Bush or Kerry

Great Post!

kausion_420 said:

Aren't they both masons and were part of the skulls or sumthing anyway?

So in the end it wouldn't matter which one was elected because they would still have the same people telling em what to do.

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exactly

No, Bush is partly controlled by the oil and energy companies, etc, and the Religious Right. Who's Kerry got? Trial lawyers and hollywood celebrities?? I'd much rather pick 2 former trial lawyers, than 2 former oil executives.

Kerry was actually ahead in the polls, especially in battleground states like WI, FL, and PA. Even Arkansas had Kerry ahead. I saw it on Countdown on MSNBC, and they showed an electoral college landslide towards Kerry. But now b/c of this shit on Kerry's military service, he's down.

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Democrats are always 10 points up in international polls. ALWAYS. Gore was. If you are not up by 10 points or more in the national polls as a Democrat, you have no chance.

BTW, I might of said it once, but to those saying Kerry has an awesome war record, 2 things stick out in my mind.

1) He sent in a letter of deferment, but was denied, so he then enlisted so he wouldnt be drafted
2) He came back telling of all these atrocities yet never would name people

That first statement is just plain false, and not backed by any facts. You obviously never even watch poll numbers on the news. You basically pulled it outta your head or butt.

Every kid sent a letter of deferment. I dont see you enlisting to go to Iraq. Kerry sent a school deferment. Then after school, he enlisted and served 2 terms. One for 4 months, and the other for like 6 or so. So he volunteered twice.

He told of atrocities, that is true. Most of them happened, although not on a day to day basis, but some did happen that way. It was very hard to tell who was VietCong and who was innocent civilian. Much like Iraq. But anyways, in the 1971 speech that your refering to, he told of the "cutting off heads, etc" but he made it clear in his speech that he was told this by fellow Vietnam Vets in Detrioit. Atrocities happened, much documented, so dont act like there's not blood on the governments dirty hands.

Here's the speech actually IN CONTEXT!! Wow what a change! See www.factcheck.org for full.

"It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

"They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."

That swift boat ad is just like every other Bush ad, taking everything Kerry has done completely OUTTA CONTEXT!

Amen. Anyway, sephin, would you prefer if he did name names? I don't get your criticism. He was telling the truth as we all know. Looking back on the war with some historical perspective, we can see it was ugly on all sides and those who marched against the war were right. And all these people saying that those words, which they know are taken out of context, are more painful than any physical wounds, they deserve oscars. He accused no one in particular of anything, he just stated what others had already said (people with firsthand experience). So to act like he was accusing the people in these ads of war crimes is ridiculous, and these ads are among the lowest I have ever seen. What a shameless appeal to emotion.

And to think, it's all coming from the same group of pussy chicken-hawks that smeared McCain and Cleland. But this has been discussed so many times, we know how it goes.

By the way, you mentioned those two points in response to those who say he has an 'awesome war record'. How does the testimony take away from his war record? How does his attempt to avoid service (legitimately) take away from it? You're talking before and after.

First war, the hippies were ever right to protest Thank the hippies, this miniscual of good they did sure makes up for all the flag burning and anti-American rallies, harming our morale, they did in every other war which turned out later in history to be worth it.

sephin, seriously, you are either extremely under-educated, or extremely ill-informed. either way you are enhacing every stereotype of ignorance, that so many americans suffer from.

You are seriously mis-educated, mis-informed, or just plain bias. Either way I have come to say...

Doesn't Kerry have a head like a Shetland Pony?

More like an Ent from lord of the rings with all the wrinkles, til he went Botox

Lol which head are you talking about?

Sephin I don't see how your response makes any sense. Casey's basically got it right, you're kinda hopeless. You share the opinions of the un-educated, ill-informed, arrogant American masses. And then you call him biased, haha. He has his opinion, how does calling him biased do anything to undermine that? lol. Anyway, you just repeated what he said right back at him, way to go.

Seriously, your post on hippies made me barf. wtf?

I can't help it if there is a 4:1 retard to normal person ratio and Im a minority. Damnit, I thought your ilk are supre pro-minority! Damnit! Pitty me and give me a hand-out ok!? But in this case, just accept me. The only hand-out I ever wanted... ahhh im done lol

Oh forgot to add, Bush WILL win.

Time Magazine (liberal) has Bush 10-11 points AHEAD of Kerry.

Bush will be President 2004-2008 and I am taking any bets

One more thing about debates AC. You still running from Bib over in the "beginning of the universe" thread. If any of you people in opposition to Bib even started to debate with him, he would massacre you I am happy he holds my views

Haha nice dodge on the Time poll. If you are gonna dodge it, not smart to quote it.

I believe Swank addressed Bib's post and in my opinion disproved much of it.

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Lol... Um go check back, he did reply back to Swank and Swank has yet to reply back to him. Funny. The rest of your post is just banter trying to make me sound young and immature, because I think I am completely right on some things and that goes against your generalists, to each his own, philosophy. But its ok I can understand that.

"So take a stand, with your feet firmly planted nowhere." Just felt like saying that.

My facts might of been messy or all over the place, but it doesnt say they arent true. There was no debate to be won. I posted facts, statistics, measurements, links to all these sources, verses, etc, and you just flat out ignored them, only addressing them with lame statements all pretty much saying, "This is religiously biased BS, they are wrong," when you never really looked into them.

If you want to keep debating this subject, lets not hi-jack this thread, take it back to the other one, which I, Texan, and Longtom, all withdrew from, because your hypocritical close-minded and blind, side of the "debate", wouldnt take any of our facts into consideration, but would claim your own without a link or citation as complete 100% truth. Good day.

I'll be replying to Bib shortly sephin, I just want to make sure I reply to him with a mannered and well thought out response, as he would surely do the same.

You on the other hand, basically disappeared after I demonstrated that you don't even have a handle on the very basics of genetics and evolution, yet you enthusiastically argue against it. How can you say something isn't valid when you don't understand it in the first place? I doubt you will see the rather hilarious flaw in your reasoning there, but others surely will. I haven't seen you make one convincing argument on these boards, or really do much else except point to others and say "yeah, he's right, beat that!" or, more frequently, just be insulting to those that contradict your opinions (and they are little more than that). I usually just skip over your posts as they unfailingly contain so little actual content or information as to be worth the few seconds of reading time.

Do think Bib is really as pleased to have you hiding in his coattails as you are to be there?

I usually just skip over your posts as they unfailingly contain so little actual content or information as to be worth the few seconds of reading time.

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Hahaha... no wonder there was no debate, people like to belittle and skip over posts, but come back with generic catch phrases and hot words, they would use in any religious debate.

AC - I dont wanna spend much time going back and forth. All I can say is you never addressed one single fact I put forward. You clumped them all up and just called them false. Simple.

Ill await Swank's reply and see how that goes. BTW, you are the one making the big fuss and the one who brought up the other debate with...

Sephin is making quite a name for himself here when it comes to debates.

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I will give you that one for the sake of whatever.

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Can you just not address me in any thread in this forum for the sake of me? You are completely off base trying to sound snide and cocky, when it is really dumb, citing my "hippies" comment as pertaining to the old debate.

We are talking politics and about one of the biggest issues in US politics right now; the war. When I talk about hippies protesting wars, how does that refer to the other debate about the Beginning of the Universe? I dont mind if some person I dont know calls me less than intelligent, but when this person tries to bring up some former circus "debate", with some completely unrelated comment by me... that is truly an insult. Luckily it is funny enough I dont care too much.

Hmm you said

Sephin is making quite a name for himself here when it comes to debates.

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Now let me see how many debates I have been in in this forum... well if you count this one, that makes 2. You were trying to make a snide remark about this debate AND the old one. You cannot deny that. Therefor, you brought it up. Dont give me that whatever shit, like you are right, but will give this up and be the "bigger man" so we can stop the back and forth bs.

You brought it up.

Sephin is making quite a name for himself here when it comes to debates.

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I replied. You expounded upon it.

By the way which you could not do on your own, your facts and argument were messy and all over the place, your links were full of brainwashed crap science and your own bias view navigated your lowly formed view, which was funny at many points. I believe Swank addressed Bib's post and in my opinion disproved much of it. Bib did not have a counter to Swank's post as I have yet to see. By the way don't try to play Bib as your own personal mascot and helping pawn. Bib was very well mannered and really a truly respectful great guy in that debate. Bib also agrees with the freedom of choice and not pushing one's opinion on others.

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I replied again.

Then you go on to say

You made a statement about "hippies" in this thread. I found that laughable and misguided so made a comment about it here. If that means starting the old debate then ok, I will give you that one for the sake of whatever.

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When hippies has not a fucking thing to do with the other debate. And now you try and act like you are somehow right and do a little role-reversal here, telling me I am the one who is bringing up and perpetuating the old debate here, so you can act like your being mature and say you want to end the back and forth. Funny.

Do you even think about what you write?

sephin, honestly, your posts are usually very ill-informed and frankly, quite annoying. You always have to respond to some stupid comment w/ your own stupid comment. Let some things go, b/c they dont need a rebuttal.

This isnt Yahoo!Chat or something. How are other people supposed to even read these posts and make up their own mind, when you always have to stick your "rebuttal" after every response?? It makes posts lengthy and pointless, so nobody bothers to read the entire thing.

Just let some things go and shut up about hippies. This is not Vietnam era, and hippies are not the only people protesting. Not even most the people. (and dont reply to this post w/ some comment about "I didnt bring it up") You say you dont care too much, but your almost obsessed w/ responding to people who dont agree with you. Like I said before this is not a chat room, and dont post like it is.