Liberal vs Conservative, democrat vs republican

Liberal vs Conservative, democrat vs republican


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This is a great argument and I'm enjoying reading it. But Spectrum you've believed to many of the liberal lies impressed upon you in your schooling and from parents. Your simply repeating rhetoric all democrats and liberals say. You say that conservative views will bring the devastation of our country? What about liberal views? In twenty years our country would be in ruin if liberals ran it. It would be a complete communistic and socialistic society revolving around laziness. By simply examing the conservative and liberal views on welfare you can see the distinct difference. Once again, conservatives believe that people should be able to make their own money. Liberals on the other hand feel that you dno't have the abilty to make your own money, and they would rather govern how much you recieve and how you may spend it, as seen with taxes and welfare.

Liberals also promote affirmative actions, which basically overtime will dumb down our society and destory the white male. In all statistics the average IQ of a white male is substantially higher than other ethic minorities. I am no racist and therefore I believe that people should be accpeted to college on a knowledge and academic based system, not on the color of ones skin.
 
That's capitalist america. You don't have to tell me I buy into communist beliefs. I live day to day struggling

Man dont' feed us that. There is no excuse for not being able to suceed in America. We are all gifted with the chance to perform and excel in our schooling which will pathe the way towards your outcome or future income. As for starting a new business, I believe that are too heavly taxed. Liberals tax small businesses asses off. And contrary to all the Liberals lies, BIG BUSINESS (OH NO!!!) is not the source of most of American jobs. Most American jobs are found in small business. So when you say conservatives are for the rich, thats untrue, because they want to cut taxes for everyone, we hate taxes!
 
Forget lables for a second. There are really only two ways to structure an economy -- spontaneous (free market) or command.

Command economies come under different labels, fascist, communists, socialist, kingdoms, etc.

In the spontaneous economy, price is the feedback mechanism. In a command economy, some has to decide who works where, how many units to produce, what products to produce, etc.

In some command economies, you are told what job you will do in life. In others, they open X number of slots, and then people get those slots through either merit or favoritism, etc.

You can't just let people do what they want in a command economy because everyone will become ski instructors or life guards, etc.

In the spontaneous economy, you can do whatever you want -- but nobody is required to buy stuff from you if they don't want your output. So your "market price" can be really low -- maybe because you produce crap, or maybe because there are too many other people producing the same thing.

So the price feedback directs people to either increase their output, or search for something else to do.

The spontaneous economy always seems more chaotic -- social engineers hate it because they have no power over it. The great unwashed masses actually determine who wins and loses in a spontaneous economy. The elites just sit their with their fingers up their asses and bitch and moan about how no one listens to their pearls of wisdom.

In a command economy, the elite are kings -- they make five year plans, direct factory production goals, provide life long employment, etc etc.

The only trouble is -- no command economy in history has outperformed a spontaneous economy. The Soviet Union collapsed because their economy was falling farther and farther behind the spontaneous economy of the west.
 
I completely agree that communism sucks. I hate the idea of communism. People always get communism and socialism confused though.

Communism is defined as a classless society where everyone shares everything. I do not believe in this because some people work harder than others. I agree with conservatives on this.

Socialism on the other hand is used in many countries that are better off than the United States. Probably the best example of this is Australia. The best way for me to define socialism is the governments control of corporate greed. There are extreme socialists and moderate socialists. I consider myself a moderate socialist.

In my opinion, the best form of government would be a combination of capitalism and socialism. I believe the government should have more of a say in wages and land control. I don't believe the government should tell you what your job is going to be or where you have to shop. The minimum wage should be raised above the poverty level. No american is worth over a million a year, I don't care what they do or what decisions they make. Not even the President makes near that.

Both systems have problems, so why not take the best of both worlds?

I try to find solutions to the problems, and even though we think we have the greatest system, we don't.
 
Spectrum you've said some incorrect things, in my mind above.

Socialism on the other hand is used in many countries that are better off than the United States

There are no countries better off than us, we have the higest standard of living. Australia isn't leading the world, we are.

And as for communism and socialism being separate, that is far from the truth. Liberalism, socialism, and communism are all synonyms for very close philosophies. The distinct difference between socialism and communism is that one rules from a larger base and the other rules by a distinct group or politcal party. They both deal with the distribution of wealth the only difference is how it is controlled, which both subsequentially lead back to a central government.

I believe the government should have more of a say in wages and land control

If this ensues, the moral of the nation will surely die. This is the reason communism and socialism may seem appealing but after a certain number of years people get educated and realize, "Hey, I want to be rich." Socialism and Communism hold back that desire to succeed. What is the worth in education, schooling, hard work, and sacarfice if the degenerate pot-head next door will get the same income for doing less or nothing? Why should my tax dollars go to bums on welfare when they could apply themselves to something instead of recieving their livelyhood from those who have decided to apply themselves? It's total BS. Why should all my hard work be diminished because people think it's unfair that there are successful rich people? One of the things bringing down America is this hate for rich people. They are said to be milking the money away from all the poor working class, BS! Take DLD for an example, all you really need to do is find something you like and it will work for you. I certaintly hope DLD gets extremely rich for all the good he has created. He doesn't complain about stuff, instead he makes his own fun and money
 
Originally posted by GellyBird
There are no countries better off than us, we have the higest standard of living. Australia isn't leading the world, we are.

And as for communism and socialism being separate, that is far from the truth. Liberalism, socialism, and communism are all synonyms for very close philosophies. The distinct difference between socialism and communism is that one rules from a larger base and the other rules by a distinct group or politcal party. They both deal with the distribution of wealth the only difference is how it is controlled, which both subsequentially lead back to a central government.

The above statement is false. Everything about it is false. It is this ignorant attitude that makes the rest of the world hate us.

I will not debate with someone who does not even understand what he is debating about.
 
hey gellybird, i disagree with some of your statements . . .

the US does not have the overall highest standard of living as ranked by the UN, i can't remember who does but i don't even think we're in the top ten. we don't have the highest literacy rate, lowest unemployment, we're not really #1in much except for military, waste production, energy consumption and overall wealth.

second, we are far from free market bucaneers in this country. the intricate web of government controls, subsidation, and regualtion that maintains are economy isn't true balls to the wall capitalism by any means, so when you say US is numero uno, you're latently supporting a socialist influenced state.

okay, now i don't want to get into an argument on these points, but just slamming welfare and social programs as handouts for lazy degenerates and fuck-ups is really oversimplifying a very complicated issue. and i think there is a massive difference between liberals, communists and socialists. saying somebody is a commie because they're liberal is just spin and disinformation. there is a virtual multitude of different and varied political standpoints on the left, and some are so radically different within those defenitions that the practioners hate each other's guts.

the stuff you said about affirmative action and dumbing down the country and IQ, well that stuff really gets my goat so i won't even go into it. but be a little sensitive please. but i will ask, do you really see the country as somehow fucked if white males don't own and run everything? do you really think white men are the smartest and most capable incarnation of human beings? at least think about it. i'm not religious, but i think the only real way the world is going down in flames is if everybody abandons compassion for their fellow man, and i don't hear much compassion in your posts. i don't presume to know what kind of person you are, but i think people not caring about those suffering or disadvantaged because of darwinian social theories is way scarier than a black kid getting into a good school with a lower GPA because of affirmative action.
 
I've decided to back up my above statement with facts. Something you have not done yet. It's kind of funny how the top 3 ranked countries happen to be socialist.

http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/faq/commievssoc.html

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_hum_dev_ind

Some very suprising things to look at:

We have 13% of the population living in poverty. Kind of staggering isn't it?
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_pop_bel_pov_lin

This country isn't very giving.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_eco_aid_don_cap

Americans are great people, huh?
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_rap
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_rob
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_pri

We're not that great at marraige either.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/peo_div_rat

Put away the SUVs! This one is shocking.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/env_co2_emi

This country sure does put a lot of money into education. So much in fact, that we're ranked #47 and we're ranked #1 in budget! We spend 3x more on our military than we do on education.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mil_exp_dol_fig
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/edu_edu_spe
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_bud_exp

See, you can say all you want. Anyone who debates needs to back up what they say.

I have proven that... socialism is NOT communism.
I have also proven that... America is NOT the best place to live in the world.
 
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Top Ten

Gross Domestic Product, Purchasing Power Parity (GDP PPP)
-----------------------------------------------------------
1 United States $8,511,000.0 (labor force: 137,700,000)
2 China $4,420,000.0 (labor force: 696,000,000)
3 Japan $2,903,000.0
4 Germany $1,813,000.0
5 India $1,689,000.0
6 France $1,320,000.0
7 United Kingdom $1,252,000.0
8 Italy $1,181,000.0
9 Brazil $1,035,200.0
10 Mexico $815,300.0



GDP per capita
------------------------------------------------------
1 Luxembourg $32,700 (labor force: 226,500)
2 United States $31,500 (labor force: 137,700,000)
3 Bermuda $30,000
4 Switzerland $26,400
5 Singapore $26,300
6 Hong Kong $25,100
7 Monaco $25,000
8 Norway $24,700
9 Cayman Islands $24,500
10 Belgium $23,400
 
Spektrum your absolutely right. What these some of these others dont get, is that you can have socialist aspects but still be a democracy and a capatilist.

If we do things like put caps on spending unless in a state of war or emergency, then we can stop the deficit. Which is now in the trillions thanx to Bush.

We can stop corporate corupption by putting cap on how much a CEO can make. Something like they only make a percentage more than a certain amount compared to combined workers wages. Or whatever. Because they are too fuckin rich and they influence our legislature too much.

All of the business in Iraq, who are getting billion-dollar no-bid contracts, contributed to George Bush's campaign.

It was also reported that Haliburton is charging our government twice as much for shipping oil and gasoline in Iraq from Kuwait. What the FUCK? Cheney's company is ripping us off! Thats our tax money! Conservatives should be outraged

We went into to Iraq for only a couple real reasons. One is so these rich fucks can set up all kinds of billion dolllar companies using Iraqi natural resources. And they can sit in America, and sit on their fat, rich, white asses, and collect their money soaked in the blood of the American Soldier.

Oh yeah, just remember Osama Loves your SUV because foreign oil dependance sponsors terrorism. Not drugs.
 
Originally posted by bobbdobbs
Top Ten

Gross Domestic Product, Purchasing Power Parity (GDP PPP)
-----------------------------------------------------------
1 United States $8,511,000.0 (labor force: 137,700,000)
2 China $4,420,000.0 (labor force: 696,000,000)
3 Japan $2,903,000.0
4 Germany $1,813,000.0
5 India $1,689,000.0
6 France $1,320,000.0
7 United Kingdom $1,252,000.0
8 Italy $1,181,000.0
9 Brazil $1,035,200.0
10 Mexico $815,300.0



GDP per capita
------------------------------------------------------
1 Luxembourg $32,700 (labor force: 226,500)
2 United States $31,500 (labor force: 137,700,000)
3 Bermuda $30,000
4 Switzerland $26,400
5 Singapore $26,300
6 Hong Kong $25,100
7 Monaco $25,000
8 Norway $24,700
9 Cayman Islands $24,500
10 Belgium $23,400

This basically comes down to the fact that there are many really rich people in this country. This could mean 1 person has 1,000,000 and 99 people have 20,000. Its really a moot point.
 
do you really see the country as somehow fucked if white males don't own and run everything?

I never said that at all, I said that we shouldn't decide things on the color of ones skin, we should focus on peoples academics and character. If it turns out that white people run the country without affirmative action let it be. There is no need to diversify our schools or anything, why can't it just be done naturally?

This basically comes down to the fact that there are many really rich people in this country. This could mean 1 person has 1,000,000 and 99 people have 20,000. Its really a moot point.

This may be correct, but so what? This country has gone down the tubes and it seems there is a growing hatred for the rich. Poor or poverty stricken people have ample opportunity to rise up the economic class system. We have a public education system which all are entitled to, do we not? I don't know the exact numbers, but these 1%, as you put it, pay close to 90% of all the taxes. Many people making 20,000 or below pay no, or next to no taxes.

We went into to Iraq for only a couple real reasons. One is so these rich fucks can set up all kinds of billion dolllar companies using Iraqi natural resources. And they can sit in America, and sit on their fat, rich, white asses, and collect their money soaked in the blood of the American Soldier.

What is your point? Your liberal rhetoric and hatred towards Bush and his sucess is digusting. So what if we need oil? Have you forgotten about the millions of Iraqis we saved? Go and tell them that this war was not justified. You obviously know nothing about the 290,000 missing Iraqi Shiites, and Kurds who are undoubtly buried beneath the ground. You obviously know nothing of the Halabja chemical bombings. Why is it such a curse to be rich? Why do you hate rich people so much?

Oh yeah, just remember Osama Loves your SUV because foreign oil dependance sponsors terrorism. Not drugs

I'm sorry, but I love my SUV and won't give it up for some small peice of shit car. My car may consume more gas, but hey, thats what destorying terrorism is for. Have you forgotten 9/11 buddy? I bet if Gore was in office Osama would still be bombing us to this day.
 
And Spectrum...
I have also proven that... America is NOT the best place to live in the world.

If it's not the best place to live, why are you here? It seems that all you liberals have this "blame America first" mentality. There are hardly any positive things coming out of America right? So leave! You complain about your small business getting beaten out, try it somewhere else. Those socialist countries will tax you to death and even if you do succeed they will cut you back, giving your hard worked money to the poor, and see how you like it.

What is the point of aspiring to become a lawyer or doctor anymore? After taxes, they pay the government half of their money. I would rather be some poor bastard working at McDonalds and paying no taxes than working hard but knowing that half of my salary is going to go to the government.
 
no need to diversify our schools . . . holy shit man i'd love to hear you say that to some black parents. listen, the fact is, as i have said a million times before, the playing field is unequal in america.

the poor, and especially poor minorities have less opportunity in this country and it is exponentially harder for them to succeed within the system. denying that is just an unwillingness to look at numbers and facts. not all public schools are equal and not all avenues of success are open to minorities and the impovrished. i've said this before as well, i'd hold zero bitternessn if i lost a spot at any of my top college selections due to an affirmative action program because i think these programs are necessary and fair, even as an affluent white male who ostensibly has nothing to personally gain from them.

although i was for the war at the time . . . it is because i, like so many others, was lied to and sucked in by the WMD claims. using the ex post facto pretext of human rights violations doesn't seem right to me even though i agree that they are horrible, because america never would have backed a war simply on these grounds in the first place, but it now seems we are fighting one for them. and i wouldn't say it's a success for bush; his general failure has made him vulnerable in the coming in election when he could have been undefeatable. his administration has bungled the war, just as they bungled 9/11 and lost all international sympathy for the US at a time when we could have solidified our power and leadership.

i wouldn't say there is hatred for the rich, i would say there is hatred for curruption and greed. people don't complain about hard working inovators that work and contribute to make a luxurious living, that's the great american dream. they do complain about high-born underachievers that go to top schools despite poor grades and ability, snort coke and drink themselves silly, dodge wars to fly national guard runs over their home state, run down several businesses just handed to them by their father's friends as a well as a sports team whose purchase was subsidized by taxpayers, then land ass-first into the leadership of the free world where they enforce their self-rightous religious and moral opinions and openly allow the nation's highest honor to be the tool of private interest and partisan plotting.

why do conservatives consider criticism of the current administration or anything else for that matter to be unpatriotic? so i don't like bush or consevative attitudes? how does that translate to i hate america? jefferson's oft-repeated quote " . . . in a nation with newspapers and no government, or government and no newspapers, i should prefer the one with no government." or something to that effect. this new GOP rhetoric where complaining about things that are seen as not preferable is somehow anti-america, it's just bizarre, and it's implied censorship and facism. and that is truly anti-american.

i'm glad you like your SUV so much, my unborn children thank you dude. lets just all collectively take a dump on the next few generations and slurp down as many resources and accumulate as much debt as we can, it's not like i'll have to pay for it during my lifetime or worse yet my own kids and grandkids will suffer the fallout from lack of caring now . . . er, wait, fuck.

why would anybody want to be a doctor or a lawyer? well, i'm pretty sure my parents are doctors because they like contributing to people's lives and enjoy what they do for the sake of it. i'm pretty sure i want to go to law school because i believe i can contribute to society and help people by practicing law and the notion of working with the fabric of society intrigues me. believe it or not some people believe in working hard and contributing even if the government taxes your paycheck. there was a time when we didn't have much taxation, under the articles of the confederation, the country almost collapsed, it was shitty, they fixed it, with the Constitution. see the paved roads, ambulances transporting sick people, teachers educating the young, cops on the corner? see our glorious and fully justified triumph in iraq, the 100+ billion dollar one? that stuff isn't paid for by private donors. i'd go into law if it paid like social work. but why do anything if it doesn't help you personally in some way? that seems to sum up the whole conservative mindset to me these days.
 
Originally posted by Spektrum
This basically comes down to the fact that there are many really rich people in this country. This could mean 1 person has 1,000,000 and 99 people have 20,000. Its really a moot point.

GDP PPP -- $8,511,000,000,000
GDP Per Capita -- $31,500

It means the US economy is the most productive in the world and in history.

China, with five times as many workers, produces half as much. Meaning that each US worker produces as much as ten Chinese workers. Stunning!

As for distribution, the median US family income is $51,407 (2001). The median means half the families make more, half make less. The mean, or average, US family's income is $66,836.

Now take this to heart -- you cannot consume that which hasn't been produced. The US's vast production output lowers the cost of goods for all people.

Furthermore, rich people can't get rich if no one can afford to buy their products. The fact that some people get rich means that the vast majority of people can afford to by their products, and willingly do so.

In a dirt poor society where no one can afford anything, you can't get rich selling them stuff, now can you.

For instance, the poor and downtrodden you speak of seem to be happy to pay Tim Robbins and other liberal actors 10's of millions of dollars to see them in movies. And those compassionate egalitarian liberals seem happy to keep the money for themselves. Hmmm
 
Originally posted by goodbutnotgreat
the poor, and especially poor minorities have less opportunity in this country and it is exponentially harder for them to succeed within the system.

Nah. The greatest predictor of adult financial success is graduating from highschool. The next greatest predictor of adult financial success is being married.

There is nothing in our "capitalistic" system that is hindering "minorities" from completing high school or getting married. However there is, in some subcultures, a focus (let's use a non-judgemental term here) on things other than education or family life.

Attending highschool is both free and mandatory. Dropping out for financial reasons is extremely rare. Most dropouts are for the ex-student's own reasons, usually at the disapproval of their parents.
 
Originally posted by goodbutnotgreat
using the ex post facto pretext of human rights violations doesn't seem right to me even though i agree that they are horrible, because america never would have backed a war simply on these grounds in the first place
I'm kind of confused at your point.

Are you saying that, to you personally, Saddam's mass murder is not a sufficient justification to topple him? Or that because normally the US wouldn't do so on that basis alone, that would over-rule your own support for toppling mass murdering dictators?

Now historically I don't think your point is correct about the US not toppling mass murderers. I recall just one administration ago that Clinton ordered an air war in Bosnia. The sheer number of human rights violations was far less in Bosnia than in Iraq -- two or three orders of magnitude less. At the time it was suggested that it was Hillary Clinton who finally prevailed in convincing Bill Clinton to start the bombing campaign.
 
Heres the thing. Everyone starts from a point in their life, whether it be bad or not. I admit, for me it wasn't. But for my great-grandparents, and my grandparents, and my parents it was shit poor. Back in their day they never asked for welfare handouts, they did what they had to do to make my life better, and I hope to do the same with my kids. Every generation things became better because we realized, "we might not become rich in our lifetime, but hell, if I can let my kids live better than I did, I'll be happy." You said something about my SUV's not helping your kids, hey man, I hope you instal some values into them that gives them the persistance and hard work to obtain these things like my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents did.

As far as affrimative action, I hope you arn't white and support it. It's racism, and no one can argue against that. Sure the playing field is unequal but colleges profile the quality of the high school and therefore the strength of academics accordingly. My problem is, they take it a step further and make it unequal by adding in race as a factor. It's illegal to hire people based on race, why is it not for "hiring" or accepting into colleges? Get past a persons sking color already and focus on academics which can really add and contribute to American Society.

I agree its a hatred for corruption but it is also a hatred against the rich and wealthy. It's liberal, socialistic ideas concerning economic equality which has created this class of degenerate rich hating people. Prior to the great depression we never needed a welfare system and President Roosevelt feared that this system would become to relied on by Americans. And seventy years later, he was right. There is no excuse for being on welfare, as long as your not handicapped or something. It's just an excuse for free-loaders to live off other peoples hard work.

And as for attacking Bush, come on it's pointless already. Much of the same can be said for Clinton, or even worse. For Christs sake, he had an affair in the oval office.

As for being un-patriotic, some of the things liberals say are. During a wartime, you don't suggest that Bush went to war to diffuse away from an Enron scandel, or say it was for any other political gain. That's seditious and irresponsible to suggest that a president would risk the lives of American soldiers purly for his own hide. I would have more trust even with a liberal president to make that accusation which democractic candidates make daily. There is a borderline between free speech, constructive critism, and saying things which undermine and destroy the moral of our troops. It's as if liberals want soldiers to die so they can yell, "SEE BUSH! YOUR FAILING IN YOUR WAR! WE WERE RIGHT!"

And the SUV, yeah it's very nice. I'm hoping to add this custom Bose sound system and leather chairs as well as a unneeded GPS, just for looks. But seriously, I made my money, and no one is going to tell me how I spend it, especially not after half of it is taken away after taxes.

why do anything if it doesn't help you personally in some way? that seems to sum up the whole conservative mindset to me these days.
What about the ACLU or trial lawyers? They are all liberal and care only for themselves as seen with ambulance chasing and law suits like the McDonalds coffee burns and the recent Cincinnati Police Issues. Christianity is more conservative than liberal, and arn't Churches fudning some of the wealthiest and most generous foundations toward the needy and uneducated? Although I love my SUV I donate tons to local churches and participate in my fundraising drives towards charities that I find productive and worthwhile.

Russia's economy is strengthening also and they run a set tax system of around 17-19% for all economic classes. Why can't we apply this? Our high taxes seem more like a deterant against hard work. We all agree our money isn't spent properly, and I won't be partison in my politics and say Bush hasn't made any mistakes. The HIV bill to Africa was an outrage for an example, as was the bill towards reconstructring Iraq. When I say this, I mean we should have used their oil for reconstructring, and reparations.
 
Are you saying that, to you personally, Saddam's mass murder is not a sufficient justification to topple him? Or that because normally the US wouldn't do so on that basis alone, that would over-rule your own support for toppling mass murdering dictators?

Good Point. If you really are against the war, I ask you to hear fromt the Iraqi's themselves. Read this article, its very informative and can show you the true inhumanity and destruction we prevented and put a top too.

http://www.krg.org/docs/articles/goldberg.asp
 
haha, well, gellybird, we're never gonna sway each other, but you defend your stance a lot more articulately than some so i give you credit for that. you seem to have at least considered your views independtly and aren;t just reading the latest ann coultier and spitting it back out verbatum.

bobbdobbs - on the war stuff: i meant that the pretext for going to war was the WMD threat. that was what was sold to america as the necessity for going to war and toppling the regime, we used to fund saddaam and hook him up with weapons when his human rights violations were worse than ever. and comparing kosovo and bosnia with iraw is slightly flawed. mass genocide was breaking out in that region, and in any event airstrikes are not a full-scale invasion and occupation. and we didn't have any trouble locating the mass graves, where as the WMD are proving rather elusive. i'm glad he's gone, we're certainly not any worse for it, but i think the war was embarked upon in an irresponsible and dishonest fashion.

on education and opportunity - again, i repeat myself, you and i had this same debate i believe. i don't think it is fair for a young black kid coming from a crime-riddled community surrounded by drugs, poverty, violence, single-parent household, ect. to be held to the same standards as say, me. i live in the country and attend a private where our teachers make 2 and 1/2 times the salary of the top public instructors, i have luxury, a great home life, and basically all my needs taken care of. if some kid coming out of the ghetto can get ten points less than me and applies to the same college and it comes down to him or me, fuck all man he should the the position. i know it's anecdotal, i and am always flaming people for using anecodtal examples, but i think it encapsulates my point easier than a drier explanation. social and economic factors havae a role to play, and social and economic conditions are often closely related to ethnic distribution. there is a gap between white people and minorites on the whole, and i believe in an equalizing factor. apologies if it seems like lunacy, but i think affirmative action is a continuation of the american promise.

gellybird - all i want to say is that getting a BJ from an intern is tasteless and stupid. but i think bush is a tool of others interests, underqualified and a willing player in somebody elses game, he's a poor example of a president, a man of marginal accomplishment and facility who succeeds as a vessel for the principles and interests of others. i don't think he is that dumb, he's smart enough. i think he's a mean motherfucker that understands the role he needs to play in the game that has taken care of him his whole life. and i cannot stress this enough, he is not qualified to be the leader of the free world. say what you will about old slick willie, but he had enormous political talent, possessed remarkable intelligence and charisma, and was a lifelong student diplomacy, economics and american history. everywhere bush has traveled in life has been on the good old boy ticket, and i hate that shit.

the stuff about lawyers, i'll just say nah. why does everybody hate lawyers so much? we'd be in deep shit without people around to study, interpret and explain the law. what is this myth about lawyers being all evil and greedy? it's a profession like anything else, they perform a service. if people don't like some of the places lawyers go to make their money (frivelous lawsuits) then criticize the legal system that allows for it. i thought we were all for making money around here? if somebody goes to law school, gets all knowed up, organizes a group suit against fen-fen and wins a giant settlement and can retire happily on their 10%, then why begrudge? it's not what i would do, but who can fault people for being smart enough to go where the bucks are?
 
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