How much dairy?

[BDS]

Hi guys.

I was reading the vegan-thread, and the topic of dairy came up. How much dairy does one need to take daily? I cut down a lot on dairy since March, because I wanted to get rid of my excess weight. Of course, I didn't lose the weight solely because of cutting down dairy.. I ate smaller meals and had snacks in between too. But, how much dairy is necessary? I eat a bowl of corn flakes usually every morning, should that cover my daily need?

I have noticed pain in my hips and ankles when walking quickly for about 45-60 minutes.. I don't know if that has anything to do with me cutting down on milk or just being out of shape. >.< (I think I lost most of my weight from eating better)

 

[Shafty]

Hey BDS,
you actually don't need to cut down on the dairy much at all. At least if you use non fat dairy products. I eat a lot of quark cheese ('kvark' in Swedish... it's the number 1 bodybuilder's food!) and yoghurt daily, regardless of whether I'm bulking or cutting up. Kvark naturally has no sugar and almost zero fat, and the yoghurt is the same.
I suggest you mainly concentrate on eliminating ALL simple carbs from your diet. Try and opt for plenty of veggies, fruits and "good" carbs instead. Try and cut down on animal fats, too, and instead consume unsaturated fats such as flax- or rapeseed oil. Also if you are REALLY serious about losing bodyfat, then the cornflakes gotta go homeboy! They are a relatively nutrition poor, high GI source of carbs. The same goes for most cereal brands out there. In fact, even these so-called 'healthy choice' cereals have massive sugar content. Just check the nutrition lable in the back, and you might be surprised.
I'd suggest a good source of carbs in the morning: oatmeal, or maybe a few slices of either rye or wholegrain bread. You can actually make oatmeal taste good by spicing it up with some yoghurt, cinnamon and artificial sweetener. And, if you want to get creative, mix in some fruits or berries.
Another nice breakfast item would be a cup of hot cocoa. Use dark, unsugared cocoa powder mixed with an artificial sweetener and skim milk, and you have a healthy yet tasty serving of protein. A cup of around 3 dl amounts to 10 grams (of protein, that is).

Just a few suggestions. If you need any more detailed information, don't hesitate to ask!

Oh yeah, and regarding your ankle/hip problem: I also get that sometimes when I'm jogging. I wish I knew what it's English name is, but alas, I only know the Finnish one. Anyway, since you understand Finnish, it is "penikkatauti". I'm not sure if you've heard that word.
Contrary to what the name might have you believe, it's not really a disease of any sort. It is a condition where your calves get strained out and the pain radiates to your ankle and possible even to your hips. It's nothing to be worried about, but I would advise you to take it easy if it becomes a sharp, stinging pain. It should lessen the more accustomed your legs get to regular walking/jogging.

 

[arawndark]

2% Milk actually contains very nearly the ideal fat / carb / protein ratio for lean muscle gain. You can use an equal caloric value of milk as a meal replacement in a bind. Of course the above information doesn't mean a whole lot if you aren't lifting weights

To answer how much dairy you NEED... you don't need ANY if you are getting the calcium and vitamins (fortified milk) from other sources.

 

[Ulcasterdropout]

I like skim milk...

 

[Stuff_]

The trick to it is, to drink warm milk, not cold milk. Cold milk is a western thing, and it can be bad for digestion, can cause phlem build-up, and isn't absorbed by the body optimally. Warm milk on the other hand aids digestion, reduces phlem, and is absorbed by the body better and faster than any other food product. Warm milk is best either after you wake, or before you go to bed. Whole milk is best for it, but if you prefer you can also use 2%. It tastes better with whole milk and the fat isn't as much of a problem when taken warm. You may not like the taste of plain warm milk, so add some spices to it (not chocolate, though). Spices that work good are honey, cinnamon (preferably in stick form), nutmeg, sugar, ginger, cardamom, and clove. These spices are best used whole and then strained out, don't use too much of each except maybe honey, cinnamon, and sugar or it may not turn out that good. Never warm milk in a microwave, that kills it's nutrition, use the stove. I hope that helps.

 

[Shafty]

But Stuff, the man is asking for dieting tips. Honey and sugar are DEFINITELY not good if you want to lose bodyfat (even in small amounts)...
and it really doesn't make any difference in the world whether you drink it cold, hot or microwaved for that matter. The nutritional value is exactly the same.

You do realize that you were very strictly against animal fats of any kind in Jason's 'Going Vegan' thread, and now you are advocating the use of whole milk that contains, surprise surprise, milk fat. Milk fat is no better for your body than animal fat in the sense that it raises your bad cholesterol and clogs up your arteries. You aren't making a shred of sense in your posts. I'm sorry if I offend you by saying this, but that's how it is.

 

[BDS]

Thanks for all the advice guys!

Hehe Shafty, you can actually make oatmeal (puke) taste good? I think I'll go for bread instead. Luckily these days you can find good Finnish bread in stores here in Sweden. =) I have already lost a lot of weight with what I'm doing now (gone from 106.5 kg to 93.5 kgs), but it has stagnated now and I still have a long way to go before my love handles have disappeared completely. Then again, I have been cheating... been depressed for various reasons, so I found myself eating more than I need (comfort eating, I'm aware of that I'm doing it). So I should quit the corn flakes? Oh well, they really don't taste that good, and I find myself very hungry not long after. I'll go with bread.

Need to find that motivation. I don't have the motivation to Penis Enlargement anymore, even though I know it works. I don't exercise. I'm just so frustrated.. I keep saying that once I get a job (which seems an impossibility) and a place of my own, life will get better. I'm so sick of having no money and being forced to live at home with my parents... Finnish diet, a lot of sausages. >.<

If I can get off my ass and exercise, that could probably make me feel better. I can't afford a gym though, so I need to do some exercises I can do at home. Pushups are great, but I hate sit-ups/crunches cause I always seem to get neck/back-pain from them.

Urgh, sorry for being such a whiner. >.<

 

[Shafty]

I feel ya, BDS! <
I can relate to your frustrations... my studying is going to hell, and I have no one to thank for it except myself (I'm extremely poorly motivated as a student). It's like I'm going nowhere in life... and the fact that I realize my own potential yet fail to live up to it time and again makes it all into a vicious cycle. I have plenty of motivation for many things, but studying and "getting ahead in life" ain't in that category. Not at this time in life, anyway. Sometimes I just feel like a confused little child, totally lost in this world.

Bodybuilding is a good form of therapy for me.. and it is especially effective now in the wintertime. It gives me at least some sense of purpose, and the endorphin rush can be quite intoxicating. I need my endorphin high at steady intervals since I don't indulge in any drugs or alcohol. Just to alleviate the pain of getting through the day and having to deal with the fact that life, ultimately, has no purpose...

Alright, enough of the ranting. :O

 

[BDS]

Shafty dude, I understand how you feel. I feel the exact way sort of. I already am educated, but I keep re-experiencing that catch 22 that they don't want to hire someone with experience (and how does one get work experience without getting a job?). I regret the stuff I read (Bachelor of Science with specialization with Business Administration), even moreso now when the school has "gone out of business"... and I realized now that: "Man, business adminstration is fucking boring!". I'm "refreshing my knowledge" at a place (the employment centre ordered me to) and I'm so sick of accounting. >.< But three more weeks, then I get to learn drafting/CAD which is more fun, because at least it's creative. =)

Shafty, take a deep breath and think over your situation. You're only 20, don't do the same thing as I did, which was to get a degree I regret and a fat student loan to pay back! I feel ya brother, hang in there! Glad you get your fix from body building. =) What are you studying BTW?

Anyway, to avoid this thread being moved to the Deep Thoughs-section... does anyone have good home exercises one can do? As cheap as possible. ;-) I did buy those cables (rubber band thingies) but then realized that I don't really have any place to hook them to. I also have an exercise bike, which hasn't seen some action in a while.

 

[Stuff_]

But Stuff, the man is asking for dieting tips. Honey and sugar are DEFINITELY not good if you want to lose bodyfat (even in small amounts)...
and it really doesn't make any difference in the world whether you drink it cold, hot or microwaved for that matter. The nutritional value is exactly the same.

You do realize that you were very strictly against animal fats of any kind in Jason's 'Going Vegan' thread, and now you are advocating the use of whole milk that contains, surprise surprise, milk fat. Milk fat is no better for your body than animal fat in the sense that it raises your bad cholesterol and clogs up your arteries. You aren't making a shred of sense in your posts. I'm sorry if I offend you by saying this, but that's how it is.

:s ... I never said 'animal fats of any kind', but thanks for putting words in my mouth. I constantly advocated the use of milk. And it does make a difference whether it's cold, warm, or microwaved. That you cannot see the sense I make is because of biased views instilled by such things as the media. I'm vegetarian, I drink milk. It's what we do. If you want animal fat, get it from the humane source - milk. This is the civilzed way. Not to disrupt your conversing in this thread. Carry on...

 

[Shafty]

Oh boy... here we go again...
Look, the point is it doesn't matter whether or not you're drinking whole fat milk, eating cream cheese or sucking down pig fat- none is better than the other, which is a point you obviously cannot see because of your vegetarian blinders. I could spend hours upon hours lecturing you on the health effects of milk fat and other animal fats and clearly demonstrate that neither is better for your body, and you would disregard my conclusion, claiming that I've been mislead by the media. And, since you blame meat for all the ailments of western society, you should also realize that it's not the meat, but the artery clogging animal fats that are in it. So, even if you didn't directly oppose 'animal fats' of any kind, you were indirectly suggesting it. Milk fat goes into the same category.
I get most of my info from http://www.puBathmateedcentral.nih.gov/, which is one of the most reputable sources for factual info on nutrition and human biology on the web. If you can't accept their information as the truth, then I can't really help you.

One more thing: a little known 'secret' that most vegans are unaware of is that the 'health benefits' (if we forget all the detriments for a moment) they reap are largely based on the fact that they go from eating extremely unhealthy, highly processed foods (not JUST the meat) with a high caloric intake to eating a hypocaloric diet with no junk in it. They don't just remove the meat (which is, again, the least of the culprits); they eliminate all the processed snacks, sodas and other high preservative, high trans fat shit from their eating regimens along with their newfound "close-to-nature" eating ways. It is so easy to blame it all on the meat without realizing that the true reasons for high blood pressure (too much sodium from sodas and salty snacks), obesity (high GI carbs laced with trans fats) and lethargy (blood sugar roller coaster from eating at uneven intervals) can be found in completely different food items/habits.
It is also a fact (demonstrated with lab tests) that a chronic state of slight hypocaloric intake will prolong a person's life expectancy. It isn't nearly as important whether or not there is meat in there than it is how much you are eating. In that sense you are correct: vegans often eat below maintenace calories, thus living longer. However, it isn't because they have eliminated meat from their diets: it's because the human body will 'last longer' when it isn't overburdened by a constant assault on the digestive system by large quantities of food. You could just as well eat meat and veggies, but only small amounts of both daily, and live just as long. It's easy to fall prey to these tree huggers and their unhealthy diets which are based on beliefs that border on superstition and occultism. The science behind the whole matter is another story.

 

[Stuff_]

See, the thing is... the whole point behind it all that you're missing is that you can get it from a moral source such as milk, or an immoral, sinful source. That choice is up to you. The human body can withstand some meat intake, yes, but that is not the point.

[P.S. I'm not a vegan tree hugger, and I drink milk. Vegan is mentioned a lot by you, but vegetarian is what I speak of. And I'm very sorry for disrupting your thread, I think this debate should end before anyone leaves with hard feelings. I know Jason1 already has hard feelings and I hope that he feels better, but I do not wish to make anyone angry at me or anyone else. My utmost apologies for any offense I have given to you or anyone else, and I hope this does not affect our opinions of each other.]

 

[Shafty]

No hard feelings man! Seriously, I shouldn't have used that 'tree hugger' word in there... bad call. I didn't mean to say that you are one. I can't make such a judgement based on what you've said, since all we've been discussing is nutritional matters. And besides, I am quite the tree hugger myself when it comes to matters of conserving nature and preserving the planet.

I understand that you have a strong moral conviction behind your choices. I can respect that, as I am very much an animal lover also. I guess I'm guilty of turning a blind eye to the suffering animals have to endure in slaughterhouses, and that isn't morally correct of me. I'm pretty sure that if I ever had to witness what happens at slaughterhouses first hand, I'd also stop eating meat, regardless of whether it would deter my bodybuilding efforts.

You may have gotten the impression that I eat massive amounts of meat with gusto, but I really don't. I get most of my protein from dairy, protein powders and eggs. I do eat fish on occasion, and unfortunately, even chicken and red meat- but certainly not every day. I nostly only eat meat on special occasions, such as family gatherings, the holidays etc. I guess that doesn't make it any better, though... but I just wanted to clear up any possible misconceptions you might have gotten about me.

 

[DLD]

Hi guys.

I was reading the vegan-thread, and the topic of dairy came up. How much dairy does one need to take daily? I cut down a lot on dairy since March, because I wanted to get rid of my excess weight. Of course, I didn't lose the weight solely because of cutting down dairy.. I ate smaller meals and had snacks in between too. But, how much dairy is necessary? I eat a bowl of corn flakes usually every morning, should that cover my daily need?

I have noticed pain in my hips and ankles when walking quickly for about 45-60 minutes.. I don't know if that has anything to do with me cutting down on milk or just being out of shape. >.< (I think I lost most of my weight from eating better)

I get worried about this too because I am extremely lactose intolerant. I love dairy but it makes me very ill. I try to get it through my milk in my coffee and at night I will have some cheese (I pay for this in the morning but I crave dairy and I know my body needs it). I know I could take supplements but I prefer the real deal. The LACTAID pills work great for me but I have to take a whole bottle for them to work and their price is the cost of an average days meals.

 

[Stuff_]

DLD it's great that you mentioned this, for I have another way to get your dairy which involves no lactose.

Here's something from the Cabot web site's faq (a Vermont cheese company):

"All Cabot cheeses contain zero (0) grams of lactose. Eating any aged cheese should not affect those with lactose intolerance, regardless of how much is eaten, because lactose - the major carbohydrate of cheese - totally disappears within 3 to 4 weeks after the cheese is made."

Cheese is the most concentrated form of milk nutrition, and I highly reccomend this brand, it's tasty.

As a vegetarian, I can't eat most cheeses found in america because they contain chymosin (animal rennet), which is used to mass produce low quality 'cheese food product'. Real aged cheese is made with vegetable rennet though, and tastes much better!

Here's a link to their store finder, it's sold at most Walmart and Giant grocery stores if you're interested... try it out and see if it hurts your stomach the next day. Took me nearly two years to find a vegetarian cheese besides cream cheese, by the way. They only make cheddars but that's the best kind.

Edit: Man.. been up for around 28 hours and forgot to post the link. Getting a little tired... Store Finder

 

[bigbutnottoo]

See, the thing is... the whole point behind it all that you're missing is that you can get it from a moral source such as milk, or an immoral, sinful source. That choice is up to you. The human body can withstand some meat intake, yes, but that is not the point.

There is nothing really moral or immoral about food. Maybe you project your beliefs on it that way, but most people dont. Now if you bring up cannibals, thats another thing. its this kindof talk that makes me want to go grab some of the Hardees Monster Burgers and eat them in front of people it disgusts. i jsut wish we could leave the whole religious fanaticism out of real scientific based things like diet and exercise and well, LIFE for that matter.

 

[Stuff_]

We're not talking about food. We're talking about life and death. And how can you leave the science of God out of life? It is what defines life.

I, however, do not wish to offend anyone by my comments. If any offense is taken please, please just ignore it. I do not wish to cause anyone hard feelings.