The Religious Tennets of Vegetarianism

[Stuff_]

This is in response to Millionman's comments in this thread.

/disclaimer

*This topic is Highly Controversial, please tread lightly*​

Before I continue, I sincerely do not wish to get into any arguements with anyone and I may stop discussing this topic here rather soon, as I am a bit stressed at the moment from work and college and such, just as a forewarning. I do not wish to upset anyone nor am I telling you "you must believe this", I am merely offering this as a rebuttle for Millionman's comments, nothing more nor less, but the thread we were speaking in was inappropriate. I do hope to either engage in a friendly discussion here, or simply have it end very quickly, otherwise I do not wish to continue participating in this subject at all and will stop. I know there is much dislike, distaste, and hate directed toward this field of thought (vegetarianism as well as religion), so I do not wish to get too deeply into it, lets try to tread lightly and not offend anyone. Vicious comments directed at me will be ignored.
/end disclaimer

To have life requires one to have a soul. A soul cannot be more or less than any other, whether in human or animal, or else the possibility of life could not exist. Animals, in this spiritual sense, are the same as us. The only difference is slightly more intelligence, and very slight, especially if that intelligence is not employed in trying to understand God... then the intelligence is the same. Animals are not simply inert matter that is ours to manipulate! They are as alive as us, physically and spiritually, otherwise life is not possible to any extent!

The purpose of a cow is not to be murdered so that we can revel in their corpses, but rather to give milk and be happy. Cow protection is actually a most spiritual activity, and relishing in their cadavers is the opposite.

The garden of Eden was vegetarian. God never told Adam nor Eve to eat meat. For the question of "dominion" over animals and whether "dominion" means "slaughter", go here. Dominion means we are to protect them from being harmed, not the exact opposite! If your father gave you a little puppy to have dominion over, would he be very proud if you turned around and slaughtered him and ate him? Or would he be infuriated?

I humbly request that you visit this website JesusVeg, particularly the faq found here. All of this information is provided as reference only, I would appriciate not being attacked for providing it to be seen, and I will return the favor as well as turn the other cheek if attacked. I do not feel contempt or hatred for anyone at all, for any reason, rather I feel love and kindness and have brought out this spectrum of the field in that mood. Thank you and God Bless.

 

[Stuff_]

I realize that some of what I said may come off as too strong, biased, and opinionated. It is. Take it as opinion if you find it offensive. I simply put it that way because all evidence points to this and it does not make sense (to me) any other way. Of course others will have other opinions, and that is good. I think I should not have posted this here or started this topic, especially because I do not wish to debate it here or now, but alas, I did. I do hope we can all be friendly here though. Perhaps it would be best to just let this thread die out quickly for now...

 

[Shithead]

To have life requires one to have a soul.

how so?

A soul cannot be more or less than any other, whether in human or animal

ok...

or else the possibility of life could not exist

how does the level of a soul mean the existence of life or not.

The only difference is slightly more intelligence, and very slight, especially if that intelligence is not employed in trying to understand God... then the intelligence is the same

so your saying im as dumb as a cow because im not trying to understand your christian god.

Animals are not simply inert matter that is ours to manipulate!

yeah.

They are as alive as us, physically and spiritually, otherwise life is not possible to any extent!

yes they are as alive as us, but what the hell does that have to do with the existence of life.

The purpose of a cow is not to be murdered so that we can revel in their corpses, but rather to give milk and be happy.

whats the purpose of a human then?


now i've got 2 more questions for ya.

1. if human kills a cow its bad. if a lion kills a cow for food is that bad?

2. define "life"

 

[prince Albert]

I find this quite funny to be honest,you have someone who believes in god using basicaly one of the same arguments that an athiest uses.

Quote jesus veg.
Jesus' message is one of love and compassion, yet there is nothing loving or compassionate about factory farms and slaughterhouses, where billions of animals live miserable lives and die violent, bloody deaths. Jesus mandates kindness, mercy, compassion, and love for all God's creation. He would be appalled by the degree of suffering we inflict on animals to indulge our acquired taste for their flesh.

Isn't that one of the arguments an athiest puts forward only difference we talk about the slaughter of innocent humans.

If the common answer to the athiest question is,god gave humans free will,then the answer to Stuff's post is the same.

As an athiest my answer to Stuff's post is i eat animals because i enjoy the taste of meat and i'm higher up the food chain,and going off shithead's post if i was unlucky enough to encounter a lion i'm sure as one of gods creatures it would have no quarms about ripping me top bits and eating me.

 

[stillwantmore]

So basically youre neglecting the fact embraced by most jesus lovers/bible thumpers that jesus loved to eat fish as did most of his followers. OR, are you being a hypocrit and saying that fish dont have souls now because theyre fish?? Hmm?? I'm with the others. Just because we're human and have higher measurable intellects than the rest of the animal kingdom, that shouldnt put us in some special class where we cant eat animals. While the rest of the animal kingdom eats each other. Total b.s.

By the way, guess what I had for dinner? It was Grade A, well done....

 

[DLD]

[/QUOTE]

YUMMY

 

[KiTTie8695]

that's attractive.

 

[Shithead]

By the way, guess what I had for dinner? It was Grade A, well done....

that's pathetic mate.

 

[Shafty]

I'll admit this much: I'm a hypocrite when it comes to eating animals. I could never eat, say, rabbit meat, since I used to have them as pets, but eating a cow or pig that I never had the pleasure to get to know in life doesn't cause me any moral issues. As I've said before, things would be different if I actually had to witness the animal in question being slaughtered and chopped up into edible parts- that would surely kill my appetite.

 

[TomdW]

So basically youre neglecting the fact embraced by most jesus lovers/bible thumpers that jesus loved to eat fish as did most of his followers. OR, are you being a hypocrit and saying that fish dont have souls now because theyre fish?? Hmm?? I'm with the others. Just because we're human and have higher measurable intellects than the rest of the animal kingdom, that shouldnt put us in some special class where we cant eat animals. While the rest of the animal kingdom eats each other. Total b.s.

By the way, guess what I had for dinner? It was Grade A, well done....

Funny shit! Laughed my arse off. I'm a vegan but I am only so because I think it's better for me. + it keeps me thin. I do, however, love my steak and every once in a while I'll go mental and eat three in one day. LOVELY JUVLY!!

 

[DLD]

that's pathetic mate.

I agree! It should have been rare ?

 

[stillwantmore]

LOL, I dont like my cow to still be moo-ing when I eat it.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

All i can smell is billybee honey garlic slow cooked pork loins......Oooooh Shit!!!!

 

[wreck]

I found most people can be hypocritical when it comes to eating food particularly flesh so lets see vegan's Tomato's have flesh they eat them, the plant grows and moves therefore it's alive, does it not feel when you rip the fruit from it's vine prematurely, It reproduces unless you eat the fruit that contains the tomato plants babies (fertilized seeds) before they have a chance to grow. Don't put yourselves to high on that pedestal.

We have become to unattached from our food it does not come from the store neatly packaged in plastic someone has to do our dirty work So thank a farmer next time you see one. and yes I do hunt, kill, field dress, skin, butcher and eat what I kill.

Shafty I voted for GWB and just saw your avatar now that's hilarious

 

[Shafty]

Shafty I voted for GWB and just saw your avatar now that's hilarious

I'm glad you like it.

 

[millionman]

Stuff....in the thread you are referring to you mentioned that there was a misconception. The problem that animals do not have spirits, meaning they do not have spiritual life and can not interact with the Lord. According to the Word all of creation lifts up praise to the Lord, but we are different because we can chose to or to disregard Him completely. We have spirtual life, meaing we can have relationship with the Lord intimately as we are made in His likeness spiritually, not physically as many people understand it to be. Animals are only two part beings, soul and flesh. We are three part beings, physical, soul, and spirit. Physical is the body, soul is our desires or what some refer to as heart, and spirit is what enters into Heaven. The misconception down the line on this issue is that we were given dominion over the earth to do as we felt necessary. As a human being without sufficient protein you will die. Your organs will emaciate and your body mass will grow smaller and smaller. Being vegan is not a more healthy option than eating animals. If you want to live healthy you have to have the full spectrum of amino acids, fats, vitamins and minerals...along with plenty of water. The key to eating healthy is to eat the way the Lord intended us to. Eat fresh fruits and veggies and meats. There was no bread in the garden, or refined sugar, or huge amounts of saturated fats...just the things that God had placed on the earth for us. The Lord placing animals here for us to protect is a respectable idea, but flawed at it's nature, because the Lord did not say to not eat the animals, but to not eat from the tree of knowledge, which would have been fruit. So on a technicality you could say that we should only eat meat, but that would be distorting what the Lord intended.

 

[Shithead]

Stuff....in the thread you are referring to you mentioned that there was a misconception. The problem that animals do not have spirits, meaning they do not have spiritual life and can not interact with the Lord. According to the Word all of creation lifts up praise to the Lord, but we are different because we can chose to or to disregard Him completely. We have spirtual life, meaing we can have relationship with the Lord intimately as we are made in His likeness spiritually, not physically as many people understand it to be. Animals are only two part beings, soul and flesh. We are three part beings, physical, soul, and spirit. Physical is the body, soul is our desires or what some refer to as heart, and spirit is what enters into Heaven. The misconception down the line on this issue is that we were given dominion over the earth to do as we felt necessary. As a human being without sufficient protein you will die. Your organs will emaciate and your body mass will grow smaller and smaller. Being vegan is not a more healthy option than eating animals. If you want to live healthy you have to have the full spectrum of amino acids, fats, vitamins and minerals...along with plenty of water. The key to eating healthy is to eat the way the Lord intended us to. Eat fresh fruits and veggies and meats. There was no bread in the garden, or refined sugar, or huge amounts of saturated fats...just the things that God had placed on the earth for us. The Lord placing animals here for us to protect is a respectable idea, but flawed at it's nature, because the Lord did not say to not eat the animals, but to not eat from the tree of knowledge, which would have been fruit. So on a technicality you could say that we should only eat meat, but that would be distorting what the Lord intended.

if i didn't know you as much as i do, i would be laughing my ass off thinking that that was a joke.

 

[millionman]

Ok SH...let me know what you find so amusing about what I said....I mean if it's outside of the Truth the correct me... otherwise I'm not exactly sure what you would possibly have to laugh about...

 

[Shithead]

i don't know millionman, maybe one day you'll laugh at it too.

 

[millionman]

Maybe...or at the least you could enlighten us all as to what you found amusing about it...doesn't seem too much to ask for...

 

[Zurik]

"To have life requires one to have a soul."

You're arguement cannot be true, unless you're premises are proven to be valid and as far as I know nobody has proven the existance of a soul. Correct me if I'm wrong, but i believe that this is called a Fallacy of Composition.

 

[stillwantmore]

So bugs have souls?
Amoebas?
What about sea urchins?
Trees?

They all "have life" technically speaking.

 

[kausion_420]

Anything with a mind and has consciousness would have the life energy inside of it. Which is ones spirt or soul.

Tree's do have life but to say they had a soul would mean the tree would have a mind.

I believe insects and such have life energy inside of them. Some of you may disagree.

 

[Shithead]

i beleive everything has life to some extent, regardless of a conscience. after all a conscience is just chemical signals sent to the brain.


everyone go watch Ghost in the Shell, that will definatly get you thinking about how to define life.

 

[stillwantmore]

One quote from the Bible ends this one for me:

"Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you." Genesis 9:3

 

[Stuff_]

I swore I wouldn't post in this thread anymore at all due to the deep-seated ignorance and hate you showed at the begining of the thread, but your last post brought up a Great point.

Genesis 9:3
"Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you; even as the green herb I have given you all things.

Genesis 9:4
"But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat."

That is all, I am done. There is no need for me to post here on this anymore. Thank you for bringing up that biblical vegetarian point.

 

[stillwantmore]

Your reply actually only expounded further. Flesh, "the flesh", have been used to refer to MAN kind not animal.

 

[Stuff_]

It doesn't say Man, it says "Flesh". Both man and animals have flesh, therefore it applies to both. It is very specific in that it says all flesh, and not "the flesh of man". It says "Flesh with the life thereof", both animals and humans have flesh, both animals and humans have life. Simple as that. Both animals and humans have spirit/soul. "Spirit" is just another word for Consciousness, consciousness is an effect of the soul. Though there is no known modern "scientific" proof for the soul, the way to verify the presence of the soul is if there is consciousness (spirit).

Both animals and humans have flesh, and spirit/soul, and therefore life. This verse clearly is an instruction to be vegetarian.

(I may or may not comment here anymore.. I don't know.. that just had to be cleared up.)