Is it time to Bring the ****ing troops home?

[Kal-el]

As I am totally against this ficticious war, I realize that if we pull out immediately, Iraq will turn into utter chaos, where the likes of Abu Musab Al-Zarkawi will rain supreme. So I suggest about 6 months and then withdrawal.
Here's my timetable:

Only need to train the Iraqis - they need to send the soldiers out of the country for training. France, Spain, Germany, and others have offered (for a price) to train troops but Bush did not take them up on their offer.

Once enough has been trained, we provide equipment and guidance, and we hit the road.

There is virtually no training going on right now - they can't seem to be able to screen the volunteers, as soon as they get trained they defect to the other side or stay and act as a spy.

If Bush wanted to he could have enough men trained and equipped in 6 months - it is what the "commanders on the ground" wanted but were turned down by Bush & his hawks over a year and a half ago.

We owe it to the Iraqis to restore order as the least we can do. After all, we are the reason they have lawlessness.

 

[lee6]

Agreed.

 

[iwant8inches]

I do not know what the plans are exactly, but it sounds like even our "admirable" Defense Secretary believes out troops might be there for at least a decade. There aren't that many actually trained Iraqis and it appears that the U.S. military doesn't want to arm these men with adequate combat supplies the enemy...whoever that might be. With the torturing going on who knows how many more terrorists are being created? Every innocent that has been tortured is supposed to just go with it and thank us for doing horrible things to them? I don't think so. The Iraqis need to be trained fully and they haven't been. There will be a civil war there regardless of whether we stay or not. It already has started somewhat depending on how you want to look at it. The way the borders were drawn up those people were basically destined to end up fighting each other continuously. It's nearly impossible to understand how this can end well. I'd like them to leave within a year, but with all the contractors that are there and the investment/expected profit from this thing there is no way a complete withdrawal happens not within 6 months and not within maybe decades. What will this invasion have cost the world much less the U.S. by its end?

 

[Kal-el]

I do not know what the plans are exactly, but it sounds like even our "admirable" Defense Secretary believes out troops might be there for at least a decade.

A decade? That is totally unnaceptable. Ideally, we shouldn't even be there, I mean Iraq had the least terrorist connections out of every other country in the Mid East, but IMO we owe it to the Iraqi's to secure their homeland. We can always go home, but Iraq is their home, there's no where else for them to go. That is why we must stay until it is secure, because if it weren't for our unwarranted meddling in their affairs, they wouldn't be in this mess. I think right now, we should slowly reduce troop levels, but not withdraw all at once, as that would be irresponsible.

With the torturing going on who knows how many more terrorists are being created?

Yup, before this illegal invasion,there might have been a few hundred religious fanatacs ready to blow themselves to kingdom come in the name of their supernatural God, now, on the other hand, there's hundreds of thousands all over the Arab world who hate the West as never before.

 

[iwant8inches]

Kal-el, it's reality though we have to work with. I didn't want the war for the very reasons we can point to today. For one thing we would have to be there for a very very long time and I questioned many things, but the one thing I knew would be a factor was this country's patience and lack of understanding of what a war like this would mean. In other words...it'd be an easy sell considering our own country's atmosphere and isolation Most of the people here wouldn't understand why the troops couldn't just come home and be done with it like Desert Storm. It is impossible for the U.S. to withdraw troops at the rates we'd need to see any kind of difference in resistance to our presence there. The Sunnis want more power in the new government and Shiite and Sunnis are killing each other left and right. The Iraqis who would be there to protect and fight for the country itself needs to be in the hundreds of thousands before the U.S leaves. There will be probably around 150,000 plus troops there in December at one point with a time where troops there can be relieved. However, if anything happens to jeopardize this who knows how many more U.S. troops will actually be ADDED over there. Lima Co. just came home here though which makes most of us proud and relieved. It's...going to be a while unfortunately.

 

[iwant8inches]

edit- that should be INTO NOVEMBER not in December...

 

[Duppi_KronKite]

Yup, before this illegal invasion,there might have been a few hundred religious fanatacs ready to blow themselves to kingdom come in the name of their supernatural God, now, on the other hand, there's hundreds of thousands all over the Arab world who hate the West as never before.

It is the workings of the Silent Assassin only those with a third eye can spot him, when they see him they will understand that he was there the whole time. The Silent Assassin goes by the code name P20G.

In the far off land of the terrorists we must make things right. All the while the Silent Assassin is working against us. The land of the Terrorist is tainted for billions of years anything going in will come out contaminated. Beware of the DU and the experimental vaccines.

The war on terror will last hundreds of years. In times of peace the warlike man will attack himself and blame it on his enemies. You must use your quiet weapons for this will be a silent.. almost invisible war.

DK

 

[against_odds21]

Judging by the guard people it took from my town, I wouldn't mind them staying there for years.... lol

 

[REDZULU2003]

I would like troops to come home but as we went into Iraq and started what we have than we should finish it and get the country into a relative stable situation.
I've never agreed with going into Iraq but we are in their now and I dont belive in running away when it gets tough and the job needs doing so they must stay but it must be HARD for the troops, and I would not like to be in their shoes.

 

[Kal-el]

I would like troops to come home but as we went into Iraq and started what we have than we should finish it and get the country into a relative stable situation.
I've never agreed with going into Iraq but we are in their now and I dont belive in running away when it gets tough and the job needs doing so they must stay but it must be HARD for the troops, and I would not like to be in their shoes.

Agreed. But we did start this , unfortunately, and we must keep killing to prove that we were indeed right in the first place, because stopping and withdrawing requires infinitely more intelligence than starting in the first place.

Agreed again, I was totally opoosed to this war, as IMO it was waged on lies and without the support of much of the world, however, we really owe it to the Iraqi's to live in a secure environment. They had one before we stuck our ****ing noses in their business. And if we secure it, and by some "miracle" they adopt democracy. (I doubt it), we will have an important ally in the Mid East, which we so badly need. However, I definetly want the troops home, But cutting and running is not an option, IMO we should start reducing troop levels slowly, so little by little, the Iraqi's will learn not to depend on us so much.

 

[iwant8inches]

:s

Agreed. But we did start this , unfortunately, and we must keep killing to prove that we were indeed right in the first place, because stopping and withdrawing requires infinitely more intelligence than starting in the first place.

Agreed again, I was totally opoosed to this war, as IMO it was waged on lies and without the support of much of the world, however, we really owe it to the Iraqi's to live in a secure environment. They had one before we stuck our ****ing noses in their business. And if we secure it, and by some "miracle" they adopt democracy. (I doubt it), we will have an important ally in the Mid East, which we so badly need. However, I definetly want the troops home, But cutting and running is not an option, IMO we should start reducing troop levels slowly, so little by little, the Iraqi's will learn not to depend on us so much.

Now, see I think there are plenty of people that would like the freedom to elect leaders and have a representative government without the tyranny of warlords and clerics that are found in many countries surrounding Iraq. It just isn't the job of the U.S. to "bring" democracy to the world as our leader likes to say especially not through these means. I agree with you Kal-el in the slow withdrawal because that is the only way it can be accomplished effectively. At the same time I think a deadline of some kind would be a good thing as many have been saying for a while now. :s

 

[swolejah]

Being the radical Conservative that I am, of course I think our troops should be over there. Most of them want to keep order or whatever. Also having many friends over there of course I worry about them, but they love what they do.

 

[German Stallion]

I read some of these posts and some of you just don't get it. No one likes war. But it is either here or there and I would rather it be there. That is the bottom line. If they can, they will take out all they can here in the USA. It would be easy if we don't keep our guard up, to wipe out any number of things here in the states that would cripple us more than they have. So, wake up and smell the roses. Good grief, we have enough problems without having a war here. If you don't understand this, read some history books. GS

 

[Kal-el]

I read some of these posts and some of you just don't get it. No one likes war. But it is either here or there and I would rather it be there. That is the bottom line. If they can, they will take out all they can here in the USA. It would be easy if we don't keep our guard up, to wipe out any number of things here in the states that would cripple us more than they have. So, wake up and smell the roses. Good grief, we have enough problems without having a war here. If you don't understand this, read some history books. GS

You're right, no one likes war, but it's not here or there as the hawks around Bush would have you believe. Why the **** did we attack Iraq? They were no threat to us, nor any of their neighbors, sure Saddam violated countless UN resolutions, but how many other countries are guilty of violating UN resolutions,and we look the other way? No WMDswere found, he used Chemical weapons in 1988, we looked the other way, provided them, funded him, gave him anthrax, and him and Donald Duck Rumsfeld were buddies. None of the 9/11 hijackers were at all affliated with Saddam's regime, actually 15 of the 19 were Saudi's, but on Bush's watch we will never attack Saudi Arabia, they're long-time business parterns of him. The attack on Afghanistan was justified in they were harboring Bin Laden. Iraq was not.

 

[Kal-el]

Kal-el, it's reality though we have to work with. I didn't want the war for the very reasons we can point to today. For one thing we would have to be there for a very very long time and I questioned many things, but the one thing I knew would be a factor was this country's patience and lack of understanding of what a war like this would mean. In other words...it'd be an easy sell considering our own country's atmosphere and isolation Most of the people here wouldn't understand why the troops couldn't just come home and be done with it like Desert Storm. It is impossible for the U.S. to withdraw troops at the rates we'd need to see any kind of difference in resistance to our presence there. The Sunnis want more power in the new government and Shiite and Sunnis are killing each other left and right. The Iraqis who would be there to protect and fight for the country itself needs to be in the hundreds of thousands before the U.S leaves. There will be probably around 150,000 plus troops there in December at one point with a time where troops there can be relieved. However, if anything happens to jeopardize this who knows how many more U.S. troops will actually be ADDED over there. Lima Co. just came home here though which makes most of us proud and relieved. It's...going to be a while unfortunately.

Yes, George HW Bush did not invade Iraq, and topple Saddam,as he only pushed back Saddam, as was sanctioned by the UN. Why can daddy follow the UN, but the son can't, as he violated article 51 prohibiting the use of force except when the UN Security Council had determined that there was a breach of a resolution, and all diplomatic means of enforcement had been used? O yea, that's right, he had no intent on following the UN.

 

[REDZULU2003]

[/QUOTE]But cutting and running is not an option, IMO we should start reducing troop levels slowly, so little by little

Agreed, if and when the coalition pulls out of Iraq it needs to be slowly.
I feel it will take such a long time with Iraq because of the such varied tribes like the sunnis, shiete's and kurds that they never really agree fully on any matter.
At the end of the day they need to realise that Suddam is GONE and the coalition DID do that for them and now they [the people of Iraq] have a CHANCE to get a decent life if they can work together, which is something I cant see. Suicide bombings will be something common IMHO but it isnt a reason why the coalition should stay in Iraq.
And the buisness about US troops selling dead body images for adult entertainment is just fuckin one step too far and just ruins all the good work others have done and gets Iraqis against us again and the haters more bullets. Tossers like that should be shot on site, they aint soldiers but fuckin cowardly monsters who are just as bad as the terrorists and dont belong in any army of men. Back to the main issue, the troops comming home....well no matter what anyone thinks, me including about all this we can all say that at least Suddam was brought down and thats at least something positive in such a deep sea of negativity.

 

[iwant8inches]

I am not sure, but the "government" in Iraq doesn't seem to be anywhere close to having legitimacy and it seems like this is something Bush has been keying in on for a long time more than anything. We don't hear so much about the WMDs so much as the SHIT that has started happening since the invasion occured such as those SUICIDE BOMBERS. I don't recall those kinds of things happening every day in Iraq prior to then. Yes, it is war, but the precedent the U.S. military and it's commander in Chief and sheep in Congress have created is something to keep in mind for future history books German Stallion. Just why the U.S. military needed to be in Iraq is still a bit too murky for the trouble going on there. Once again the blowing shit up at the cost of who knows how many lives so corporations can rake in future profits and rip off tax payers dollars is pretty underhanded and will be turn out to be the cause of cataclysmic events. Afterall, Rove does like to think he is helping to create the world's reality. You don't find it a little odd when key leaders of a country who stand to make a ton of money off a war are so eager to go to war with a country despite having very little solid evidence in their reasoning to attack it? The rest of the world didn't agree with this war and the countries that went along with it were reluctant. After 9/11 Bush basically told the rest of the world he's going to do whatever he wants and for the world to fuck itself. The world was ready to help the U.S. with whatever it needed to catch those responsible for planning 9/11. The great leader of ours points at Iraq and the world stands aside scratching its collective heads. Ontop of it all advisors and war strategists all told him what would happen, yet he basically forces Collin Powell to come out before the world with one of the weakest arguments for war we've seen full of speculation and lies. Way to be ahead of the curve fellas. It's nice to know every precautionary measure was taken for something that could have the kind of aftermath it has had and will continue to have THERE in the Middle East AND the rest of the world. Fuel was added to the fire for those that did want to do away with the U.S. and other moderate regimes in the region instead of collecting every possible resource to stifle any further attacks and catch those directly responsible for planning 9/11. Is it not important to catch Osama anymore or what? That should be the main focus still, but instead it's Iraq. (besides those that died in the attacks themselves...whom the President still refers to like they are still alive) If the real plan all along as to actually draw as many terrorists into Iraq not only is that reprehensible, but it isn't going to work what with the torturing and being there militarily killing innocent people causing Iraqis to want to kill U.S. soldiers. We've created more enemies than anything else and given them the opportunity to weaken the U.S. at home.

 

[[P]okey[B]ear]

we need to pull out cause we're in a no win situation. Like getting a blowjob from a chick with braces you just know it's not gonna turn out good.

 

[Kal-el]

It seems like due to our illegal occupation, at least 2 things are happening:
1) The Iraqi's want our troops out.
2) Our troops are contributing to the instability of the region.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...ll-cover_x.htm



http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050217-094301-1888r.htm



http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5217874/site/newsweek/

A slow pullout IMO is the sure-fire way to support the troops.

 

[iwant8inches]

Our soldiers are being killed...the ??? insurgants???...most of the jihadists there now WEREN'T jihadists prior to the U.S. invasion...really what was it that this invasion was for again? WMDs? now it was to change the middle east according to Condi Rice...

Civilians including children are being killed...about 39 more civilians killed by U.S. warplanes and helicopters...some were children. Hopefully, these world changers in power in this country will figure out a better way to help the people in say Iran and Pakistan revolt against their own shithead leaders. I can think of one way NOT to rid them of their problem. At least we can point to Iraq and learn that this is not the best way to help people. Killing innocent children usually isn't considered helping people.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051018/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq