jews and circumcision

[christiantwbath]

am i the only person whe thinks the fact that jewish parents cut off their childs foreskin is discracefull. i think they should have the right to grow up and make their own choices and not be forced into it, vote yor opinions

 

[robjeremy]

I don't think anyone hast he right to decide on circumcision except the owner of the penis himself. I am so angary that I was circed. as a baby and for what?

 

[christiantwbath]

true say thats what i thaught

 

[penguinsfan]

There are people that get circumcised and feel as you do and there are people that do not get circumcised and have penile problems from their foreskin. The reality is that your parents make up your mind for you and I'm sure they do so with the best intentions at heart. Foreskin restoration is tedious and never gives a person all the reported benefits of a foreskin. At the same time, circumcision is a simple procedure at birth, but a much more painful procedure at adult age that is usually not worth going through.

 

[FoM]

Honestly I think it's better for the parents to decide. You can't even decide for yourself when you're just born, and do you even think about the benefits of the other decision until later in life? To me it's like being angry at your parents for a small dick, you can't fight genetics, or in this case a religious sacrifice turned into a hygiene issue. Some people that have foreskin wished that they didn't have it, and people without foreskin wish that they had it. You can change that here, and you can help restore your foreskin here as well. You can even pay for surgery to help you remove it. If I never discovered this site I would have never thought about the benefits of being uncircumcised, because I would have not known. I was really deep in thought about this issue, because I thought about restoring my foreskin, and removing this scar-line, but then I realized a dick is a dick. The only reason I'm here is to have a bigger dick, there's no reason for me to worry about foreskin.

 

[remiii]

kike's need to get snipped too you know

 

[goinfor11x7]

Do I smell the ugly breath of anti-semitism?


?

 

[remiii]

im a jew bag torofl

 

[goinfor11x7]

It's called self-hatred!!

 

[goinfor11x7]

I do wonder how many Jewish (and Moslem?) men would opt for circumcision if the parents waited until their male sons were adults?

 

[goinfor11x7]

I just learned something I did not know--it originated with the ancient Egyptians. And the aborigines of Australia also practiced it. I wonder if it had anything to do with their hot, dry climate--before it became ritualized?

 

[MAXAMEYES]

I just learned something I did not know--it originated with the ancient Egyptians. And the aborigines of Australia also practiced it. I wonder if it had anything to do with their hot, dry climate--before it became ritualized?

If ya wanna find some really fascinating stuff do a little lookin' into ancient mystery religions, ancient Judaism and Jesus himself...some pretty neat shit.

And as far as tamzatank....willy.....trip....remiii
anti-semite needs t'go. This is not a forum for hate.

 

[FoM]

Who the fuck wants anything cutting their dick when they are old enough to make the decision? If that were the case 0 people would be circumscribed unless the individual had a huge grasp on religion, and did it for the sake of "sacrifice" (No Sarcastic tone, just making the work stand out.). I wouldn't mind either way if I were circumscribed or not. It would probably be better for me if I wasn't, because there would be more skin near my my upper shaft, which bows to the girth of my lower shaft. When I was in Australia it was very weird to circumcise your skin, and when I lived there I didn't even feel odd, I didn't feel like maybe I should have gotten circumcised, it's my parents fault, etc. I just felt well that's the way I got mine.

 

[stridge]

The issue here would be more serious if circimcision were really anything more than a cosmetic change. The use of the word 'cosmetic' will no doubt outrage all the anti-circumcision blowhards out there, but that comes with the territory. Plenty of circumcised men, myself included, are completely happy with the way things are and have no problem with it. I, for one, appreciate the hygene advantage. Also, growing up in an area where most every guy was circumcised, the intact guys would often suffer the snickering and ridicule of the girls, even up through college. To this day I meet women that claim not to like foreskins. Now, this is obviously anecdotal and in no way means this is the greater preferance of women, just my experience.

If cicrcumcision actually impaired a normal and health sex life, then I wouldn't find the religious freedom argument valid. But, in this case, we're really just talking about a piece of skin. The anti-circumcision literature balks at this concept - they bestow all kind of magical properties on the foreskin, and I think a lot of circumcised guys that are unhappy with their penises or sexual performance tend to latch onto this explantion as a way of placing blame for their issues. Again, that's just my theory, not meant to be applied to anybody personally.

Also, so far as the cultural origins of circumcision - it is related to hot, sandy climates. Apparently there is this horrible condition called balentitus (?), or something that effect, which is common in dry climates where lots of water for washing and scrubbing isn't available. Basically, stuff gets trapped in there, including grit and sand, creates small abbrasions in the thinner skin, and allows infection and swelling to fester in an area that's difficult to keep clean and dry. Removing the foreskin basically eliminated the problem. This was mentioned to me in conversation long ago by a friend that was completing a doctorate in theology, so I'm pretty sure it's accurate.

Also, a quick google search about circumcision and AIDS in South Africa will reveal that its being hailed as one of the best chances for curbing the HIV infection rates in undeveloped nations. Removing the foreskin has been show to seriously reduce the contraction rates for STDs, including viruses like HIV. So, while there's probably no serious medical benefit for people living in places like the US, in poorer nations with high disease rates, it could be of serious benefit to a lot of people.

Also, I have many, many Jewish friends, and not one has ever complained about being circumcised or believed that they were violated by their parents. To them, it's just part of being Jewish, both cultural and religious, and they don't see it as a big deal. One has mentioned to me specifically that he thinks all the wild anti-circumcision stuff on the internet is rather entertaining. I personally don't understand it. All these men on the interenet are infuriated by the idea of male circumcision, but have little to say about all the girls all over the world that are subjected female circumcision, an ivasive, painful, and debilitating practice that is forcefully performed on girls, often at puberty. Now that's a brutal practice and a human rights issue - but basically the penis obsession takes over and the guys just use the anti-circ crusade as a springboard to bitch about being circumcised themselves and all the problems they think it's caused.

Again, that's not aimed at anybody here, just the impression I've formed of the anti-circ thing, having investigated it on other occasions.

 

[MAXAMEYES]

And then there are the countless billions over the last 6,000 or so years who truly believe that the physical exists solely to support the spiritual.

At which point a circumcision is a permanent physical reminder that you are part of a particular, ancient, ongoing tradition that has certain mandates to uphold. Mandates which reach far beyond the "here and now" and the transient desires of the individual. This involves physical sacrifices in order to follow their culture's path toward spiritual enlightenment in pursuit of reattaining Unity with the Creator.

Personally, I think that a man who defines himself not only as a sexual being but also as a complete human being by the loss of a few grams of foreskin is taking a fairly narrow and ego-centric view of himself and humanity.

 

[ithiel]

aint just jews. Its an american practice.

 

[christiantwbath]

fuck that, dont you get your bell end rubbing against your jeans and causing discomfort? also how do you grip properly for stretching and hanging? what are kikes?

 

[goinfor11x7]

Pejorative for Jewish--not a nice word--like "nigger" for a Black or African American. But the "n" word can be used in a less than negative sense, especially among Blacks. This is not true for the word "kike." I've only heard it used in a nasty, negative way.

By the way, speaking of STD's, and not mentioned here regarding the personal hygiene issue, is cervical cancer among women associated with a virus more easily spread by uncircumcised men.

 

[stridge]

And then there are the countless billions over the last 6,000 or so years who truly believe that the physical exists solely to support the spiritual.

At which point a circumcision is a permanent physical reminder that you are part of a particular, ancient, ongoing tradition that has certain mandates to uphold. Mandates which reach far beyond the "here and now" and the transient desires of the individual. This involves physical sacrifices in order to follow their culture's path toward spiritual enlightenment in pursuit of reattaining Unity with the Creator.

Personally, I think that a man who defines himself not only as a sexual being but also as a complete human being by the loss of a few grams of foreskin is taking a fairly narrow and ego-centric view of himself and humanity.

That's a very interesting and eloquently phrased comment. I agree, but this topic seems to cause some people to lose all grasp of reason and perspective. The scapegoating opportunity presented by a lost foreskin is just too rich for some to resist. Meanwhile, the religous element is entirely lost on the sort of man that obsesses over this sort of thing to begin with.

 

[goinfor11x7]

BTW, for those men who insist on getting cut, (Why can't we just leave what the good Lord gave us alone? :s), go for the German cut. That's what the good doctor gave me. I have lots of foreskin left--enough to practice any kind of P.E. exercise I choose, and more. That way, you can have the best of both worlds.

 

[stridge]

Pejorative for Jewish--not a nice word--like "nigger" for a Black or African American. But the "n" word can be used in a less than negative sense, especially among Blacks. This is not true for the word "kike." I've only heard it used in a nasty, negative way.

By the way, speaking of STD's, and not mentioned here regarding the personal hygiene issue, is cervical cancer among women associated with a virus more easily spread by uncircumcised men.

Are you asking whether this is the case or referencing a study? I don't know if if circumcision helps prevent HPV (genital warts) infections, although the same anatomical factors that help with HIV would seem to be at play here as well.

Despite the benefits of the procedure that I mentioned, I wouldn't say I'm an advocate for it in any place where there wasn't a specific need (and more research needs to be conducted on the HIV thing in my opinion, although most results have been promising). It certainly isn't necessary in a place like the US, and carries some very minor risk for the child, although comparatively much less than most things that kids are subjected to. My argument is just that it should neither be banned or endorsed by the medical community - sort of a free choice for the parents. Doctors can choose not to do it if they have a problem with it, and parents can easily go elsewhere.

From what I understand, circumcision rates are dropping around the US, and the procedure is far from standard while nobody takes the anti-circumcision whackos seriously, so I suppose I'm just advocating the status quo - always an easy position to defend.

 

[goinfor11x7]

I was referencing a study. I hope that hospitals and doctors give people the choice. I think that is standard procedure now. I know some are very quick to advocate and proceed with circumcision.

 

[stridge]

I was referencing a study. I hope that hospitals and doctors give people the choice. I think that is standard procedure now. I know some are very quick to advocate and proceed with circumcision.

Very interesting. I'll google it and check it out. No doubt that search will bring up a million articles about the HPV vaccinations, which has it's own set of fiercely outraged critics . . .

 

[MAXAMEYES]

That's a very interesting and eloquently phrased comment. I agree, but this topic seems to cause some people to lose all grasp of reason and perspective. The scapegoating opportunity presented by a lost foreskin is just too rich for some to resist. Meanwhile, the religous element is entirely lost on the sort of man that obsesses over this sort of thing to begin with.

Thanks for the nod bro'.
And I agree: Reason is in very short supply these days....from just about anywhere.

 

[RonJLow]

Anybody posting medical reasons to cut infants, please explain why your credentials are superior to EVERY medical association on earth. NOT ONE recommends infant circumcision, not even Israel.

Regarding Jews, worldwide there are 50 times as many cut Muslims, and 98% of American infant circs are by non-Jews. Every baby has he same basic human right to a whole body, but making this a Jewish issue will not speed up the equal legal protection for boys.

Sunday night I was at the world Big-Screen premiere of a new pro-intact documentary called Cut - Slicing through the Myths of Circumcision. The director fielded questions after the movie and this 44 min. Q&A session is now on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDxwrBh78hE

Cut was directed by an orthodox jew, and it includes scenes of his own family coming to terms with his resolve to not cut his children.

The film will eventually be offered on [words=http://www.mattersofsize.com/mosdvd.htm]DVD[/words] through his web site.
http://CutTheFilm.com
-Ron Low
HIS body HIS decision

 

[stridge]

I understand and respect your opinions on the matter Ron.

I don't think anybody here is really advocating the procedure as necessary in any way, just suggesting that it shouldn't be outlawed. As I explained, I would feel differently if I believed that it were really anything more than a cosmetic change or that it had some more serious impact. Obviously opinions vary widely on whether this is a valid point of view, but as it stands, it's how I feel and as such, dictates that I don't feel the procedure should be banned.

To me, the issue doesn't have much to do with the Jewish angle, although I do support the religous freedom component. The original poster included the matter of being Jewish in his poll, so the topic was only discussed in response.

In terms of advocacy, the only case this would be good for would be in a place like sub-Saharan Africa, if it is true that circumcision could seriously reduce HIV infection rates. In this scenario you'd have to weigh the greater societal benefit of marginalizing the onslaught of a crippling and fatal disease against some men possibly feeling upset because they're not fully intact. To me, the trade-off is obvious if the benefits are legit. I wouldn't, however, advocate any kind of manditory circumcision policy. I would support education and funding for wider availability of the procedure by medical professionals.

 

[MAXAMEYES]

How a man chooses to define himself is his right and his decision alone. It seems to me that if you define your basic worth by a foreskin...you're basically worth a foreskin. Perhaps a greater perspective is in order.