Screwed up big time...

Ok, this is going to be kinda long, and lots of yall are gonna be like "aww damn you blew it!", I know, I know, just help me out here...

Im 24, pretty inexperienced in the whole relationship thing, that was never my deal as I've been a loner most of my life. I never really put much effort into trying to hook up with one particular girl, normally I just let them make the moves. All that changed the day I met this 44, yes I said 44, year old chick that I work with. If you guys looked at her, youd guess 31-32, no shit, I've asked around. Absolutely gorgous, I woulda thought totally out of my league at one point. Plus shes cool as fuck, were into the same shit, music/movie wise. Seem to get along real well most of the time, but its starting to get weird. I'll explain further in a few minutes...

So I've been working with her for a little over 6 months, not close work, but I see her a few times a day to exchange paperwork etc. Over that time I was always friendly with her, we joked around, shit like that. Her mother was very ill and I always was very concerned with it, and was always there to talk with her about it. I asked her out a few times and she had declined saying that she didnt really want to be out in case something happened, she needed to be right there. Understandable. She called me one night to turn me down for a Penguins game (penguinsfan can help me out here ), and we ended up on the phone for like 3 hours, up until her cell died. After that, we exchanged a few emails, basically about her mother, and how much it meant to her that I was there for her. Well her mother died recently, and again, I talked to her on the phone, helped her out as best as I could, went to the funeral home, everything. She seemed genuinly happy that I was there. We talked just like we always did, as friends at work when she came back, not much changed. She told me she needed to get her oil changed, and it was a pain in the ass for her cuz she had to blah blah blah, so I offered to do it for her. Went over her house that night, changed the oil, met her kids (18,16), it was cool as fuck. Even drove around with her and her daughter (18) for a bit, and it wasnt uncomforatble at all. This was last Thursday. On Saturday, we went out, she wanted to get a new tattoo to kind of memorialize her mom, it was the fuckin best day. I felt so comfortable around her and we seemed to get along so good, walking around all day, talkin, got new tats, all that. Heres we it goes downhill...

That night, we decided to go have a drink or two at a local bar, so we did. It was goin great, we started talkin about sex, and shit like that, she was being real flirty with me, givin me certain looks etc. Then I ended up getting WASTED. This is when I fucked up. I remember asking her if she really knew how old I was, well, she did, she looked it up in the office at work (shes an office worker, I'm not). I asked her if that bothered her at all, she said nope. She even went on to tell me that her ex-hub was 10 years younger than her, and her parents had no problem with it and she just always seemed to be with younger people. Great right? Well it gets bad, quick. I was kinda out of if as in I dont remember everything exactly, but I know we had plans to go see my buddies band play tonight. During the convo, I know I asked her what she considered me, and she said a really good friend. (Backstory here is that I am totally smitten with this chick, no idea why, but I can see myself being with her years down the line.) I asked her if there was ever a chance of that changing, and she said "I just need some time." Etc. I fell apart at this as being how drunk I was I took it as rejection. I started in with the whole "I feel I have nothing to offer, blah blah, I know this is the wrong time wah wah." I totally bitched out, but believe me I was TRASHED. I got up, went outside, puked in a garbage can, lol, and just kinda leaned against a railing for I dunno how long. She came outside with 2 friends from inside (young guys, go figure) and asked if I was ok. I was like yeah im fine. So we were gonna leave, she was way less drunk than I was so I stumbled into my car, gave her the keys, she couldnt figure out how to move the seat up (its all electronic), so the 2 guys that were out there were like fuck it well take you guys home. I was stubborn and was like "nope, just go". She left with them, I was a dick and stayed there, slept in my car til the cops woke me up and then I left.

Well I tried to call/message her a couple times on Sunday, no response until late Sunday, saying "I wasnt blowing you off, my phone was off and charging cuz the battery died. You don't have to feel bad or worry about what happened. I'll see ya at work tmrw." I wanted to explain what the fuck happened, I'm on anti-depressants, I didnt eat all day, drank like 10 beers and then had 3 shots within a 2 hour time frame, I was gone. I waited til Tuesday, and I asked about Friday. You still wanna go Friday? "Yeah", she says. Cool. I also said "I really do wanna talk to you to so when you get a free couple of mines can I swing by and we can talk for a bit?" She says, "Look dont worry, it happens to everyone." And I said, "I still wanna explain a few things, so can you let me know when your not busy?" "I'll let ya know." Well she never did, no calls, no messages, no nothin. We still were friendly at work, talkin and jokin around like normal. Well so today is friday, I call up into the office and ask about tonight..and guess what? "Well, probably not, I don't feel good at all, this weather blah blah, maybe when the weather is.." I'm like "Ah its cool, no big deal."

It is a big deal. At least be honest and be like, I don't really wanna hang out with you anymore, you blew it. You guys have no idea how much I like and care for her. If anything, I want to go back to being friends and being able to hang out and talk like we did, but I feel I may have FUBAR'd the whole thing. Did I? Should I maybe email her, or play the "fuck it, I'm done with it" card? I don't really know what to do, I thought I was gonna be able to just move on with it, but I cant. I've lost 15 lbs since Saturday, from 204 to 189.5 today. I'm fuckin fallin apart here. I need you guys' help for real.

Wow sorry for wasting all your time...

My friend, you are not wasting anyone's time. It seems to me that you need to make an important decision. Me and you have a lot in common. I don't have much of a personal life, I never approach women or have relationships. I am a huge lone wolf. Please don't do what I do...I totally cut people off....mostly females who have either rejected me as more than a friend, or females that I know I can never be with. I try to kill my feelings for them completely, even if they still want to be my friend...I found this to be completely selfish. If you still want this woman to be a part of your life, it is never too late to make up whatever is holding you back. If you approach her with an open heart, and an open mind and tell her exactly how you felt, just like you told us, I am sure she will accept you back...she is mature after all so I'm sure she can understand. I should take my own advice though...hiding from someone who wants to be my friend but I wan't so much more...Anyway be easy and I hope the best.

Sorry to hear that you suffer so!!You must always remember that when it comes to women you must adapt the mindset that you are the prize!!!And if they want to be with you, they will have to come into your reality!You need to act like the alpha male, not the beta male!

Beta males are the ones that women make as good friends, the ones whom they call to do things for them etc., etc.Why??Because they know they have you!You will play there game, and do as they wish in hopes of gaining favour!Women are turned on to men,that they have to work for period!

If your a push over, you become the beta male(friend type guy).It's not impossible to change your status with her, but you will have to make her the one that is chasing you!Also if you do hang out with here, and you do intend to use tactics to change "who has the upper hand"........do not get drunk!

The conductor of an orchestra is never drunk is he?NO!, and nor should you!Warning !!!To be an alpha male, you will have to toughen up a bit inside(like taking rejection etc.,) and adapt a different mindset!I hope this helps a little!No guy should have to be pulled about like you have!!

Razed,
It seems drinking was the major issue with the first disaster. Since you guys are still very friendly at the workplace, I would invite her to an environment that is clear of alcohol. Try this... "Drinking isn't really my thing, maybe we can have dinner at my place, and go watch a play." If your place suck balls, change to dinner at (insert nice restaurant here). "oh razed your sooo sophisticated." She's 44 most likely she likes walks on the beach ect. She probably pretends to like to "go see your friends band" to fit in to your age group, but in reality prefers the finer things in life.

~BTC

I really appreiciate you guys taking the time to read all that and help out. Juggers, I know where your coming from because pretty much all day yesterday I tried to convice myself, "Fuck her, how dare she turn me down the day of the thing." etc, but that just didnt work. And yes BTC, everythign was going SOO well until I got drunk. When I say we spent the whole day together I'm talkin like 1 pm til like midnight.

Getting back to the whole alpha male thing, thats why I'm confused and don't want to email/call her again right now. If I keep asking her out, or chasing after her, doesnt that make me the beta? Should I just not do anything for a week or two and then make an approach again? Or should I wait for HER to make an approach?

I have no idea what to do...

PS - BTC, she actually DOES like that kind of music and going to shows, her car has cds all over it and we end up talking about music alot, which is why I thought it would be a good idea to go to that show last night. Wasnt like some hole in the wall place either, its a nice bar + grill downtown Pittsburgh. Do you think the rejection (I don't feel good, I'm really tired.) was bullshit? Or possibly legit? If it was legit, wouldnt she maybe try to contact me this weekend? Hrm...

Thanks guys.

Girthius :

Do you have any specific advice on ways to try to turn things around here? Without looking like a obsessed-desperate guy? I don't feel like giving up on this one yet, but I don't want to dig myself deeper.

My opinion is that she would not consider you as relationship material, due to your age gap.Here are a few things to look at from her point of view:

1.She has already done the wife, have kids, raise kids thingy!So she's not looking for this anymore.

2.She probably wants to have sex with you, but she worries about how she may be viewed by her piers.It is very important for a woman with a little class, not to appear as a slut infront of her friends etc.

3.You both work at the same place right?Many of frienships have ended due to a night of passion, or a short romance.The once friendly atmosphere at your job could turn into a very tense and uncomfortable place for both of you, (if something were to happen between you and it didn't last)!She has probably thought about this many times, which is another reason she hesitates with you.Once again she is also protecting her image at work!Nothing worse then a women getting a reputation as a slut at her job, and being talked about(as allot of young guys tend to brag about their conquest, not saying your like this).

4.She knows that your in the prime of your life, and that eventually you will want to settle down and create a family!She also knows that she will not be able to help you achieve this.So by staying distant, she is trying to protect you and also not start something with you that will take away your chances of having a family.

5.Women of her age love being sought after by younger men!It is a great ego boost, as a woman's ability to be a hot piece of merchandise decreases with age.

6.Her ideal relationship would most likely be a man of similar age and interest.Someone who may have kids, that are grown up!Someone that has his own house, and a good job, with his head screwed on right.Someone that doesn't work at her job, that way it will be more private for her.

After all this you still may have a chance, but you must accept that a relationship may be beyond reach.Relationships take allot of time and emotions, and women are very emotional creatures.You have to create the correct environment for her, if you want to succeed!

1.She needs someone that she can talk to......you do this!
2.She needs to be able to have fun and to have a laugh.......you provide this!
3.She needs a man that can do manly things like work on her car etc.,......you do this.
4.As for sex etc., she will only go for this if you can proove to her that you do not want a long term relationship, and that you only want to see her on ocassion.(but you must make her feel very special, and not some slut)This way she doesnt get emotionally involved, and it's not a threat to her space.She also needs to know that you will be discrete, and remain the same as you are now at your job(people pick up on this, and gossip is the end result)
5.A sure way to her affections is to get another job!Drastic I know, but I have seen it happen many times!

Girthius you are a huge help man, I appreciate all of this. Everything you just posted has made a huge difference in my outlook in this situation, and I understand all of it.

I think when she was flirty with me on Sat night, it was cuz she was a little drunk herself, I'm starting to realize that. The workplace thing makes it INCREDIBLY annoying, as I have to see her everyday, and I'm starting to see that from her point of view as well. As for the family thing, we actually talked about that, I explained to her that I'm not really looking for the whole family thing right now, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I also remember us talking about the fact that her kids are so old that they arent looking for a father figure, and she agreed 100 percent.

Again tho, your points were excellent and I hope they can help me get over this and move on.

Ok, despite popular belief......your first fuckup was not getting drunk.

I repeat.

Your first fucked up move was not getting drunk.

It was asking her what she thought of you / you and her relationship at that time.

Up to that moment, she had probably not OFFICIALLY categorized you in her brain / subconscious.
By categorize, i just mean the usual shit girls do...they sum up our entire meaning to them in a word or two:
--just friends
--good/reliable/close friend
--fuckbuddy/friend with benefits
--boyfriend material
--husband material
--one night stand materail
--etc.

So, back to asking her what she thinks of you. NO SELF RESPenis EnlargementCTING WOMEN WOULD TELL YOU TO YOUR FACE THAT YOU ARE HUSBAND / BOYFRIEND / OR EVEN FUCKABLE MATERIAL----the only 3 that involve sex.

This parallels the reason why if you actually get to a point where you have a fuckbuddy, you cant just call and say "hey wanna come over for sex?" you gotta say something, ANYTHING, but that. Tell her to come over to watch a movie, to study, to give you a massage, ANYTHING BUT DONT SAY COME OVER TO HAVE SEX. That one phrase will shoot her feelings down (along with her "emotional worth") so quickly, that you wont know what hit you.

I agree with the seasoned Penis Enlargement'ers above in that a marriage with this chick is OUT OF THE FUCKING QUESTION. You want someone to have kids with and grow old with, not die before you hit your middle aged crisis.

Also agree that she is concerned about a work-related relationship. Drama 95% of the time. AND THAT Penis EnlargementOPLE WILL THINK SHE IS A SLUT. You have to let her know (not buy telling her, but by SHOWING HER) that you are not going to let people know if you have a relationship with her. You do this by not gossiping with her. Dont spread rumors with her, etc.

Lastly, as pertains to this chick, is that IF YOU WANT TO GET HER BACK, YOUR ONLY CHANCE WILL BE TO NOT TALK TO HER FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS. Do not drop by her office to chat. Do not go talk to her at any break you have. You are at work....you are busy....you are a man on a mission....but if you see her in the hallway, give a nice big smile and say HI like nothing is the matter.

DO NOT PINE OVER THIS LIKE IT IS THE END OF THE WORLD. SHE WILL SEE RIGHT THROUGH THAT BETA MALE SHIT.
DO NOT APPOLOGIZE AGAIN FOR ANYTHING THAT HAPPenis EnlargementNED IN THE PAST WITH THIS CHICK.

You actually did good, getting her to talk about sex at the bar with you. It likely meant that she was horny, and 50 to 1 says she fucked one or both of those guys that took her home....unless you know their personalities to be different.
If you talk about sex a little, its good....do it in a flirty way. If you talk about sex too much you automatically become the close GAY GUY friend.

REad the DJ bible
Read some stuff about NLP (neuro-linguistic programming)

p.s. even if it is over with this chick, assimiilate and use this info for further relationships.

Good luck my friend.

UU

Dont know if anyone cares, but I have an update to this situation!

As I said, me and this chick have remained good friends at work, but I tottally backed off making any contact outside the workplace, and asking her out and what not. I still talked to her at work in a friendly way, but never TOO friendly ya know?

Guess who called me yesterday and asked if I wanted to go out? Haha yep, it was her. This was 2 weekends in a row that she contacted me now too, I guess that whole backing off and not seeming desperate shit works. We went out last night to see a band she really likes, had a couple drinks, bullshitted, and that was about it. It was nice, we had a good time, but there was no real flirtyness or nothin. At the end of the night when I dropped her off, I planned on just fuckin goin for it and grabbin her/kissing her and see what happens. She kinda put the kabash on that tho by being like "thanks alot for hangin out, I had fun." She put her arms out and was like "hug". Should I take that as a sign that she doesnt want anything mroe than a friendship or what? Is it a good idea to take it slow like this and not just try to fuck her everytime we go out?

PS. Upgrading Unit, your post was great and had lots of great points. You brought up about SHOWING her that I dont run my mouth about things, and that has happened. That actually happened last night, she was off work 2 days in a row sick, and I knew what was goin on and stuff, but I didnt tell anyone. She was kinda impressed it seemed that when she came back on Wednesday, she found out noone knew anything. I think she expected me to tell people what was goin on. Same thing about us goin out and hangin out. I don't tell the wrong people, so noone ever says anything to her about it. Seems like its working to my advantage.

I am glad thinks are looking up for you.

Keep us posted with new stuff.

Peace
UU

p.s. DJ bible = Don Juan bible, just in case you were wondering.

You need to move on or accept the fact that you are in the "friend-zone". If she wanted more out of your relationship, she could have just as easily kissed you than hug you but she chose to hug you. Also, did you ever make a move on her the whole time you two went out?? I bet not... this is where your lack of dating experience is catching up with you.

The problem with being a loner and not dating alot when you're young is that you don't learn how or when to make bold moves to let her know your intentions. You also don't know how a relationship is supposed to develop so you create scenarios in you head and when it doesn't go as planned, you take it as personal rejection. Rejection is part of the whole dating process, and you can't take it personal.