PLEASE: Help with this chick thing/how long should I wait

[penguinsfan]

Okay, I got shot down by two coworkers, but the third time is a charm, right?

I guess I'm so busy work is the only place I meet women. Mandy is a fun coworker that I've worked with for about a year. We talk daily and hangout for drinks after work sometimes along with others. Mandy live with her boyfriend Bill, who is a decent enough guy, though he has had a little bit of trouble lately. Anyhow, Mandy is not the girl I seek. That would be Mandy's sister: Tina.

Last June, Rich and Tina came to work for my company as temp workers. Rich and Tina just got out of college and moved in together within a month or two of meeting (about March/April 2003). I liked Rich, who ended up working in the same room as myself, though most folks thought he was a crude, belligerent asshole. This is because he would joke about sleeping with our VP and discuss the sex life between him and Tina around the office (something I never thought was very considerate or respectful). Personalities aside, Rich and I had a few things in common and we enjoyed working together. We would go out for a few drinks after work and I liked hanging around with Rich, never thinking of Tina as anything beyond my buddy's girl.

In early September, Rich and Tina got laid-off and moved to the D.C. area within a few weeks. We lost touch, though I would occasionally ask Mandy how they were doing. So, a few weeks ago, Rich tells Tina it's over and that she is to start packing. She ends up back here about 3-4 weeks ago, staying in a relative. Now, she's back working with me. I never realized what a sweet, likeable girl Tina is.

We go out for drinks almost every single night after work, along with Maria and my friend Joe. She loves to laugh at my jokes and shit. We get along great. Next Saturday, I will be taking her and Mandy to a gun show. We're supposed to party Saturday night and go shooting later Sunday afternoon. The girls are quite excited to do this. Joe and I, with another guy at the office and another friend, will be going out of town in August for a weekend of partying and fishing. Upon telling Tina about it, she expressed surprising interest, so I invited her. She jumped on the invitation.

I really now realize I love spending time with Tina and think I would like to be much more than her friend. I need to tell her about this soon, because the temp agency might lay her off within a matter of days, due to a work slowdown. In an ideal world, I would like to give her a little more time to become comfortable with me (though she seems quite comfortable) and get over her break-up with Rich. I see no signs of lamenting her time with Rich, as she doesn't seem stressed about it. She bought a drink for and talked to another guy when we were in the bar the other night, because he approached her with some aggressive come-ons, but he ended up being a jerk that didn't appeal to her. You can imagine, I monitored this situation as close as possible without trying to look like it. I really don't know how interested she is in me. She is always friendly and enjoys our conversations, but she is friendly to everyone.

I don't want to look like a guy that just jumped on his old buddy's girl. I wish I could give her more time, but it seems like she might get laid-off shortly, at which point I could still talk to her but won't see her much.

Any thoughts you guys could through at me would be appreciated.

 

[penguinsfan]

Fellow Mods, I apologize if I'm overstepping my bounds here, but I wanted to get attention to my other post. Please delete/trash this thread in a couple days if you would, as I'm not here everyday throughout the work week. Thanks.




Guys, I have a chick I'm interested in and I feel the opportunity to ask her out is time sensitive which is the only reason I'm putting this here in this forum. It's an odd situation and I forgot to mention this in the other post, but I am concerned her sister might try to fix this girl up with one of my other friends that she is fond of. My friend would not screw me over, but if the seed gets planted on Tina's end it could complicate things. They'll meet this upcoming weekend for the first time. Anyway, if some of you guys could read through my rambling and offer any advice on how to approach this touchy situation, I'd be grateful.

http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7922

 

[kong1971]

Take a deep breath, ask her to step aside with you for a moment and tell her your feelings. If you don't do it, you will always hate yourself for it and wonder what might have been. Telling a woman your feelings is always a hard thing for guys to do. I know. I would rather have my fingernails pulled out one by one...but it is getting easier for me. You have to remember, though, that women are all about feelings and communication. Don't try to impress her. Just tell her how you feel. If it's meant to be, it will be. If it's not, it won't. If she shoots you down in a cruel manner, it's better to know sooner than later that she is a witch and you don't need her anyway.

 

[Ulcasterdropout]

I know nothing about women so no advise here.....
but I got my fingers crossed for you dude
if you go for it.

 

[Monstarr]

If she has eyes for another guy nothing you tell her is going to break through those "rose colored glasses" she is wearing for him. Most likely she will listen to what you say but never actually hear a word that comes from your mouth.

Unless you think she will eventually marry this fellow you may be best off letting this passing fancy she has for him run its course and make your move after its over.

Unless........ you are the type of guy that will never be able to live with the thought that your buddy used to sleep with your girl. In that case you had best act quickly!

 

[levista]

my 2 cents

I wouldnt pull her aside and declare your undying love or anything. you need to come on to her in a casual yet clear way. asking her to do something "only" with you like go away for the day would be my suggestion. then when there start talking about how you have this "friend" who likes a girl but she just got out of a relationship with a buddy etc etc she'll know you are talking about you but she couldnt prove it in a court of law..
other than that, talk about relationships with her. like how is she feeling after the split, how you suppose she wants to take a break from relationships, what she learnt in the last one about guys she likes etc
she'll basically end up telling you everything you need to know to progress.

other than that, you could try getting the sister on your side, making her aware of your feelings or using her to find out it tina likes you as more than friends?

but overall i would say to make your play. if she shoots you down, you'll shrug it off and deal with it. and move on. if you dont even ask, you'll have months of if only i'd asked her!! argh!

 

[Godsize]

She probably thinks of you as "a brother".

I would stay away from mentioning anything about feelings. If she just got out of a relationship, that's the last shit she wants to hear.

Next time you guys go out for drinks, hit on her. Get really drunk and make out with her. Or invite your friends over to your house for drinks instead of a bar.

Or just fuckin' ask her out. You and her. No cockblockin' friends.

 

[Godsize]

Don't mention anything about feelings.

Just go for the fuck, and if she rejects you, then GOOD. At least after that you won't have to waste your time and energy being her "friend" while you die inside watching her french kiss some sleazy douchebag she met in a bar while having drinks with you. Don't end up being an emotional tampon.

If she's about to get laid off and you're not gonna see her again anyway, then you got nothing to lose. Offer her some dick. If she just broke up with her boyfriend, then all she's looking for is some new dick anyway. Don't get all deep with her. Just be fun, and offer her some dick.

You can always get more from a woman (friendship, relationship) after you have sex with her. If you offer friendship first, you may NEVER get sex from her.

 

[annonymous]

(edit):so true what the others said above the last. i'm not too sure about what the dude above my original post a minute ago said, though he does make some good points.

but i would advise u, in ur situation to definitely not go for the fuck. i don't think u should tell the girl face to face tho. do it to her sister. but seriously, i understand what the dude above is getting at, but if u just try to get pussy from her, ur risking everything. so don't do it. be nice, sensitive, honest but not directly to her. her sister.

it really isn't as hard or impossible as u tell urself it is. i've been in a very similar situation recently. i haven't actually told her my feelings, but the situation seems to be alot more secure now, and we r friends. haven't seen her much due to my stupid fuckin form tutor misinterpreting my behaviour when i started to improve from my depression, ocd, anxiety, social phobia, chronic worrying etc as evidence that i was unfit to be @ college. she says she needs to consider the A2 (second year) students (of which i am one) who r taking exams @ the end of this month and throughout June (again, this should be me, i am a fucking A2 student) and so is doing her best to keep me excluded from lectured and @ times the campus, when these people, not just this girl, but peeps in one particular class who really helped me get through all this shit without even knowing what i was going through r leaving between the 28th and 30th/31st to go to university etc sorry i'm ranting, enough about my problems.

bottom line, if u want something, go for it. the only person who can stop urself from gettin it is u. it's all in the mind, believe that - like with pe. if ur cool with her sister, that might be a good angle to approach it from. just lay ur cards on the table. but don't use too strong a vocabulary. say u like her alot or enjoy her company and u've started to have feelings for her, but DON'T say how much she might really be on ur mind and DON't use the L word.
good luck bro. reply to this if u want and let us all know how it goes.

 

[annonymous]

nvm

 

[bigbutnottoo]

“You miss 100% of the shots you never take.”

– Wayne Gretzky

 

[Monstarr]

I just saw your original thread I.e., got a better detailed story of what is going on.

I agree with everyone else you need to make your move. Too many guys think someone is unattainable when in all reality all that respective person is waiting for is a guy with enough cajones to speak to them face to face.

Don't waste your chance, go for it.

 

[iwant8inches]

Take a deep breath, ask her to step aside with you for a moment and tell her your feelings. If you don't do it, you will always hate yourself for it and wonder what might have been. Telling a woman your feelings is always a hard thing for guys to do. I know. I would rather have my fingernails pulled out one by one...but it is getting easier for me. You have to remember, though, that women are all about feelings and communication. Don't try to impress her. Just tell her how you feel. If it's meant to be, it will be. If it's not, it won't. If she shoots you down in a cruel manner, it's better to know sooner than later that she is a witch and you don't need her anyway.

Damn it, I've been thinking about doing exactly what you just said. I want to just pull this girl aside and tell her how I feel, but I have a thing about not getting in between a girl and another guy. I don't know the guy (the girl's bf) but I just know how I'd feel if I knew someone was trying to get with my girl. Anyway Penguinsfan I hope everything works out. You really should tell her how you feel. You owe it to her to let her know and you owe yourself to let your feelings out(that thick heavy weight, good, but agonizing feeling that's surely in your heart now every time you think of telling her). If you don't regret will consume you. Girls love to hear compliments. Well, telling her how you feel about her will be the greatest kind. Good luck...maybe I'll stop being such a coward (that's what I think I am not you) one of these days and just let leave my heart wide open. Like kong said pull her aside and tell her how you feel. It'll bring relief either way it goes.

 

[annonymous]

iwant8inches, go 4 it man.

to penguinsfan and iwant8inches: she will most likely be flattered as hell, that may even be the nicest thing anyone said to her - male or female. if she takes it the wrong way and thinks ur not masculine enough because u expressed ur feelings, then she's not mature enough to have the kind of relationship u r undoubtedly after.
but if this is the case, instead of just giving up on her and saying she's not worth it, compliment her subtley as u would any female friend, ask if she wants to come to the cinema with u. if u just say it casually like that, there's no way she would think ur trying to take her on a date.
it all depends how u've acted around her so far, i suppose. i'm really sorry, i didn't see the link to ur original thread penguinsfan. i'm gonna check it now.

peace

 

[cyinisis]

Hey, on the bright side, if shes hot as hell, you can always use this as a rule of thumb:

The hotter the girl is, the fewer guys she has to choose from, because just like you (proverbial "you"), everyone else is too shy to approach her. The guys she does get to approach her are the macho arrogant fuck type, and who wants that for any foreseeable length of time?

I say take a shot.



CYiNiSiS

 

[annonymous]

good point. never thought of it like that.

 

[penguinsfan]

In case this seems different, I just merged the two threads and put this here, where it belongs.

I really appreciate all the advice you guys took time to give me on this matter. I'm not particularly good with the ladies and this is an exceptionally delicate matter. Now, I'm going to reread this stuff and give you all an update with my comments.

 

[penguinsfan]

Unless........ you are the type of guy that will never be able to live with the thought that your buddy used to sleep with your girl. In that case you had best act quickly!

True, if she has her heart set on another guy. But I don't think this is the case.

If you're referring to Rich, I think Tina realizes that her and Rich are done. He dumped her. They live about five hours apart. Mandy and her family never cared for Rich, so she'll not get any encouragement there.

If you're referring to my other buddy, I know he wouldn't screw me over, as he knows I'm interested in Tina. However, she could get eyes for him. In that event, I could only give him my blessing if she insists on pursuing him. I'd kind of be a dick to say "No, you can't have her, because I can't, even though she has no interest in me.". I don't think that is real likely, as they probably won't end up hanging out this weekend.

 

[penguinsfan]

UPDATE

I kind of took an unconventional route on Monday night, based somewhat on the advice from levista and annonymous. I went through her sister, Mandy. I kicked around various ideas throughout the evening and wondered what to do. I was pretty much set on the idea of confessing to her sister, when another idea hit me. At that point, I went in to the office and talked to our boss asking him how long it would be until the temp workers get laid-off if things stay slow like they are now. While I kind of made up another reason for my inquiry, I got what I needed. Basically, the order has to come from Seattle and they should get decent notice, so we're talking a few weeks yet. That meant that I didn't have to weight the fact I felt she would be laid-off within days into my decision.

So, I'm wondering what to do when behold, Mandy is walking down the hall towards me, away from everyone else and the cubicles. Maybe I saw it as fate, but I decided to take the perfect, private moment to confide to her about my interest in her sister, Tina. I began by telling her that I realized I am attracted to Tina. Mandy kind of laughed and said she suspected those feelings. I asked her if Tina was having a tough time dealing with the break-up with Rich, or handling it well. The word I got is that Tina is handling things pretty well and realizes there isn't much chance of getting back together. As a sidenote, I heard her make comments tonight about how "he needs to move-on". I told Mandy I didn't want to cause Tina any undue stress in her life right now, or upset any friendships, if the timing is bad these days. Many advised me to hangout with Tina and herself, take Tina out for lunch during work a couple of times, and just get to spend a little more time with her.

At that point, I told Mandy that I should probably go and say something to Tina. I explained that being as they're sisters, Mandy would find it inevitable to say something to Tina about our conversation. Her response surprised me. She told me it would not be her place to try and intervene or get involved in the business of either Tina or myself. She said, "I told you what I recommend, now you need to do whatever you want.". Mandy made her comments in a serious tone that lead me to think she probably would not tell her sister about the conversation, as if I could do anything but take her word at that point.

So, the next night (Tuesday) I rode to work with my best friend, as I sometimes do. He ended up having to spend his lunch hour at the Verizon store getting a phone account set-up. I asked around about what folks were doing for lunch hour and ended up approaching Mandy and Tina, as they were conversing. I asked them about going to Subway to grab sandwiches. Mandy declined, but upon tellling them I didn't have a vehicle for lunch break, Tina offered to take me to Subway. So, we had a nice lunch-hour talking about this and that, making jokes, etc.

Last night, the two of them came into my room and asked me what I was doing for lunch. I told them I had no plans and they invited me to TGI Friday's, which was quite nice and I had a good time. At dinner, Tina talked just a little bit about Rich. She has to meet Rich Sunday night and get her car out of the garage on Monday morning then drive back home to Pittsburgh. So, I understood him being in the conversation and I was always fond of the guy anyway. I just want to be his old girl's new man, now that he seems to be history. At the end of the night (we finish work at 1:30 am) the girls and I took about 45 minutes and walked around the local area with a couple other coworkers. We had talked earlier about how much better it would be if we only drank two nights out of the work week and exercised the other three. The other guy that strolled along was really kind of obnoxious, but that was none of our doings. My immediate thinking is that I'll talk to Mandy in the middle of next week and fish for information to see how Tina's meeting with Rich went down. There is the chance that something could get rekindled and the chance that a bad, hostile meeting would put much stress in her life.

So, if Mandy did say something, then things look really good, because the girls have spent a considerable amount of time with me since the conversation. If not, I don't know what to think. Mandy had said that Tina is the type of girl that WILL maintain our friendship if she is not interested in romance. I suppose that the increase in time together is not a definite sign then.

Well, I probably have a couple more thoughts on the matter, but it's really late here and I'm going to get some sleep. Any thoughts on what this might mean or suggestions would be great.

 

[Godsize]

Dude you better ask her out soon before she doesn't think you're interested. Don't get caught in the "friend zone".

 

[penguinsfan]

Things have been okay lately, but I haven't been able to get any feedback from Mandy about how last weekend went, which was the weekend Tina went down to see Rich and get her car back. Mandy and I had dinner on Monday evening, while Tina was away and we talked about the conversation had the previous week. I told her it seemed as though she has been trying to steer me towards spending time with Tina, to which she said "Well, you're a good guy and I wouldn't mind seeing you with my sister." Unfortunately, I had to take two days off in the middle of the week, due to a funeral and Mandy took Friday off for a concert.

Friday night Tina and I spent lunch hour together, had drinks after work by ourselves, and I took her shooting Saturday evening to give her a new experience in life. This was not a proper date, but I just asked her if she wanted to go out because Mandy was going out of town for the holiday weekend. She seemed to love the whole shooting thing. We were supposed to go bowling (she loves bowling) afterwards, but plans changed because she said she forgot her bag of clothes to take to her friend's apartment. From bowling, she was supposed to head to her friend's place because they were going to the local amusement park on Sunday. I wondered if she was putting me off with an excuse about forgeting the clothes. Yet, that could have happened to anyone as I forget such things routinely. So, she had to drive back to her place and get them, thus taking up enough time that she wanted a raincheck on bowling. We still spent about 2-3 fun hours together and she spent about 15 minutes or so just sitting in the car with me at the end of the night debating about what to do about the extra trip back to her place. She could have easily excused herself sooner.

The only thing that put any doubt into my mind was a phone conversation she had on the way back. We were supposed to bowl with her friend, Shannon, that she was going to stay with later. On the phone, Shannon mentioned that her neighbor wanted to bowl too. "The hot guy?" was Tina's response and they giggled and shit. Afterwards, she laughed and said she felt embarassed because Shannon's neighbor was right by her and probably heard her comment. We just joked about it a little. It's probably a stretch in my mind to believe that she invented some excuse just to bowl with Shannon and this other guy that she met once. It didn't seem like it and we had a good time talking on the way back.

I'd like to get a little feedback from Mandy on how Tina stands with Rich. She jokingly referred to her target as Rich, but I know she still has some feelings leftover. If Rich is no obstacle, I'll probably just wait for another opportunity when we're alone and tell her that I love the time we spend together and that I am potentially interested in going beyond friendship.