The Long Game: Learning with Longstretch, Key Principles to Make Sustained Growth

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longstretch

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I'll preface this with not everything mentioned here will be applicable to newbies and many things I'll discuss will go beyond this thread. However some of the things will be applicable to newbies and veterans alike. Personal research, thought and application will be warranted.

This thread will start and evolve. I will first seek to lay out some principles that I have found to provide sustained growth. I will then in as layman's terms as I can attempt, provide some of the science behind the principles. Continuous growth until end goal is reached is ultimately all our goals but many stall after making initial gains and keep sputtering along with little to no progress. The response to this stall, especially on this forum in particular, is well wrong.

I fully expect for many here to dismiss some if not all these principles. Especially those set in their ways. Revolutions aren't accomplished in a day. I also expect with enough interest and time the majority will come around, especially when results... well results speak for themselves.

I don't claim to have all the answers. Many things discussed here you can see evolving in my own progress report, especially with my comeback this year. However I am gaining consistently and my hope is to bring those results for other souls. Currently I am gaining 0.1 cm per week during my campaign, which is as fast as I could probably hope for being that I've done PE for 15 years.

Again this will be a evolving thread as there is too much to discuss in one post. Much that will be discussed I have recently talked about in my log and in other threads.

Principles
1.) Decondition Breaks: I put this at top of the list for a reason. The other forums have accepted decon breaks as a tool but this site in particular seems to resist them. Not surprisingly, to me at least, there are more and more cases of gains stalling here. My first post after this one will go in on decon breaks and offer suggestions. Straight up everyone should have scheduled decon breaks in their routine if they want to have sustained growth.

2.) Using BPSFL as a guide for their routine. BPSFL can be a guide on BPEL gains. You can also use them to determine the effectiveness of your routine. On this principle I will discuss heavy on accurate measurements, basics of the stress-strain curve and how that relates to connective tissue and the penis as a whole and even how you can use these measurements as a guide for when you need a decon break.

3.) Therapeutic heat: ideal heat should be 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C). 45°C and up causes tissue death, below this and the connective tissue will not behave like we want it to in the stretch. I don't mean warm up either. I don't warm up. This heat is a tool only to be used under a tensile load. A natural cool down (no ice) is advised after heat and this as well will be under tension.

These principles can be used to adjust any routine. I am now making great gains using "light" loads and the majority of my routine is right at an hour. More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch.
 
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Yay! I like healthy discussions and we can all learn plus challenge paradigms!

1) On the Decon...You did not place a standard there. What have you found work for you? I have used a month off decon break...I have also done a week off in my PE history.

2) I wholeheartedly agree with the BPSFL method. This eliminates the frustration of trying to get decent EQ to measure without resorting to adult entertainment.

3) Interesting take...can the heat be used during pumping or pumping breaks? I used 160F to warm up to make the tissues pliable on training days and I use 160F on my off days. Based on your statement and standard, are you suggesting that I am killing off tissue?
 
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1.) Deconditioning Breaks
What comes after a period of intense exercise? How do we grow in the gym? It's an analogy but not a perfect one. The gym damages and stresses muscle fibers and its not until we rest that the body rebuilds itself. Now too intense training will lead to poor performance and then overtraining hence the dawn of daily undulating periodization and other modalities to keep pushing the boundaries.

Now if we cause our penis to toughen up that means we can no longer stretch it the same length with the same weight or will need longer time under tension. A penis can grow so tough it can resist over 100 lbs and not break, nor give gains. Now the toughening process cannot be avoided but many PE practitioners unknowingly do things to hasten this process.

Now at some point I might list the studies of rat tail tendons being stretched and rabbit's mcl tendons being stretched in vivo (performed in a living organism) and stretching of hamstrings, etc and how these items relate to stretching the penis, however, it might be beyond this thread and to keep my thoughts simplified I will post the following link on soft tissue healing.

Soft Tissue Repair

And as mentioned here

What a decon break does is allow the body to heal. It'll lay down a patchwork of fibroblasts and extracellular matrix and if done regularly as part of your routine, I believe allow proliferation of the tissue, i.e growth! Without a decon the toughening process continues and the fibrils produced by existing fibroblasts converge and continue to resist the change. Our body loves its homeostasis.

There is evidence that if stretching is ballistic in nature or reaches a certain stress level the body tries to mainly strengthen penis to further resist stress. This is why stretches don't need to be too aggressive or for hangers don't hang for weight hang for gains.

For now the very basic concept is this. A decondition break works as reset for the body. Those thickened fibrils get trimmed some. Proliferation ideally occurs so there are more cells where you want them for when you come back. And main take away is when you come back you can make quicker gains at a much reduced workload than when you stopped.

What does this mean. Well instead of spinning your wheels, upping workloads and time of your routine ad infinitum... you can just stop for a period of time and when you come back make cheap and easy gains!!! Get those cheap and easy gains, when they start to diminish or downright stall (proposed between 12 days and 60 days) take a decon and come back for more cheap and easy gains.

What?!!! You're telling me to grow I sometimes have to stop. You're damn right that's what I'm saying.

My History with Decons
You long timers think back on your career. I'll tell you about mine. I stalled after the 1st 12 months and gaining 0.5 inch. Practiced manual PE RELIGIOUSLY FOR 2 FUCKING YEARS with 0 gains. What's the definition of insanity again? I took 3 months off and started vacuum hanging and gained 1 inch in 6 months with light weights though a big time investment. Still didn't have a clue. Started and stopped so many times I lost count. 1 thing is clear I made my best and quickest gains after a decon. I just reached inch #3 after taking 18 to 20 months off though unplanned I'm making great progress. DLD before coming up with SRT took 2 months off. If you go looking you'll find this truth with many many others.

Are there some that can keep making great gains just upping intensity and time, you bet. Arnold was already a beast at 16 years old before steroid use. Genetics can only go so far. This concept will work for everyone because it's backed by science and how the body works.

Practical Recommendations
Now how to make this practical. As noted in link I posted it can take up to a year for connective tissue to fully heal. 3 months to be mostly healed. However we're not likely reaching that kind of injury. The length of decon is proportional to intensity of routine, length of time PEing with no break and time stalled. You up those variable expect to up the decon break.

So if you've been stalled for 6 months let's say, or you've never taken a decon or you're hanging over 20 lbs, or you don't think you can increase your time investment and are going balls to the walls each routine but not seeing results; take at least 3 months off.

When you come back to it keep those cheap and easy gains in mind. Just enough force to elicit a response, without unneeded toughening. Cheap and easy. Take accurate measurements preferably in cm. After a month or 2 from now on take at least a ninth off. If everyone did this we would have more data on what the best length of a decon could be, but these recommendations are the basics and work.

ADS Use
Now some will still ADS while on decon and I suggest to experiment. ADS is light load not looking to cause further elongation. ADS could be counterproductive because you are keeping those fibrils aligned against the strain. If you don't potentially the patchwork made during decon will be disorganized and when coming back from decon it will resist less and these can then be recruited for further elongation. I and others have weaned off ADS with results though so experiment. A wean might look like the first week you ADS 8 hours/day. 2nd week 4 hours/day. 3rd week 1 hour a day and last week nothing. My next decon I will not use any ADS whatsoever.

Remember you want your gains to be the opposite of your lovers: Cheap and Easy
More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch
 
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Haursen said:
3) Interesting take...can the heat be used during pumping or pumping breaks? I used 160F to warm up to make the tissues pliable on training days and I use 160F on my off days. Based on your statement and standard, are you suggesting that I am killing off tissue?
Click to expand...
How do you know the temperature is this high because I think you would burn the skin within minutes if not seconds at that temperature. Hot water heaters tap out at 120°F and that's high enough to burn in 5 minutes

And I promise guys these concepts actually tie into each other.
 
longstretch said:
How do you know the temperature is this high because I think you would burn the skin within minutes if not seconds at that temperature. Hot water heaters tap out at 120°F and that's high enough to burn in 5 minutes
Click to expand...

I have a Cara Heating Pad with Select Heat. It states 160 F is the highest. I use moist heat. My penis skin doesn't burn though. I do feel the heat. Maybe I'm a mutant.
 
Ok so the pad gets that high but it's doubtful that is getting absorbed into your penis, in other words doubt your penis is getting close to that high. I think you're okay if not getting burned. I typically use ultrasound, IR and or rice sock and it'll feel like a deep heat. Shouldn't burn but at times does feel a little uncomfortable. Heat will be discussed later in depth. Thanks for the discussion.
 
I don't feel valid to say much. ;) However I do find @longstretch 's posts about the decon breaks interesting. And I personally feel I've had those certain kind of reactions! I'm far away from my goal but I've had breaks here and there and noticed that after certain breaks the gains just seem to set easier.

In the strain of that I think that it is also about giving the body the time to rest. It's not like your muscles grow instantly at the gym, it's the rest time that plays a big role! Maybe not the best analogy, but I do feel that some men might be going too fast at times.
 
I applaud you sir, for creating this thread. I can hear the squeaking and creaking of gears in unison.

I have never been one to take rest days, or deconditioning breaks unless forced. I rest in-between sessions.

It is IMPORTANT IMO to up the ante in intensity, but only with spikes. Like stated many many times, your body will toughen, much like the branch or stalk of a plant, under extended/prolonged stress. I incorporate INTENSE stretching, as well as any manual work really, but I will only do this to "shock" my body.

We are ALL DIFFERENT, but we also share many similarities. What works great for me at this point in my journey may not be wholey beneficial for another, at the point they are at.

Seriously, @longstretch THANK YOU for making this thread.

Blessings. ...
 
TuffDong said:
I applaud you sir, for creating this thread. I can hear the squeaking and creaking of gears in unison.

I have never been one to take rest days, or deconditioning breaks unless forced. I rest in-between sessions.

It is IMPORTANT IMO to up the ante in intensity, but only with spikes. Like stated many many times, your body will toughen, much like the branch or stalk of a plant, under extended/prolonged stress. I incorporate INTENSE stretching, as well as any manual work really, but I will only do this to "shock" my body.

We are ALL DIFFERENT, but we also share many similarities. What works great for me at this point in my journey may not be wholey beneficial for another, at the point they are at.

Seriously, @longstretch THANK YOU for making this thread.

Blessings. ...
Click to expand...

Thanks for that!
 
2.) BPSFL Focused Routine: Part A, Accurate and Consistent Measurements
The importance of personal accurate measurements cannot be overstated. These are not to impress lovers or strangers over the internet. These are for you, though if you share them in your log it could provide data to future PErs on what might work for them. BPEL gains should still be tracked as well as girth measurements but BPSFL can be taken at any time without erection. A gain in BPSFL usually precedes a gain in BPEL. Also as I'll discuss later on about the stress-strain curve of connective tissue, BPSFL can be used to track how effective your current daily routine is in terms of possible length gains. Using these tracking methods we can also track any diminishing results and either make adjustments to routine or take a decon break.

What it'll tell me when to take a decon? I believe so and has been a factor in my recent routines and others!!!

Hip angle and perspective can effect the measurement the user sees. I personally stand with neutral hips and head in same position. In seated position I can get bigger measurements just by varying hip angle, this also causes wide fluctuations. The important thing is consistency without "cheating". You want to measure the same way each time, again leave ego at the door and think like a scientist. This is your lab and your result have huge implications.

Another thing I'd recommend, thinking like a scientist, is to measure in cm or mm. Every inch is 2.54 cm. That means when you measure in cm you can more accurately read each notch in the ruler. Once you get used to it, it's really easy to convert back to freedom units, just divide the number by 2.54. No more pesky fractions haha.

As I'll discuss in Part B, I recommend everyone to start measuring pre and post routine. As seen in my own thread I'll many times measure between different exercises to better gauge what exactly I'm getting out of each exercise.... with the understanding that the first exercise, hang set or few stretches will be uncrimping the tangled up connective tissue fibrils. That means that first set will likely be what gives you the biggest TEMPORARY gain in BPSFL as you pull your penile tissue out of the toe region and into the knee region of the stress- strain curve. Point being if everyone starts measuring these points they'll be able to predict if they need to do more, they are doing enough or even if they could have done way less and got the same results!!!

You're measurements and the accurate interpretation of them will be key. Your penis will tell you exactly what it needs to grow! Keep in mind even pushing thre boundaries the rate of growth is naturally limited but with enough time your goals can be achieved.

More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch
giphy.gif

Edit 01/10/2020
In addition to taking regular BPSFL I now recommend to measure behind the coronal ridge when tracking measurements and calculating strain. I do this by pinching head and pulling straight out.

This way takes out many inaccuracies that can happen when fluid buildup of the glans occurs. I use a vac mod to attach the LG hanger to an X4 Labs extender for half an hour, ratcheting up intensity every 5 min. Then I hang with the LG hanger and finally do manual fulcrum stretches using a Bib hardcore and the power assist . Needless to say with the right intensity fluid buildup does occur and can vary greatly from day to day.

By measuring the coronal ridge it takes away the possibility of having over inflated strain (to be discussed further in thread) measuring an area that is unlikely to experience fluid buildup, unlike the glans itself.
 
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One of the biggest mistakes men make when they start to train is faulty measurements or no measurements at all. It is vital to take perfect measurements every time from the same exact location. If you do not do this you’re never going to know if you really gained size or not. Follow the measuring guide and you’ll be all set. Sometimes men don’t want to measure for self fear but don’t let that scare you! You have come here to get larger and that’s exactly what’s going to happen so do not fear measuring as it is the only way for us to determine the gains we make.
 
longstretch said:
I'll preface this with not everything mentioned here will be applicable to newbies and many things I'll discuss will go beyond this thread. However some of the things will be applicable to newbies and veterans alike. Personal research, thought and application will be warranted.

This thread will start and evolve. I will first seek to lay out some principles that I have found to provide sustained growth. I will then in as layman's terms as I can attempt, provide some of the science behind the principles. Continuous growth until end goal is reached is ultimately all our goals but many stall after making initial gains and keep sputtering along with little to no progress. The response to this stall, especially on this forum in particular, is well wrong.

I fully expect for many here to dismiss some if not all these principles. Especially those set in their ways. Revolutions aren't accomplished in a day. I also expect with enough interest and time the majority will come around, especially when results... well results speak for themselves.

I don't claim to have all the answers. Many things discussed here you can see evolving in my own progress report, especially with my comeback this year. However I am gaining consistently and my hope is to bring those results for other souls. Currently I am gaining 0.1 cm per week during my campaign, which is as fast as I could probably hope for being that I've done PE for 15 years.

Again this will be a evolving thread as there is too much to discuss in one post. Much that will be discussed I have recently talked about in my log and in other threads.

Principles
1.) Decondition Breaks: I put this at top of the list for a reason. The other forums have accepted decon breaks as a tool but this site in particular seems to resist them. Not surprisingly, to me at least, there are more and more cases of gains stalling here. My first post after this one will go in on decon breaks and offer suggestions. Straight up everyone should have scheduled decon breaks in their routine if they want to have sustained growth.

2.) Using BPSFL as a guide for their routine. BPSFL can be a guide on BPEL gains. You can also use them to determine the effectiveness of your routine. On this principle I will discuss heavy on accurate measurements, basics of the stress-strain curve and how that relates to connective tissue and the penis as a whole and even how you can use these measurements as a guide for when you need a decon break.

3.) Therapeutic heat: ideal heat should be 40 to 43°C (104-109.4°F). 45°C and up causes tissue death, below this and the connective tissue will not behave like we want it to in the stretch. I don't mean warm up either. I don't warm up. This heat is a tool only to be used under a tensile load. A natural cool down (no ice) is advised after heat and this as well will be under tension.

These principles can be used to adjust any routine. I am now making great gains using "light" loads and the majority of my routine is right at an hour. More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch.
Click to expand...

Regarding the therapeutic heat,

Is it beneficial to have a red IR lamp constantly shining at your dick and balls? Like the MOSRed? I don’t know if the MOSRed lamp can be adjusted to give 40-43 degrees Celsius of heat...

What about cooking your balls during the length sessions? I hang with the SiliStretcher2 and I hang 4 hours per day on average, does that mean I have to put heat on my shaft for 4 hours straight from an IR lamp/ MOSRed lamp source?

Too much heat lowers sperm production and testosterone levels, it kills your sperm. I used to do my newbie stretching routine while being heated by an IR lamp and it was a nice feeling to stretch with the heat but sometimes it got too hot and burnt myself. Also I was worried about cooking my testicles...
 
DutchAthletic92 said:
Regarding the therapeutic heat,

Is it beneficial to have a red IR lamp constantly shining at your dick and balls? Like the MOSRed? I don’t know if the MOSRed lamp can be adjusted to give 40-43 degrees Celsius of heat...

What about cooking your balls during the length sessions? I hang with the SiliStretcher2 and I hang 4 hours per day on average, does that mean I have to put heat on my shaft for 4 hours straight from an IR lamp/ MOSRed lamp source?

Too much heat lowers sperm production and testosterone levels, it kills your sperm. I used to do my newbie stretching routine while being heated by an IR lamp and it was a nice feeling to stretch with the heat but sometimes it got too hot and burnt myself. Also I was worried about cooking my testicles...
Click to expand...
Have you considered just putting rice into a sock and tying up the end. Then, heat in microwave to desired temperature (you'll have to experiment a little.) Then, wrap that around your dick while hanging. You can place it so that it's just above the silistretcher but not touching your balls, hence no worries about heating them up, sperm and Test levels etc. You can hold it in place with a strap or even elastic bands. Reheat as needed. Should retain it's heat for maybe 10-15 minutes. And you're not stationary. You can walk around with this on. Keep in mind the rice sock will add some weight, maybe a pound or so. This also works well as a pre-heat before any length or girth session.
 
DutchAthletic92 said:
Regarding the therapeutic heat,

Is it beneficial to have a red IR lamp constantly shining at your dick and balls? Like the MOSRed? I don’t know if the MOSRed lamp can be adjusted to give 40-43 degrees Celsius of heat...

What about cooking your balls during the length sessions? I hang with the SiliStretcher2 and I hang 4 hours per day on average, does that mean I have to put heat on my shaft for 4 hours straight from an IR lamp/ MOSRed lamp source?

Too much heat lowers sperm production and testosterone levels, it kills your sperm. I used to do my newbie stretching routine while being heated by an IR lamp and it was a nice feeling to stretch with the heat but sometimes it got too hot and burnt myself. Also I was worried about cooking my testicles...
Click to expand...

There are safety restraints that everybody should take into account when using the MOSRed. If you read in the store under the product name you will see how to safely use the MOSRed.
 
Fillerup said:
Have you considered just putting rice into a sock and tying up the end. Then, heat in microwave to desired temperature (you'll have to experiment a little.) Then, wrap that around your dick while hanging. You can place it so that it's just above the silistretcher but not touching your balls, hence no worries about heating them up, sperm and Test levels etc. You can hold it in place with a strap or even elastic bands. Reheat as needed. Should retain it's heat for maybe 10-15 minutes. And you're not stationary. You can walk around with this on. Keep in mind the rice sock will add some weight, maybe a pound or so. This also works well as a pre-heat before any length or girth session.
Click to expand...

I am stationary because I hang while working at my desk. I use a pulley system to get a straight out hanging angle. It’s a hassle to constantly reheat the rice sock. And I also live with roommates so that would be awkward if they’d catch me walking around with the SiliStretcher on swinging between my legs. I wish I lived alone...

I discarded the heating pad because it emits electro magnetic waves and those are very damaging to your testicles / sperm / hormones etc...

I need a heating system without electricity. The rice sock method is interesting but not practical. Also it would only heat up surface layer tissues and it would not target the deeper tunica layers. Deep tissue heating is needed. So the MOSRed lamp would come in handy but it’s time restricted for only 10-15 minutes 2 times in a 24 hour period with at least 6 hours between every heating session.

So all heating methods have their restrictions / limitations and that’s very unfortunate.
 
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DutchAthletic92 said:
I am stationary because I hang while working at my desk. I use a pulley system to get a straight out hanging angle. It’s a hassle to constantly reheat the rice sock. And I also live with roommates so that would be awkward if they’d catch me walking around with the SiliStretcher on swinging between my legs. I wish I lived alone...

I discarded the heating pad because it emits electro magnetic waves and those are very damaging to your testicles / sperm / hormones etc...

I need a heating system without electricity. The rice sock method is interesting but not practical. Also it would only heat up surface layer tissues and it would not target the deeper tunica layers. Deep tissue heating is needed. So the MOSRed lamp would come in handy but it’s time restricted for only 10-15 minutes 2 times in a 24 hour period with at least 6 hours between every heating session.

So all heating methods have their restrictions / limitations and that’s very unfortunate.
Click to expand...
Well, you're in bit of a predicament for sure. On a positive note, there's a lot of guys out there that have made significant gains without ever applying heat. Probably the majority. Even the studies surrounding the PF, various extenders ets. make no mention of using heat. I have seen your determination and commitment, and have little doubt you will successful, with or without applying heat.
 
BPSFL Focused Routine: Part B, Stress-Strain Curve
The Stress-strain curve is the relationship between stress and strain of a material. It is unique for a given material and is found by recording the amount of strain (deformation) at distinct intervals with a variety of stresses (loadings or weights).

There has been no direct studies on the stress-strain curve on the penis as whole but there has been on tissues similar to what's found in the penis, connective tissue such as tendons and ligaments. Keep in mind there are other forms of connective tissue and other tissues( in the penis and in different layers, stacked upon each other and each layer can both act separately and with the other layers. It'll be a good idea to thoroughly review thre anatomy of the penis if needed.

This is a yoga instructor's blog and she describes stretching of collagen fibers and connective tissues simple enough for lay people. Keep in mind the healing link I posted earlier in decon section.

Viscoelasticity

Creep and Recovery

Tissue Mechanics: Connective Tissues

Also the stress strain curve is a physics thing. I have never taken any physics classes. I'm posting some videos that have helped me understand the very basics.



An amateur resource directed at biomechanics of tendons and ligaments.

And basic orthopedic doctor showing what happens to collagen fibrils during stress strain curve.

One that might help tie it all together and is a bonus.

Load-Strain Behavior
Here is a study on the stress-strain curve of a rat tail tendon. Some things can be inferred by this study especially the uncrimping of the fibrils during initial loading that represents the toe region. This is why the first hanging set as BIB mentioned can be felt as a warm up set as these fibrils straighten out and start to resist the load in unison.

In a typical load-strain, stress-relaxation experiment a curve is obtained of the
type shown diagrammatically in Fig. 5. The tendon is stretched at a predetermined
rate to the desired strain, thus producing the load-strain curve
shown at the left. The tendon is then maintained at this particular strain and
measurements of the load are continued, resulting in the stress-relaxation
curve shown at the right.

Fig. 6 shows a characteristic sequence of tendon load-strain curves. All
these were made with the same tendon. In each case the tendon was extended
at the same constant rate but to different extensions. After each extension
the tendon was unloaded and rested in a slack condition whereupon its
original length was fully recovered, except as noted below. This recovery
process in all cases took no longer than 10 minutes. The sequence begins with
curve A which represents a strain of only 2.5 per cent. After a rest the tendon
was stretched again, and, as shown in curve B, the behavior exactly follows
that of curve A. If the strain does not exceed approximately 4 per cent, this
load-strain behavior is reproducible through an indefinite number of cycles.

The Mechanical Properties of Rat Tail Tendon
BERNARD J. RIGBY, NISHIO HIRAI, JOHN D. SPIKES,
and HENRY EYRING
Rat Tail Tendon Study

I know there is a lot to digest here. Stress relaxation is where the amount of stress is reduced over a given time because the penis and its tissue relaxes and causes some degree of plastic strain. This is primarily how extenders work. I have accomplished the same with the silistretcher. The stress needs to be held constant over time and then you'll feel it be less intense as stress relaxation comes into play. It has been found it typically is fully occurred after 300 seconds or 5 min.

Your workouts will benefit from having a toned down first couple minutes as you pull through the toe region and move through the stress-strain curve. Anytime stress is added it needs to be done slowly so that the body will relax in this stretch.

So calculating strain is pretty easy. It's post measurement divided by pre measurement minus 1 and multiplied by 100

[(Post-BPSFL÷pre-BPSFL)-1]×100

For instance pre measurement was 21.8 cm and post was 22.4 cm.
[(22.4÷21.8)-1]×100
[1.0275-1]×100
[0.0275]×100
2.75% Strain for that day.

I think that's enough for now I'll move on to heat, not warmup, but therapeutic heat. From there I'll tie it all together and then keep posting new insights here. I'll be out of town most of next week so bare with me. More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch
 
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Fillerup said:
Well, you're in bit of a predicament for sure. On a positive note, there's a lot of guys out there that have made significant gains without ever applying heat. Probably the majority. Even the studies surrounding the PF, various extenders ets. make no mention of using heat. I have seen your determination and commitment, and have little doubt you will successful, with or without applying heat.
Click to expand...

I am saving up for the MOSRed lamp and I will apply heat pre hanging 15 minutes deep tissue warming up and after 6 hours a good 15 minutes of nice heat after my hanging sets are done. that’s the least I can do in terms of heat.
 
DutchAthletic92 said:
I am saving up for the MOSRed lamp and I will apply heat pre hanging 15 minutes deep tissue warming up and after 6 hours a good 15 minutes of nice heat after my hanging sets are done. that’s the least I can do in terms of heat.
Click to expand...

You’re going to absolutely love it for not just this but many other reasons. We’re still coming up with new uses.
 
MosRed isn't really a heating device, it's red light and near infrared therapy. The far infrared lamps are usually the ones that heat. I'll cover more to come.

I highly recommend ultrasound but I'll warn everyone right now you can really damage yourself with it and it should be thoroughly researched and only used for like 10 to 20 min. Microwaveble clay heat packs work too. Infrared works but must be held close to penis and can cause burns. I keep my balls in my boxers and pull penis through pee hole.
 
BPSFL Focused Routine: Part C, Conclusion and Thoughts
So measuring this strain rate becomes increasingly important to see just how much deformation aka strain we are achieving. Based on mine and others experiences 2-5% is the daily goal. We are operating mainly in the elastic region and so most of this post measurement will go back to pre given enough time, usually by next day. Microscopically it's thought that some cells will be stretched, some fibril linkages broken and the response will be fibroblast mediated proliferation. This means if we hit these numbers consistently growth will occur, with little to no inflammation.

This will tell us how effective our current routine is and help us predict how much we can gain before decon. Newbies can usually achieve a higher strain rate (~5%) and us veterans will need to aim for 2.25-3.00%. You can even measure between different exercises and see what each set or group of exercises is doing for your strain rate. If an exercise is giving at least 0.1 cm after a period of time, say 10 min, it's safe to say it's effective. You can see if you should've stopped long ago or if you need to up the intensity. And the more people in this community start tracking this the more accurate we will become. And you can see by the curve, after the toe region it'll take increasingly more weight to achieve only a little more strain, and at some point risking injury. The response to increased weight to a certain point isn't ever increasing strain but toughening of tissue, limiting any cheap and easy gains to be had.

We can also look at the cumulative effect in our current cycle between decons. Me and others have noted gains slow between 14 and 60 days. If we are gaining we can account for a usual cumulative effect of 5-8% strain if calculated from day 1 to the last day of current gain cycle. When you approach these numbers in any cycle you'll know to start wrapping it up and looking to start your decon. Also it appears that outside newbie gains, gains can only happen so fast. Me and others have noticed this is approximately 0.1 cm per 5 to 14 days.
More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch
 
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So while our penis maybe only give us a 2-5% stain rate it's very likely that the tight and or weak links in the penis are giving more at the cellular level. This has been thought to be the work of fibroblast mediated proliferation, remember proliferation=gains. Little to no inflammation is needed.

Intrinsic fibroblast-mediated remodeling of damaged collagenous matrices in vivo

Paolo P. Provenzanoa, b, , , Adriana L. Alejandro-Osoriob, c, Wilmot B. Valhmub, Kristina T. Jensena, b and Ray Vanderby, Jr.a, b

aDepartment of Biomedical Engineering, University of Wisconsin, Madison, WI, United States bDepartment of Orthopedics and Rehabilitation, University of Wisconsin, Madison, WI, United States cDepartment of Biomolecular Chemistry, University of Wisconsin, Madison, WI, United States



Abstract

Numerous studies have examined wound healing and tissue repair after a complete tissue rupture and reported provisional matrix and scar tissue formation in the injury gap. The initial phases of the repair are largely mediated by the coagulation response and a principally extrinsic inflammatory response followed by type III collagen deposition to form scar tissue that may be later remodeled.In this study, we examine subfailure (Grade II sprain) damage to collagenous matrices in which no gross tissue gap is present and a localized concentration of provisional matrix or scar tissue does not form. .This results in extracellular matrix remodeling that relies heavily upon type I collagen, and associated proteoglycans, and less heavily on type III scar tissue collagen. For instance, following subfailure tissue damage, collagen I and III expression was suppressed after 1 day, but by day 7 expression of both genes was significantly increased over controls, with collagen I expression significantly larger than type III expression. Concurrent with increased collagen expression were significantly increased expression of the collagen fibrillogenesis supporting [urlproteoglycans fibromodulin, lumican, decorin, the large aggregating proteoglycan versican, and proteases cathepsin K and L. Interestingly, this remodeling process appears intrinsic with little or no inflammation response as damaged tissues show no changes in macrophage or neutrophils levels following injury and expression of the inflammatory markers, tumor necrosis factor-α and tartrate-resistant acid phosphatase were unchanged. Hence, since inflammation plays a large role in wound healing by inducing cell migration and proliferation, and controlling extracellular matrix scar formation, its absence leaves fibroblasts to principally direct tissue remodeling. Therefore, following a Grade II subfailure injury to the collagen matrix, we conclude that tissue remodeling is fibroblast-mediated and occurs without scar tissue formation, but instead with type I collagen fibrillogenesis to repair the tissue. As such, this system provides unique insight into acute tissue damage and offers a potentially powerful model to examine fibroblast behavior.

Matrix Biology, Volume 23, issue 8, January 2005, pag. 543-555

Also the statement “following subfailure tissue damage, collagen I and III expression was suppressed after 1 day, but by day 7 expression of both genes was significantly increased over controls, with collagen I expression significantly larger than type III expression. Concurrent with increased collagen expression were significantly increased expression of the collagen fibrillogenesis” also serves to illustrate why recovery time is needed between PE sessions.
More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch
 
This is amazing, brother. I haven't so much as dipped my toe in these waters before.

I have read about this Bib fellow, but haven't read his words. This info may be too scientific for most, but I am getting it, little by little.

I feel I need to invest in more "professional" devices, as my homemade ones seem medieval by comparison. They will have to do though, as my Home Depot credit line only works for the materials I am able to obtain.

You are giving us some EXTREMELY VALUABLE information here, and once again I feel the need to give you a standing ovation.

I look forward to your continued posts...

Thank you, my brother.
 
DutchAthletic92 said:
I am stationary because I hang while working at my desk. I use a pulley system to get a straight out hanging angle. It’s a hassle to constantly reheat the rice sock. And I also live with roommates so that would be awkward if they’d catch me walking around with the SiliStretcher on swinging between my legs. I wish I lived alone...

I discarded the heating pad because it emits electro magnetic waves and those are very damaging to your testicles / sperm / hormones etc...

I need a heating system without electricity. The rice sock method is interesting but not practical. Also it would only heat up surface layer tissues and it would not target the deeper tunica layers. Deep tissue heating is needed. So the MOSRed lamp would come in handy but it’s time restricted for only 10-15 minutes 2 times in a 24 hour period with at least 6 hours between every heating session.

So all heating methods have their restrictions / limitations and that’s very unfortunate.
Click to expand...

I tried the rice sock method, and found it to be too much of a hassle as well as really not liking having no precise control of the heat.

Heating pads I never tried. Too cumbersome for me. I like things simple. Once I found the Soma Care system, I fell in love with how easy it is to use.
 
TuffDong said:
Heating pads I never tried. Too cumbersome for me. I like things simple. Once I found the Soma Care system, I fell in love with how easy it is to use.
Click to expand...

Are used heating pads during my whole P journey. They are cumbersome but extremely effective if you have total privacy. I would wear mine every second of the day that I was not training to keep myself in a state of malleability. But they are cumbersome so working on something right now that’s going to be effective and not so cumbersome.
 
TuffDong said:
I tried the rice sock method, and found it to be too much of a hassle as well as really not liking having no precise control of the heat.

Heating pads I never tried. Too cumbersome for me. I like things simple. Once I found the Soma Care system, I fell in love with how easy it is to use.
Click to expand...

What is the soma care system? I looked it up on Amazon and it seems to be some sort of hot/cold pad which you can put in the freezer or heating it up on the stove?

How do you control temperature with it? Is it powered by electricity?

What I need is a system which doesn’t emit Electro-Magnetic-Waves because these frequencies are very damaging to your testosterone and testicles.... Also it has to have a temperature control system and I need the constant heat at 43 degrees Celsius and not higher in order to stay flexible during hanging.

Therapeutic heat: ideal heat should be 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C). 45°C and up causes tissue death, below this and the connective tissue will not behave like we want it to in the stretch.
 
longstretch said:
MosRed isn't really a heating device, it's red light and near infrared therapy. The far infrared lamps are usually the ones that heat. I'll cover more to come.

I highly recommend ultrasound but I'll warn everyone right now you can really damage yourself with it and it should be thoroughly researched and only used for like 10 to 20 min. Microwaveble clay heat packs work too. Infrared works but must be held close to penis and can cause burns. I keep my balls in my boxers and pull penis through pee hole.
Click to expand...

What I need is a system which doesn’t emit Electro-Magnetic-Waves because these frequencies are very damaging to your testosterone and testicles.... Also it has to have a temperature control system and I need the constant heat at 43 degrees Celsius and not higher in order to stay flexible during hanging sets.

Like you said: “Therapeutic heat: ideal heat should be 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C). 45°C and up causes tissue death, below this and the connective tissue will not behave like we want it to in the stretch.”

Does a device with these specifications even exist?

I want the easiness of plug & play powered by electricity, but I don’t want the electro magnetic waves for hours and hours in my groin area. And applying the heat at no more than 43 degrees Celsius for good stretching abilities during my hanging sessions...

If one could develop a heating pad like this... l would definitely pay SERIOUS money for that kind of heating pad because that will speed up gains like crazy! A safe constant deep tissue tunica heating source at a constant temperature with no hassles during my hanging hours all day long.... Perfect!
 
I'll discuss in my next part on heat. Should have that part done by tomorrow or Tuesday. A therapeutic ultrasound might be perfect for you, they are pricey and like I said need to be researched otherwise you could harm yourself. Also you might want to look into infrared heating pads some might provide what you're looking for
 
DutchAthletic92 said:
What is the soma care system? I looked it up on Amazon and it seems to be some sort of hot/cold pad which you can put in the freezer or heating it up on the stove?

How do you control temperature with it? Is it powered by electricity?
Click to expand...

It is a self contained heating system. You may use it for cold therapy as well, but heat is where is shines. There is no control over temperature, other than wrapping it in layers with cloth to dull the heat. I go pack to skin with no issue.

It contains some sort of liquid science, and when you bend this metal disc that is suspended within, chemistry happens and it starts to activate, changing the liquid. It's a trip..

For me, it is far better than the sock because the extremity does not fluctuate. The sock can either be too hot, or not nearly hot enough. Too many variables, such as thickness and type of sock, how much rice is contained, time in microwave, wattage of said microwave, etc.

When my collection of packs has been used, I just throw them all in a big pot full of water, boil for 20min, and they are ready to go again. Just easier for me. ? Plus, I can wrap them around my Johnson and pull if I want to do some heated stretching, LOL .

You may see the product, and how I utilize it, starting here when I first scooped it up as a promotional deal.

You can speed through the thread to see how I utilize it, and my thoughts on the benefits....

Blessings....
 
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I think we should look into making some of this equipment ourselves. It seems like the ultrasound is working and now this new self contained heating system are things that would definitely benefit us. @Lightning
 
All good information. I used to train with decon periods years ago, so I fully get it.

I've never been one for day in day out training. I used very intense, shorter sessions. They worked, however, looking back, I was too intense.

This is allot easier then it seems, with the core enemy being the practitioner themselves.

I'm going to start again in a week once back in the UK, and will be using just wet jelqs at high erection with a good stretch applied at the end.

I gained well with them at the start in 2001 and I haven't done a penis enlargement routine in over 9 years, which means my body has no clue, and will adapt to the stress with growth.

The heat principle is important. I understand you don't warm up, but for those of us in colder climates I believe it works, as right now in a VERY hot country, my erections are large, solid, hanging great compared to them being more negative back home.

Thinking of getting a ultrasound device, but until then I will warm up with hot water, and I'm thinking of heating the lubrication up that I jelq with.

What about after a session, wrapping some tin foil or alternative around the shaft while heated and keep it extended for x amount of time.
 
Fillerup said:
Well, you're in bit of a predicament for sure. On a positive note, there's a lot of guys out there that have made significant gains without ever applying heat. Probably the majority. Even the studies surrounding the PF, various extenders ets. make no mention of using heat. I have seen your determination and commitment, and have little doubt you will successful, with or without applying heat.
Click to expand...

Very good point
 
I would use a space heater for those in colder climates to heat the area of the room you'll be doing PE. That's what I do during the winter months. I've got a few studies collected and am drawing the same conclusions from them. I have tomorrow off work so it'll come soon. After that I'll update this thread with any further thoughts and provide any clarifications. I recommend everyone to review any outside links, studies or videos multiple times. I know I didn't understand them well enough with the first pass. Particularly pay attention to viscous nature of connective tissue
 
I would like to see a control group use your theories for 6 months and come back to give results. This would be the "proof in the pudding" if you will on if the concepts work for everyone or just some. :)

I'm saying this because of the whole Janus coming out of nowhere with his wild theories yet no test group.
 
People did test Janus' theories but his hypotheses on why his exercises worked were flawed and he quickly plunged into quackery. Though I will say for me at least I have noticed improvements with what little AM I have done so far. I would love to see an experiment set up. I participated in one back in the day, Babbis', and I think for us to get really advanced in our techniques that's the route we need to explore. Excellent idea!

I will say this there are a handful of guys at another forum that have read the same threads and have developed pretty similar techniques in their routines. Each guy has been tweaking his own routine and discussing variables with each other. The results have been fantastic. Of course some of the numbers I discuss here could be changed with a bigger population participating. That and the knowledge I wanted to impart were the reasons for starting this thread.
 
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longstretch said:
People did test Janus' theories but his hypotheses on why his exercises worked were flawed and he quickly plunged into quackery. Though I will say for me at least I have noticed improvements with what little AM I have done so far. I would love to see an experiment set up. I participated in one back in the day, Babbis', and I think for us to get really advanced in our techniques that's the route we need to explore. Excellent idea!

I will say this there are a handful of guys at another forum that have read the same threads and have developed pretty similar techniques in their routines. Each guy has been tweaking his own routine and discussing variables with each other. The results have been fantastic. Of course some of the numbers I discuss here could be changed with a bigger population participating. That and the knowledge I wanted to impart were the reasons for starting this thread.
Click to expand...

??
 
3.) Therapeutic Heat: Part A, Basics
Before we dive in head first I will suggest if you haven't read all the links, studies and videos posted so far that you do so. It's imperative you have a basic understanding of what connective tissues is made of, how it's repaired and remodeled, it's viscoelastic properties and have a general understanding of the stress-strain curve. I'm going to start weaving this shit together.

The first study I have is probably the most important in terms of understanding why heat matters. Written by hand surgeons and sums up pretty nicely things so I don't have to. It's labeled here as "hardy1998" at the end of this post. Please thoroughly digest this now. Please note some things won't apply when trying to elongate a penis, though many things do.

Did you read it? All of it? Let me quote some good parts now.

A great overview of the basic anatomy of connective tissues.
Connective tissue requires motion to maintainits structural integrity. Motion, with itsdemands for tissue elongation, shortening, and support, creates the necessary stresses for normal fiber biology. Biologic tissues respond to these stress signals by changing their collagen matrix to meet the functional demands of motion.

The connective tissue matrix is made up of structural fibers such as collagen, elastin, and fibrin, which are held together by chemical bonds and a fluid ground substance. The weave or alignment of these structural fibers can be classified as either dense or loose packed. Dense connective tissue that functions to support or limit motion, such as bone, ligament, and tendons, has parallel, tightly aligned fibers. When tension is applied to dense connective tissue, there is initial lengthening until all slack has been taken up, followed by gradual stretch or elongation, after which fiber disruption occurs. Conversely, loose connective tissue, such as that found in joint capsules, muscle, fascia, and skin, contributes to flexibility through its random fiber orientation. This loose weave allows great lengthening without tension buildup until all the fibers have been essentially straightened.

Both types of tissues, dense and loose, have a filler gel that acts to separate and lubricate the collagen fibers. This mucopolysaccharide gel combined with water forms a ground substance that varies from low concentration in dense tissue to high concentration in loose tissue. The two factors of fiber orientation and ground substance ratio, although unique to each tissue, are very dynamic and can be rapidly altered by immobilization or scar formation.
Click to expand...

Here it's discussed why when we stretch or apply a load to the penis we want to do it slowly. This will further help us with our elongation goal. Also to mimic nature a lower load seems to be more beneficial to growth.
Velocity of Stress
Connective tissue has a high resistance to any sudden application of stress. This protective function of restraining tissues allows the intense muscular activity of work and play without joint disruption. O Van Brocklin showed that this protective viscoelastic property of dense connective tissue can be overcome by the rate at which stress is applied. In his study, tendons subjected to rapid rates of stress elongated 3% compared with 5% gains with low-velocity stress.
Amount of Stress
The yield of soft tissues is inversely related to the amount of force applied. The work of Warren et al. showed ironically that decreasing a load on tendons by one half results in a threefold increase in length. It is hypothesized that our tissues have adapted to resist heavy loads but do not recognize low levels of force as pathologic. This may explain how the minimal forces of wound contraction, spasticity, and scarring can result in significant tissue
aberrations over time. We too, then, must mimic nature by using therapeutic stresses of low load to achieve positive rather than pathologic tissue changes.
Duration of Stress
The length of time that stress is applied to a tissue in one session or in a given period of time defines duration. Tissue subjected to cyclic, intermittent stress of 15 minutes on, 15 minutes off when studied in vitro showed a slow but steady increase in elongation with less recovery back to the resting length (Figure 3). These findings were duplicated clinically in vivo by Rizk et al. who applied intermittent shoulder traction (15 minutes on, 5 minutes off for two hours') to patients with adhesive capsulitis. Continuous passive motion devices, used from two to eight hows daily on contracted tissues, have been shown to be an effective means of providing cyclic, intermittent stress.

In most clinical studies of duration of stress, one session of prolonged-duration stress is used, varying from 15 to 20 minutes up to one hour. Gains can be maximized when the stretched tissues are then held at their new lengthened end range for at least one hour by means of splints.
Click to expand...

25% increase in elongation when heat and stretch are applied together! That's huge. It's also discussed why applying ice will be counter to our goals. You'd really only want to use ice if you over did things. Heat breaks the bonds in the collagen leading to more elongation, provides a protective response meaning the penis will be less damaged from same weight and will elicit a more pronounced collagen response (proliferation aka gains). Its my understanding that you'd really only want to use heat during stretch for best results and can in effect skip a warmup, especially if using ultrasound heat and able to enter the therapeutic range. Use of ultrasound heat has been shown to be ideal... currently.
THERMAL FACTORS
The decision whether to use heat or cold to restore tissue mobility depends on two factors: 1) the wound healing stage and 2) the cause of restriction. Although cold is the modality of choice for inflammatory states, it causes increased tissue viscosity
with resistance to motion. Mild heating of tissues increases blood flow and metabolic rate, whereas more vigorous heating causes dimensional changes in the collagen molecule.33 Because the immature, formed collagen bonds are heat soluble, elevating the tissue temperature will denature the bonds and allow more tissue extensibility.

Heat
There is a normal gradient of tissue temperature found in the body. The surface temperature of skin is 30°C, muscle is 35°C, ligament 36°C, and intra- articular 32°C.69 It is of interest that intra-articular temperatures are lower than body temperature, as cartilage destruction occurs with prolonged high temperatures. 70 In order to affect any physiologic changes in these tissues, it is necessary to raise their temperatures above 40°C71 and deliver this heat to the correct tissue depth. Factors in the choice and application of heat are reviewed.

Tissue Temperature Changes
As collagen tissue temperature exceeds 40°C, there is a 25% increase in potential elongation14 (Figure 4). Warren et aLso found that elevating tendon temperature to 45°C allowed optimal stretching without damage.

Types of Heat
The most important variable to consider in choosing a modality for administering heat is the depth of temperature penetration required to reach the restricted tissue. Borrell et aF3 point out that given the small volume of the hand, most superficial heat modalities provide adequate depth of heat penetration and have the advantage of covering a larger area than focused deep-heat modalities such as ultrasound (Figure 5).

Heat and Stretch
In an enlightening in vitro study by Rigby/3 it was discovered that tendons on stretch began to respond at temperatures lower than 40°C compared with unstretched tendons, which were not structurally affected until much higher elevations of temperature. This finding implies that the simultaneous use of heat and stretch has a cumulative effect on collagen structural changes. Other investigators have confirmed that elevation of temperature results in an increased collagen response to stress
Click to expand...
More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch.
 
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3.) Therapeutic Heat: Part B, Heating with Ultrasound
Therapeutic range is 39.8-43°C (103.6 to 109.4°F). After 45°C you risk cellular death and below isn't going to get you the effect your after. A member at another site (manko007) did some experiments by placing a thermometer in his urethra and measuring common heat applications. US was able to get to those ranges quicker, maintain best and be the most comfortable.

Therapeutic ultrasound has been used for decades for physical therapy. It's using sound waves to heat up tissues deeper into muscle bellies and tendons. There are precautions like you have to keep the transducer moving because it can heat up bone and cause pain, don't go over spine or other major nerve pathways and no organs other than penis (heart, lung, liver, testicles, prostate, etc). It usually is found in 2 frequencies 1 mHz and 3 mHz.

1 mHz can heat deeper than 2.5-5.0 cm and 3 mHz can heat 0-2.5 cm. Theoretically 3 mHz is ideal but in practical terms both would work just fine. Both heat deep and won't cause skin burn with other methods of heat. If I apply it to my dorsal side I'll mainly feel the heat in the center and on other side of penis.

1 mHz option. Delta 1 mHz.

The 3 mHz option, also the one I currently have. Delta 3 mHz

The Science of Ultrasound Dosing
I personally keep my settings on 1.6-2.0 w/ cm^2 for 10 to 20 min. I've found that to be a safe range and still provide sufficient heating in 5 to 10 min.

Ultrasound now known to me to be the best thing for therapeutic heat around. It can be dangerous if abused so research and common sense need to be used. Far infrared heat lamps, heating pads (especially moist version), or other methods could be used as well with great effects. I just know that ultrasound will reach the therapeutic level quickly and consistently and has little risk if used properly. That means not too long, not to intense and only under a tensile load.

More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch.
 
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3.) Therapeutic Heat: Part C, Thermal Decay
Rate of Temperature Decay in Human Muscle Following 3 MHz Ultrasound: The Stretching Window Revealed

Down at the bottom of the link above you can download the study to read yourself. The penis being an appendage I'd imagine has an even quicker thermal decay than muscle.

You've now applied you're therapeutic heat WHILE BEING UNDER A TENSILE LOAD. You've pushed further up the stress-strain curve and have signaled to some cells it's time to proliferate. But hold on while those fibers have just begun to orient along the axial plane you've put stress and thr heat has "thinned" the viscous nature of connective tissue in the penis it's time to cool it, naturally. The ECM will gradually become more viscous. As mentioned in Part A on heat, ice baths or additional cooling methods are unnecessary and counterproductive. Within 10 minutes the penis will be back to body temperature or even below.

During this 10 minutes it'll help our efforts to continue to stretch as it cools. This could mean 10-60 min in extender, another hanging set or like I do cyclical manual stretches (more on cyclical stretches and further gains on stress-strain curve later.

My goal is to add only slightly more stress and disrupt full creep recovery.

More to come stick around and learn with Longstretch.
 
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Alright here are the experiments by manko007. Since I can't post the links, again lame but won't push it, here it is.
manko007 said:
Alright, so I bought a kitchen thermometer with a 7” probe that can easily go through my urethra and here are the results that I got with IR (infra red) lamp and US (soundcare plus)
First, the IR lamp: (which I used for many sessions before I got the US)

T= temperature
0, 5, 10, 15 indicates time temp taken

Temperature in Fahrenheit as kitchen thermometer doesn’t support C.

IR lamp:
T0= 94
T5= 98
T10= 100
T15= 100

Notes: IR was held at aprox. 3-4 inches at first from target, then at 5-6 inches as the surface temperature of the skin was unbearably high. Not the case with the US.
Surprised to see only 100 was the max, since it feels insanely more hot than with the US. All this hot feeling is just my skin roasting though. Nothing being heated much inside.
Despite only getting to 100 I did obtain some gains when I was hanging so it is not a complete waste in my opinion

Cooldown:
T0= 100
T5= 98
T10= 97
T15= 96
T20= 95
T22= 94

Now for the ultrasound:

@ 3mhz 2.0cm^2 placing US ventrally (note that urethra is located ventrally, and I placed US ventrally, that is physically closest to where the tip of the thermometer would be)
T0= 94
T5= 103
T10= 107
T15= 110
Notes: I can reach 103 in just over 1 minute. Then depending on how fast you move the transducer, you can reach 105 and keep it there. 110 is very hard to attain and maintain at that level. The average temperature after 5minutes is 104-106 however.

Cooldown
T0= 110
T1= 100
T5= 100
T10= 96
T15=94
Notes: Cools down very fast from 110 to 100 in less than a minute

@ 3mhz 2.0cm^2 placing US dorsally (I wanted to test whether the temp would be the same if placed dorsally, that is the farthest from the urethra and from the tip of the thermometer)
T0= 91 (starting temp was lower since it started to rain and a cold breeze was flowing)
T5= 103
T10= 105
T13= 109
T15= 107
Notes: from t10 to t15 the temperature fluctuated, it wasn’t linear, that is because it’s a juggling act to keep the US moving, the shaft extended, enough US gel on, and writing down numbers, so naturally I can’t keep it straight 100% of the time, but the important thing is that 109 is the max I could get doing 100% of things right, and average temp was around 104-106. Another important note was that temperature was much more stable at 104 - 106 than when placed ventrally. When I placed the US ventrally, it was rather hard to keep a stable 105 average temp. However, dorsally it is much easier, but this could be because I had already undergone 15 min of US. Another guess is the wave propagates width wise at the end of the US spectrum, thus more wave area targets the tip of the thermometer, thus more stable. In contrast, placing it ventrally, the wave starts off as narrow as the area of the head of the transducer, so naturally there is much more area for error in placing the US as close as possible to the tip of the thermometer. Specially since the tip of the thermometer keeps sinking and moving around inside the urethra up and down as I used KY jelly to get it in there. Again, it’s quite a juggling act

Cooldown
T0= 107
T1= 100
T5= 97
T10= 96 (stopped here just for time sake, and the same as ventrally pretty much)

@ 1mhz 2.0cm^2 dorsally
T0= 93
T1= 97-98
T5= 103
T10= 105-106
T15= 104-108
Notes: By far my preferred setting as with the 3MHZ sometimes it can get too intense, it hurts, and sometimes pain does not equal temperature rising. Most stable setting to stay around 104-106.

Other observations:
I tried @ 1mhz 1.6cm^2 dorsally to see how as a proxy the US pro would fare since it is only $200 but the max temp I could get was 103. I held it for quite a while and it seemed to not budge past that. I didn’t test conclusively though since I had already spent so much time testing, about 2-3 hours of having a probe stuck up my urethra :)

Making sure the transducer area is in full contact with skin, that is 100% of the area, and pressing it harder than softer against the shaft, produces faster and greater temperature stability.

Not sure about the amount of gel but at times it seemed more gel was required when temp would start to slide down, and once reapplied it was easier to get back up to temperature.

Temperature fluctuates A LOT. As you can see in just 1 minute the temp goes back to 100. However, once you’ve reached 105 or more, and you remove the transducer, the temp goes down to say 102-103 but then upon reapplication of transducer, it takes about 5-10 seconds to reach 105 again.

Even at 110 the temperature of the skin is quite ambient, but one can feel as though whole shaft is a hot rod inside. 110 is completely bearable, but very hard to attain.

1 vs 3 mhz doesn’t seem to make much difference. What makes the difference is the intensity setting e.g. 2.0cm^2 power. As long as it’s at this setting the temperature can reach 103 to 109 easily in about 10min. With 3mhz it is slightly faster, but not necessary IMO.
Click to expand...
 
Here is another experiment performed by same guy. Monumental work!
manko007 said:
US warmup and cooldown charts and data table
So here it is the results of the temp test.
IR was excluded as it was hard to do it, but after 8min only managed 99 degrees
Temperatures are in Fahrenheit.
Charts are in 30sec intervals. But data table has up to 10 sec intervals.
Data table has important notes that explain some temperature fluctuations.
Caveats:
-IR test was done first for 8 min
-1mhz test was done second
-3mhz test was done third and last
-test was done over a non pre heated rice sock. sock is part of girls stocking
Personal takeaways:
-3mhz ramp up was much faster than 1mhz. In 3min already reach 108 degrees, which is 42 celcius
-3mhz was much more stable than 1mhz this time
-1mhz was much more variable, specially when reapplying gel, moving side excess gel to center, and turning thermometer back on, lost temp fast, but regained fast
-I could feel thermometer tip inside urethra heating up and almost burning against inside wall
-1mhz cooldown slower than 3mhz it looks like, but also starting temp at cooldown for 1mhz was higher than 3mhz
-only 1mhz reached 110.6 peak temp recorded for about 5-10 secs. highest temp with 3mhz was 108 around.
Ill post a summary statistics for both warm up and cooldown as well after this post.
The most important thing I realized was the concentric circle is the only way to get to 108 degrees around. If you start to swing the transducer over a larger area, then this goes down by a couple degrees. More so with 1mhz than with 3mhz. Once reapplying transducer recovering 108 takes a while.
So in my experience with this I would say keep your circles very small. Speed of circle doesn’t matter much. So if you target the cord, you have to target in segments 1 at a time. Can’t be swinging this thing around because the temp will go down a lot as data table shows.
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Chart of the comparison of 1 mHz and 3 mHz ultrasound.
View attachment 1824122

The thermal decay.
View attachment 1824123

The play by play of the experiment.
View attachment 1824124
 
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The previous 2 posts were from a guy that was brave enough to place a sterile thermometer up his urethra while he compared different forms of heat and recorded the heat up and cool down between the ultrasound and far infrared heat. This was both very brave and monumental to my understanding of heat and what would be the ideal form of heat. I'm done for now. I'll welcome discussion. Read the studies and links posted, reflect and draw your own conclusions. I'll post more info, next will probably be cyclical stretches (manual work or even cyclical hanging sets).

My current routine is a mirror copy of Kypra at another forum with my own spin. After reading similar threads and drawing similar conclusions our routines were similar, though he started this line of thinking before me. We both continued to tweak it and I noticed I started getting better results when I left my cyclical stretches in and followed more in line with his reasoning and was able to drop my workload and time commitment with the same results if not better, because again using BPSFL as a roadmap. Now my routine is right at an hour, takes about an hour and 20 min to fully complete. I do 1-2 on with 1-2 off depending on schedule. My ideal would be 2-3 on and 1 day off. I'm a nurse so schedule is crazy. These numbers don't have to be set in stone.

Current Routine
30 min extender using stress relaxation every 5 min, increasing tension slightly every 5 min
20 min hanging with heat, I do fulcrum hanging with ultrasound heat
10 min cyclical stretches (15 second build up into stretch, 15 second max tension, 15 seconds rest)

Other routines will work as well but try to start incorporating these principles. Take a look at my log starting on page 50 for recent breakthroughs.
 
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