the penis, however, it might be beyond this thread and to keep my thoughts simplified I will post the following link on soft tissue healing.

Soft Tissue Repair

And as mentioned here

What a decon break does is allow the body to heal. It'll lay down a patchwork of fibroblasts and extracellular matrix and if done regularly as part of your routine, I believe allow proliferation of the tissue, i.e growth! Without a decon the toughening process continues and the fibrils produced by existing fibroblasts converge and continue to resist the change. Our body loves its homeostasis.

There is evidence that if stretching is ballistic in nature or reaches a certain stress level the body tries to mainly strengthen penis to further resist stress. This is why stretches don't need to be too aggressive or for hangers don't hang for weight hang for gains.

For now the very basic concept is this. A decondition break works as reset for the body. Those thickened fibrils get trimmed some. Proliferation ideally occurs so there are more cells where you want them for when you come back. And main take away is when you come back you can make quicker gains at a much reduced workload than when you stopped.

What does this mean. Well instead of spinning your wheels, upping workloads and time of your routine ad infinitum... you can just stop for a period of time and when you come back make cheap and easy gains!!! Get those cheap and easy gains, when they start to diminish or downright stall (proposed between 12 days and 60 days) take a decon and come back for more cheap and easy gains.

What?!!! You're telling me to grow I sometimes have to stop. You're damn right that's what I'm saying.

My History with Decons
You long timers think back on your career. I'll tell you about mine. I stalled after the 1st 12 months and gaining 0.5 inch. Practiced manual PE RELIGIOUSLY FOR 2 FUCKING YEARS with 0 gains. What's the definition of insanity again? I took 3 months off and started vacuum hanging and gained 1 inch in 6 months with light weights though a big time investment. Still didn't have a clue. Started and stopped so many times I lost count. 1 thing is clear I made my best and quickest gains after a decon. I just reached inch #3 after taking 18 to 20 months off though unplanned I'm making great progress. DLD before coming up with SRT took 2 months off. If you go looking you'll find this truth with many many others.

Are there some that can keep making great gains just upping intensity and time, you bet. Arnold was already a beast at 16 years old before steroid use. Genetics can only go so far. This concept will work for everyone because it's backed by science and how the body works.

Practical Recommendations
Now how to make this practical. As noted in link I posted it can take up to a year for connective tissue to fully heal. 3 months to be mostly healed. However we're not likely reaching that kind of injury. The length of decon is proportional to intensity of routine, length of time PEing with no break and time stalled. You up those variable expect to up the decon break.

So if you've been stalled for 6 months let's say, or you've never taken a decon or you're hanging over 20 lbs, or you don't think you can increase your time investment and are going balls to the walls each routine but not seeing results; take at least 3 months off.

When you come back to it keep those cheap and easy gains in mind. Just enough force to elicit a response, without unneeded toughening. Cheap and easy. Take accurate measurements preferably in cm. After a month or 2 from now on take at least a ninth off. If everyone did this we would have more data on what the best length of a decon could be, but these recommendations are the basics and work.

ADS Use
Now some will still ADS while on decon and I suggest to experiment. ADS is light load not looking to cause further elongation. ADS could be counterproductive because you are keeping those fibrils aligned against the strain. If you don't potentially the patchwork made during decon will be disorganized and when coming back from decon it will resist less and these can then be recruited for further elongation. I and others have weaned off ADS with results though so experiment. A wean might look like the first week you ADS 8 hours/day. 2nd week 4 hours/day. 3rd week 1 hour a day and last week nothing. My next decon I will not use any ADS whatsoever.

Remember you want your gains to be the opposite of your lovers: Cheap and Easy
More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch
 
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Haursen said:
3) Interesting take...can the heat be used during pumping or pumping breaks? I used 160F to warm up to make the tissues pliable on training days and I use 160F on my off days. Based on your statement and standard, are you suggesting that I am killing off tissue?
Click to expand...
How do you know the temperature is this high because I think you would burn the skin within minutes if not seconds at that temperature. Hot water heaters tap out at 120°F and that's high enough to burn in 5 minutes

And I promise guys these concepts actually tie into each other.
 
longstretch said:
How do you know the temperature is this high because I think you would burn the skin within minutes if not seconds at that temperature. Hot water heaters tap out at 120°F and that's high enough to burn in 5 minutes
Click to expand...

I have a Cara Heating Pad with Select Heat. It states 160 F is the highest. I use moist heat. My penis skin doesn't burn though. I do feel the heat. Maybe I'm a mutant.
 
Ok so the pad gets that high but it's doubtful that is getting absorbed into your penis, in other words doubt your penis is getting close to that high. I think you're okay if not getting burned. I typically use ultrasound, IR and or rice sock and it'll feel like a deep heat. Shouldn't burn but at times does feel a little uncomfortable. Heat will be discussed later in depth. Thanks for the discussion.
 
I don't feel valid to say much. ;) However I do find @longstretch 's posts about the decon breaks interesting. And I personally feel I've had those certain kind of reactions! I'm far away from my goal but I've had breaks here and there and noticed that after certain breaks the gains just seem to set easier.

In the strain of that I think that it is also about giving the body the time to rest. It's not like your muscles grow instantly at the gym, it's the rest time that plays a big role! Maybe not the best analogy, but I do feel that some men might be going too fast at times.
 
I applaud you sir, for creating this thread. I can hear the squeaking and creaking of gears in unison.

I have never been one to take rest days, or deconditioning breaks unless forced. I rest in-between sessions.

It is IMPORTANT IMO to up the ante in intensity, but only with spikes. Like stated many many times, your body will toughen, much like the branch or stalk of a plant, under extended/prolonged stress. I incorporate INTENSE stretching, as well as any manual work really, but I will only do this to "shock" my body.

We are ALL DIFFERENT, but we also share many similarities. What works great for me at this point in my journey may not be wholey beneficial for another, at the point they are at.

Seriously, @longstretch THANK YOU for making this thread.

Blessings. ...
 
TuffDong said:
I applaud you sir, for creating this thread. I can hear the squeaking and creaking of gears in unison.

I have never been one to take rest days, or deconditioning breaks unless forced. I rest in-between sessions.

It is IMPORTANT IMO to up the ante in intensity, but only with spikes. Like stated many many times, your body will toughen, much like the branch or stalk of a plant, under extended/prolonged stress. I incorporate INTENSE stretching, as well as any manual work really, but I will only do this to "shock" my body.

We are ALL DIFFERENT, but we also share many similarities. What works great for me at this point in my journey may not be wholey beneficial for another, at the point they are at.

Seriously, @longstretch THANK YOU for making this thread.

Blessings. ...
Click to expand...

Thanks for that!
 
2.) BPSFL Focused Routine: Part A, Accurate and Consistent Measurements
The importance of personal accurate measurements cannot be overstated. These are not to impress lovers or strangers over the internet. These are for you, though if you share them in your log it could provide data to future PErs on what might work for them. BPEL gains should still be tracked as well as girth measurements but BPSFL can be taken at any time without erection. A gain in BPSFL usually precedes a gain in BPEL. Also as I'll discuss later on about the stress-strain curve of connective tissue, BPSFL can be used to track how effective your current daily routine is in terms of possible length gains. Using these tracking methods we can also track any diminishing results and either make adjustments to routine or take a decon break.

What it'll tell me when to take a decon? I believe so and has been a factor in my recent routines and others!!!

Hip angle and perspective can effect the measurement the user sees. I personally stand with neutral hips and head in same position. In seated position I can get bigger measurements just by varying hip angle, this also causes wide fluctuations. The important thing is consistency without "cheating". You want to measure the same way each time, again leave ego at the door and think like a scientist. This is your lab and your result have huge implications.

Another thing I'd recommend, thinking like a scientist, is to measure in cm or mm. Every inch is 2.54 cm. That means when you measure in cm you can more accurately read each notch in the ruler. Once you get used to it, it's really easy to convert back to freedom units, just divide the number by 2.54. No more pesky fractions haha.

As I'll discuss in Part B, I recommend everyone to start measuring pre and post routine. As seen in my own thread I'll many times measure between different exercises to better gauge what exactly I'm getting out of each exercise.... with the understanding that the first exercise, hang set or few stretches will be uncrimping the tangled up connective tissue fibrils. That means that first set will likely be what gives you the biggest TEMPORARY gain in BPSFL as you pull your penile tissue out of the toe region and into the knee region of the stress- strain curve. Point being if everyone starts measuring these points they'll be able to predict if they need to do more, they are doing enough or even if they could have done way less and got the same results!!!

You're measurements and the accurate interpretation of them will be key. Your penis will tell you exactly what it needs to grow! Keep in mind even pushing thre boundaries the rate of growth is naturally limited but with enough time your goals can be achieved.

More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch
giphy.gif

Edit 01/10/2020
In addition to taking regular BPSFL I now recommend to measure behind the coronal ridge when tracking measurements and calculating strain. I do this by pinching head and pulling straight out.

This way takes out many inaccuracies that can happen when fluid buildup of the glans occurs. I use a vac mod to attach the LG hanger to an X4 Labs extender for half an hour, ratcheting up intensity every 5 min. Then I hang with the LG hanger and finally do manual fulcrum stretches using a Bib hardcore and the power assist . Needless to say with the right intensity fluid buildup does occur and can vary greatly from day to day.

By measuring the coronal ridge it takes away the possibility of having over inflated strain (to be discussed further in thread) measuring an area that is unlikely to experience fluid buildup, unlike the glans itself.
 
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One of the biggest mistakes men make when they start to train is faulty measurements or no measurements at all. It is vital to take perfect measurements every time from the same exact location. If you do not do this you’re never going to know if you really gained size or not. Follow the measuring guide and you’ll be all set. Sometimes men don’t want to measure for self fear but don’t let that scare you! You have come here to get larger and that’s exactly what’s going to happen so do not fear measuring as it is the only way for us to determine the gains we make.
 
longstretch said:
I'll preface this with not everything mentioned here will be applicable to newbies and many things I'll discuss will go beyond this thread. However some of the things will be applicable to newbies and veterans alike. Personal research, thought and application will be warranted.

This thread will start and evolve. I will first seek to lay out some principles that I have found to provide sustained growth. I will then in as layman's terms as I can attempt, provide some of the science behind the principles. Continuous growth until end goal is reached is ultimately all our goals but many stall after making initial gains and keep sputtering along with little to no progress. The response to this stall, especially on this forum in particular, is well wrong.

I fully expect for many here to dismiss some if not all these principles. Especially those set in their ways. Revolutions aren't accomplished in a day. I also expect with enough interest and time the majority will come around, especially when results... well results speak for themselves.

I don't claim to have all the answers. Many things discussed here you can see evolving in my own progress report, especially with my comeback this year. However I am gaining consistently and my hope is to bring those results for other souls. Currently I am gaining 0.1 cm per week during my campaign, which is as fast as I could probably hope for being that I've done PE for 15 years.

Again this will be a evolving thread as there is too much to discuss in one post. Much that will be discussed I have recently talked about in my log and in other threads.

Principles
1.) Decondition Breaks: I put this at top of the list for a reason. The other forums have accepted decon breaks as a tool but this site in particular seems to resist them. Not surprisingly, to me at least, there are more and more cases of gains stalling here. My first post after this one will go in on decon breaks and offer suggestions. Straight up everyone should have scheduled decon breaks in their routine if they want to have sustained growth.

2.) Using BPSFL as a guide for their routine. BPSFL can be a guide on BPEL gains. You can also use them to determine the effectiveness of your routine. On this principle I will discuss heavy on accurate measurements, basics of the stress-strain curve and how that relates to connective tissue and the penis as a whole and even how you can use these measurements as a guide for when you need a decon break.

3.) Therapeutic heat: ideal heat should be 40 to 43°C (104-109.4°F). 45°C and up causes tissue death, below this and the connective tissue will not behave like we want it to in the stretch. I don't mean warm up either. I don't warm up. This heat is a tool only to be used under a tensile load. A natural cool down (no ice) is advised after heat and this as well will be under tension.

These principles can be used to adjust any routine. I am now making great gains using "light" loads and the majority of my routine is right at an hour. More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch.
Click to expand...

Regarding the therapeutic heat,

Is it beneficial to have a red IR lamp constantly shining at your dick and balls? Like the MOSRed? I don’t know if the MOSRed lamp can be adjusted to give 40-43 degrees Celsius of heat...

What about cooking your balls during the length sessions? I hang with the SiliStretcher2 and I hang 4 hours per day on average, does that mean I have to put heat on my shaft for 4 hours straight from an IR lamp/ MOSRed lamp source?

Too much heat lowers sperm production and testosterone levels, it kills your sperm. I used to do my newbie stretching routine while being heated by an IR lamp and it was a nice feeling to stretch with the heat but sometimes it got too hot and burnt myself. Also I was worried about cooking my testicles...
 
DutchAthletic92 said:
Regarding the therapeutic heat,

Is it beneficial to have a red IR lamp constantly shining at your dick and balls? Like the MOSRed? I don’t know if the MOSRed lamp can be adjusted to give 40-43 degrees Celsius of heat...

What about cooking your balls during the length sessions? I hang with the SiliStretcher2 and I hang 4 hours per day on average, does that mean I have to put heat on my shaft for 4 hours straight from an IR lamp/ MOSRed lamp source?

Too much heat lowers sperm production and testosterone levels, it kills your sperm. I used to do my newbie stretching routine while being heated by an IR lamp and it was a nice feeling to stretch with the heat but sometimes it got too hot and burnt myself. Also I was worried about cooking my testicles...
Click to expand...
Have you considered just putting rice into a sock and tying up the end. Then, heat in microwave to desired temperature (you'll have to experiment a little.) Then, wrap that around your dick while hanging. You can place it so that it's just above the silistretcher but not touching your balls, hence no worries about heating them up, sperm and Test levels etc. You can hold it in place with a strap or even elastic bands. Reheat as needed. Should retain it's heat for maybe 10-15 minutes. And you're not stationary. You can walk around with this on. Keep in mind the rice sock will add some weight, maybe a pound or so. This also works well as a pre-heat before any length or girth session.
 
DutchAthletic92 said:
Regarding the therapeutic heat,

Is it beneficial to have a red IR lamp constantly shining at your dick and balls? Like the MOSRed? I don’t know if the MOSRed lamp can be adjusted to give 40-43 degrees Celsius of heat...

What about cooking your balls during the length sessions? I hang with the SiliStretcher2 and I hang 4 hours per day on average, does that mean I have to put heat on my shaft for 4 hours straight from an IR lamp/ MOSRed lamp source?

Too much heat lowers sperm production and testosterone levels, it kills your sperm. I used to do my newbie stretching routine while being heated by an IR lamp and it was a nice feeling to stretch with the heat but sometimes it got too hot and burnt myself. Also I was worried about cooking my testicles...
Click to expand...

There are safety restraints that everybody should take into account when using the MOSRed. If you read in the store under the product name you will see how to safely use the MOSRed.
 
Fillerup said:
Have you considered just putting rice into a sock and tying up the end. Then, heat in microwave to desired temperature (you'll have to experiment a little.) Then, wrap that around your dick while hanging. You can place it so that it's just above the silistretcher but not touching your balls, hence no worries about heating them up, sperm and Test levels etc. You can hold it in place with a strap or even elastic bands. Reheat as needed. Should retain it's heat for maybe 10-15 minutes. And you're not stationary. You can walk around with this on. Keep in mind the rice sock will add some weight, maybe a pound or so. This also works well as a pre-heat before any length or girth session.
Click to expand...

I am stationary because I hang while working at my desk. I use a pulley system to get a straight out hanging angle. It’s a hassle to constantly reheat the rice sock. And I also live with roommates so that would be awkward if they’d catch me walking around with the SiliStretcher on swinging between my legs. I wish I lived alone...

I discarded the heating pad because it emits electro magnetic waves and those are very damaging to your testicles / sperm / hormones etc...

I need a heating system without electricity. The rice sock method is interesting but not practical. Also it would only heat up surface layer tissues and it would not target the deeper tunica layers. Deep tissue heating is needed. So the MOSRed lamp would come in handy but it’s time restricted for only 10-15 minutes 2 times in a 24 hour period with at least 6 hours between every heating session.

So all heating methods have their restrictions / limitations and that’s very unfortunate.
 
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DutchAthletic92 said:
I am stationary because I hang while working at my desk. I use a pulley system to get a straight out hanging angle. It’s a hassle to constantly reheat the rice sock. And I also live with roommates so that would be awkward if they’d catch me walking around with the SiliStretcher on swinging between my legs. I wish I lived alone...

I discarded the heating pad because it emits electro magnetic waves and those are very damaging to your testicles / sperm / hormones etc...

I need a heating system without electricity. The rice sock method is interesting but not practical. Also it would only heat up surface layer tissues and it would not target the deeper tunica layers. Deep tissue heating is needed. So the MOSRed lamp would come in handy but it’s time restricted for only 10-15 minutes 2 times in a 24 hour period with at least 6 hours between every heating session.

So all heating methods have their restrictions / limitations and that’s very unfortunate.
Click to expand...
Well, you're in bit of a predicament for sure. On a positive note, there's a lot of guys out there that have made significant gains without ever applying heat. Probably the majority. Even the studies surrounding the PF, various extenders ets. make no mention of using heat. I have seen your determination and commitment, and have little doubt you will successful, with or without applying heat.
 
BPSFL Focused Routine: Part B, Stress-Strain Curve
The Stress-strain curve is the relationship between stress and strain of a material. It is unique for a given material and is found by recording the amount of strain (deformation) at distinct intervals with a variety of stresses (loadings or weights).

There has been no direct studies on the stress-strain curve on the penis as whole but there has been on tissues similar to what's found in the penis, connective tissue such as tendons and ligaments. Keep in mind there are other forms of connective tissue and other tissues( in the penis and in different layers, stacked upon each other and each layer can both act separately and with the other layers. It'll be a good idea to thoroughly review thre anatomy of the penis if needed.

This is a yoga instructor's blog and she describes stretching of collagen fibers and connective tissues simple enough for lay people. Keep in mind the healing link I posted earlier in decon section.

Viscoelasticity

Creep and Recovery

Tissue Mechanics: Connective Tissues

Also the stress strain curve is a physics thing. I have never taken any physics classes. I'm posting some videos that have helped me understand the very basics.



An amateur resource directed at biomechanics of tendons and ligaments.

And basic orthopedic doctor showing what happens to collagen fibrils during stress strain curve.

One that might help tie it all together and is a bonus.

Load-Strain Behavior
Here is a study on the stress-strain curve of a rat tail tendon. Some things can be inferred by this study especially the uncrimping of the fibrils during initial loading that represents the toe region. This is why the first hanging set as BIB mentioned can be felt as a warm up set as these fibrils straighten out and start to resist the load in unison.

In a typical load-strain, stress-relaxation experiment a curve is obtained of the
type shown diagrammatically in Fig. 5. The tendon is stretched at a predetermined
rate to the desired strain, thus producing the load-strain curve
shown at the left. The tendon is then maintained at this particular strain and
measurements of the load are continued, resulting in the stress-relaxation
curve shown at the right.

Fig. 6 shows a characteristic sequence of tendon load-strain curves. All
these were made with the same tendon. In each case the tendon was extended
at the same constant rate but to different extensions. After each extension
the tendon was unloaded and rested in a slack condition whereupon its
original length was fully recovered, except as noted below. This recovery
process in all cases took no longer than 10 minutes. The sequence begins with
curve A which represents a strain of only 2.5 per cent. After a rest the tendon
was stretched again, and, as shown in curve B, the behavior exactly follows
that of curve A. If the strain does not exceed approximately 4 per cent, this
load-strain behavior is reproducible through an indefinite number of cycles.

The Mechanical Properties of Rat Tail Tendon
BERNARD J. RIGBY, NISHIO HIRAI, JOHN D. SPIKES,
and HENRY EYRING
Rat Tail Tendon Study

I know there is a lot to digest here. Stress relaxation is where the amount of stress is reduced over a given time because the penis and its tissue relaxes and causes some degree of plastic strain. This is primarily how extenders work. I have accomplished the same with the silistretcher. The stress needs to be held constant over time and then you'll feel it be less intense as stress relaxation comes into play. It has been found it typically is fully occurred after 300 seconds or 5 min.

Your workouts will benefit from having a toned down first couple minutes as you pull through the toe region and move through the stress-strain curve. Anytime stress is added it needs to be done slowly so that the body will relax in this stretch.

So calculating strain is pretty easy. It's post measurement divided by pre measurement minus 1 and multiplied by 100

[(Post-BPSFL÷pre-BPSFL)-1]×100

For instance pre measurement was 21.8 cm and post was 22.4 cm.
[(22.4÷21.8)-1]×100
[1.0275-1]×100
[0.0275]×100
2.75% Strain for that day.

I think that's enough for now I'll move on to heat, not warmup, but therapeutic heat. From there I'll tie it all together and then keep posting new insights here. I'll be out of town most of next week so bare with me. More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch
 
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Fillerup said:
Well, you're in bit of a predicament for sure. On a positive note, there's a lot of guys out there that have made significant gains without ever applying heat. Probably the majority. Even the studies surrounding the PF, various extenders ets. make no mention of using heat. I have seen your determination and commitment, and have little doubt you will successful, with or without applying heat.
Click to expand...

I am saving up for the MOSRed lamp and I will apply heat pre hanging 15 minutes deep tissue warming up and after 6 hours a good 15 minutes of nice heat after my hanging sets are done. that’s the least I can do in terms of heat.
 
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