Opinions on God....

[koooky]

Since there was already a thread dealing with Jesus, I thought I would start this thread to see where it goes and hopefully encourage a little thinking and open discusion. I would really rather not have this thread turn into a "I'm right and all of you are wrong so burn in hell" type thing. Just everyone's thoughts on "God".


First of all, I was raised in a private Christian school(non-catholic) and of course the Bible was a class just as any other subject like math or english. Here are some things to think about that I have always wondered about the God of the OT.

1. If we have "freewill" then why did God "harden pharoah's heart" several times when Moses kept coming to him? It seems to me that Pharoah would have changed his mind had not God "harden his heart"

2. Same story....Why would God kill ALL of egypts first born sons? I am sure a LOT of those families had nothing at all to do with the current situation between God, Moses and Pharoah, but yet God slaughtered untold numbers of innocent children and I am sure some adults(all first born sons). This seems really, really barbaric and paganistic if you ask me.

3. Why would God tell a man to sacrifice his son? And he had to do it himself? Granted, a lamb was later provided at the last minute but c'mon, to tell a guy to do this??? Once again, it seems very barbaric and paganistic to me.

4. Why would God let Satan totally destroy Job's life on a "bet"??? This seems way out there...You can do anything to him but take his life. So Job loses his entire family because God wanted to prove Satan wrong? Wow. Talk about needing some self-justification. O, in the end Job got another wife and more kids, but does that mean they replace the hurt and pain he felt of losing the first ones?

5. I was always taught that if a person died in the modern age(AD) without Christ as their savior they went to hell. Babies and mentally retarded people excluded. Everyone else, tough luck. You die and not saved, your going to hell. This always seemed pretty horrible to me. Lets say you have a tribe of people living on a very small island. It's in the 1500's. They have never encountered ANYONE else not from thie island. They of course over time have developed their own religious system based on what effects them on a daily basis..the sun god, the ocean god, the plant god...whatever. Then, an underwater volcano erupts and they all die a horrible death from all the lava. Everyone. Their is not one person left from their small civilazation. You are going to tell me that God sends all these people straight to hell? Even the "good ones" who took care of their families and were pretty upstanding morally in their community? So it's all their fault they have never heard of "THE GOD" or Jesus or the Bible?

Well, these are just a few of my thoughts on the God of the Bible. I happen to believe that their is a "God", but it is very hard for me to believe that he cares so much about us or is involved at all with us considering all the terrible things that go on around us everyday. I read somewhere that 100,000 people died in the last year due directly to drought...No rain from god, so 100,000 people die. amazing. How many children are kidnapped and raped and murdered every year? How many children are raped by "men of the cloth" every year? It's kind of scary when you think about it.

kook

 

[derringer57]

1. When you hear the message of God and reject it your heart hardens. God doesnt force you to be hard, it means you allow God to harden to your heart by rejecting him. Its like hitting your head on your monitor and saying the monitor 'hurt' you.

2. The people of Egypt worshipped pagan gods, no person is innocent, its a truth hard for some to grasp, but important to understand Christianity. We are all born sinful, and only saved by grace, we dont deserve to live in a nutshell.

3. He was testing him to see if his ultimate faith was in God.

4. See 3. Also God wasnt trying to 'prove' Satan wrong, he was testing Job, a common thing to purify people in a 'trial by fire' so to speak.

5. Very common question. All of these are very common questions I am going off what I can remember from some really solid answers I got, I dont think an NPenis Enlargement board is exactly the place to look for the pro-God side answers... but.. here I go. First... see #2 none of us deserve even a chance at eternal life. Secondly, anyone who truly seeks the Lord will find him. I talked to a missionary who went to some freezing place to do missionary work, and the people were searching for the 'true' God, praying to whomever it may be to answer them that he would send them a messenger. Lo n behold.. missionary. Boom. Seek and you will find, God is everywhere wanting to reach everyone. Not knowing is not an excuse, because if you truly searched you would have found.
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Another common view. If the world is so evil how can God exist or be good. Either he has power to do something and chooses not to and is therefor evil, or he doesnt have the power and he is not God.

Point is, free will = free choice = choice of good and evil. All humans are basically evil and are subject to temptations in life they may fall to. Due to our sinful nature we were stricken with diseases, droughts, and other malices. The children you speak of kidnapped and raped are kidnapped and raped by humans with free will capable of good or evil. Its a 2handed sword.

"men of cloth" Ah the catholic church, which I think is too ceremonial and backwards. 1) They pretty much deify the pope and mary, on a greater level
2) All those men in secrecy with boys is never a good system to have

The world is scary. Man is scary, and pretty much due to free will all of these evil things are among us. Dont blame God, blame your imperfections by being human and sinful, and just be thankful there is grace and redemption for an awesome better than you can imagine, afterlife, that is eternal given to you with complete grace and forgiveness, just by asking for it and believing it.

 

[Shithead]

cause and effect. there is no such thing as free will, every decision you make had a cause.

 

[kong1971]

I think one thing that we have to understand, kooky, is that God is not overly concerned with our physical well-being. God is a spiritual entity and he is concerned for our spiritual well-being. He is worried about us, as luminous beings, growing and learning in a spiritual way, not whether we have new shoes for the kids for the new school year, or our back is sore in the morning, or even if Father Callahan put his dick in our butt back in Sunday school. I know that is a hard thing to swallow, but it just does not concern Him.

I hear people say that there is no God because there is pain in the world, injustice, and sin... but we can only be good if we have overcame the temptation to do evil ... we can only appreciate immortality if we first must die... we can only know happiness if we have suffered... I hope this is coming across the way I want it to.

I know what you mean about some islanders in the 1500's dying and going to hell. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that you have to be a Catholic or a Baptist or whatever to get to heaven. I personally think there are going to be all kinds of folks there, and not just Christians. Organized religions are nothing but businesses selling after-life insurance, and they all trade on name-brand recognition. That's why every religion says it is the "only way to heaven".

Half my ancestor's believed they would go to the Happy Hunting Grounds to be with the Great Spirit when they died. I'd like to think that some of them will be there waiting for me when I go, too.

 

[DiGenius]

So which man-made god do you believe in????? I'm tired of hearing this absoloute truth shit....like any of us can answer it. This debate will go on as it has for the last 5000 years.....NO ONE HAS FIGURED IT OUT and no one will figure it out. The majority of religion and religious structure is to socially control and condition people and to comfort those into believing their life has meaning and if they follow what this person is selling they will never die....the promise of eternal life. I cannot be sure if there is a God or if there isn't, or if this great God that watches the entire universe would even give a shit about what any of us ants does on a daily basis. Just another perspective on it. Sometimes you have to step out of what you've been told and realize that things aren't that simple.

 

[9cyclops9]

DiGenius, koooky wasn't asking what religion we belong to. He was asking about belief in a god or God. I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to understand that there's a difference between belief in a supreme being and membership in any particular religion.

 

[DiGenius]

Just for you I'll edit out the parts that involve in anyway the concept of a religion...so my message is not convoluted by the fact that I mentioned religon.

This debate will go on as it has for the last 5000 years.....NO ONE HAS FIGURED IT OUT and no one will figure it out. I cannot be sure if there is a God or if there isn't, or if this great God that watches the entire universe would even give a shit about what any of us ants does on a daily basis. Just another perspective on it. Sometimes you have to step out of what you've been told and realize that things aren't that simple.

 

[thefranchise]

Nothing moves the blob

 

[Kal-el]

Kooky, the reason behind why "God" put to death all or some of the Hebrews' enemies is because in the old testament, "God" promised Abraham many descendants. And he also promised that out of those descendants would come a "messiah", a man who would give his own life on behalf of humanity. The old testament was definetly an "eye for an eye" time. He had to lead the Hebrew's to victory and salvation to preserve that family line from which Jesus would come.

 

[derringer57]

I'm tired of hearing this absoloute truth shit

Absolute truth does exist, it is self evident and any logical person believes that.

I personally think there are going to be all kinds of folks there, and not just Christians. Organized religions are nothing but businesses selling after-life insurance, and they all trade on name-brand recognition. That's why every religion says it is the "only way to heaven".

Im sorry, but it IS possible for NO religion to be correct.

BUT.

It IS IMPOSSIBLE for all of them to be right, many contradict each other and cannot be right.

 

[Shithead]

Absolute truth does exist, it is self evident and any logical person believes that.

there is absolute truth, but it is impossible to ever have.

 

[dreams_21]

hello
It is my first reply and i 'd never thought that i'll find some discusions like that right here but i like to join any way!!
first Kooky...When you think about pepole who died in egypt don't think about inosent pepole - by the way i'm egyption- that lost thier lives 4 no reason ......there is always a reason (fair reason) in God's mind even if we didn't know it!!! it is all about trusting god!!! and 4 jop's he was a good man that been examed by god to show you the way how faithfull pepole dealed with god ... and i think that u are not sad 4 his sons and daughter more than he did but what??? he thanked GOd because he belived and trusted him and remember how god rewarded him on earth .
and here is the happy news Jesus christ stoped the complaining of satan about us to Lord.
and u have to think that when body dies it is not the end ...the is a raiseraction and a eternity life .... so 4 good pepole thir dieng is not bad 4 them because will enjoy the heaven with Jesus angels the father saints.

5. I was always taught that if a person died in the modern age(AD) without Christ as their savior they went to hell. Babies and mentally retarded people excluded. Everyone else, tough luck. You die and not saved, your going to hell. This always seemed pretty horrible to me. Lets say you have a tribe of people living on a very small island. It's in the 1500's. They have never encountered ANYONE else not from thie island. They of course over time have developed their own religious system based on what effects them on a daily basis..the sun god, the ocean god, the plant god...whatever. Then, an underwater volcano erupts and they all die a horrible death from all the lava. Everyone. Their is not one person left from their small civilazation. You are going to tell me that God sends all these people straight to hell? Even the "good ones" who took care of their families and were pretty upstanding morally in their community? So it's all their fault they have never heard of "THE GOD" or Jesus or the Bible?

i don't know how did u got those thoughts ...are u sure of getting religious education ....why didn't you ask your teachers!!!!instead of asking pepole joined 4 their penises!!!!!
any way kids and mentally retarded person have no sins so they don't need a savior ( jesus christ) pepole who died before christ or hearing about him will judged as they done in thier lifes ...i think that no one now never heared about the christ and the cross!!!!!!

Well, these are just a few of my thoughts on the God of the Bible. I happen to believe that their is a "God", but it is very hard for me to believe that he cares so much about us or is involved at all with us considering all the terrible things that go on around us everyday. I read somewhere that 100,000 people died in the last year due directly to drought...No rain from god, so 100,000 people die. amazing. How many children are kidnapped and raped and murdered every year? How many children are raped by "men of the cloth" every year? It's kind of scary when you think about it.

don't compare our limitted wisdom wis God's un limitted ones .... the bible it self told us and daring us -sorry iwas thinking about my penis so i don't remmeber where it is -that (who knows the thoughts of God and who was his consulant) sorry for my poor transelation because english is not my mother tongue.
at last i like to tell that the car can contain you but you can never contain the car ...so don't compare ..ok have a nice day and thin about your own savior -if you have one- as i think about how did jesus christ died on the cross after he had pained and insulted 4 us.

 

[Kraft]

God is dead, and we have the body to prove it: http://www.devilducky.com/media/45320/

Anyone who's read the Jesus thread knows where I stand. Become more pragmatic since then, but still an atheist. Man made all the gods. In terms of living, as said to Napoleon, "Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse".

 

[Girthius]

If you really want answers to all this and more, you need to unlock the little door to your subconcious mind!It is here that all answers lie in wait, along with many extraordinary gifts!

 

[penguinsfan]

1. If we have "freewill" then why did God "harden pharoah's heart" several times when Moses kept coming to him? It seems to me that Pharoah would have changed his mind had not God "harden his heart"

Interesting enough question. It does afterall say that God hardened his heart.

2. Same story....Why would God kill ALL of egypts first born sons? I am sure a LOT of those families had nothing at all to do with the current situation between God, Moses and Pharoah, but yet God slaughtered untold numbers of innocent children and I am sure some adults(all first born sons). This seems really, really barbaric and paganistic if you ask me.

Easy question. God has a very brutal, vengeful side to His nature. People that think they can "do whatever they want" as long as they're "basically good people" as the ones that kid themselves.

3. Why would God tell a man to sacrifice his son? And he had to do it himself? Granted, a lamb was later provided at the last minute but c'mon, to tell a guy to do this??? Once again, it seems very barbaric and paganistic to me.

4. Why would God let Satan totally destroy Job's life on a "bet"??? This seems way out there...You can do anything to him but take his life. So Job loses his entire family because God wanted to prove Satan wrong? Wow. Talk about needing some self-justification. O, in the end Job got another wife and more kids, but does that mean they replace the hurt and pain he felt of losing the first ones?

Fair enough. Those are hard things to understand.

5. I was always taught that if a person died in the modern age(AD) without Christ as their savior they went to hell. Babies and mentally retarded people excluded. Everyone else, tough luck. You die and not saved, your going to hell. This always seemed pretty horrible to me. Lets say you have a tribe of people living on a very small island. It's in the 1500's. They have never encountered ANYONE else not from thie island. They of course over time have developed their own religious system based on what effects them on a daily basis..the sun god, the ocean god, the plant god...whatever. Then, an underwater volcano erupts and they all die a horrible death from all the lava. Everyone. Their is not one person left from their small civilazation. You are going to tell me that God sends all these people straight to hell? Even the "good ones" who took care of their families and were pretty upstanding morally in their community? So it's all their fault they have never heard of "THE GOD" or Jesus or the Bible?

I'm pretty sure this could be answered by what the Catholic Church calls "Baptism of Desire" which is essentially you were a good-hearted person that had never heard the truth and would have accepted it had you heard it. Many others within Christianity believe something similar.

Well, these are just a few of my thoughts on the God of the Bible. I happen to believe that their is a "God", but it is very hard for me to believe that he cares so much about us or is involved at all with us considering all the terrible things that go on around us everyday. I read somewhere that 100,000 people died in the last year due directly to drought...No rain from god, so 100,000 people die. amazing. How many children are kidnapped and raped and murdered every year? How many children are raped by "men of the cloth" every year? It's kind of scary when you think about it.

As Forrest Gump said, "shit happens". God does not answer every single prayer the way one would like. If it were so, any one of us would effectively be His master, not the other way around. I think God does not want a relationship of coercion with mankind. If only the greatest of things happened in our lives, when serving God, and the harshest of things would happen otherwise, the whole world would be serving God...but very begrudingly. As it is, one may do so with the hope of blessing, but not the guarantee of them.

I am no expert of any of this stuff. I have always said that life is like a good game of Texas Hold'Em. There is a very real luck aspect to it, but also an element of skill. Sometimes a person has all the luck in the world and makes good choices with it and there you have someone like Bill Gates. And sometimes a person has little opportunity and does poorly on his choices to top it all off. Drive to the slums of the earth and you'll probably find some of those folks. Maybe God influence the luck aspect or the choice aspect, but I'm sure only to a small extent on either end.

 

[British prick]

It's very hard to believe in god when.

Your, My, daughter was forty five and a registered nurse. She was a single mother, with a 16 year old son. On May the third, she passed away with brain cancer, She suffered for almost year before she died.

 

[notoriousDICK]

Discussions on God. I love it.

I thought I was the only one who would be into Penis Enlargement but "secretly" a Christian.

Well, with that being said, I would like to offer a thought to Brit-

Having had a brother born with an extreme form of mental illness and having two autistic cousins, I saw firsthand the effect of these diseases on my family and even a damaging effect on my own parents' marriage.

My job (I work at a hospital) allows me to see the elderly, the dying, young children with terminal diseases, and burn victims.

But I think when you ignore God, you ignore all hope. What can athiesm hope for?

If there is no God, then this awful earth is as good as it gets.

Sure, there are good things, but as a result of sin, there is evil - even natural evil (diseases, etc.)

I'm not going to get into a theological treatise, so I would suggest talking to a preist/reverend/pastor.

I hope this helps. If it does not, I will still pray for you.

Regards

 

[More Meat]

From my obeservation lo these past 24 years, there is no reason to believe that there is a god. It is an archaic notion that people still hold onto in order to give their lives meaning. People dont want to believe that they happened, their existence, out of pure coincidence and therefore their existence is pointless. To most, life must have a grand scheme, an outline, creator and a controlling force. You may as well worship a pair of dice over your cross, as nothing is in control; everything is random.

Erace your god and put yourself in control

 

[Kal-el]

It's very hard to believe in god when.

Your, My, daughter was forty five and a registered nurse. She was a single mother, with a 16 year old son. On May the third, she passed away with brain cancer, She suffered for almost year before she died.

That is the main problem theists face when describing their God. The Christian diety cannot be perfectly good AND all-powerful simeltaneously.