PGE-1 Storage Questions

[spinner2]

Alright, I've got 5mg of PGE-1. I'm storing it in a vial in my freezer right now, as was directed in the chemical instructions.

I've been reading about reconstituting it online, and websites say I should inject within 24 hours of reconstituting it. Why is this?

Since I have no possibility of measuring 20mcg increments, which is what I will probably inject, what would you suggest I do?

 

[spinner2]

I found one study saying that in solution of pH ~ 7 that the pge-1 degraded to 76% concentration after 60 days. Not sure about what temperature the study was at, but storage in a freezer slows the degradation slightly. I also know that the degradation follows a logaritHydromaxic curve with r=0.99+ and that the solution will stay stable at over 3 months from another study.

I'll probably mix 1mg at a time in 12.5ml bacteriostatic water. Then plot the logaritHydromaxic curve, to modify my doseage over time. It'll be a little trial and error, but the minor doseage changes should be ok.

Hopefully this works out well

 

[spinner2]

Yes, I found another study saying that the concentration is 90% after 82 days at 4 degrees celsius! And 50% after 540 days. This means I should be able to mix 1 mg at a time and leave it in aqueous solution with only 1 doseage increment when my erections go down under 2 hours.

This makes everything so much easier for me rofl .

 

[stjohncock]

I have a bottle of quadmix from Boston Medical that has PGE1 as one of its constituents. The instructions say to keep it refrigerated but not to freeze. This is, of course, already reconstituted. The expiration date on the bottle is 6 months.

 

[spinner2]

I have a bottle of quadmix from Boston Medical that has PGE1 as one of its constituents. The instructions say to keep it refrigerated but not to freeze. This is, of course, already reconstituted. The expiration date on the bottle is 6 months.

Thanks for the reply. Chemical Penis Enlargement set to officially kick off as soon as I get a little more money for other ingredients.

 

[sikdogg]

Did any of the studies you read tell at what ph the PGE will remain stable in?? If you know this, then it's a simple matter of re-constituting it in the correct ph solution to keep it stable. This is what is done to kep IGF stable.

 

[spinner2]

Yes. Stability is best at pH 7. Studies have demonstrated stability at a wide range, though. I remember 10.4 as the upper bound, and somewhere around 3 as the lower bound.

 

[spinner2]

Another interesting thing I found was that PGE-1 degraded much more quickly in the presence of papavarine, which is a common trimix ingredient.

 

[EVO]

wow - very interesting. this was a problem i thought of if i bought a 5mg supply of PGE - 1. seems more sense to buy it like this since caverject you are wasting so much!! keep us posted on how you get on!
btw - what else are you going to mix in with it? igf?

 

[dogsdoodahs]

I got quadmix from BathmateG and I asked if I could freeze some.
They instructed me not to freeze it but to keep it at 4-6 degrees and it should be good for 6 months.

it contains
papaverine, clorapromazine, atropine, alprostadil

 

[dogsdoodahs]

I want to do an experiment because the amount of quadmix i have is going to last me well over 6 months and past the expiry date.

Even though BathmateG told me not to freeze it i want to see if when i use it what difference it makes.

I am going to freeze about 3ml. I have an small empty bottle. Will pouring in boiling water and emptying it out again be sufficient to sterilize it?
Can I then just pour in the quadmix and freeze it without worry of infecting myself when i thaw it out and inject it over the following few months?

 

[EVO]

boiling water is not sufficient enough to kill all pathogens. you could buy steralisation tablets?

 

[sikdogg]

Yes. Stability is best at pH 7. Studies have demonstrated stability at a wide range, though. I remember 10.4 as the upper bound, and somewhere around 3 as the lower bound.

Makes sense since the body's PH level is right around 7.5. That said, re-constituting it in an acetic acid solution like IGF-1 should keep it stable for extended periods of time.

 

[goldmember]

By freezing it, what method will you use to thaw it when it is time to inject?

SD,

Why would you say that acidic solution (acetic) would keep it stable for long periods of time? Why not pH 7.5?

 

[spinner2]

I have the 5mg of PGE-1 in my freezer, not solution. When I reconstitute it I'll just store it in my refrigerator, because it would be easier to deal with and would last long enough.

 

[goldmember]

I have the 5mg of PGE-1 in my freezer, not solution. When I reconstitute it I'll just store it in my refrigerator, because it would be easier to deal with and would last long enough.

Even the raw powder is perishable at room temperature? It would be wise to consider adding dessicant to the container of PGE-1 powder (not mixed, but in the same container, careful to keep separate). A vacuum seal would also be a good idea.

 

[sikdogg]

... Why would you say that acidic solution (acetic) would keep it stable for long periods of time? Why not pH 7.5?

I could be wrong but wouldn't diluting acetic acid to 100mM get the ph close to 7?? This is what's used for igf and since they are both human peptides, they should both require the same ph level.

 

[spinner2]

Even the raw powder is perishable at room temperature? It would be wise to consider adding dessicant to the container of PGE-1 powder (not mixed, but in the same container, careful to keep separate). A vacuum seal would also be a good idea.

It was carefully packed and sealed already. Well enough to be stable at least 2 years, according to the papers I got.

 

[goldmember]

I could be wrong but wouldn't diluting acetic acid to 100mM get the ph close to 7?? This is what's used for igf and since they are both human peptides, they should both require the same ph level.

Well, PGE-1 is not a peptide, although you could be right about diluting actetic acid, it might get fairly close to pH7 (about 6.8 or so). Would you suggest reconstituting the IGF-1 and PGE-1 together?

 

[dogsdoodahs]

boiling water is not sufficient enough to kill all pathogens. you could buy steralisation tablets?

in that casei am pleased i asked, cheers evo.
i'll scrap that idea.

 

[sikdogg]

Well, PGE-1 is not a peptide, although you could be right about diluting actetic acid, it might get fairly close to pH7 (about 6.8 or so). Would you suggest reconstituting the IGF-1 and PGE-1 together?

That's what i wanted to do... but if that won't work then i'll re-constitute them separately and draw in the same syringe just prior to injecting.

 

[goldmember]

That's what i wanted to do... but if that won't work then i'll re-constitute them separately and draw in the same syringe just prior to injecting.

That seems like the best thing to do.

 

[liquid1]

Where did you get the PGE-1 from? pm me please

 

[EVO]

if you had a 5mg vial of PGE-1, then would you reconstitute it all at the same time? with acetetic acid? how long would this last, say in the fridge?

also IGF-1 (which i would also use in IC injections), assuming you bought it in powder form, what would you use to reconstitute it? also ive read that IGF-1 doesnt last that long once mixed, so would you have to mix small amounts every day?

if you could reconstitute them both and draw into the same syringe, and both have a long shelf life - then that would be the ideal situation id look for. any ideas?

 

[sikdogg]

I would re-constitute them separately... IGF-1 in an acetic acid solution and PGE in Bacteriostatic Water. Draw them both up in the same syringe and inject. This allows you better control of dosages and the ability to increase or decrease one or both of the compounds.

IGF-1 can last for months if refridgerated and in an acetic acid solution. PGE-1 will last a few months if refridgerated. Both will begin to degrade soon after re-constitution but the degradation process is slow. Even if they degrade to 50% after a few months, there's still enough active ingredients to make it work...

 

[EVO]

ok thanks sikdogg. a few months supply of igf and pge1 wont actually be that expensive. so will prob start this soon... just have to get over the fear of needles!! anyone know where i can buy an auto-injector from?

 

[EVO]

damn edit button

any ideas on what concentrations to use? i would plan on doing about 20mcg of IGF, and then titrating the PGE-1. so do you think 50 mcg/ml? i might buy the PGE-1 by the mg - to give more room for mixing...

also, with acetic acid - how would you go about mixing it? surely you would need to test the pH, but what would you use to accurately measure the pH?

 

[sikdogg]

ok thanks sikdogg. a few months supply of igf and pge1 wont actually be that expensive. so will prob start this soon... just have to get over the fear of needles!! anyone know where i can buy an auto-injector from?

For IC injections, you will need to use insulin syringes... you can easily buy an auto injectors like Inject-ease. You place the loaded syringe in the unit and it will automatically do the initial poke, you just have to do the actual pushing of the plunger to inject. Trust me... it makes self-injecting a breeze.

 

[sikdogg]

damn edit button

any ideas on what concentrations to use? i would plan on doing about 20mcg of IGF, and then titrating the PGE-1. so do you think 50 mcg/ml? i might buy the PGE-1 by the mg - to give more room for mixing...

also, with acetic acid - how would you go about mixing it? surely you would need to test the pH, but what would you use to accurately measure the pH?

I would re-constitute at a concentration that is easy to work with to start... i would do it at 100mcg/ml. This makes dosing on a U-100 sytinge a no-brainer. If you want to inject 10mcg, you simply draw up .1ml

I can post an easy way of diluting and sterile filtering acetic acid for IGF if you're interested...

 

[EVO]

that would be great if you could!!
thanks!

 

[spinner2]

So the increments on u-100 syringes are .1ml at the smallest? Increments of 2.5mcg are necessary for PGE-1 titration, so in that case it seems like it would be better to dilute the PGE-1 to 25mcg/ml. With 100mcg/ml, the little bit of PGE-1 left in the syringe would make a big difference in erection time.

I remember caverject being something like 20mcg/ml.

 

[sikdogg]

So the increments on u-100 syringes are .1ml at the smallest? Increments of 2.5mcg are necessary for PGE-1 titration, so in that case it seems like it would be better to dilute the PGE-1 to 25mcg/ml. With 100mcg/ml, the little bit of PGE-1 left in the syringe would make a big difference in erection time.

Some 1cc u-100 syringes have .1cc divisions or tick marks but i think most have .2cc tick marks. I prefer using .3cc syringes as i can gte them with thinner needles (31g) and they have .1cc divisioons.

I remember caverject being something like 20mcg/ml.

It doesn't really matter what concentration you re-constitute at... it's the dosing that matters. The difference in concentration changes the volume you have to inject to get to a certain dose, nothing more.

 

[sikdogg]

that would be great if you could!!
thanks!

Here you go....

Originally Posted by RedBaron
Reconstituting IGF-1 with white vinegar
I have noticed several posts lately wondering about a good method for reconstituting IGF-1 and a few posts about using vinegar/water to do so. I originally wrote this post at anabolicmonsterz, but since there seems to be a reasonable interest here as well, I will post it for those that might be interested.

I began using this method many months ago ... mainly out of impatience. I was out of Benzyl Alcohol, and while I had access to HCl, it wasn't accessible when I wanted to begin my Long R3 IGF-1 cycle. I decided to use plain ol' grocery store Distilled White Vinegar. I used the following, which has worked out really well for me....and the feedback I have had from others that I have shared it with has been positive so far. So here it is for anyone that is interested:

The calculation:
Distilled white vinegar is supposed to be standardized to ~5% acetic acid, which would make it 850mM. To get it to the recommended 100mM, you'd want 11.76% white vinegar (100mM/850mM = 11.76%). Since it would be almost impossible to draw out 11.76IU's, I round this to 12, which is certainly going to be close to our desired 100mM.

The filtering process:
I use off the shelf grocery store distilled white vinegar. In order to ensure safety, I filter it using .20u whatman filters. Here is the step by step for those that may not be familiar with filtering using whatmans. What you will want to have on hand before starting out is some sterile vials, some .20u whatman filters, some syringes and needles (I use a 10cc syringe, and .23 gauge 1" needles), and some alcohol swabs.

(1) First draw up about 10cc of the distilled white vinegar
(2) screw on the .20u whatman to the 10cc syringe (or whatever size you use)
(3) screw on a .23 gauge needle (or whatever size you decide to use)
(4) take your sterile vial, swab the top with alcohol, insert a needle for venting.
(5) Insert your syringe/whatman/needle apparatus and slowly push the 10cc's into the sterile vial.

Now you have safe vinegar to use for your reconstituting.

ALTERNATE METHOD - Alternately, you could simply mix your water and distilled white vinegar before filtering using about 7.5 parts of water per 1 part of distilled white vinegar. After mixing these together in this ratio, run the mixture through your .20u whatman as above. You will end up with a vial of dilutent this way that has the proper PH for use with your IGF-1.

Reconstituting:

How much water/vinegar you reconstitute with is going to somewhat depend on which LR3 IGF-1 you are using. Igtropin is shipped in 100mcg vials, which I usually reconstitute at 1ml(cc) per 100mcg vial (which will make the 10 mark on your insulin syringe = 10 mcgs). The gropep based IGF-1's are primarily shipped in 1mg vials, and I usually use 5ml for these (which will make the 10 mark on your insulin syringe = 20mcgs).
At any rate, what I do is:

(1) take an alcohol swab and swab the tops of my water, vinegar solution, and IGF-1 vials
(2) take a syringe with a 23 gauge, 1" needle and draw out .12 cc's of vinegar for the 100mcg vials or .60 cc's for the 1mg vials.
(3) next I take this syringe and draw out the water - .88cc's for 100mcg, 4.4cc's for the 1mg.

FOR ALTERNATE METHOD in lieu of steps (2) and (3) - Just draw out the desired amount of dilutent from your pre-mixed vial of
vinegar / water.

(4) next i poke the needle into the LR3 IGF-1 vial and dribble this solution down the side of the vial, avoid any direct spray on the lyophilized powder until all of the dilutent is in the vial
(5) using a gentle swirling motion, I reconstitute the powder.
(6) I stick the vial in the fridge and it is now ready for use.

Well, I think that about sums it up. Hope this helps anyone who may have been wondering about using vinegar to reconstitute. I would advise that if you end up using Igtropin, you seriously consider using this vinegar method. Igtropin and other dilutents such as BA do not get along well together at all.

RedBaron

 

[sikdogg]

You can also just buy the acetic acid pre-made at 100mM for cheap...

http://www.researchlabsupply.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=254

 

[EVO]

wow - awesome. thanks again sikdogg rofl

 

[goldmember]

Can insulin syringes be purchased without a prescription?

 

[sikdogg]

I do it all the time... in fact, i just placed an order for more. I will also be tryiing out a new automatic injector...

Autoject 2

 

[EVO]

does anyone know if taking pain killers like ibuprofen will affect the efficiency of PGE-1 treatment? i know it affects prostaglandins, but does it affect PGE-1? cheers if anyone knows

 

[goldmember]

does anyone know if taking pain killers like ibuprofen will affect the efficiency of PGE-1 treatment? i know it affects prostaglandins, but does it affect PGE-1? cheers if anyone knows

Anti-inflammatories block the formation of PG's by inhibiting the COX enzyme. since you are injecting the PGE-1, the NSAIDs should have no effect on it.

 

[EVO]

thanks gold. wasnt sure if they affected the synthesis or degradation. thanks

 

[spinner2]

I've got a follow up question to this, now. I know that quadmix is usually stored in a bottle with a rubber stopper, and you plunge the needle through the rubber stopper. Is this necessary for my own pge-1 mix, or can I just use a mason jar and forget about the stopper? Also where would I buy such a quadmix bottle if it turned out I needed it.

 

[sikdogg]

I've got a follow up question to this, now. I know that quadmix is usually stored in a bottle with a rubber stopper, and you plunge the needle through the rubber stopper. Is this necessary for my own pge-1 mix, or can I just use a mason jar and forget about the stopper? Also where would I buy such a quadmix bottle if it turned out I needed it.

Are you serious?? If what you have isn't in a sterile/sealed vial, DON'T USE IT!!!

 

[spinner2]

What I ordered is in a sterile, sealed vial. I'm just wondering about what kind of container I need for the PGE-1 mix.

 

[spinner2]

Ok, it looks like I need a sterile vial, solid rubber stopper to plunge the needle through, and then a cap over that. Anyone know the best places to find this stuff?

 

[spinner2]

OK, got everything and done with reconstitution. Reconstitution was a complete drag. PGE-1 came in a 2cc vial. Problem is it's not super soluble in bacteriostatic water, so I injected 1.5 cc water through the rubber stopper, then mixed until the water was saturated, and moved that saturated mix into my vial. Then I had to repeat that about 25 times before I had all my PGE-1 mixed up.

Unfortunately one of my two vials is starting to crack a bit, so I have to order an extra vial. Still happy to have reconstituted successfully and safely.

Tomorrow I get to learn how to inject myself. Now that's gonna be FUN rofl

 

[spinner2]

I've actually still got a few plastic vials laying around from the bacteriostatic water. Would I be OK moving the PGE-1 back to them, or should I buy some new vials?

 

[Smertrios]

I want to do an experiment because the amount of quadmix i have is going to last me well over 6 months and past the expiry date.

Even though BathmateG told me not to freeze it i want to see if when i use it what difference it makes.

I am going to freeze about 3ml. I have an small empty bottle. Will pouring in boiling water and emptying it out again be sufficient to sterilize it?
Can I then just pour in the quadmix and freeze it without worry of infecting myself when i thaw it out and inject it over the following few months?

Did you ever freeze then try to use the frozen PGE1 to see if it was still effective?