Respecting Life

[Kal-el]

Why is it that no one respects life? Why is it that the nature of humanity is to always gravitate toward war, death, destruction, and chaos? Why do we hate ourselves so much that we would destroy our own species in ways so horrific and in numbers so large?

And why do we respond to violence with violence? Hatred creates more hatred. War brings war and violence brings more violence. It seems like violence is the only thing we understand. The idea of a peaceful resolution to conflicts is so far beyond us as a species that we can be nothing without war.

 

[thefranchise]

It's not so much humans that strive for this. It's the big power players at the top that call the shots and dictate what goes on in the world. They dictate when war begins and ends. They know the methods of brainwashing to get normal people to rally behind it as well. Mainly playing on their fears and exploit them to the fullest.

 

[Kal-el]

You can't prevent others who want to spread hate. What you can do, and can promote is teaching a respect for everybody's life. That every person has something to contribute to all of society.

What we Americans, and our society, is sadly missing is a respect for the cultures of others who occupy our planet. Beyond color, and beyond religion, we have failed to understand and respect the rights of our fellow humans to create their own destiny, and celebrate their own traditions.

We've lost sight of the fact that one dosen't have to be wealthy, or have alot of possesions to be happy...or to be important.

Tragically, not only have we lost respect for the rest of the world, we've lost it for us...

 

[Shithead]

I personally don't think that it's because human's are intrinsically violent or hate filled. I think its because human's arn't thoughtful enough, and consequently they only ever choose the 'quick-fixes'.

It's everywhere, people's weight is because of this (excluding those with a medical condition).
It's why the corrupt pop music corporation thrives.
It's why people think ANY war was justified.

It's because people do what they 'want' to do, not what they 'ought' to do.

 

[Shithead]

anyone read Kant's "The Metaphysics of Morals", it's sorta where im coming from in my last post, Kant is a genius philosopher, not perfect, but still genius.

 

[Kraft]

Some ranting:
I think it is very hard to teach respect for life when the majority of north american society is religious and concerned with an afterlife rather than this one. Wars and killing can be justified as "if we're wrong, God will sort them out anyway", "they're all going to hell anyway", etc. I'm sure people would find other reasons to 'justify' their actions without religion, but at least it would be honest, not disguised by the air of theological superiority.

Society wasn't always the way it is now, I don't think human evolution has caught up with culture. So, we have instincts that go against a stable society (fights or flight reactions for one), not to mention to mention things such as a taste for sweet food that go against our health. I'm not sure what the answer to the devaluation of life is. I think more than just education is needed, we need action and some way to encourage co-operation to lessen the US vs. THEM mentality.

Shithead: Funny, I have that book sitting on a shelf right in front of me... you can't get and 'is' from and 'ought'. I've covered some deontology, but haven't read much actual Kant.

 

[Kal-el]

Originally posted by Kraft:

I think it is very hard to teach respect for life when the majority of north american society is religious and concerned with an afterlife rather than this one. Wars and killing can be justified as "if we're wrong, God will sort them out anyway", "they're all going to hell anyway", etc. I'm sure people would find other reasons to 'justify' their actions without religion, but at least it would be honest, not disguised by the air of theological superiority.

You're absolutely right, I could'nt have said it better myself.

 

[sikdogg]

You can't prevent others who want to spread hate. What you can do, and can promote is teaching a respect for everybody's life. That every person has something to contribute to all of society.

What we Americans, and our society, is sadly missing is a respect for the cultures of others who occupy our planet. Beyond color, and beyond religion, we have failed to understand and respect the rights of our fellow humans to create their own destiny, and celebrate their own traditions.

We've lost sight of the fact that one dosen't have to be wealthy, or have alot of possesions to be happy...or to be important.

Tragically, not only have we lost respect for the rest of the world, we've lost it for us...

I agree that you can't prevent those that want to spread hate to do just that, so the real question is... what to do with those that contimue to spread hate?? Should we respect their belief and allow them to continue or should someone step in and do something about it?? If we step in, then we're hate and war mongers out to oppress a country or culture for expressing their beliefs, if we do nothing then we're allowing hate to propogate...

We Americans (as a whole) are very tolerant of other cultures as our own culture is built on diversity. No other country in the world is as diverse as the USA. From reading your last thread on the Current Administration [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ans[/words] Hitler Connection, you seem to have a very cynical perspective of the world and especially the US...

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Kraft]

Paraphrased from Richard Carrier: It will be quite difficult to stop the hate, as memes that are dominating and wish to conquer will outcompete those that wish for tolerance (memes are like genes in that they evolve, but they are ideas that are passed on). Similar to how the Muslim and Christian faiths conquered the more tolerant pagan and Persian religions of their time. Other memes such as humanism don't have the built in prostelatizing and condemning (and many times killing) those with alternate views. Unfortunately, viruses of the mind which are harmful to humanity are unlikely to disappear. This doesn't just apply to religions, other dogmas that are harmful such as Nazism, would be considered dangerous memes also. This talk of hate kind of reminds me of this flash link

Sikdogg: Though I haven't done any deep study of socialogy, the US is recognized as the melting pot, not as some multicultural ideal. You are accepted into the country but you become 'American', melted into the pot, along with the traditions you brought. Wow, now that's a cynical view

I would say people have the right to free speech, so as long as they are not imposing on the rights of others we have no business stepping in. Values over emotions, I would like them to stop, but I value their rights and am against censorship. "Your right to swing your fist ends where my face begins". How to properly deal with things and to make the reason for it clear is difficult. There are no easy answers, and to keep the actions in line with the goals is necessary. Can't just kill the preceived hatemongers, then proclaim that killing those with alternate views is wrong.

 

[Kal-el]

originally posted by sikdogg:

From reading your last thread on the Current Administration [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ans[/words] Hitler Connection, you seem to have a very cynical perspective of the world and especially the US...

I still believe that the US is the best country to live in, but I do discriminate our leader's actions. I like to think in the big picture- because the USA is only 5% of the world population, one has to be open-minded and think how 95% of the world thinks too.

 

[sikdogg]

...Sikdogg: Though I haven't done any deep study of socialogy, the US is recognized as the melting pot, not as some multicultural ideal. You are accepted into the country but you become 'American', melted into the pot, along with the traditions you brought. Wow, now that's a cynical view
....

Although the US is a melting pot, it is still very multi-cultural... just travel around the country and you will see for yourself. Most large metropolitan cities like SF, LA, and NY both are very culturally diverse and although there a few bigots, people generally respect each other's culture and beliefs. Here in LA, we have pockets of different cultures like little Tokyo, China town, Korea town, Alvera street (little Mexico), little Armenia, and the list goes on and on. These communities aren't being "Americanized", in fact just the opposite and they are appreciated for their diversity and are allowed to celebrate and demonstrate their own customs and traditions...

I believe that "Americanizaton" does exist within each community as the young become exposed to American customs, but there is no shortage of middle-aged and elderly immigrants that choose not to forgo their culture/heritage for the American way.

 

[TimBo755]

Its all about the hebraism and hellenistic views on life. Most people are hellenistic, thinking only of themselves. Hebraism is the way of thinking how it will effect/affect man and you make your decisions based on if its good for humanity or not. Everyone has been stuck with the hellenistic view since Alexander.. Sad but true.

 

[iwant8inches]

I agree that you can't prevent those that want to spread hate to do just that, so the real question is... what to do with those that contimue to spread hate?? Should we respect their belief and allow them to continue or should someone step in and do something about it?? If we step in, then we're hate and war mongers out to oppress a country or culture for expressing their beliefs, if we do nothing then we're allowing hate to propogate...

We Americans (as a whole) are very tolerant of other cultures as our own culture is built on diversity. No other country in the world is as diverse as the USA. From reading your last thread on the Current Administration [words=http://www.phallosan.com/shop/catalog/default.php?z=eNortjIxtVKyL0pNszWxMFcrSSxKTy2JL0hMT7U1UisoykyxtbBQSy4tLsnPjS8uKcrMS7dVsgZcMMpbEbo%2C]ans[/words] Hitler Connection, you seem to have a very cynical perspective of the world and especially the US...

Just my 2 cents...

We're very diverse and the majority probably aren't racist or sexist or bigots of any kind, but really it's only been how long since African Americans couldn't vote and were continuously oppressed. Gays can't marry and believe me there are still racist people out there and it isn't just the South. I'm sure some of us have seen Blood in the face and seen websites that are along the same line of thinking. We haven't even been a country that long for us to think that we're as accepting as we are diverse. I mean it's nice to think that everyone is just as adjusted or accepting of others culture, lifestyle, religion, or what have you, but seriously we're still nowhere near being as accepting and equal as we are diverse. Think of how far women have come and yet still are underpaid for most jobs where they do the same things men do. Think of how many African Americans are actually in the Senate, or in other high offices? Same question for women? There has to be a reason why this is. It can't be women or all minorities for this matter have just plum forgot to run for office. It's like that whole "a woman couldn't be President. I just can't imagine THAT!" There are quite a few Americans that feel that way. I hear young women say it and older ones.

BUT I feel what you're saying like I said we're not a majority of racists, or bigots or anything however as much that has been accomplished through the efforts and labor of the Americans we can be proud of have who fought for us let's not go overboard with this whole we're very tolerant of others. There are still too many black/Jew/mexican/non white hating people in this country for me. One of my bosses hates anyone who looks Arab or is dark skinned. I'm half Mexican and sometimes it feels like he's not sure how to talk to me. I'm constantly hearing him mutter something racist about people who aren't white. This is just my own experience in the south and even in the Midwest, but it just seems people hide it more now unless they are with people they feel they can trust or know. I agree though. Go America! We've come a long way. As for the question of Kal-el????Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Kraft]

Although the US is a melting pot, it is still very multi-cultural... just travel around the country and you will see for yourself. (...) These communities aren't being "Americanized", in fact just the opposite and they are appreciated for their diversity and are allowed to celebrate and demonstrate their own customs and traditions...

If I lived in the US I would probably see it more like you. I've been there a few times, guess I didn't pass through very diverse areas or explore enough. Glad to hear that the reputation isn't accurate.

 

[iwant8inches]

I'd say in the larger metropolis/cities there is definitely a lot of what sik is talking about, but this country is still regionalized.

 

[Rod Buster]

Some random thoughts- Poor, uneducated people (and stupid ones) are easily manipulated through fear. Fear is used to disguise aggression as self-preservation. Poverty breeds desperation ; desperation leads to irresponsibility. Political leaders advance their own agendas of personal enricHydromaxent and greed for more "power" by manipulating an ignorant citizenry into conflicts that they themselves are not endangered by. These tendencies are not specific to any religion, nationality or ethnicity.

 

[LambdaCalc]

Sterotypically speaking venture anyone in the Mid-west, Upper rural States, or South, if you want to find proof. Oh well. I personally recommend the South it shouldn't take you long.

Why would you recommend the South? You know we got dem big city type things down here doncha?

As far as respecting life goes, it's not something that can be taught or governed into society. If the human race survives long enough perhaps we will evolve enough to accept peace, but it's a matter of evolution not education. Nobody has the answer to Rodney King's question 'Why can't we all just get along' which has been a topic of every philosopher since day one. If we look at the world and humanity on one evolutionary scale, I think we will find we are very far away from peace.

This does not mean that we can not enjoy peace in our daily lives.

 

[Kal-el]

In my opinion nothing justifies violence, not even freedom. Ghandi is a great example, who through being prepared to fast to death had it been necessary, ousted the English from India. He chose love and self-sacrifice over violence. He said, "I will never raise my hand against anything alive and I will make the truth triumph without violence," and he succeded.

Those who use other means, (I am implying world powers who believe they are exemlary) go by this slogan, " we will punish violence with violence and solve the problems by sending bombs over the populations." It is definetly a sticky sort of logic because once we have started slipping down the slippery slope it is hard to stop. Once we have started, we must justify the unjustifiable: if we have killed so many civilians until now, then we must kill even more to justify that we were right, because stopping requires more wisdom than not starting in the first place. So we continue in the endless cycle of terrifying logic.

Violence never solves anything. Never. Violence leads to more violence. Once it starts, it dosen't stop, and when we step in and get involved, we are obligated to carry on even more.

Non-violence is far superior to violence and always wins. You have to be patient though. It's true that some people died defending this principle. The first Buddhists were killed , but Buddha's message still got through, The first Christians were fed to lions, but Jesus' message still got through. The first Muslims were persecuted, but the message of Muhammed still got through.

If our history books had been written right, they would include hudres of pages on Gandhi, Buddha, and Jesus and they would mention all the people who worked for peace, and only devote one page to the crimes of Napolean, Hitler, Julius Caesar and Attila the Hun. Unfortunately, these criminals are all portrayed by some as heroes, and their heroism is based on violence and only violence.

Using fear to bully someone into suBathmateission is the ideal definition of terrorism. Those in power are under the allusion that they can solve terrorism through violence.

 

[Bib]

Kal,

So you just sit back, allow a group to kill your all of your family and friends, and do nothing? Sheep to the slaughter?

I would prefer to die fighting, thanks.

Bigger

 

[Kal-el]

originally posted by Bib:

So you just sit back, allow a group to kill your all of your family and friends, and do nothing? Sheep to the slaughter?

Bib, in that case, you can render the attacker powerless, but executing them should always be a last resort. The first person that you kill in the name of a cause, contains the millions that can follow. For example- the first Jew killed by the Nazis contained the millions that followed. Its hard to stop at one. If we accept to kill one, then we can accept to kill another. There is no chance to restrict it to one, since if we killed one, why not two? And if two, why not four? And if four, why not eight? And if eight, why not millions?

Why not? It is the first one that we kill in the name of some cause who is most important.