Talking about collagen

[pardochan]

Tunica albuginea and ligaments,Very different tissues each one with its particularities and similarities to other parts of the body such as the coronary arteries in the case of the tunica albuginea or the Achilles tendon in the case of the suspensory ligament, but both are reinforced with collagen and if it decreases or lowers its quality, gains are made more easily, in fact it is much more difficult and counterproductive to make gains without taking this into consideration, any biomechanical work aimed at enlarging the penis is through deformation of the tunica albuginea (yes, deformation) or stretching of the suspensory ligament leads to a increase in the collagen relative to the force used to cause this growth, I want veteran members to share their experiences with chemichal PE and what they do to reduce collagen, decrease its quality or response to the biomechanical work of each day and give their opinion on the dilemma I find myself in lately,i am thinking about giving up cigarettes and nicotine from vapes in exchange for a few months or years of pentoxifylline given its effectiveness in cases of peyronie is proven, I'm in this dilemma because whether like it or not, smoking reduces collagen and its properties in several different ways, at the same time it slows down the recovery process of the ligaments (wich is good) while pentoxifylline ends up aligning the collagen and increasing its deposit in the ligaments (which is bad), although it reduces the concentration of collagen in the tunica albuginea and combats fibrosis.

 

[oldandlively]

Sorry we couldn't answer your question a bit faster on this matter brother. I was out and about and the ambient noises just killed any kind of dictation to proper text. The text came out all garbage like, "Collagen is..next in line please!" or "composition of subdermal requires..your chicken order is up!"

Since you've done your homework, let's break things down even further for you and the other brothers to understand as well. It's like a whole cake full of goodness in there, but the flavors are all mixed up like a densely packed flavor bomb.

Tunica albuginea and ligaments,Very different tissues each one with its particularities and similarities to other parts of the body such as the coronary arteries in the case of the tunica albuginea or the Achilles tendon in the case of the suspensory ligament,

Let's stop right here. Yes. The tunica albuginea and the ligaments are a very different composition of collagen materials all together than the rest of the other tissues. If anyone did their homework on biochemistry and biodiversity of the penile molecular structures, the suspensory and the tunica albuginea collagen compositions are comprised of 80% collagen Type I, the hard and rigid type, around 15% of collagen Types II and III, the slightly more flexible collagen type that allows shrinking and flexing during preservation shrinkage state, and the 5% Type III with the combination of other androgens where the most elastin that responsible for restoration and coating of the damaged Types I and II. Unlike the rest of the penile tissues with the Type II (the fascias, skin layers) and the softer tissues (Type III elastin), the Type I is quite rigid, with a uniform structural shape, compared to a honeycomb structure.

but both are reinforced with collagen and if it decreases or lowers its quality, gains are made more easily,

This statement is truly a loaded statement. Why? This statement is very true for fascial and breast tissues with lower Type I collagen and higher Types II and III, where collagen is easily assimilated for faster repairs and reproduction due to the higher mobility and counter-gravitational activities in proximity to the denser structural/skeletal muscle tissues. In other words, the penis is not like the face or the breasts in terms of its supporting movements as an upper supportive layer for the highly mobile dense skeletal muscles. The penis tissues are either hard when erected with supported blood volume, or soft when it's in flaccid or rested phases. It doesn't move with the limbs, supports the limbs, nor it acts like a limb. However, we wish it could be like the third arm or the tongue to truly do some fascinating things. That's going off-topic.

in fact it is much more difficult and counterproductive to make gains without taking this into consideration, any biomechanical work aimed at enlarging the penis is through deformation of the tunica albuginea (yes, deformation) or stretching of the suspensory ligament leads to a increase in the collagen relative to the force used to cause this growth,

I need to cut you off on this portion just a tiny bit. Yes, it does require deformation of the collagen structures, which we discuss constantly at length all the time here. Yes, we need to upshift (influence the chemical demands during a routine) or downshift (change the hormone influence during rest phases) to induce the growth rate. We are influencing growth rate by breaking down the various levels of cellular degradation and cellular regeneration. We are not influencing biochemical and biomechanical changes. We use both biochemical and biomechanical changes to trick the body to send biodiversified materials from other parts of the body, such as vitamins, minerals, oxygen, hormones, collagen production, and much much more to refocus on the penis. Biochemical triggers are caused by creating stresses along the tissues, maintaining those stress loads, generating alternative and dynamic biomechanical manipulation using different traction forces, and gravitational forces, and sustaining stress loads on the tissues at a constant state for a long period of time. This results in an influx of biological demands on the mind, requesting more resources to refocus on the penis, the last functional unit on the biological list of the human body besides waste evacuation and short-term procreation.

If you think reducing the collagen quantity to induce collagen quality, you're going completely backward. I'll explain further down.

I want veteran members to share their experiences with chemichal PE and what they do to reduce collagen, decrease its quality or response to the biomechanical work of each day and give their opinion on the dilemma I find myself in lately,

Let's bring in all the aforementioned and incorporate your answer. I know we have a few biochemical engineers and biologists in our midst. The same for a few professors and doctors of various fields. Chime in if you like. Your identities are still well protected.

Depending on the chemicals you use for PE, any chemical you use to degrade a collagen peptide will denature the quality of the collagen overall. If you denature the collagen, the body will reject the collagen and use any complex collagen peptide to break down the chain to the proper collagen fragmentation suitable for usage. You can have 100mL of collagen peptides available, but if only 1mL among the 100mL is usable, the 99mL is pure waste. When you use chemicals to break down the collagen peptides, you are turning that 100mL of that collagen peptides to 1mL of that usable peptides. If you're using quality chemicals to enhance collagen peptide formation, you are now fortifying the 100mL of uncertainty peptides to 100mL of available peptides for immediate usage. Quality vs quantity.

Let's bring in another perspective you may consider instead. Say you're a bodybuilder, or a woman searching for a skin-perfect beauty product, do you go to a store and purchase some off-the-shelf protein drink with promised crappy collagen or a lotion with some unknown chemically induced degrader with low-quality factors to use in and on the body? It will take 10x to 1000x time more collagen induction into the rituals to get the same quality collagen materials to buildup the muscles or generate the best Types I to III collagen for optimal growth and support that will cost you an arm, a leg, and possibly your penis to get.

To sum it all up, quality collagen is required to rebuild, and not degrade existing strong collagen and dump cheap collagen to repair. It's like breaking down a sturdy fortified stone fortress and using construction foam to build up a larger less sturdy fortress.

i am thinking about giving up cigarettes and nicotine from vapes in exchange for a few months or years of pentoxifylline given its effectiveness in cases of peyronie is proven,

If you take a few steps back, nicotine and the compounds used for vapes and cigarettes, including secondary burnt-off compounds (second hand smoking), not only destroy your vascular system, but also degrade key hormones that support your entire body function. Just cutting out vaping/cigarettes already gives you a better fighting chance with PE. However, the lingering of the various compounds from the period you've vaped/smoked required to be reduced from your system in order for your PE to be successful. When you mention pentoxifylline, yes, it will expedite the assistance by migration the compounds out of your bloodstream a bit faster, but at this point, how much is in your system for the drug to assist with the detoxification? This is where the phrase, "Only time can tell" comes into play.

Yes, Peroynie's disease is proven, and it's also proven that PE can help. But it requires you to have good clean health to bring PE into success. You can't eat, drink, and smoke craps and call PE good. PE, like any other lifestyle, requires a good and wholesome approach. You can't expect a marathon runner to be in peak condition with nothing but energy drinks and processed foods. @DLD excluded. That guy is a case of miracle on its own that we are all still scratching our heads on how he survived to this very point in life. If he donated his body to sciences when he moved on to the heavenly realm decades from now, we probably discover miracle drugs from his body.

I'm in this dilemma because whether like it or not, smoking reduces collagen and its properties in several different ways, at the same time it slows down the recovery process of the ligaments (wich is good) while pentoxifylline ends up aligning the collagen and increasing its deposit in the ligaments (which is bad),

I'm sorry to say, but this is putting the cart before the horse. There were many discussions like this in the past, and many have tried your methods of thinking even to this very day, but none of those came back and claimed that they were successful. Why? Because it's counter-logic, counter-intuitive, and counter-biological.

although it reduces the concentration of collagen in the tunica albuginea and combats fibrosis.

This is a whole different kind of game together brother. We can go into further details about collagen concentration to combat fibrosis and fibromyalgia, but the reverse statement is true where an increase of specific collagen assists with the recovery of nerves, renewal, and redevelopment of nerves, as well as new quality tissue growth to replace overabundant of useless low-quality tissue concentration. Fibrosis is like a massive arm with super strong muscle tissues that can't even move a few inches. This is where the reduction of collagen plays in your favor. The same is true with fibromyalgia, where there are weakened muscle tissues that do not support the nerves and blood vessels. In both cases, quality collagen to rebuild the tissues at a proper concentration is required. But that can be discussed in a different topic as it can get very intensive.

 

[DLD]

Sorry we couldn't answer your question a bit faster on this matter brother. I was out and about and the ambient noises just killed any kind of dictation to proper text. The text came out all garbage like, "Collagen is..next in line please!" or "composition of subdermal requires..your chicken order is up!"

Since you've done your homework, let's break things down even further for you and the other brothers to understand as well. It's like a whole cake full of goodness in there, but the flavors are all mixed up like a densely packed flavor bomb.



Let's stop right here. Yes. The tunica albuginea and the ligaments are a very different composition of collagen materials all together than the rest of the other tissues. If anyone did their homework on biochemistry and biodiversity of the penile molecular structures, the suspensory and the tunica albuginea collagen compositions are comprised of 80% collagen Type I, the hard and rigid type, around 15% of collagen Types II and III, the slightly more flexible collagen type that allows shrinking and flexing during preservation shrinkage state, and the 5% Type III with the combination of other androgens where the most elastin that responsible for restoration and coating of the damaged Types I and II. Unlike the rest of the penile tissues with the Type II (the fascias, skin layers) and the softer tissues (Type III elastin), the Type I is quite rigid, with a uniform structural shape, compared to a honeycomb structure.



This statement is truly a loaded statement. Why? This statement is very true for fascial and breast tissues with lower Type I collagen and higher Types II and III, where collagen is easily assimilated for faster repairs and reproduction due to the higher mobility and counter-gravitational activities in proximity to the denser structural/skeletal muscle tissues. In other words, the penis is not like the face or the breasts in terms of its supporting movements as an upper supportive layer for the highly mobile dense skeletal muscles. The penis tissues are either hard when erected with supported blood volume, or soft when it's in flaccid or rested phases. It doesn't move with the limbs, supports the limbs, nor it acts like a limb. However, we wish it could be like the third arm or the tongue to truly do some fascinating things. That's going off-topic.



I need to cut you off on this portion just a tiny bit. Yes, it does require deformation of the collagen structures, which we discuss constantly at length all the time here. Yes, we need to upshift (influence the chemical demands during a routine) or downshift (change the hormone influence during rest phases) to induce the growth rate. We are influencing growth rate by breaking down the various levels of cellular degradation and cellular regeneration. We are not influencing biochemical and biomechanical changes. We use both biochemical and biomechanical changes to trick the body to send biodiversified materials from other parts of the body, such as vitamins, minerals, oxygen, hormones, collagen production, and much much more to refocus on the penis. Biochemical triggers are caused by creating stresses along the tissues, maintaining those stress loads, generating alternative and dynamic biomechanical manipulation using different traction forces, and gravitational forces, and sustaining stress loads on the tissues at a constant state for a long period of time. This results in an influx of biological demands on the mind, requesting more resources to refocus on the penis, the last functional unit on the biological list of the human body besides waste evacuation and short-term procreation.

If you think reducing the collagen quantity to induce collagen quality, you're going completely backward. I'll explain further down.




Let's bring in all the aforementioned and incorporate your answer. I know we have a few biochemical engineers and biologists in our midst. The same for a few professors and doctors of various fields. Chime in if you like. Your identities are still well protected.

Depending on the chemicals you use for PE, any chemical you use to degrade a collagen peptide will denature the quality of the collagen overall. If you denature the collagen, the body will reject the collagen and use any complex collagen peptide to break down the chain to the proper collagen fragmentation suitable for usage. You can have 100mL of collagen peptides available, but if only 1mL among the 100mL is usable, the 99mL is pure waste. When you use chemicals to break down the collagen peptides, you are turning that 100mL of that collagen peptides to 1mL of that usable peptides. If you're using quality chemicals to enhance collagen peptide formation, you are now fortifying the 100mL of uncertainty peptides to 100mL of available peptides for immediate usage. Quality vs quantity.

Let's bring in another perspective you may consider instead. Say you're a bodybuilder, or a woman searching for a skin-perfect beauty product, do you go to a store and purchase some off-the-shelf protein drink with promised crappy collagen or a lotion with some unknown chemically induced degrader with low-quality factors to use in and on the body? It will take 10x to 1000x time more collagen induction into the rituals to get the same quality collagen materials to buildup the muscles or generate the best Types I to III collagen for optimal growth and support that will cost you an arm, a leg, and possibly your penis to get.

To sum it all up, quality collagen is required to rebuild, and not degrade existing strong collagen and dump cheap collagen to repair. It's like breaking down a sturdy fortified stone fortress and using construction foam to build up a larger less sturdy fortress.



If you take a few steps back, nicotine and the compounds used for vapes and cigarettes, including secondary burnt-off compounds (second hand smoking), not only destroy your vascular system, but also degrade key hormones that support your entire body function. Just cutting out vaping/cigarettes already gives you a better fighting chance with PE. However, the lingering of the various compounds from the period you've vaped/smoked required to be reduced from your system in order for your PE to be successful. When you mention pentoxifylline, yes, it will expedite the assistance by migration the compounds out of your bloodstream a bit faster, but at this point, how much is in your system for the drug to assist with the detoxification? This is where the phrase, "Only time can tell" comes into play.

Yes, Peroynie's disease is proven, and it's also proven that PE can help. But it requires you to have good clean health to bring PE into success. You can't eat, drink, and smoke craps and call PE good. PE, like any other lifestyle, requires a good and wholesome approach. You can't expect a marathon runner to be in peak condition with nothing but energy drinks and processed foods. @DLD excluded. That guy is a case of miracle on its own that we are all still scratching our heads on how he survived to this very point in life. If he donated his body to sciences when he moved on to the heavenly realm decades from now, we probably discover miracle drugs from his body.



I'm sorry to say, but this is putting the cart before the horse. There were many discussions like this in the past, and many have tried your methods of thinking even to this very day, but none of those came back and claimed that they were successful. Why? Because it's counter-logic, counter-intuitive, and counter-biological.



This is a whole different kind of game together brother. We can go into further details about collagen concentration to combat fibrosis and fibromyalgia, but the reverse statement is true where an increase of specific collagen assists with the recovery of nerves, renewal, and redevelopment of nerves, as well as new quality tissue growth to replace overabundant of useless low-quality tissue concentration. Fibrosis is like a massive arm with super strong muscle tissues that can't even move a few inches. This is where the reduction of collagen plays in your favor. The same is true with fibromyalgia, where there are weakened muscle tissues that do not support the nerves and blood vessels. In both cases, quality collagen to rebuild the tissues at a proper concentration is required. But that can be discussed in a different topic as it can get very intensive.

Thanks for this post. I could not say it better

 

[pardochan]

I'm sorry to say, but this is putting the cart before the horse. There were many discussions like this in the past, and many have tried your methods of thinking even to this very day, but none of those came back and claimed that they were successful. Why? Because it's counter-logic, counter-intuitive, and counter-biological.

there are several reports of smokers who gained from PE, I had gains before smoking and continued to have them after starting to smoke, if you could send the link to any of these discussions I would appreciate it, what I said was based on articles, it is a fact that smoking delays ligament healing and weakens ligaments and tendons which in theory would be beneficial for hanging, when I started hanging I was already a smoker so I can't say from my own experience, I gained 1/4 inch in bpfsl with 2lb in 3 months which took about of a year to be translated into erect gains, after this period I increased another 1lb and didn't make any more permanent gains, I recently increased another 1lb and I'm deciding which approach would be more effective, I'm thinking about doing vacuum hanging instead of compressed

If you take a few steps back, nicotine and the compounds used for vapes and cigarettes, including secondary burnt-off compounds (second hand smoking), not only destroy your vascular system

This is a good point, because if I could smoke and keep the endothelium and smooth muscle of my penis healthy I probably wouldn't be in this dilemma,I wonder if the key to increasing my gains could be more spontaneous erections, especially during sleep

 

[kriskros]

In my opinion, collagen is the reason you can have increased growth. Take, for example, one of the best Collagens out there: Bulbs Collagen. It's specific for the types that @oldandlively talked about. After a workout, if you take it, it will go to re-structure the collagen production in a good manner which is essential for PE.
Now, I love smoking too dude. I love it more than a pussy but... smoking means killing your efforts.
Unless you are young (15-28), You cant achieve rock-solid erections which are essential for PE.
But, thats only my opinion and I am not veteran.

 

[pardochan]

In my opinion, collagen is the reason you can have increased growth. Take, for example, one of the best Collagens out there: Bulbs Collagen. It's specific for the types that @oldandlively talked about. After a workout, if you take it, it will go to re-structure the collagen production in a good manner which is essential for PE.
Now, I love smoking too dude. I love it more than a pussy but... smoking means killing your efforts.
Unless you are young (15-28), You cant achieve rock-solid erections which are essential for PE.
But, thats only my opinion and I am not veteran.

I can only get completely hard and maintain an erection with cialis or viagra, without them even if I get hard I can't maintain an erection, I rarely have spontaneous erections without using anything, it seems to me that I damaged the endothelium more than I reduced the collagen in the tunica, if you search a little you will see an article known in our area about anti-lox

Anti-lysyl oxidase combined with a vacuum device induces penile lengthening by remodeling the tunica albuginea - PubMed

This study aimed to explore whether and how anti-lysyl oxidase (anti-LOX) combined with a vacuum device (VD) could promote penile lengthening and to evaluate the effect on erectile function. This study was performed on four groups of adult rats: control, anti-LOX, VD (negative pressure value of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

leaving aside aging the only accessible stuff that have anti-lox activity is cigarettes

 

[DLD]

I can only get completely hard and maintain an erection with cialis or viagra, without them even if I get hard I can't maintain an erection, I rarely have spontaneous erections without using anything, it seems to me that I damaged the endothelium more than I reduced the collagen in the tunica, if you search a little you will see an article known in our area about anti-lox

Anti-lysyl oxidase combined with a vacuum device induces penile lengthening by remodeling the tunica albuginea - PubMed

This study aimed to explore whether and how anti-lysyl oxidase (anti-LOX) combined with a vacuum device (VD) could promote penile lengthening and to evaluate the effect on erectile function. This study was performed on four groups of adult rats: control, anti-LOX, VD (negative pressure value of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

leaving aside aging the only accessible stuff that have anti-lox activity is cigarettes

cigarettes i guess are my anti-lox.

 

[Growing4Squirting]

am thinking about giving up cigarettes and nicotine from vapes

I occasionally vape when im in stressful mood, and one thing i noticed is my girth has suffered since i started ( not long ago almost two months, never did before nor consumed cigarettes).
Flaccid girth diminished a little bit so is the erected girth, and i haven't done any girth exercises before so this decreases is from my girth starting point.

 

[DLD]

I might try this too.

 

[Growing4Squirting]

Main reason is they're somewhat "cleaner" than cigarettes.
it has never been my way of dealing with problems but sometimes we fall short and can only take so much in life , i was always with God trough troubles and i pray that He makes it easy for us

I might try this too.

 

[DLD]

Jesus is amazing and when we lean on Him things happen. I will make the switch to vapping this week. I will pray for you as you pray for me

 

[oldandlively]

there are several reports of smokers who gained from PE, I had gains before smoking and continued to have them after starting to smoke, if you could send the link to any of these discussions I would appreciate it,

These discussions are in the medical and biochemical symposia, or discussion sites for medical, chemical, biological, and various other professionals. You can join in on the discussions if you like. You have to create accounts all over the place to get the discussions you need. Medscape is a great start for medical. CMA Docs is another one. Science Forums (net) is a great site where we come together to dump our info for discussions. SciencesConf (or worldwide sciences conferences) is a good hangout for those who drink too much coffee with hot topics. You have various worldwide top Ivy League universities discussion rooms you can also sign up for, including molecular and biochemistry hot demanded topics to sink your teeth into.

what I said was based on articles,

You want to base on publication articles, we can go there too.

Smoking affects collagen synthesis and extracellular matrix turnover in human skin - PubMed

Smoking decreases the synthesis rates of type I and III collagens in skin in vivo and alters the balance of extracellular matrix turnover in skin.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Nicotine inhibits collagen synthesis and alkaline phosphatase activity, but stimulates DNA synthesis in osteoblast-like cells - PubMed

Use of smokeless tobacco is associated with various oral lesions including periodontal damage and alveolar bone loss. This study was performed to test the effects of nicotine on bone-forming cells at concentrations that occur in the saliva of smokeless tobacco users. Confluent cultures of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1087002415305116

Cigarette Smoke-Induced Collagen Destruction; Key to Chronic Neutrophilic Airway Inflammation? - PMC

Cigarette smoking induces inflammatory responses in all smokers and is the major risk factor for lung disease such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). In this progressive disease, chronic inflammation in the lung contributes to lung ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002191501630065X

This is just what had been discovered in the recent days. We can go even more gruesome portions of collagen atrophy and biomolecular degeneration in more recent published articles if you like to read.

it is a fact that smoking delays ligament healing and weakens ligaments and tendons which in theory would be beneficial for hanging,

Yes, this is true, but that the same time, improper balance of weakened ligaments and tissues and weight loading can in fact injure your ligaments and tissues beyond repairs, or outpace the emergency repairs that result in cellular deformation to the point of unable to repair. You end up causing yourself your own Peyronie's issues.

when I started hanging I was already a smoker so I can't say from my own experience, I gained 1/4 inch in bpfsl with 2lb in 3 months which took about of a year to be translated into erect gains, after this period I increased another 1lb and didn't make any more permanent gains, I recently increased another 1lb and I'm deciding which approach would be more effective, I'm thinking about doing vacuum hanging instead of compressed

This is actually a common gain without having to go into the collagen degradation route. You will actually gain by promoting healthy collagen growth over degrading the collagen growth. Simple Type 1 and Type 2 collagen deformation through traction load manipulation, with lateral force contortion, is more than enough.

This is a good point, because if I could smoke and keep the endothelium and smooth muscle of my penis healthy I probably wouldn't be in this dilemma,I wonder if the key to increasing my gains could be more spontaneous erections, especially during sleep

To get erections, or sudden woods, that comes from having good testosterone concentration in your blood stream. Two of the brothers here that talked to me during the PE went into a secondary puberty stage for their penile growth. Their penile erections become so hard throughout the night and even during the day that they have to milk themselves constantly to reduce the amount of erectile tension. It's about playing smart with PE routines to invoke the body to promote new growths that induce the erectile quality you're looking for.

As @kriskros also mentioned, it's about the age range and the health lifeline you build up.

 

[oldandlively]

I can only get completely hard and maintain an erection with cialis or viagra, without them even if I get hard I can't maintain an erection, I rarely have spontaneous erections without using anything, it seems to me that I damaged the endothelium more than I reduced the collagen in the tunica, if you search a little you will see an article known in our area about anti-lox

Anti-lysyl oxidase combined with a vacuum device induces penile lengthening by remodeling the tunica albuginea - PubMed

This study aimed to explore whether and how anti-lysyl oxidase (anti-LOX) combined with a vacuum device (VD) could promote penile lengthening and to evaluate the effect on erectile function. This study was performed on four groups of adult rats: control, anti-LOX, VD (negative pressure value of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

leaving aside aging the only accessible stuff that have anti-lox activity is cigarettes

I remember this one, and it got dropped off pretty quickly. If you continued to research on it, you discovered that it was discovered through cancer patients. My brother was one of them. The collagen synthesis reduced, and he aged, like many others, 10 years in less than a few months. Uncontrolled methods, and it happened constantly, will produce detrimental effects.

Read through this article first and see if you can see the nuances of the the anti-LOX potency that is controlled vs uncontrolled.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jmedchem.9b00335

If you don't think it doesn't effect human in the long run, just read this article for the time being to understand the long term side effects for human. By the way, long term can be as short as a 3 months period.

Lysyl oxidase inhibitors attenuate cyclosporin A-induced nephropathy in mouse - Scientific Reports

Calcineurin inhibitors, such as Cyclosporin (CsA), are the mainstay of anti-rejection therapy in solid organ transplants but can paradoxically induce progressive nephropathy characterised by renal dysfunction and interstitial fibrosis. Lysyl oxidases (LOXs), a group of enzymes that catalyse...

www.nature.com

There are much much more. Dig deeper brother. I'm proud of you to go this deep with the pre-surface research. Dig much deeper and wider.

 

[DLD]

So vape is as bad as smoking?

 

[oldandlively]

So vape is as bad as smoking?

It's as bad, if not as worst, as smoking. Vaping, in terms of just adding flavonoids and essences, is not as bad. However, the mixtures have gotten very bad nowadays. The smoke is no longer light but thickened for the effects of heavy smoking. That itself does a number on the lungs due to the sticky resin generated for the thicker smoke-like effects. The flavor blending now contain not only what's in the old cigarettes, the compounds being used to create the high, such as tainted CBD and THC, added with the chemicals known to cause high rate of cancers and cellular irregularities, are now loaded in the "Get your ultimate high" cartridges. One of the patients that was with me in the hospital when I was prepped for surgery was suffering from vape meltdown and convulsed like a demon possessed in the adjacent emergency room.

 

[Growing4Squirting]

It's as bad, if not as worst, as smoking. Vaping, in terms of just adding flavonoids and essences, is not as bad. However, the mixtures have gotten very bad nowadays. The smoke is no longer light but thickened for the effects of heavy smoking. That itself does a number on the lungs due to the sticky resin generated for the thicker smoke-like effects. The flavor blending now contain not only what's in the old cigarettes, the compounds being used to create the high, such as tainted CBD and THC, added with the chemicals known to cause high rate of cancers and cellular irregularities, are now loaded in the "Get your ultimate high" cartridges. One of the patients that was with me in the hospital when I was prepped for surgery was suffering from vape meltdown and convulsed like a demon possessed in the adjacent emergency room.

Crazy, the main reason i use the vape is because its not as "dirty" as cig.
The liquid can sometimes be inhaled and that's also a dangerous thing.
I used this temporary until im strong enough to carry on with life.

 

[DLD]

Crazy, the main reason i use the vape is because its not as "dirty" as cig.
The liquid can sometimes be inhaled and that's also a dangerous thing.
I used this temporary until im strong enough to carry on with life.

I guess i have to quit. It's my last hang up. I've quit everything but smoking remains my last vice. Going to need a lot of prayer to quit.

 

[oldandlively]

You guys can research on the vape contents from the cartridges. There are safe versions out there, and there are enhanced versions containing large volume of glycol, glycerin, and various additional thickeners and additives for the flavors and highs will be your factor of either "kill you faster", "kill you instantly", or "you can go a bit longer". The one that had the cardiac episode was probably using a tainted cartridge with very high specific components. She was doing fancy smokery in the front of the building before she came in to sit down with her friends. I could smell that strawberry and unicorn craps that everyone enjoyed, and the hint of concentrated HTC was in the scent. If I hang around her, I would have a scent of strawberry and male odor to bring into the ER surgical floor. She ended up in the surgical floor before I was and she wasn't even a "patient" on the planned list. She became a patient by induction.

 

[DLD]

What particularly are the brans that are safest?

 

[oldandlively]

What particularly are the brans that are safest?

There is no particular branding. This is where you have to dig up the formulation for each maker. The same maker can make dozens of cartridges, and each cartridge is loaded from the light materials to the death-await-you materials. You have to look into each version of the maker's cartridge for their components. If they can't offer you the list of materials and concentration, you know you're getting tainted cartridges from who-knows-where.

 

[Growing4Squirting]

im praying for you brother

I guess i have to quit. It's my last hang up. I've quit everything but smoking remains my last vice. Going to need a lot of prayer to quit.

 

[Growing4Squirting]

You guys can research on the vape contents from the cartridges. There are safe versions out there, and there are enhanced versions containing large volume of glycol, glycerin, and various additional thickeners and additives for the flavors and highs will be your factor of either "kill you faster", "kill you instantly", or "you can go a bit longer". The one that had the cardiac episode was probably using a tainted cartridge with very high specific components. She was doing fancy smokery in the front of the building before she came in to sit down with her friends. I could smell that strawberry and unicorn craps that everyone enjoyed, and the hint of concentrated HTC was in the scent. If I hang around her, I would have a scent of strawberry and male odor to bring into the ER surgical floor. She ended up in the surgical floor before I was and she wasn't even a "patient" on the planned list. She became a patient by induction.

what i inhale contains 6mg / ml of nicotine,glycol< 40% and glycerin <60%.
not an experienced smoker myself but these seem pretty high to me.
I remember once before i vaped briefly for few days, stopped for 15-20 days, i went for an outdoor run and only after 5km of running i tasted the vaping aroma coming out while breathing in and out.
that crap stays deep in the lungs

 

[oldandlively]

what i inhale contains 6mg / ml of nicotine,glycol< 40% and glycerin <60%.
not an experienced smoker myself but these seem pretty high to me.
I remember once before i vaped briefly for few days, stopped for 15-20 days, i went for an outdoor run and only after 5km of running i tasted the vaping aroma coming out while breathing in and out.
that crap stays deep in the lungs

That's way too high. Glycerin should be less than 30% and glycol at 5%, and 65% natural fluids that generate less vapors, but delivers what you need for a quick fix. Those who are veteran vapers probably scoff and snicker at this very moment.

 

[Growing4Squirting]

That's way too high. Glycerin should be less than 30% and glycol at 5%, and 65% natural fluids that generate less vapors, but delivers what you need for a quick fix. Those who are veteran vapers probably scoff and snicker at this very moment.

I will either cut completely or switch to a lower concentration then, that should do it

 

[pardochan]

I remember this one, and it got dropped off pretty quickly. If you continued to research on it, you discovered that it was discovered through cancer patients. My brother was one of them. The collagen synthesis reduced, and he aged, like many others, 10 years in less than a few months. Uncontrolled methods, and it happened constantly, will produce detrimental effects.

Read through this article first and see if you can see the nuances of the the anti-LOX potency that is controlled vs uncontrolled.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jmedchem.9b00335

If you don't think it doesn't effect human in the long run, just read this article for the time being to understand the long term side effects for human. By the way, long term can be as short as a 3 months period.

Lysyl oxidase inhibitors attenuate cyclosporin A-induced nephropathy in mouse - Scientific Reports

Calcineurin inhibitors, such as Cyclosporin (CsA), are the mainstay of anti-rejection therapy in solid organ transplants but can paradoxically induce progressive nephropathy characterised by renal dysfunction and interstitial fibrosis. Lysyl oxidases (LOXs), a group of enzymes that catalyse...

www.nature.com

There are much much more. Dig deeper brother. I'm proud of you to go this deep with the pre-surface research. Dig much deeper and wider.

So this is the potency that a lox inhibitor must have to increase gains that much?Holy fuck.
I appreciate your words and all the information you put in my thread, I will probably revisit it from time to time, now everything is clearer for me,now i can make a better decision about my Future in PE,I always research in more depth as far as what is useful to me

This is actually a common gain without having to go into the collagen degradation route. You will actually gain by promoting healthy collagen growth over degrading the collagen growth. Simple Type 1 and Type 2 collagen deformation through traction load manipulation, with lateral force contortion, is more than enough.

From what I researched on other forums, some people can only gain anything from ligament using a much higher weight than I used, not to mention that I was no longer a newbie

To get erections, or sudden woods, that comes from having good testosterone concentration in your blood stream. Two of the brothers here that talked to me during the PE went into a secondary puberty stage for their penile growth. Their penile erections become so hard throughout the night and even during the day that they have to milk themselves constantly to reduce the amount of erectile tension. It's about playing smart with PE routines to invoke the body to promote new growths that induce the erectile quality you're looking for.

Can you share what they used to enter this stage of second puberty? What would it do for me considering that I might suffer from some venous leakage?

 

[kriskros]

Dude listen to me, smoking will not help you on this. Smoking will worsen or kill some of your efforts. That's because the anti-lox enzyme inhibition you are looking for in all these research areas are from scientific drugs, and it is just the enzyme. Ciggarettes, smoking, or whatever you think will help, don't have the anti-lox enzyme the way the research papers mean and have many other bad things.
Since you like reading scientific papers, read this one: The influence of smoking exposure and cessation on penile hemodynamics and corporal tissue in a rat model - PMC
No matter how you see it, smoking won't bring you the results you are thinking theoretically.
I am a smoker too, I love smoking, but that's the truth.
Also collagen is needed to build the building blocks in a way that it "feeds them" after microtrauma. What the research paper is talking about is nulling the anti-lox completely which cant happen with cigarettes.
Smoking kills erections. Smoking kills blood flow. Smoking won't allow you to have proper erection or maintain it.

 

[pardochan]

Dude listen to me, smoking will not help you on this. Smoking will worsen or kill some of your efforts. That's because the anti-lox enzyme inhibition you are looking for in all these research areas are from scientific drugs, and it is just the enzyme. Ciggarettes, smoking, or whatever you think will help, don't have the anti-lox enzyme the way the research papers mean and have many other bad things.
Since you like reading scientific papers, read this one: The influence of smoking exposure and cessation on penile hemodynamics and corporal tissue in a rat model - PMC
No matter how you see it, smoking won't bring you the results you are thinking theoretically.
I am a smoker too, I love smoking, but that's the truth.
Also collagen is needed to build the building blocks in a way that it "feeds them" after microtrauma. What the research paper is talking about is nulling the anti-lox completely which cant happen with cigarettes.
Smoking kills erections. Smoking kills blood flow. Smoking won't allow you to have proper erection or maintain it.

I Will smoke my last pack today,buy pentox and tadalafil and going to a caloric surplus since my starvation probably is killing my hormones,Maybe venous leak is an exaggeration on my part since I have several reasons for not being able to get hard easily, when I was taking tadalafil (5mg) I could stay rock hard for as long as I wanted

 

[oldandlively]

Dude listen to me, smoking will not help you on this. Smoking will worsen or kill some of your efforts. That's because the anti-lox enzyme inhibition you are looking for in all these research areas are from scientific drugs, and it is just the enzyme. Ciggarettes, smoking, or whatever you think will help, don't have the anti-lox enzyme the way the research papers mean and have many other bad things.
Since you like reading scientific papers, read this one: The influence of smoking exposure and cessation on penile hemodynamics and corporal tissue in a rat model - PMC
No matter how you see it, smoking won't bring you the results you are thinking theoretically.
I am a smoker too, I love smoking, but that's the truth.
Also collagen is needed to build the building blocks in a way that it "feeds them" after microtrauma. What the research paper is talking about is nulling the anti-lox completely which cant happen with cigarettes.
Smoking kills erections. Smoking kills blood flow. Smoking won't allow you to have proper erection or maintain it.

You sure you don't want to be a PE Researcher to help out @DLD on this one? You're practically DLD's science guy now. Very proud of you brother. You're reinforcing all your gains and findings with the modern day publications. I'm more surprised that you actually understood the tiny nuances spelled out in the article. That must be hard reading it in English.

 

[oldandlively]

Can you share what they used to enter this stage of second puberty? What would it do for me considering that I might suffer from some venous leakage?

Definitely. This is public information to share with the brothers. Both are in their mid 20s and mid 30s. They followed the same SRT protocols at the first 4 months, with both manual expressive stretches, warmups, and pumping. In this brotherhood, we help each other by evaluating their logs. Both brothers have private logs, and we scanned over the logs, their routines, and assisted them with modified routines as they grow. Our brother @huge-girth speciality is in his personal coaching service, while DLD and I are focused on detecting changes in the patterns to offer insights to the routines. Brothers here with their experiences also share their wisdom as well. As we have discussed, each and everyone of us is different in some ways, and we must tailor the routines and exercises according to the needs of each individual.

The brothers that actually went into the secondary puberty phases, not in growth as a whole but in penile/sexual organ growth, were due to constant stress loading on the penis correctly. They didn't rush, but they worked patiently to increase the stress load according to the growth phases. When the penis is tired, they backed off. When we detected growth, we increase the stress load according to the penis's capacity to growth and not more. It's a dancing game.

They also eat healthy and exercise. This is essential. If you cannot maintain a healthy lifestyle, PE is merely an exercise that don't bare any fruit or result.

As for cutting off smoking completely, if you can, that's best for you. If you go cold turkey and stop completely, your body will create a moodswing and craving that causes your hormones to go out of balance all over the place. It's best to find a middle ground to ease out the needs for smoking. Since I'm not a smoker, our brother @kriskros may be the better brother to help you with this. You're blessed to have many brothers here who are willing to offer excellent advices.

 

[kriskros]

You sure you don't want to be a PE Researcher to help out @DLD on this one? You're practically DLD's science guy now. Very proud of you brother. You're reinforcing all your gains and findings with the modern day publications. I'm more surprised that you actually understood the tiny nuances spelled out in the article. That must be hard reading it in English.

Accepting credit from you is a great honor my brother @oldandlively and the one who put me to thoughts via discussions. Truth is that all research I do is because of my strange response to PE workouts. For some reason, what works for everyone it just don't work for me. I have tried (and still trying) to find methods for my PE to increase my gains. So far, only a few things seem to respond to my body and work for me. I can share but always with caution for others.
P.S - Just imagine how hard is for me to read scientific papers.

 

[oldandlively]

There are so many unique cases like yours, PE is practically a new field of science. Keep sharing the info. You will help brothers with similar conditions to experiment with. But they must be willing to go beyond the normal means. They have to find their needs, and search for what works. There is no such thing as a miracle pill, shot, routine, or exercise because of so many different real life factors. Not yet anyway. There may be a few miracles soon.

 

[kriskros]

There are so many unique cases like yours, PE is practically a new field of science. Keep sharing the info. You will help brothers with similar conditions to experiment with. But they must be willing to go beyond the normal means. They have to find their needs, and search for what works. There is no such thing as a miracle pill, shot, routine, or exercise because of so many different real life factors. Not yet anyway. There may be a few miracles soon.

I do not know If I must explain to people why I came to these conclusions, but just in case I will explain why I did what I did.

I remember myself thinking "5x5x3 is 15 mins pumps, 15 mins ssj, So 30 mins a day, finished okay nice". Without me knowing it, I was always in a rush, my expectations were high, and I wanted what everyone wanted. A big penis. Now, The gains never came, my frustration was as high as my depression, I felt doomed. Why me? Why was I born bipolar? Why do I have to take medications that kill my erections? Why me Why you, Why.. And Why.
Then I tried the dangerous zone again. Clamping to the death, doing things outside PE for PE enlargement. Took every pill there is out there (no I am not kidding), Did PRP, PRP + Exosomes (which is great for discoloration I found later), and imagine? No gains. I was really doomed.

PE for girth (the one I want) requires a good erection. One, I have never had for more than 15 years. When I understood this, then, it didn't matter anymore. I really didn't care. I said okay, that's just me. I have to live with it.

Then my mindset changed:: I was no longer in a rush to do PE, and I stopped carrying if I got gains. I just wanted to fix my erection to just have good sex.

So, I started "taking my time". Do the MOSRED 10 mins, do 8 mins bundled literal stretches, doing 5x5x3 focusing on quality and not on how much time I spent, I finished with 10 mins of MOSRED again, and my first session took 2 hours. I started doing this 3 times a week.

Little by little, my penis erection started to kick off, and I was happy but my resilience to pain and gains didnt allow me to have gains. So I decided to do my research.

After taking every supplement you can imagine out there, I concluded to a stack that does what I thought I needed for my body.
1 hour prior to workout, I was taking:
5gr L-Cittruline
1.5gr Nitrosigine
Good supplements, not many results, said I will add more so I added:
100mg Pycnogenol
266mg Gotu Kola

Adding just pycnogenol, DIDNT do the trick, but the combination of pycnogenol + gotu kola, lowered my edema while doing PE without affecting microtraumas or messing with the inflammation needed for growth. It worked, but I didn't get the pump nor the expansion. My non-edema expansion was like 0.30' at its best.

I did my research, came back with 2 new supplements
Epicatechin 300mg, 98% cocoa beans and
Core Nutritionals Peak (VasoDriveAP, PeakATP, CitraPeak)

Now listen to this weird thing:: The non-hard fully blood engorged erect penis I had, got hard with VasoDriveAP even though there wasn't much blood in there.
Epicatechin, inhibits myostatin but we all know myostatin is to muscle and skeletal body but not in penis but, how real is it? Analyzing the results found on research papers it is true, our penile body has the muscles that we can inhibit myostatin to increase follistatin.

This is the reason, I got 0.65' expansion only with SSJ with zero edema. For my self, I found the golden stack. I have expansion with SSJ as I would have with pumping. No shit.

So the solution for me is: Supplements (1 hour prior) → healing (MOSRED) → 5x5x3 (taking my time, relaxing) → healing (MOSRED) → Type I, III Collagen (BUBS Collagen) and good sleep.
For me, Epicatechin, is the real deal. I am taking this supplement: EPICATECHIN (I am not affiliated with the company) and when I am NOT taking it (for experimental purposes), I don't have the expansion I want.

Gotu Kola + Pycnogenol + VasodriveAP do the edema trick.

 

[pardochan]

Epicatechin, inhibits myostatin but we all know myostatin is to muscle and skeletal body but not in penis but, how real is it? Analyzing the results found on research papers it is true, our penile body has myostatin.

Have you tried cocoa powder? It has made my pumping sessions more productive.

 

[pardochan]

Have you tried cocoa powder? It has made my pumping sessions more productive.

I wasn't even using cocoa powder for PE, but rather to make more gains in the gym, I managed to gain 8lb in a month

 

[DLD]

What i will do is looking at ingredients using your list of harmful and match those to find the best. I really want to quit so I hope this a step away from cigarettes. Thank you to all helping with this issue may God deliver me from this and eventually quit.

 

[kriskros]

Okay inducing myostatin is the real deal. It wasnt in my head.

US8426374B1 - Method for modifying myostatin expression - Google Patents

A method comprising inhibiting myostatin expression or activity to increase muscle mass. Still further, methods for locally inhibiting myostatin expression or activity to reduce fibrosis are provided. The method comprises introducing a nucleotide sequence into a vector wherein the nucleotide...

patents.google.com

 

[DLD]

Okay inducing myostatin is the real deal. It wasnt in my head.

US8426374B1 - Method for modifying myostatin expression - Google Patents

A method comprising inhibiting myostatin expression or activity to increase muscle mass. Still further, methods for locally inhibiting myostatin expression or activity to reduce fibrosis are provided. The method comprises introducing a nucleotide sequence into a vector wherein the nucleotide...

patents.google.com

@oldandlively what do you think?

 

[oldandlively]

@oldandlively what do you think?

You're trying to open a can of worms boss. This is merely a new twist on very old research going back as far as 1999. The publication in 2008 give a more enhanced compilation of effetiveness and approaches.

Myostatin Directly Regulates Skeletal Muscle Fibrosis - PMC

Skeletal muscle fibrosis is a major pathological hallmark of chronic myopathies in which myofibers are replaced by progressive deposition of collagen and other extracellular matrix proteins produced by muscle fibroblasts. Recent studies have shown ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

However, fibrosis is a "buzz word" for many different areas. The latest studies with clinical trials is here, but it's more on the endocrine studies over the penile studies, or even smooth muscle tissues:

Myostatin promotes a fibrotic phenotypic switch in multipotent C3H 10T1/2 cells without affecting their differentiation into myofibroblasts

Tissue fibrosis, the excessive deposition of collagen/extracellular matrix combined with the reduction of the cell compartment, defines fibroproliferative diseases, a major cause of death and a public health burden. Key cellular processes in fibrosis include the generation of myofibroblasts from...

joe.bioscientifica.com

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/hepr.13667

Myostatin Overexpression and Smad Pathway in Detrusor Derived from Pediatric Patients with End-Stage Lower Urinary Tract Dysfunction

Cell therapies and tissue engineering approaches using smooth muscle cells (SMCs) may provide treatment alternatives for end-stage lower urinary tract dysfunction (ESLUTD). Myostatin, a negative regulator of muscle mass, is a promising target to improve muscle function through tissue...

www.mdpi.com

If you're talking testing on productive organ testing, yes, they've done it on pigs and rats, but not human. Human patients were and still are a bit terrified.

Silencing myostatin increases area fraction of smooth muscle in the corpus cavernosum of pigs - PubMed

Myostatin (MSTN), an inhibitor of skeletal muscle growth, is also expressed in penile smooth muscle; however, it is unclear whether MSTN plays an inhibitory role in penile smooth muscle growth. We investigated the role of MSTN in the smooth muscle of the penile corpus cavernosum of pigs using...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Myostatin, a profibrotic factor and the main inhibitor of striated muscle mass, is present in the penile and vascular smooth muscle - PubMed

Myostatin is present in striated myofibers but, except for myometrial cells, has not been reported within smooth muscle cells (SMC). We investigated in the rat whether myostatin is present in SMC within the penis and the vascular wall and, if so, whether it is transcriptionally expressed and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/293335971_MYOSTATIN_A_KEY_INHIBITOR_OF_SKELETAL_MUSCLE_MASS_AND_PROFIBROTIC_FACTOR_IS_EXPRESSED_IN_THE_PENILE_CORPORAL_AND_ARTERIAL_SMOOTH_MUSCLE_AND_MAY_AFFECT_PENILE_GROWTH_AND_SMOOTH_MUSCLE_CONTENT

Why are they terrified to go with this method? Desperate measures required for ED, but they have to take a massive sanity pill since myostatin can worsen the situation further as it inhibit cellular regeneration:

Myostatin Inhibits Vascular Smooth Muscle Cell Proliferation and Local 14q32 microRNA Expression, But Not Systemic Inflammation or Restenosis - PMC

Myostatin is a negative regulator of muscle cell growth and proliferation. Furthermore, myostatin directly affects the expression of 14q32 microRNAs by binding the 14q32 locus. Direct inhibition of 14q32 microRNA miR-495-3p decreased ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The current studies are still inconclusive. This is 2020 to 2023 studies. Those who took a plunge into this arena already reported penile recovery failures. What does that mean? Permanent broken penises. The body created anti-myostatin that initiated anti-inflammatory responses, causing the hormone levels to go out of control. Imagien putting out one fire and ends up with 5 raging infernoes.

Take this method with a massive dose of sanity and a jar of salt if you decide to take it on.

 

[DLD]

You're trying to open a can of worms boss. This is merely a new twist on very old research going back as far as 1999. The publication in 2008 give a more enhanced compilation of effetiveness and approaches.

Myostatin Directly Regulates Skeletal Muscle Fibrosis - PMC

Skeletal muscle fibrosis is a major pathological hallmark of chronic myopathies in which myofibers are replaced by progressive deposition of collagen and other extracellular matrix proteins produced by muscle fibroblasts. Recent studies have shown ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

However, fibrosis is a "buzz word" for many different areas. The latest studies with clinical trials is here, but it's more on the endocrine studies over the penile studies, or even smooth muscle tissues:

Myostatin promotes a fibrotic phenotypic switch in multipotent C3H 10T1/2 cells without affecting their differentiation into myofibroblasts

Tissue fibrosis, the excessive deposition of collagen/extracellular matrix combined with the reduction of the cell compartment, defines fibroproliferative diseases, a major cause of death and a public health burden. Key cellular processes in fibrosis include the generation of myofibroblasts from...

joe.bioscientifica.com

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/hepr.13667

Myostatin Overexpression and Smad Pathway in Detrusor Derived from Pediatric Patients with End-Stage Lower Urinary Tract Dysfunction

Cell therapies and tissue engineering approaches using smooth muscle cells (SMCs) may provide treatment alternatives for end-stage lower urinary tract dysfunction (ESLUTD). Myostatin, a negative regulator of muscle mass, is a promising target to improve muscle function through tissue...

www.mdpi.com

If you're talking testing on productive organ testing, yes, they've done it on pigs and rats, but not human. Human patients were and still are a bit terrified.

Silencing myostatin increases area fraction of smooth muscle in the corpus cavernosum of pigs - PubMed

Myostatin (MSTN), an inhibitor of skeletal muscle growth, is also expressed in penile smooth muscle; however, it is unclear whether MSTN plays an inhibitory role in penile smooth muscle growth. We investigated the role of MSTN in the smooth muscle of the penile corpus cavernosum of pigs using...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Myostatin, a profibrotic factor and the main inhibitor of striated muscle mass, is present in the penile and vascular smooth muscle - PubMed

Myostatin is present in striated myofibers but, except for myometrial cells, has not been reported within smooth muscle cells (SMC). We investigated in the rat whether myostatin is present in SMC within the penis and the vascular wall and, if so, whether it is transcriptionally expressed and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/293335971_MYOSTATIN_A_KEY_INHIBITOR_OF_SKELETAL_MUSCLE_MASS_AND_PROFIBROTIC_FACTOR_IS_EXPRESSED_IN_THE_PENILE_CORPORAL_AND_ARTERIAL_SMOOTH_MUSCLE_AND_MAY_AFFECT_PENILE_GROWTH_AND_SMOOTH_MUSCLE_CONTENT

Why are they terrified to go with this method? Desperate measures required for ED, but they have to take a massive sanity pill since myostatin can worsen the situation further as it inhibit cellular regeneration:

Myostatin Inhibits Vascular Smooth Muscle Cell Proliferation and Local 14q32 microRNA Expression, But Not Systemic Inflammation or Restenosis - PMC

Myostatin is a negative regulator of muscle cell growth and proliferation. Furthermore, myostatin directly affects the expression of 14q32 microRNAs by binding the 14q32 locus. Direct inhibition of 14q32 microRNA miR-495-3p decreased ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The current studies are still inconclusive. This is 2020 to 2023 studies. Those who took a plunge into this arena already reported penile recovery failures. What does that mean? Permanent broken penises. The body created anti-myostatin that initiated anti-inflammatory responses, causing the hormone levels to go out of control. Imagien putting out one fire and ends up with 5 raging infernoes.

Take this method with a massive dose of sanity and a jar of salt if you decide to take it on.

This is getting to be so confusing. I guess the best way out is to simply quit. What is your opinion on nicotine patches?

 

[oldandlively]

This is getting to be so confusing. I guess the best way out is to simply quit. What is your opinion on nicotine patches?

I rather have you use the reduced nicotine concentration patch to satisfy the craving than to smoke. The additional unneeed contents are more detrimental to your health than the patches.

 

[DLD]

I rather have you use the reduced nicotine concentration patch to satisfy the craving than to smoke. The additional unneeed contents are more detrimental to your health than the patches.

Ok, I will ask my doctor for just that. Thank you @oldandlively

 

[kriskros]

I have read the research papers but can't find any negative on this but positives

 

[oldandlively]

I have read the research papers but can't find any negative on this but positives

If you believe wholeheartedly brother, proceed with cautions in mind. As the saying goes, "Nothing ventured, nothing gained."

 

[pardochan]

my spontaneous erections went back to what they were, I had forgotten how annoying it was to want to stretch and my dick was full of blood haha,I will try to keep this positive feedback until the intracavernous pressure and smooth muscle to collagen ratio helps me to break down collagen tissue and help me react to 9 inches bpel or bpfsl in this year

 

[kriskros]

If you believe wholeheartedly brother, proceed with cautions in mind. As the saying goes, "Nothing ventured, nothing gained."

I am doing this for a while, so far no problems and better expansion

 

[oldandlively]

I am doing this for a while, so far no problems and better expansion

Are you doing low dose injection per period of time? Just out of curiosity on what dosage per day, per week, or per month you are using myostatin?

I'll have this logged in our data collection once I have more info from your side. Make sure to also add this is method of approach for your personal log as well. It will definitely help other brothers.

 

[kriskros]

Are you doing low dose injection per period of time? Just out of curiosity on what dosage per day, per week, or per month you are using myostatin?

I'll have this logged in our data collection once I have more info from your side. Make sure to also add this is method of approach for your personal log as well. It will definitely help other brothers.

I am taking this::
300mg epicatechin, 98% cocoa beans 1 hour prior workout.
I am taking it with creatine monohydrate 5gr daily.
I am not taking injections.
With this, in a very friendly manner I am lowering myostatin by approx ~20-30%.

I am not putting injections or follistatin peptides or anything aggressive. I am counting in the physiological mechanism which gives me with no edema 0.20' more expansion.

Me - i am having 0.40' expansion in general without edema but with this is am going 0.60-0.65'

Keep in mind if one day I am about to do extreme workout I am taking 600mg epicatechin.

 

[oldandlively]

I am taking this::
300mg epicatechin, 98% cocoa beans 1 hour prior workout.
I am taking it with creatine monohydrate 5gr daily.
I am not taking injections.
With this, in a very friendly manner I am lowering myostatin by approx ~20-30%.

I see your approach. You're using epicatechin as an indirect aggressor to suppress myostatin through the oral route rather than myostatin or myostatin suppressor agents via injections. What got me interested is the 300mg rather than 2g dose. If you calculate the 300mg from pure 98% cacao bean, bitter as crap if you ask me, the total is around 5% suppression at max even with 5g of creatine monohydrate to boost the blood activities to deliver the epicatechin more effectively.

I am not putting injections or follistatin peptides or anything aggressive. I am counting in the physiological mechanism which gives me with no edema 0.20' more expansion.

Me - i am having 0.40' expansion in general without edema but with this is am going 0.60-0.65'

Keep in mind if one day I am about to do extreme workout I am taking 600mg epicatechin.

Between 300g and 600g of epicatechin, you're talking at max around 5% to 20% at max. It could be something else in your diet that you didn't take into account for the 300g of epicatechin to suppress 20% to 30% of the myostatin.

(–)-Epicatechin Supplementation Inhibits Aerobic Adaptations to Cycling Exercise in Humans - PMC

The purpose of the study was to determine if cycling exercise combined with (–)-epicatechin supplementation was more effective at increasing training adaptations than cycling combined with a placebo. Blood and muscle samples were obtained at rest ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This article is a 2018 metabolic cycling of epicatechin for human trials, with hints on the myostatin suppressor.

Effects of (−)-epicatechin on molecular modulators of skeletal muscle growth and differentiation - PMC

Sarcopenia is a notable and debilitating age-associated condition. Flavonoids are known for their healthy effects and limited toxicity. The flavanol (−)-epicatechin (Epi) enhances exercise capacity in mice and Epi-rich cocoa improves skeletal muscle ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This one is focused on the low vs high dose loading in humans, roughly around 87mg/kg. Let's say we average ourselves around 90kg (200lbs), that's around 7.8g of epicatechin for the period of daily and 3 months to have detrimental effects, with roughly 100% myostatin suppression. Breaking it down, 300g is around 4% at best, 5% to give/take of marginal error. 600mg is definitely around 10%. But if this works for you, definitely more power to you brother. Something we can really sink our teeth into or turn our heads because of the bitterness.

I drink plenty of green tea (full powder form) during work to keep myself cool/warm and hydrated all day besides coffee. Something to also think about besides dark cacao. Plenty of epicatechin-rich foods as well.

 

[DLD]

I see your approach. You're using epicatechin as an indirect aggressor to suppress myostatin through the oral route rather than myostatin or myostatin suppressor agents via injections. What got me interested is the 300mg rather than 2g dose. If you calculate the 300mg from pure 98% cacao bean, bitter as crap if you ask me, the total is around 5% suppression at max even with 5g of creatine monohydrate to boost the blood activities to deliver the epicatechin more effectively.



Between 300g and 600g of epicatechin, you're talking at max around 5% to 20% at max. It could be something else in your diet that you didn't take into account for the 300g of epicatechin to suppress 20% to 30% of the myostatin.

(–)-Epicatechin Supplementation Inhibits Aerobic Adaptations to Cycling Exercise in Humans - PMC

The purpose of the study was to determine if cycling exercise combined with (–)-epicatechin supplementation was more effective at increasing training adaptations than cycling combined with a placebo. Blood and muscle samples were obtained at rest ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This article is a 2018 metabolic cycling of epicatechin for human trials, with hints on the myostatin suppressor.

Effects of (−)-epicatechin on molecular modulators of skeletal muscle growth and differentiation - PMC

Sarcopenia is a notable and debilitating age-associated condition. Flavonoids are known for their healthy effects and limited toxicity. The flavanol (−)-epicatechin (Epi) enhances exercise capacity in mice and Epi-rich cocoa improves skeletal muscle ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This one is focused on the low vs high dose loading in humans, roughly around 87mg/kg. Let's say we average ourselves around 90kg (200lbs), that's around 7.8g of epicatechin for the period of daily and 3 months to have detrimental effects, with roughly 100% myostatin suppression. Breaking it down, 300g is around 4% at best, 5% to give/take of marginal error. 600mg is definitely around 10%. But if this works for you, definitely more power to you brother. Something we can really sink our teeth into or turn our heads because of the bitterness.

I drink plenty of green tea (full powder form) during work to keep myself cool/warm and hydrated all day besides coffee. Something to also think about besides dark cacao. Plenty of epicatechin-rich foods as well.

Man, you are a professional rapper! 000

 

[kriskros]

I would like to take ~8gr of epicatechin from coca but I don't think I can't find it.
The epicatechin i am taking from cocoa beans is 98% pure. 6mg/kg
I don't know if this dose exists somewhere