Election 2004 - Who will win?

[kausion_420]

Kerry does say what he thinks the people want to hear and what will get him more votes. Democrats usually do things from the inside out while Republicans from the outside in. Both parties have one main goal just very different ways of getting there. One side wants to achieve the order by conquest, the other by consent. A democrat president will do twice as much dirt as a republican president but because this dirt is done from the inside out noone really notices it.

 

[penguinsfan]

Don Matthews is absolutely correct, Ghost, and that is one of my main problems with the Democrat party. That is not the Republicans doing that. For one thing, nearly all the celebrities are liberals and every election year they come down out of Beverly Hills to the lower east side telling everybody how much better things will be with Carter/Mondale/Dukakis/Clinton/Gore/Kerry in office, but guess what... soon as the election is over, those people won't be caught dead in that part of town. The Democrats pull the ultimate "carrot and stick" gimmick on minorities. You would think at some point the poor, the black, they would catch on, like many of the Hispanics have caught on, and realize that the Democrats only love minorities in election years.

Living in Sweden, why do you dislike Bush so much... and more interesting, why do you think Kerry should be President of our country? I can't help but feel like you are basing your opinions on what you see on TV. Being a Texan, I had Bush as a Governor for 6 years and now as President for 4 years and he is a good man and a good leader. Not all of his policies are 100% in line with what I feel is right, but in our two-party system, we don't have a lot of choices. Kerry is a scary person. He says whatever he thinks he needs to say to get one more vote. The problem with that is I honestly don't know what this man REALLY believes.

Seriously GhosT_DoGG, your anti-Bush rhetoric really seems over the top, given that you don't even have to live with the man as your ruler. I mean, I could probably think of hundreds of things I disagree with, philosophically, from European leaders, but I have hundreds of things that are more important to spend my energy and focus on. What gives?

 

[copper_handshak]

I think that Europeans are influenced by what American celebrates say without considering the kind of people those musicians and actors really are. I know many of my fellow Americans are. Maybe those celebrates going to Europe and spitting venom and lies about our nation and its current President has convinced Ghost and many other Europeans to feel the way they feel.
I mean most of Ghost_Doggs other posts seem to come from an alright person. He parties, lives in a cool place, digs women...Maybe they dont get the facts about the two men, Bush and Kerry. Perhaps all their news is slanted towards Kerry. Its all so hard, ya know? Ive got to tell you though, musicians are fun, and actors are pretty, but those people are easily manipulated and want desperately to be liked. They say what they are told to say by handlers. They are tools, not free thinkers. I feel alot of the 'journalists' now days are just as bad.

 

[Shafty]

I don't want to speak on Ghost's behalf, but I doubt his anti-Bush streak stems from what influence certain Hollywood celebrities may have had on him. In my case, my distaste for the Bush administration has absolutely nothing to do with what any celeb has said. Personally I don't like Bush because he has, in my eyes, proven himself unfit to be in such a position of power time and again. He can't accept that he is just a human being who makes mistakes (which he also excels in- making mistakes, that is). His downright stubborn belief that he is on "God's mission" makes it impossible for anyone to hold him accountable for his mishaps. How can you argue or question someone who feels that he only needs to answer to the man upstairs? This particular quality puts Bush on the radical other end of the spectrum right along with Bin Laden. Bush just happens to believe in the Christian god, and the fact that he has the resources of the world's most powerful nation at his disposal means that he won't have to resort to such drastic measures as Bin Laden to get what he wants. I know some might argue that Bush is better than Kerry because he at least has a strong set of beliefs, but I just feel that the things he believes in are all wrong and self-serving. He is a greedy corporate oiled pig who also happens to think he is Jesus Reincarnated, on a crusade to save America from terrorism (which his exact actions help to fuel).

I feel that the longer Bush and the current administration is in charge, the more alienated the US will become from the rest of the world.

Low intelligence- at least for someone in his position + fundamental Christian beliefs (which should NOT be such a great influence in his desicion making... religion + politics is a notoriously bad mixture) + fuck-the-rest-of-the-world mindset + the president of America = DISASTER.

I don't really know exactly what kind of an impact Bush has had on the American economy in the large frame of things (if I were a rich Hummer driving American, I'd probably support him too, no matter how much I hated his agenda), but the impact he is having on the rest of the world is disasterous. I also don't know much about Kerry, but I know enough to be able to tell he would be a much better leader than Bush.

"He (Kerry) bends over backwards to please the public opinion". So what? At least he would listen to the people and not just drive the interests of the small elite.

My beliefs have probably been shaped somewhat by the years I spent in the Bay Area (which is, as far as I know, America's most liberal place), but I certainly haven't been swayed one way or the other by "leftist propaganda" such as Fahrenheit 9/11, any loud mouthed celebrities, or sources such as the New York Times. My mind has been made up a long time ago... I actually hated Bush since the very first day he stepped into office. I have also heard plenty of arguments that support Bush and what he is doing, but I have to say they have not been very convincing.

Anyway, I seldom have the incentive or time to waste bantering about politics, especially on a forum such as this. Let's make this an exception. I just wanted to correct anyone who might think that Hollywood celebs have an impact on shaping the views of Europeans in general, AND state a few reasons why I hate Bush while I'm at it.

I hope I managed to maintain at least a semi-neutral tone throughout this post. I have made some vile statements about Bush in the past, and I'm trying to see it doesn't happen again.

 

[GhosT_DoGG]

Well Texan, Because I don't live in the States, then sure i watch televison... CNN, red papers and such. But I still got my own eyes and mind to work that information out, don't I?=) From what I have seen, Bush havent really done anything good. He seems to be an actor, hiding benieth a mask. Only difference between him and a mentally ill person, that i find is that: The things he do, is automatically correct and legal. But a mentally desturbed person, then everything is morally wrong and all that. It's to much fuzz...
It should be a more regular person, who really knows what he/she is talking about. Not from the paper he/she was given.
Well Kerry isn't that normal, because he is pretty wealty and that sort of things.

The president candidates, Kerry and Bush does everything to make them look good right now. So they both are as bad liars. I still have my hopes up for Kerry, he seems more like a decent guy. Bush in the other hand, i dont like what i see. He has that evil aura. In the Gore vs. Bush election, I wanted Gore.

And why the hell cant there ever be an black president in America?
That racial things will never stop.

It seems like you have to have "known" parents, good education and all of that.
A regular person can run things as good or even better then these types.
The point is, they don't get no chance.



That with "stricly internal". What I ment by that was: What the people votes for doesnt count, it just seem so. But really I only think the politicians vote is the ones who are counted. And maybe the election has already settled a vinner before the actual voting. I think of this political things as a conspiracy.

But hey it's all conclusions, and widely guesses.

 

[penguinsfan]

I don't really have much time right now to respond, but my point was really not that you guys have an opinion on American politics, as you're entitled to, but that it amazes me how passionate and deep the anti-Bush sentiment is. I just don't see that same sentiment towards other leaders from us Americans. Just an observation.

Anyhow, while I disagree with Ghost and Shafty on the political scene, I have taken a liking to both of you personally and enjoy your presence on [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/join-now.html]MOS[/words].

 

[Spektrum]

Eh, republican, democrat, it doesnt matter. They're both evil parties.

Our system is screwed. Too much corruption among what many people are starting to call the 'bohemian club class'. In other words, the control class. It's basically the top .05% of wealthiest class.

Greed is also/has always been a major problem with amerika(misspelled on purpose, lol).

I don't agree with his teachings, but Karl Marx has never been wrong in the past when it comes to predicting what happens in powerful societies. The control class will eventually push the limits too far and there will be a revolution. It happened in France, Russia, and China and it will eventually happen here. Then we're all doomed to socialism for a while. Don't you love manipulation of power? lol

 

[Shafty]

...but that it amazes me how passionate and deep the anti-Bush sentiment is. I just don't see that same sentiment towards other leaders from us Americans. Just an observation.

Well, in my case I suppose it is because I have only recently become "politically aware", or in laymans terms, interested in politics. I don't have enough info on America's past leaders to be able to "lay down" judgement on any one of them. Funny though, I don't care much about Finnish politics; the scene in America is much more captivating to follow and observe.
Thanks BTW for pointing out that you still care to have us around, even though our political views are vastly different. You are obviously a very nice and intelligent person yourself, and I'm sure you have good reason to stand where you stand in your political viewpoints.

Interesting stuff by the way... I stumbled upon a Finnish website, "Varjovaalit", which translates to the "Shadow Election". It is a nationwide survey conducted to see which US candidate would get more votes if the Finnish people could vote for YOUR president. Turns out Kerry would win by a large margin, 73% of all votes, with Bush getting the remaining 27%.

Oh yeah, and Spektrum, I have heard a lot of weird stuff about this "Bohemian Cult" in America. They supposedly worship a giant stone owl in the Redwood forests of California, and engage in various kinds of bizarre behavior, including homosexual activities and bestiality. :O This all sounds too outrageous to believe, but I would like to hear the opinion of an American who is more clued up on this stuff.