My Email to MSNBC

[Kal-el]

Does anyone even watch MSNBC? They have these questions of the day, and a poll where you can email your response so I did. The question was is the allegations of torture overstated at Guantanamo Bay? Here's my reply:

Hell no there not, more and more every day GITMO is looking more like Auschwitz, where tortures take place, abuses, amputations by unqualified personnel, Guantanamo Bay is nothing more than a concentration camp.

Somehow I doubt they will put that reply on tv.

George Bush and his establisHydromaxent had already planned to disregard the Geneva Convention as they did, and they will continue to do so, until there is strong international pressure to get them to sign an agreement allowing their military personell to be judged by the existing Court of Justice for war crimes.

The only way the US can prove to the world, especially the Arab one, that they do not support torture, is to finally sign this international argreement, as have already done the 90 most important countries of the world. Further refusal of liability to sign this is proof that the US wishes to continue the use of torture and does not respect the Geneva Convention. Their pretense to be against torture by prosecuting the people responsible for torture in their own "military tribunals" and handing out weak sentences such as 1 year's confinement, without even losing rank is a mockery of justice. It is exactly the same as if the Nazi criminals had been judged by German members of the national socialist party instead of at Nuremburg. If America wishes to be a model for the rest of the world, it must NEVER use double standards.

 

[Duppi_KronKite]

I have seen this documentary which detailed the treatment at the Gulag. The documentary was OK aside from the fact that it started by showing naked men getting tough love.

Definately was not beat off material by any means. If you are like me, when you see a naked man on your TV screen you gotta go to ur computer screen and watch AT LEAST 15 min of top shelf adult entertainment.

 

[LambdaCalc]

The Nazi prison camp comparrison is getting really old. Are we gassing large numbers of Arabs? Are there mass graves? Are we starving inmates? Are we rounding up random Arabs, loading them on a train and sending them to a concentration camp? Are we doing random brain experiments on inmates? The answer to all of this is no.

So, where do you get the idea that gitmo is anything close to auschwitz?

 

[Kal-el]

Originally posted by LambdaCalc:

So, where do you get the idea that gitmo is anything close to auschwitz?

I fear that the US is in the process of starting a global empire. As for GITMO, it needs to be shut down immediately, anyway for the record, Auschwitz was a democratically planned event- most of the Germans supported it, I can say the same for Gitmo. And you already know about the numerous tortures and abuses that go on there.

 

[LambdaCalc]

What practices at gitmo upset you the most? As far as treating the prisoners like animals, making them bark, playing christina aguilera/barney..., false drownings...is cceptable. As long as nobody is putting them in acid rooms, shredding body parts, torturing genitals...common Arab stuff, what's there to worry about? Don't get me wrong, the more serious charges should and are being investigated.

The global empire thing seems ridiculous to me, but if it happens, you can tell me 'I told you so'.

 

[Priapologist]

...Auschwitz was a democratically planned event- most of the Germans supported it...

Really? So you allege that the Fascist dictatorship of the NAZI party held a democratic national referendum to poll the average German citizen for their input into planning Auschwitz? Have you got evidence to back up that claim?

 

[Priapologist]

I fear that the US is in the process of starting a global empire.

Please elaborate on this, i.e. logistics, rationale, domestic support, international allies, etc cetera.

 

[Duppi_KronKite]

The Nazi prison camp comparrison is getting really old. Are we gassing large numbers of Arabs? Are there mass graves? Are we starving inmates? Are we rounding up random Arabs, loading them on a train and sending them to a concentration camp? Are we doing random brain experiments on inmates? The answer to all of this is no.

So, where do you get the idea that gitmo is anything close to auschwitz?

Well the US government is not gassing arabs but they sure as hell aint gettin em quality pussy. Hell in one of the reports it states the arabs were forced to have sex with prostitutes who were mensturating (having their bloody sunday). Other reports said they were being raped and sodomized with large objects.

Inmates are starving and the different types of torture they use there blows my mind. Most of the arabs being sent there have nothing to do with anything so yeah you could say they are random.

My question to you is, if they will do this to the dirty arabs (so they call them) what are they going to do to their own people when shit hits the fan?

 

[redShift]

Kal-El, you're reaching. The U.S. will not even attempt to set up a global empire. Such a feat would require, at the very least, absolute military dominance over every other competing power. Even at this point in time, we are too cowardly to pursue North Korea or Pakistan, and too embroiled in dirty business with Saudi Arabia and Israel to assert any sort of military dominance over the other world powers. Granted, our military is an awesome force, but it seems like the mere presence of nuclear weapons in competing countries turns us into a drunk frat boy shouting racial slurs to the guy across the bar.

Any I concur that Nazi allusions are in horrible taste, besides being woefully off point and a childish use of hyperbole.

 

[Duppi_KronKite]

Stop talking about the US like it is a soverign country. See it for what it really is. I admit I do not like what America has been doing but I do not hold the American people to blame. I just think the US wishes they were the UK cuz our whores are slutty.

America no longer represents the people who occupy it but the corporations that bought it out. Almost like reverse facism.

If America/Corporatism takes over the globe and I still get my weekly quota of pussy, they can put me in the dirtiest prison camp an I'll be smiling.

 

[soyelmocano]

Yeah, I heard a report that said that the AC had been turned down so that it was cold enough to make the inmate shivver. Another time, it was turned off and the temp was about 100 degrees F. Oh the inhumanity. There are people all over Cuba that don't have AC and it is 100 degrees. As for the cold, so what? No physical harm would come from this discomfort.

Maybe we should send the Hiltons down there to build a hotel with a pool and floating tiki bar, and Paris could go down and "go down". I'm sure the US would get bashed then because we used a cheap rum in the Mojitos (I truly believe that Bacardi would be cruel and unusual punisHydromaxent).

There are a lot of other places that do much worse, that people should be more concerned with. (I don't personally think that anything wrong is being done there). There are people whose normal LIVING conditions are not as good as these prisoners. Worry and do something for them.

 

[Duppi_KronKite]

From the documentary I seen, they always fuck up the inmates with extreme temps.

Half way through it they took some young chap and stripped him down to his natural essence, tied his wrists to his ankles and made him squat for over 12 hrs. If that wasn't bad enough they had a cold fan blowing directly on him from the back and had these big earphones on his ear. The earphones were playing white noise (static) very loudly.

 

[REDZULU2003]

This sounds exellent, hope I see it.
Shall crack open some of my finest scotch to it.

 

[jGman]

Yeah, it's really ashame what we're doing to those poor bastards in Gitmo. How dare we take them away from their homeland, where they most likely would be dead by now anyway, by blowing themselves up and taking 25-50 people with them. Yep, it's definitely another slaughter of the innocents down there is Cuba.

 

[Kal-el]

originally posted by Priapologist:

Please elaborate on this, i.e. logistics, rationale, domestic support, international allies, etc cetera.

The US is continuosly attacking and illegally occupying foreign countries like Nicaragua, Panama, Grenada, Afghanistan, etc.- and Iraq. The title "secretary of Defense" should be renamed "Secretary of Offense", as sad as it may be, US policy is no longer about defense, but about invasion and occupation of very remote countries. You cannot talk about defense when you have a policy of invasion and occupation of foreign countries under the guise of "preemptive attacks."

 

[goodbutnotgreat]

The issue with Gitmo and our other detention centers is that we're using legal reasoning and justification for holding prisoners that is not very becoming of the world's leading democracy and most active proponent of free societies and individual rights. All the evidence seems to indicate that the military was given the mandate to employ torturous methods, imprisonment without trial or charges, and other things that we generally condemn from the very top tier of our government (Bush's new legal council is a big fan of torture and has argued tneaciously for its use, what kind of message does this send?) The secrecy, questionable tactics, and generally poor conduct that is being revealed and documented over and over again is a stain on our increasingly shaky international reputation and doing nothing to foster good will around the world. It's diplomatically a very poor way to go about things and just fuels the accusations of American hypocrisy.

IF we really are the strongest and richest country in the world, then we have better ways of securing ourselves then treating humans like animals and contradicting our own humanitarian values. As I said, it's a stain.

 

[Kal-el]

Originally posted by Priapologist:

Really? So you allege that the Fascist dictatorship of the NAZI party held a democratic national referendum to poll the average German citizen for their input into planning Auschwitz? Have you got evidence to back up that claim?

Pri, 70% of the German population was openly anti-semetic. The vast majority of Germans were ready to help Hitler put the Jews in concentration camps.

 

[TennisNut]

And isn't it shameful that the only military persons held responsible for the Abu Graib fiasco are low level soldiers and one woman in higher command. Also, in typical in-you-face Bush style he gave awards to those who were in parge part responsible for the mess in Iraq. You bet all of this is a big stain, and historical opinion will reflect that, I'm sure.

 

[Priapologist]

Kal-el,

You responded to them, but didn't answer either of my questions. Answers por favor?

 

[Kal-el]

Originally posted by Priapologist:

Kal-el,

You responded to them, but didn't answer either of my questions. Answers por favor?

Pri, if you would read the posts, you would find out I did try my best to answer your questions.

 

[Priapologist]

Pri, if you would read the posts, you would find out I did try my best to answer your questions.

I read your posts, which is how I determined that you didn't answer my questions lol

I just want to point out that you are making a lot of sweeping generalizations, without (apparently) having concern for the ability to validate them. This is the same kind of speciousness that I was chastizing Bib for the other day. If you want your argument to be taken seriously, you need to move beyond opinion and present facts that can be validated. You also need to be careful how you phrase things, since that can mess up the point that you are trying to make.

Keep writing!

Cheers!
Pri