Old News Newsweek...decide for yourself

ISN SECURITY WATCH (20/05/05) - The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said on Thursday that it had warned Washington about “credible” reports that interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay military prison were desecrating the Koran long before Newsweek published its controversial report, which was later retracted amid government pressure.

An ICRC spokesman told reporters on Thursday that the group had warned US officials of allegations made by detainees between 2002 and 2003 that US military personnel were desecrating the Koran to insult the Muslim prisoners there.

Spokesman Richard Boucher acknowledged on Thursday that the ICRC had warned the US State Department of the allegations, and that the Pentagon had responded to the warnings in 2003 by issuing strict guidelines on the treatment of the Muslim holy book by US military personnel, CNN reported. But ICRC spokesman Simon Schorno said the allegations had continued after the issuing of the guidelines.

“We have very extensive guidelines about how Korans are to be handled, who they're to be handled by, the wearing of gloves, how they’re to be moved and transported, in order to ensure that no such concerns will arise,” Boucher told reporters.

Schorno said the ICRC felt the allegations were “credible”, and had formally documented them as such.

The Human Rights Watch group also said it had received reports from Muslim detainees at Guantanamo Bay that US interrogators had repeatedly desecrated the Muslim holy book.

The ICRC statement comes just after Newsweek magazine retracted a 9 May report that detailed the allegations, citing one source as saying that US military personnel had flushed a copy of the Koran down a toilet while interrogating Muslim prisoners.

The Newsweek report led to violent anti-US riots in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Indonesia, and other Muslim countries that resulted in at least 17 deaths. Under pressure from Washington, Newsweek apologized from some apparent inaccuracies in the report and retracted the story.

But Newsweek editor Mark Whitaker’s apology on Sunday was not sufficient for Washington, which requested an apology for and retraction of the entire report.
The Pentagon launched an investigation into the allegations of abuse of the Koran after the story appeared, but the chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Richard Meyers, said investigators had been unable to substantiate the allegations.

Whitaker said he had asked two Defense Department officials for comments on the report before it went to press, and that one had declined to respond, while the other had made comments about another aspect of the story without querying the Koran charges.

Newsweek said that only a single source was used for the information involving the Koran flushing allegation in the article, and that the government source backtracked on his former statement after the article was published, saying he wasn’t sure if it had really happened.

Many Afghans reportedly remain skeptical over the retraction, believing the story was only retracted under US government pressure and not over the inaccuracy of its content.
 
Right, the report was very damaging for being reported. That's about what it says to me. And the focusing on ideologies? And if torture or anything is going on that is horribly wrong the American people and the world has a right to know. If anyone wants to believe there hasn't been any "mishandling" of the Koran then fine. If you think that torture isn't taking place then fine. Noone can convince you otherwise. What was the ICRC created for in the first place? Answer that one. Regardless of "ideologies" members of the ICRC have plenty of reason to think what they may. It's their job to make sure the Geneva Conventions are honored.
 
Let's see... American Trade Center Bombing and total destruction

vs

somebody flushed a book down a toilet



My mother always said, "Don't pick a fight if you can't take a few lumps."
 
That's not the point Kong. The point is American news is being suppressed more than it has been in a long time if not more than ever.

If someone is willing to believe that the torture going on is okay and equivalent to fraternity stuff and that all 68,000 plus detainees that were at one time detained were all guilty and none of them were tortured then he or she is naive. (there's about 520 detainees in Guantanamo right now) The U.S. wants to have free reign and no regulations or fair and full investigations by Amnesty or ICRC and it's okay with too many of our people. So as long as they're told everything is all right because "we're the ones administering the torture," it's all good because our government is the good guys, always. Anyone that wants to say America is number one and we do everything right (people don't say that but they do say things like well they hit us we've got to hit them back whatever it takes) needs to realize in these times the press needs to inform its people and keep the government in check. If you want to wear the label that says we're in the right then make sure that everything that is wrong is brought to the surface and those that do the things that aren't right are brought to justice.
Don't just blindly assume that what the White House or Fox News or CNBC has to say is the truth.

I certainly don't want to be blown up for something my government/military does and I'd dislike even more to be taken out of my home, questioned, held without charges, and sent to another country to be tortured in the name of catching terrorists. I'm pretty sure the "evil-doers" or the innocent people living in countries like Afghanistan don't like that sort of thing either. I'm sure they don't like military bases in their country or the tyannical or theocratic leadership the U.S. has historically endorsed and helped gain power. I don't even have to list the names of all the crazy's our government has backed because Hussein should be at the top of the list considering our most recent actions. I'm not critical of our government the way it was intended to be run, but I am critical of the idiots running the government.

Back to the point though.

Scott McClellan says Newsweek's story cost people's lives. Several similar reports had already been made well before this year and something like that somehow is the cause of riots in Afghanistan. Who killed the protestors? The protestors standing up for the same cause killed each other?No, fire was opened up on the protestors, which should have been the focus not the Newsweek article. One would have a better case that the reports of Afghani deaths had something to do with the lives lost in other countries like Pakistan, but even then who was it that killed protestors there. No, we instead focus our attention on how Newsweek cost 15 lives in Afghanistan reporting something already reported instead of the fact that the area is so out of control still that people are opened fire on just like that. Of course it's all Newsweeks fault for not seeing all the good things being done in the Middle East. If the White House had its way the American public would believe a Carebear was the President of Afghanistan.
 
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Good post, 8inches. It's funny how in this case (and in the Delay scandal) the most strident pro-Bush republicans resort to attacking the sources that gather or report information. Is the Red Cross considered anti-American yet?
 
kong1971 said:
Let's see... American Trade Center Bombing and total destruction

vs

somebody flushed a book down a toilet



My mother always said, "Don't pick a fight if you can't take a few lumps."

And if they were shitting on bibles or toras it wouldn't be considered cruel and unusual? Aside from the journalistic repression the point of the matter is that we can't debase ourselves when dealing with those whom we consider to be our enemies. It dirties the freedom and ideals that we claim to value. And we can't condemn the treatment of opressed people in other nations in good conscience when this is going on with our knowledge and on our behalf. This is not something that I want history to say my country approved of doing.
 
Yet it obviously is approved of by people in this country Kazan. It's weird, yet ever so slowly it's becoming somewhat of a disease.

I just hope we're over a million strong on 9/24. I'd imagine in total we will be, but to see that many people together in D.C. would really be something. It'd be nice to agree on what's obviously right in this country for a change.

And redShift I believe the ICRC is on a list now.
 
If an Christian were being held hostage and they were pooping on the Bible, so what? I wouldn't consider that torture. Physical ABUSE is another thing. Now where the line is for what one would consider abuse varies from person to person...
 
If a Christian were held captive they would probably make a film about cutting his head off and mail it to his family...oh wait...they already do that. Then again, that's probably part of the right wing conspiracy.
 
Let me chime in here, this Koran flushing episode is just a rallying cry for extemists (and otherwise?) over in the Mid East who should be blaming their own regimes for their current plight. Whatever so-called persecution Muslims/the Koran have weathered during their history, it dosent hold a candle to the widespread attacks on the Bible and Christianity since Christ walked the earth.
 
soyelmocano said:
If an Christian were being held hostage and they were pooping on the Bible, so what? I wouldn't consider that torture. Physical ABUSE is another thing. Now where the line is for what one would consider abuse varies from person to person...

Well, to them apparently it's a big deal, but the point was that the administration would rather have people believe that sort of thing just doesn't happen. Then someone made the comment on the torture going on was just boys being boys like in a fraternity. He obviously hasn't seen pictures that the U.S. media won't show.
 
Kal-el said:
Let me chime in here, this Koran flushing episode is just a rallying cry for extemists (and otherwise?) over in the Mid East who should be blaming their own regimes for their current plight. Whatever so-called persecution Muslims/the Koran have weathered during their history, it dosent hold a candle to the widespread attacks on the Bible and Christianity since Christ walked the earth.

This is where we get into trouble here. When we start comparing plights or talk about things like which religious people have been more persecuted through time the real problems, the current problems don't recieve attention.

Once again, the point of the Newsweek story was that they were reporting something that has happened and probably will continue to happen, yet it was made out by the administration like it was the cause of the all the problems in the Middle East for that week. McClellan even said the story had serious consquences and that it cost people's lives. The funny thing is that he said about a week later that he never said that, yet you can find it online. I think it was the 17th or something that he said it. Not sure though. I found it last night if anyone wants comfirmation on how much of an ass he is. The other point about what this Newsweek ordeal is that it shows just how willing the administration is to place blame anywhere other than on itself. They'd rather have us not have any real news and when the real news somehow makes its way here they'll say it's false and divert the attention of the people from the real story and its significance.

The significance is that they suppress the news so that you can't focus on the fact that innocent people have been detained and tortured (it's bad enough this country practices torture and it is tolerated) and that protestors in Afghanistan were opened fire on, which resulted in 15 people dead, (if it were 100 or 1000 our media and administration probably still would have spent as much time focusing on Newsweek and how terrible it was to report what they did).
 
There is no such thing as the free press/media anymore. It's ALL government run, and the places that arent, are considered bullshit. Newsweek could have been right, but the govt pressure is so much as to make them back off.

Say what you want about Penis Enlargement englargement here, until its in one of the big market news columns, it's bullshit and not true. Thats the majorities mindframe anyway.

We see/hear in the media what the government wants us to see/hear. Thats why they hate the internet so bad. Its free speech for everyone.
 
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