Liberal vs Conservative, democrat vs republican

the republicans want to get rid of all the taxes on passive income like the estate tax, which taxes the estates of old rich fucks who die. They want to pass the taxes onto the working man through payroll and income taxes, etc.

I read in Alabama, if you make $30,000 a year, you pay about 11% in total taxes. And if you make $1,000,000 a year, you pay about 3%.

Alright, I'm tired of the conservatives.

Unless you republican conservatives can explain why we have 35 million people living below the poverty level, do not back up a failed system.

China has less poverty than we do! COMMUNIST CHINA! They're not the only one. Taiwan has a lot less than we do, along with South Korea. There are many more countries too, including just about every European country besides Great Britain.

I just learned of this number and it blew me away. There is no reason for this. We live in the richest country by far and 13% poverty is unacceptable.

And if I get some B.S. answer like "That is because they choose to live like that." Minimum wage is 5.15 and hour, which is WELL under the poverty level for even 1 person. Depending on how many dependants you have, 5.15 could equal 50% below the poverty level.

And you know, I just wanted to add.

www.costofwar.com

Check that out. 27 million American children could get health care for a year for the price of the war in Iraq. That does NOT include the rebuilding. Near 1 million affordable housing units could have been built.

Did I forget to mention the tax breaks that Bush gave the richest 1% could have easily paid for the war?

If you republicans say it is more important to take care of Iraq than it is for our own children, you need to be shipped over there yourself.

I don't want to hear about WMD or terrorist aid or anything else like that.

Originally posted by bigbutnottoo
I am a Capitalist. Not because I am rich, but because I am poor. I'll let you think about that.

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Uh, your parents are loaded and you're 18. How are you poor?

ok, I have to reply to this.

I read in Alabama, if you make $30,000 a year, you pay about 11% in total taxes. And if you make $1,000,000 a year, you pay about 3%

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I'm not sure about your numbers. Because I know that if you make $20,000 or less you pay NO taxes. If you make between $20,000 and $75,000 (around there) you pay between 10-20%. And if you make $100,000+, you pay at least 40% and sometimes even 50% after state excise taxes, et cetera. That means, that all the wealthy people are not only paying for America's upkeep, but they are also giving all the "poverty" stricken people a chance to save their money and do something with it.

Check that out. 27 million American children could get health care for a year for the price of the war in Iraq

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Yeah, for 1 year, big whoop! Those familes have already been on welfare and have had their livelyhood payed for for most of their life. Quit giving these people free money, me and my family had to work, why don't they have too?

Unless you republican conservatives can explain why we have 35 million people living below the poverty level, do not back up a failed system

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Please name this failing system, is it called free handouts sponsored by the left?

Minimum wage is 5.15 and hour, which is WELL under the poverty level for even 1 person. Depending on how many dependants you have, 5.15 could equal 50% below the poverty level.

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You can say thanks to all the illegal mexicans, or other illegal immigrants for stastisic. And as for our minium wage, we need to lower it. It's basic economics actually, the higher the minimum wage the less money there is to go around. The lower the minium wage, the more there is to go around. The higher we raise minimum wage the higher our poverty rates will go.

And Nexus, would you rather be rich or poor? It seems like you hate rich people and all your comments have something to do with "old white rich fuckers" or something. I hope that one day you can become rich and succesful through hard-work and see things from another point of view, instead of just wading in your own self misery.

oh my god your so ignorant. Did you know that about 15,000 children die everyday in the world because they lack essential things like proper food, clean water and health care?

And I hope one day I am rich, because we all know that the more money you have, the more your vote counts. But I have no misery, I just like to stick my opinions right up the tight conservative, right-wing ass. It gives me pleasure in my life of "self misery".

KRUGMAN: Let’s not – let me be semi-serious for a moment here. Alabama is a state in which if you earn $15,000 a year, you pay about 11% of your income in state and local taxes. And if you earn a million dollars a year, you pay about 3% of your income in state and local taxes. So I think the governor had a point. This is a grossly unfair system.

Thats the quote from an esteemed economist named Paul Krugman and I think his degree in economics if suffiecient. But I did mix up a few numbers but his quote clarifies, sorry for confusion. Oh and for all the conservative Christian Republicans out there, isnt taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor, the "Christian" thing to do? Isnt that a WWJD kinda thing?

Oh and bring back the Estate Tax. These rich fucks cant bring it to heaven, or in some cases hell. We need to fix this trillion dollar deficit, plus interest, that will get inherited to our children. Instead of passing it down like a old sweater for generations to come.

Oh and thanks for hoping I get rich Gellybird, I hope so too.

I really can't say that I'm either Liberal or conservative. My stance varies from issue to issue, but I definately lean more towards the liberal side of the scale.

I'm not sure about your numbers. Because I know that if you make $20,000 or less you pay NO taxes. If you make between $20,000 and $75,000 (around there) you pay between 10-20%. And if you make $100,000+, you pay at least 40% and sometimes even 50% after state excise taxes, et cetera. That means, that all the wealthy people are not only paying for America's upkeep, but they are also giving all the "poverty" stricken people a chance to save their money and do something with it.

Uh, I made around 20k last year and paid about 3k in taxes, do the math and thats 15%. I don't know where YOU are getting your numbers from.

Yeah, for 1 year, big whoop! Those familes have already been on welfare and have had their livelyhood payed for for most of their life. Quit giving these people free money, me and my family had to work, why don't they have too?

Uh, do you know how many middle class children do not have health insurance? It's not just 'welfare' kids. Many of those poor families DO work, but are not paid nearly enough.

Please name this failing system, is it called free handouts sponsored by the left?
Um, the failing system is called Laissez-Faire Capitalism. It sucks. I'm not for a complete socialist system, but a mix. Definitely against this "hands off" form of capitalism.

You can say thanks to all the illegal mexicans, or other illegal immigrants for stastisic. And as for our minium wage, we need to lower it. It's basic economics actually, the higher the minimum wage the less money there is to go around. The lower the minium wage, the more there is to go around. The higher we raise minimum wage the higher our poverty rates will go.

Why are you going to lower the minimum wage? People already cannot survive on minimum wage because rent is so high in this country. When you're spending a whole paycheck on rent, somthing is wrong. Land prices are insane and poor people cannot afford to buy land, so they are forced to rent. If you work 40 hours a week, you should be rewarded with a comfortable life. That is the American dream, and if you don't agree, you're a selfish bastard. Straight up.

And Nexus, would you rather be rich or poor? It seems like you hate rich people and all your comments have something to do with "old white rich fuckers" or something. I hope that one day you can become rich and succesful through hard-work and see things from another point of view, instead of just wading in your own self misery.

I will never become rich. Money doesn't own me. I would rather live happily and content than walk on poor people to afford a yatch. Right now, I cannot live comfortably because the rich abuse the working class to make themselves money. The less they pay us, the more they have to spend on next year's newest mercedes.

Greed should be against the law.

Originally posted by Spektrum
China has less poverty than we do! COMMUNIST CHINA!

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I don't know where you dream that stuff up.

First, the average wage, purchasing power parity, in China is 1/10th that of the US. (GDP/work force)

Secondly, China adopted market reforms in the past 20 years, so the economy is no longer state controlled in the communistic sense.

In the last decade or so, the distribution of wealth in China has shifted as in other market oriented systems -- now 5% of Chinese wealthy control 50% of savings deposits.

The engine that brought them out of universal poverty, capitalism, is the same one that rewards success and therefore makes wealthy people.

No doubt they will eventually succumb to the temptation to equalize income again -- but that'll stop their economic progress.

Finally, poverty measures are relative.

Originally posted by Spektrum
Greed should be against the law.

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You can only make success against the law -- which seems to be the habit of socialists everywhere.

Originally posted by bobbdobbs
I don't know where you dream that stuff up.

First, the average wage, purchasing power parity, in China is 1/10th that of the US. (GDP/work force)

Secondly, China adopted market reforms in the past 20 years, so the economy is no longer state controlled in the communistic sense.

In the last decade or so, the distribution of wealth in China has shifted as in other market oriented systems -- now 5% of Chinese wealthy control 50% of savings deposits.

The engine that brought them out of universal poverty, capitalism, is the same one that rewards success and therefore makes wealthy people.

No doubt they will eventually succumb to the temptation to equalize income again -- but that'll stop their economic progress.

Finally, poverty measures are relative.

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http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_pop_bel_pov_lin

I didn't dream it up. America has a 13% poverty level, while the China has a 10%. We also have a lot more money than China, so what does that tell you? China has a lot less money, a lot more people, yet maintains a poverty level lower than the United States.

5% control 50% in China? That's not too bad. What is it over here in America?

Originally posted by Spektrum
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_pop_bel_pov_lin

I didn't dream it up. America has a 13% poverty level, while the China has a 10%. We also have a lot more money than China, so what does that tell you? China has a lot less money, a lot more people, yet maintains a poverty level lower than the United States.

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Ha ha ha. That's funny. Now look also under China's statistics.

52.6% of their population makes LESS than $2 a day.

That's about $750 a year.

The median family income in the US is about $40,000.

Originally posted by Spektrum
Uh, your parents are loaded and you're 18. How are you poor?

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No. I'm 24 and my parent is not wealthy. I refer you to my original statement and until you have something intelligent to say, please do not reply at all.

Originally posted by GellyBird
ok, I have to reply to this.



I'm not sure about your numbers. Because I know that if you make $20,000 or less you pay NO taxes.

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That's not true at all. You at least pay 15.2% in payroll taxes. Plus indirectly, out of every dollar spent, at least 40% or so goes to taxes. Heck, everytime I pump gas I pay about 60 cents in tax per gallon.

You would be correct in that the above example would pay no income taxes. However, payroll taxes have a cap, meaning that the working poor pay a higher %. A $million per year earner would only pay about 1/12 in payroll taxes %-wise.

Originally posted by Spektrum

And if I get some B.S. answer like "That is because they choose to live like that." Minimum wage is 5.15 and hour, which is WELL under the poverty level for even 1 person. Depending on how many dependants you have, 5.15 could equal 50% below the poverty level.

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They choose to have a minimum wage job.

Originally posted by Spektrum

If you republicans say it is more important to take care of Iraq than it is for our own children, you need to be shipped over there yourself.

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Neither. But it certainly isn't the government's job to "take care of children." If you think so, you need to ship out somewhere.

uuuhhh . . . i think people are confusing me with bigbutnottoobig.

bigbutnottoobig is the conservative asshole, i am the liberal asshole.

for some reason i don't feel like posting anymore on this topic, i love debating politics but this is just kinda like stealing my zest, i dunno. i will say that macroeconomic stats alone can't really make an effective argument one way or another, better things to look at are literacy levels, infant mortality, utilities access, ect.

as far as the tax cut, they work in favor of the wealthy, no doubt about it. analysts said that first thing when push laid out the plan, and it's been shown over and over again. tax structures can be murky as hell, but i don't understand why this gets aruged over so much because it's actually rather cut and dry.

that being said, i think it should be a top down tax structure where, indeed, wealthier people pay mroe taxes. my justification: people who make plenty of money can afford to dish out some extra as, opposed to all those stupid lazy poor people that like living in poverty (just want to clarify that is not a serious statement), who may have to forgego healthcare for their children and other such drastic measures unless they have superior tax relief, and i'm not talking about some vote grabbing $400 dollar kick-down, that doesn't do shit for society, it does win votes from stupid people.

goodbutnotgreat, dont stop posting, we need a liberal asshole. I think its agreed by all of us that tax cuts that favor the rich, is not fair.

It takes away from police officers, teachers, firefighter, and our troops. So if you support the troops, your shouldnt support these tax cuts for the wealthy.

If you want to change the subject, go ahead..

ya guys remember Bush's PR stunt on Thanksgiving to fly out to Baghdad? Did you know that the turkey in the pics of him w/ the troops was a fake turkey? What a dousch! And now a Halliburton subsidiary is being critized for feeding the troops "dirty food".

Originally posted by goodbutnotgreat
uuuhhh . . . i think people are confusing me with bigbutnottoobig.

bigbutnottoobig is the conservative asshole, i am the liberal asshole.

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I am a classical liberal, not conservative at politically.

Originally posted by bigbutnottoo
I am a classical liberal, not conservative at politically.

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Classic liberal as in liberal a century ago? Yeah, I'd buy that.

Liberal by today's standards? Yeah, right.