www.bodybuilding. com

I don't mean to be spamming if that is what you consider this but I just wanted to share this web site. www. bodybuilding.com is the best web site I have ever looked at to find information on any possible nutrition, workout, training, exercises, etc...... Like I said I don't know if it is legal to write this on here and I am sorry if it isn't but I just thought that it could help alot of people out with questions. They have professional trainers, bodybuilders, nutritionists, etc.... on this site and they have excellent articles and info. and forums, and even have an online store. The prices for supplements on the site is pretty much wholesale and I have never found prices lower than there. They have thousands of workout routines and show how to do body specific exercises. They have stuff on the web site for every one whether you want to bodybuild or just want to get tone and gain strength. I highly recommend the site and once again I am sorry if it is against the rules to post this. If it is legal then I would recommend making a sticky that has a link to this web site. It is a high quality and professional site and is the #1 workout website online. Hope this helps alot of people.

I agree i think every workout man on here been to the site though.

For BBing, it isn't really all that great. The high-reps, pump your muscles, each bodypart only once per week, train to failure, multiple pointless exercises for the same muscle, isolation BS that's mostly preached there is pretty much worthless. It's the same load of crap you'd find in any muscle mag at Borders. It's the same crap you see the majority of gym goers doing, and it's the same load of crap that those same gym goers get minimal results with. There's some decent diet info, but nothing that can't be found at better sites. The PL/Strongman section of the board is pretty good though. I post in that section regularly.

Now, maybe you can grow some muscle on the type of "lifting" routine I just trashed, but you're going to be weak as my 80 year old grandma. You want mass? Try high sets of low reps. You generally see 3 sets of 10 as a standard set/rep scheme, but try 10 sets of 3 instead. And don't go to failure, unless it's on the last rep of the last set. Eat and grow. It's like magic.

Or try 20 rep squats with your 10 rep max. Mix it with "money lifts" like deadlifts, bench press, power clean, power snatch, military press, rows, pull-ups, dips, etc. Then if you have time and energy afterwards, you can do a few sets of curls and skullcrushers. Eat and grow. Again, magic (and no creatine involved either! See, I saved you some money). Not to mention you'll be stronger than Mr. Pink Dumbbell Kickbacks over there.

Add some sprints, HIIT or Tabata-style front squats and thrusters on "off" days. Screw running on a treadmill for an hour. You'll only waste muscle that way. High-intensity cardio is better for fat loss and is much better for your cardiovascular development.

Diet? As Dr. John Berardi said, eat like a vegetarian, only add a whole lot of meat. 1-1.5 g of protein per pound of lean body mass is a must. Tons of fruits and veggies are a must. Healthy fats are a must. Fish oil caps and Udo's Choice Oil Blend are fantastic. Starchy carbs should be eaten as infrequently as possible. A fast protein (whey isolate at least, whey hydrolysate if you can handle the terrible taste) with high-GI carbs (maltodextrin and dextrose are good) an hour after your workout, and maybe a low-carb MRP with both fast and slow acting proteins to help you get your daily protein intake.

So I just gave you the secrets to becoming bigger, stronger, leaner, and all around just more hardcore/badass than any bodybuilder at your gym (unless they know what I just told you, or are chemically enhanced).

WOW 9cyclops9 That was a hell of a post! I am on track and actually talked to a few trainers. But my memory sucks SO bad I forget what to be doing as a routine. Basically I have another 15-20lbs to lose and I'm on like a 2000 cal per day routine. And I have been doing one muscle group per work out and do it every other day. For the most part 3 sets 20-25 reps of whatever I'm doing. This is to get toned up and loose the weight first, then when it comes off I can kick it and go for the target spots to bulk up at.

What do you think? ?

ctmwm said:

WOW 9cyclops9 That was a hell of a post! I am on track and actually talked to a few trainers. But my memory sucks SO bad I forget what to be doing as a routine. Basically I have another 15-20lbs to lose and I'm on like a 2000 cal per day routine. And I have been doing one muscle group per work out and do it every other day. For the most part 3 sets 20-25 reps of whatever I'm doing. This is to get toned up and loose the weight first, then when it comes off I can kick it and go for the target spots to bulk up at.

What do you think? ?

Click to expand...

One thing to keep in mind: most personal trainers aren't the most knowledgeable in the world about training and nutrition. Some are, but even if they are, many of them tend to give out advice that your average person will stick to (not necessarily the best advice, but definitely better than nothing). It's better to do some research and see what the leading strength coaches and sports nutritionists have to say on the subject. Their advice may be harder to stick to (or you may find you love it!), but the results will convince you if you do it right.

A lot of people tend to advocate higher reps when trying to lose fat. This is fine. I personally don't do much high-rep work at any time, but this is just a personal preference and not necessarily better or worse. But by higher-rep training I mean in the 8-12 rep range. So pick a weight you can do with good form for 12-15 reps, and do 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps so you avoid failure. Again, stick with the lifts I mentioned: Squats, deadlifts, bench press, military press, rows, pull-ups, and dips. For your purposes in losing fat, these lifts have more of a metabolic effect than isolation exercises like flyes, leg extensions, curls, etc. So you're going to be burning more calories by using these lifts. Some routines you may come across may have variations of these (such as Fat to Fire which I'll recommend further down), but these are the basic lifts your program should be built around.

For cardio, do some research on HIIT and Tabata (here's a great article about Tabata: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=4757F2A3428C846A2D7D340914660D7B.hydra?id=490160 ). Or just start doing sprints. If you can't sprint off and on for 15-20 minutes, do what you can: jog/walk, run/jog, sprint/jog, etc. Do a 5 minute warmup walk or jog, then alternate 1 minute sessions of whichever two you pick. If you're used to jogging, try run/jog. The point is to increase intensity from what you're doing without going overboard and compromising your recovery. I'd recommend doing your cardio on days that you don't lift weights.

A 2000 calorie diet is probably fine, if you're making good choices. Fibrous veggies such as broccoli, turnips, lettuce, etc. and some fruits, including apples, oranges, berries, and pineapple are called "negative calorie foods." This means your body expends more energy to digest the food than the food itself provides. So the more of these you eat, the more calories you'll burn. Don't go too overboard though, because if you have too much of a calorie deficit you won't be able to recover from your workouts. Fats should make up 20-30% of your caloric intake. Stress healthy fats such as fish oil, flax oil, etc. I take a Walgreens fish oil supplement and Udo's Choice Oil Blend. This will do wonders for your health. If you're interested on the role of healthy fats in the diet, pick up "Fats That Heal, Fats That Kill" by Udo Erasmus. And get at least 1g of protein per pound of lean body mass while trying to lose fat. More is great so long as you don't exceed your daily caloric limit.

If you're wanting to torch the fat off ASAP and don't mind a pretty hardcore diet, check out the Velocity Diet:

Part I

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=354017EF0C0D0E7CF98ACEB5E9C565CD.hydra?id=546491

Part II

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=563877

This may be too intense for you (I know it is for me!). If so, T-Dawg 2.0 is another great one aimed at fat loss:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=473067


If you like what you see in those threads, check out T-Nation. Read around, there's some great info there on all aspects of lifting, from bodybuilding to powerlifting, Olympic lifting, fat loss, nutrition, etc. Start with the newbie thread and read every link in that thread that catches your interest.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=362BD11A3855360B9B4E1D3A19528AA4.hydra?id=640350

Start with the links I gave you, and the 7 Habits of Highly Effective Nutritional Programs. Fat to Fire, a training article listed in that thread, may be perfect for you at this point. Once you're down to a satisfactory weight, I'd suggest Big Boy Basics by Chad Waterbury (it isn't in the thread, but it's a great routine). Any of the beginners' programs would be great too.

Hopefully this post didn't overwhelm you. lol Good luck with your goals, ctmwm. Happy reading!

HOLY CRAP!!! Thats more advise than my Trainer gave me the whole time!!! DAM thats gonna take some reading for sure! I'm on it!! WOW!!

9 I cant thank you enough!! :rocker: You da Man!!

I never mind helping out my Penis Enlargement buddies when they ask. But don't try to read it all at once!! lol

Enjoy it, bro.

The negative calorie foods is a myth,

Quote

no it's not true

This is because some of the fibre can be metabolised by the bacterial flora of the gut into a form of carb which we can absorb, therefore has a tiny nutritional value. However this cost is roughly equal to the energy cost of digesting the fibre. Add this to the minute amount of macronutrient in the celery, etc and there is a small postive energy value

sorry to dissappoint you all!

end quote

Ice cold water can be called negative calorie so to speak because the body has to bring it to body temp,it takes about 17.5 calories per 8 ounces/0.5 litre.

9cyclops9 said:

For BBing, it isn't really all that great. The high-reps, pump your muscles, each bodypart only once per week, train to failure, multiple pointless exercises for the same muscle, isolation BS that's mostly preached there is pretty much worthless. It's the same load of crap you'd find in any muscle mag at Borders. It's the same crap you see the majority of gym goers doing, and it's the same load of crap that those same gym goers get minimal results with. There's some decent diet info, but nothing that can't be found at better sites. The PL/Strongman section of the board is pretty good though. I post in that section regularly.

Click to expand...

>I wouldnt really be handing out advice like this unless you post some pictures of yourself with half decent muscle development. Where to start on this one? The reason that "BS" is the stuff thats normally preached is becasue it is the tryed and true routine for majority of people. Not everyone responds to the same thing, but Id say that routine is probably the best one there is for everyone. Sure lifting a lot of low reps and high weights is gonna put on some mass, but that can only get you so far. Multipul pointless excersices and isolation being BS? I dont think so man. Some poeple like to have what is called muscle development that only comes from isolation and hitting muscles at different angles. Im sure the majority of people that work out would rather look more developed than just be a big slab of mass.

9cyclops9 said:

Now, maybe you can grow some muscle on the type of "lifting" routine I just trashed, but you're going to be weak as my 80 year old grandma. You want mass? Try high sets of low reps. You generally see 3 sets of 10 as a standard set/rep scheme, but try 10 sets of 3 instead. And don't go to failure, unless it's on the last rep of the last set. Eat and grow. It's like magic.

Click to expand...

>You realize your talking to normal people that just want to work out and look good don't you? The ammount of energy, mental strength, it takes in the gym and while your body is repairing for this sort of think is absurd. When you do low reps im assuming high weights for long sets, you have to be prepared to be insanely exhausted. Lifting moderate weight 10-12 reps isnt going to make you a weak 80 year old. High weights low reps will make you stronger, but once again, id like to see pictures of you with decent muscle development and a decent body fat percentage.

9cyclops9 said:

Diet? As Dr. John Berardi said, eat like a vegetarian, only add a whole lot of meat. 1-1.5 g of protein per pound of lean body mass is a must. Tons of fruits and veggies are a must. Healthy fats are a must. Fish oil caps and Udo's Choice Oil Blend are fantastic. Starchy carbs should be eaten as infrequently as possible. A fast protein (whey isolate at least, whey hydrolysate if you can handle the terrible taste) with high-GI carbs (maltodextrin and dextrose are good) an hour after your workout, and maybe a low-carb MRP with both fast and slow acting proteins to help you get your daily protein intake.

Click to expand...

>This part doesnt even make sense? You want people to lift heavy and hard, but not eat to grow? How is someone supposed to grow on low carbs? If your lifting hard, startchy carbs should be eating as FREQUENTLY as possible. The ammount of energy your body consumes building muscle is enormous. My chiropracter knew a bodybuilder that would eat pure mayo, just to get the calories out of it to grow. Most ppoeple dont need to worry about slow acting, fast acting protein. They just need to know that they need to be consuming protein throughout the day.

Im not really trying to blast you too hard, but I dont like that you come on here and give advice like its the messiah of all lifting, when its not. Most poeple arn't going to be going hardcore, and I personally believe a lot of advice you give to them is just setting people up for failure.

Oh and I just thought Id make it clear that you cant get big and lean unless you are doing steroids. If you are bulking you are going to be a bit soft, and if you are cutting you are going to lose size. Unless you have amazing genetics, and in that case you probably dont even really need advice on working out.

thefranchise said:

>I wouldnt really be handing out advice like this unless you post some pictures of yourself with half decent muscle development. Where to start on this one? The reason that "BS" is the stuff thats normally preached is becasue it is the tryed and true routine for majority of people. Not everyone responds to the same thing, but Id say that routine is probably the best one there is for everyone. Sure lifting a lot of low reps and high weights is gonna put on some mass, but that can only get you so far. Multipul pointless excersices and isolation being BS? I dont think so man. Some poeple like to have what is called muscle development that only comes from isolation and hitting muscles at different angles. Im sure the majority of people that work out would rather look more developed than just be a big slab of mass.

Click to expand...

A big slab of mass and not "developed?" Check out Dave Gulledge, a natural powerlifter (for those that don't know, PLers generally train in a low rep range on big compound movements, and don't focus on specific bodyparts. They do some isolation, but it's for the purpose of strengthening the lift, not for appearance), after he went on a cutting phase (the first one is carb depleted, the second is after a carb-up):





I'm not saying you can't get big and aesthetically pleasing on the high-rep isolation routine that most people tend to use, but it isn't the most effective way to train. And if there's any type of routine that's "tried and true" for building a better body, it's a strength training regimen with proper nutrition. Any leading authority in the iron game will tell you this. Ask Dr. Ken Liestner, Bill Starr, Chad Waterbury, Christian Thibaudeau, Dan John, or any other well-respected coach (and I don't mean that guy with dreads that coaches Ronnie Coleman..."chemically enhanced" training is a whole different ball game).

>You realize your talking to normal people that just want to work out and look good don't you? The ammount of energy, mental strength, it takes in the gym and while your body is repairing for this sort of think is absurd. When you do low reps im assuming high weights for long sets, you have to be prepared to be insanely exhausted. Lifting moderate weight 10-12 reps isnt going to make you a weak 80 year old. High weights low reps will make you stronger, but once again, id like to see pictures of you with decent muscle development and a decent body fat percentage.

Click to expand...

See above. That isn't me, but pics of me have nothing to do with what works. The training style I talked about works. Whether you happen to use it or not has nothing to do with it, and whether I look like Arnold or not has nothing to do with it. I've only been training for a short time. However, there are pics from a few months ago here on MOS in the BB forum, you can find them if you like. I can already tell you that you won't be very impressed, because I've only been lifting since April. But I've done a hell of a lot of research. And I managed to put on 20+ lbs and lose body fat in less than 4 months (the time between my pics). As of today I've gone from 179 lbs in April to 205 lbs today, and my body fat percentage has dropped. And I can show you a whole lot of people that have built large, aesthetic physiques by adhering to the principles I mentioned. Chad Waterbury is one. Christian Thibaudeau is another. Many Olympic lifters have killer physiques. Check out Pyrros Dimas and tell me if you have a better body than him.

As far as being "normal people that just want to lift weights and look good," who says that the training philosophy I'm talking about won't work for "normal people?" Is my way of training specifically for "abnormal people?" I don't know of a rule that says: "If you're normal and just want to look good, use isolation exercises. If you're abnormal and just want to look good and be strong, use low reps and compound lifts."

Now, you don't have to go heavy, high volume, and low reps all the time. Higher rep, lighter weight days should be scheduled in your routine to prevent overtraining. But compound movements are always more efficient than isolation movements. Sure, you can throw in some isolation stuff (I've been doing more of this recently), but your routine should be based around the basic compound lifts.

>This part doesnt even make sense? You want people to lift heavy and hard, but not eat to grow? How is someone supposed to grow on low carbs? If your lifting hard, startchy carbs should be eating as FREQUENTLY as possible. The ammount of energy your body consumes building muscle is enormous. My chiropracter knew a bodybuilder that would eat pure mayo, just to get the calories out of it to grow. Most ppoeple dont need to worry about slow acting, fast acting protein. They just need to know that they need to be consuming protein throughout the day.

Click to expand...

Did you not read my post? I was talking about HEALTH and growth. Eating pure mayo is terrible for your health. Large amounts of starchy carbs is terrible for your health, not to mention you'll gain fat more rapidly on a diet that's full of high-GI carbs. Sure, you'll get big, but you'll also be very unhealthy.

Maybe the slow and fast protein was a bit much, but it isn't really a whole lot to "worry about." If, like me, you get your protein powder in bulk from a custom shop like www.proteinfactory.com (which is cheaper and higher quality than most commercial products), just get a few different blends and use them at the appropriate time.

Im not really trying to blast you too hard, but I dont like that you come on here and give advice like its the messiah of all lifting, when its not. Most poeple arn't going to be going hardcore, and I personally believe a lot of advice you give to them is just setting people up for failure.

Click to expand...

Well I don't think I've ever been labelled "hardcore" before just because I use low reps and heavy weights and eat healthily. But whatever. I'd suggest that you give strength training a try, if nothing else then you'll at least have some personal experience with it. But I'd be willing to bet that you could put on some mass and that you'd enjoy your new strength gains. It will be something your body isn't used to, and so your body will grow.

Oh and I just thought Id make it clear that you cant get big and lean unless you are doing steroids. If you are bulking you are going to be a bit soft, and if you are cutting you are going to lose size. Unless you have amazing genetics, and in that case you probably dont even really need advice on working out.

Click to expand...

Oh, so what the hell are you doing in the gym? Why are we all wasting our time? This is a load of crap, one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Before you try to defend yourself, go back up there and look at Dave Gulledge. Check out Tommy Kono or other pre-steroid bodybuilders. Look at some Olympic gymnasts. I was a competitive gymnast for several years and competed at the national level (won 1 national championship), and I can tell you that steroid use is virtually non-existant in the gymnastics community, yet you see these guys with huge, ripped physiques.

Consider this: if what you're currently doing isn't working without steroids, then why do you believe that it works? Maybe it's time to try something different.

prince Albert said:

The negative calorie foods is a myth,

Quote

no it's not true

This is because some of the fibre can be metabolised by the bacterial flora of the gut into a form of carb which we can absorb, therefore has a tiny nutritional value. However this cost is roughly equal to the energy cost of digesting the fibre. Add this to the minute amount of macronutrient in the celery, etc and there is a small postive energy value

sorry to dissappoint you all!

end quote

Ice cold water can be called negative calorie so to speak because the body has to bring it to body temp,it takes about 17.5 calories per 8 ounces/0.5 litre.

Click to expand...

Maybe I'm right and maybe you're right. I honestly haven't researched it enough to back it up. But that doesn't change the fact that we should be eating plenty of fruits and veggies.

Thanks for the water thing, I hadn't thought of that but it makes perfect sense.

WOW I didnt want to start an argument. There is more than one way to skin a cat and obviously there is a few hundred to get fit too!!! I really apprecaite all the info. Heck it will take me at least a few weeks to filter through it and take 1/4 of it in!!

I'll tell you what though I'm hooked on that dam peanut butter / chocolate Muscle Milk powder!! Dam thats good stuff! A little soy milk and ice chips and its great!! It gives you all kinds of energy and burns fat at the same time YUM

Thanks for the info 9c :D

No prob.

And by the way, Dave Gulledge's cutting diet was around 4400 kcal per day. He went through phases of dropping down to 2000-2300, but only for 2 weeks at a time. He's 265 lbs in those pics (pretty much kills the idea that you can't get big and lean without roids). Here's a quote from his about his training during this period. He had a leg injury which is why his squat seems disproportionate to his bench, but still, 315 for 30 reps in the squat isn't bad! 120lbs in each hand for the DB overhead press, and a 650lb bench!

As far as training, my training looks something like this.

Saturday: Heavy shirt day or ME day and boards
Sunday: conditioning such as sled pulls, stair runs and jump rope
Monday: pulldowns, upper back and bicep.
Tuesday: Speed bench and heavy DB inclines, flat and overhead work, and some hypertrophy work for delts and triceps.
Wed: Squat- because of my back injury I can't squat heavy right now. Just using 315 for now. I've been doing a bunch of olympic style paused squats with an explosive concentric. Then I'll end with something stupid like a set of 30 olympic squats. some calf work and abs.
Thursday Heavy chest supported rows, pullups, biceps, and rear delts.
Fri: off, or maybe some conditioning work.

During my two week diet phases, I'd be doing a lot more cardio than this. Sometimes 45 minutes a day sometimes just 30, but maybe 4-5 times a week. This would be sled pulls, stair runs, jump ropes, stairclimbers and even the elliptical machine.

my strength isn't what it once was but not way off. I did 635 the other day in my new shirt and 650 should go this weekend. I dont' feel great in my shirt so, I think I'm giving up some weight on technique right now compared to when I hit 700. I'd like to get back to 700 in my Sept meet at 275. My gym only has 120lb DB's but i'm still able to OHP those for sets of 12-13. Not sure how to report my back strength as I do lots of machines, but I think I just did sets of 5 on pullups with about 65 extra lbs. Kyle pulls 830 and we use the same weight on our machine rows, so I know my back strength isn't too bad. My leg strength is crap, but that is due to not squatting for about 3 months. When i do 315 for 30 it's an all out effort. I'd like to go heavier but don't want to compress the nerve in my back that is shut down.

Click to expand...

from www.midwestbarbell.com



Obviously, not everyone will train as hard as this guy (i certainly don't), but consider that this was how he trained while on a cutting diet!

Im sorry man but Dave Gulledge's is not natural. He's on juice, and if you fail to see or believe that then whatever. Go post about him on getbig as being a natural and see what kind of a response you get.

I don't care what the guys at getbig think. I'm taking him at his word because I have no reason not to. He has no reason to lie about being natural.

9cyclops9 said:

I don't care what the guys at getbig think. I'm taking him at his word because I have no reason not to. He has no reason to lie about being natural.

Click to expand...

Agree with thefranchise he is not natural,he has every reason to lie,drug use is a jailable offence,also i guess he competes.

You won't see a competing pro bodybuilder admiting to drug use.

Its impossible to achieve that sort of mass and conditioning natural,try doing a google search on natural bodybuilders and i would be suprised if you can find one over 13 stone contest shape.

ian duckett champion natty bodybuilder 13 years training on stage weight 11.5 stone

prince Albert said:

Agree with thefranchise he is not natural,he has every reason to lie,drug use is a jailable offence,also i guess he competes.

You won't see a competing pro bodybuilder admiting to drug use.

Its impossible to achieve that sort of mass and conditioning natural,try doing a google search on natural bodybuilders and i would be suprised if you can find one over 13 stone contest shape.

ian duckett champion natty bodybuilder 13 years training on stage weight 11.5 stone

Click to expand...

It isn't "impossible." I went to the MA state strongman competition and there were several massive guys with fairly low BF who were natural. One guy was 280 lbs and he was very lean.

Anyway, here's Dave Gulledge before cutting, at 319 lbs.

http://www.midwestbarbell.com/~midwestmd/Strongman/bigdave.jpg

And I don't think you can lose weight on 4400 calories if you're juicing, of course I could be wrong. Still, even if he is on roids, there are plenty of other examples out there. For instance, Christian Thibaudeau:

http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/315trans1.jpg

How do you no they arn't using gear,strongmen are amongst the worst abusers of gear,you really are gullible if you think these guys are natural,ive just shown you a pic of what natural at low bodyfat looks like and you still believe you can be big and lean drug free.

.You can lose weight on roids the same way as you can natural,go below maintance level.be it 5000 4000 3000 ect.

Do yourself a favour and stop reading t-nation ect its filling your head full of crap,go out and join a proper hardcore gym and then you might open your eyes to the reality of drug use,go to a natural bb show and see how little these guys weigh.

How do I know the strongmen aren't using gear? Because I know several of the competitors personally and through other boards. Pro strongmen, such as Mariusz Pudzianowski, are obviously roided freaks. With amateur strongmen, on the other hand, steroid use isn't nearly as prevalent. Again, I have several friends that compete in strongman shows, and they do very well (several of them got 1st in their division at the MA champs) without roids.

Thanks for the clarification on the roids & cutting thing. I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to how steroids work.

Here's the thing: I don't care about competitive BBers. I really don't. They can be content to have 5% BF and starve themselves to get in competition shape. My goal is to be big, relatively lean (but not competition shape), and athletic. Most competitive BBers, natural or otherwise, are in it only for the look. They may look great on stage, but that's about where they stop. That's not what I'm about. I may never get the perfect symmetry or the striations or 5% bodyfat, but I'll be bigger for it, and stronger, and more athletic. I agree with Christian Thibaudeau:

To me, bodybuilding should be about building the ideal physique: rugged, muscular, and lean, but also strong, powerful, enduring, fast and agile. I sometimes yearn for old-time bodybuilders who were also competitive lifters: John Grimek, Steve Stanko, Tommy Kono, Franco Columbu, etc. These men looked like brick walls and were just as strong.

Today my physique ideal is found not on the IFBB stage, but rather in the world of sports with football players like David Boston, Terrell Owens, and Thomas Jones; Olympic lifters like Tavakoli Hossein, Timur Taïmazov, and Pyrros Dimas; and sprinters and Olympic gymnasts. I also see it in guys like former football player turned wrestler/actor Bill Goldberg, and fighter turned actor Michael Jaï White.

All these men have tremendously muscular physiques, and they can do plenty with them too. In a world of Honda Civics with $20,000 worth of body mods, supped-up sound systems, but the same weak 105-HP engine, these men combine the sturdiness of a Hummer with the speed of a Ferrari.

I have no interest in competing as a bodybuilder, so why waste my time trying to build perfect proportions and trying to please some judges, when I can still get big and lean, and have an aesthetically pleasing body, although not "up to" the standards of competitive bodybuilders (if you can call them "aesthetically pleasing")? Why should I stress over my serratus when in reality nobody else cares? All in all, I find your standard bodybuilder to be overly vain and narcissistic.

And I kinda doubt that a "proper hardcore gym" according to you would be what I consider hardcore. If I were to leave my current gym, I'd go to TPS in Everett, MA. They train strongmen, olympic lifters and powerlifters. You'd get big and strong there, and you could keep your diet in check and maybe add some cardio to get lean. What else could you want? Muscular, lean, strong, and athletic. THAT'S my idea of a hardcore gym. But why would I want to leave my gym? They have everything I need and are affordable, regardless of how "hardcore" it is or how anyone else there trains. I'm not there to train like the rest of the gym, I'm there to train to achieve my own goals. Those goals may be different than yours, but I do know how to achieve them.

Big: eat a lot of good foods and lift heavy weights
Strong: lift heavy weights for low reps, address weaknesses
Lean: proper nutrition and high-intensity cardio
Athletic: high-intensity cardio, GPP, olympic lifting

If you can convince me that those approaches to my goals won't work, fine. Otherwise, why bother telling me I'm wrong without anything besides "that website is filling your head full of crap" to back yourself up?

And the reason I gave this advice in this thread is that most people aren't interested in becoming competitive BBers. But being big, strong, lean and athletic? I have a feeling that lots of guys are interested in that.