What a Doctor said

youknowme123321 · Nov 10, 2014

Zambrodom3;619332 said:
And about the better erection thingy- I don't know for sure, but I remember reading RED using an aspirin to thin his blood before a clamping session.... So it must have made some difference, I don't know.

well of course anything is possible to some extent but unlikely. i think it was just his mind playing with him b/c of course he wanted it to work. if he did it regularly it probably would have proven to not provide quicker gains or better expansion. and if it were actually able to be recreated in a clinical setting with variable and what not controlled for and double blind it would likely prove to not work. just an educated guess. and somewhere among the MAAAAANNNNY studies that have been performed and client feedback to doctors on aspirin use...better erections would have been reported. there are some reports link it to ED though. buuuut very few.

youknowme123321 · Nov 10, 2014

tb007;619347 said:
I don't think it matters what kind of alcohol as long as you only drink one or two units a day. I've read that alcohol has kind of a solvent property on the blood vessels, thinning the blood and making it less sticky so cholesterol will be less likely to build up. I think wine is probably the best form because it has the optimal alcohol content (12-14%) plus the added benefit of the resveratrol and polyphenols from the grapes, which are generally thought to be very powerful antioxidants.

the doses of resveratrol that have shown to be beneficial were done in vitro and in mice. and those doses when calculated over to a full grown adult would be way more then a person could drink in a day or a week b/c the amount in wine and grapes is low. they super dose in studies. even the resveratrol supplements dont come close to the doses that were ever researched and clinically studied. alcohol has no solvent effect in the blood stream. thin blood has nothing to do with preventing cholesterol from building up. that has to do with damage and inflammation to the lining of the arteries. that is why so many people are on cholesterol lowing med but the heart attack/stroke rates are still rising. it also depends on what type of cholesterol a person has more of. there is different types of HDL and LDL. not all LDL is bad. some cholesterol sticks to damages wall. some doesn't. a person can be on blood thinners, cholesterol reducing meds, hypertension meds and have all there labs looking good including cholesteroland a normal BP and still drop dead of a heart attack. it happens all the time.

now 1 drink a night isn't going to hurt anyone. it could hurt a very unhealthy person whose CV system is inflamed and the arteriole walls are damaged. but whter they drink a glass of wine or night they are at a great risk of sudden death anyways.

youknowme123321 · Nov 10, 2014

Zambrodom3;619438 said:
It is just that when you do something rarely- it gets to keep its "specialness", but the more you do it- it no longer means the same to you. That applies to everything in life, not just drinking.

it doesn't have to lose its specialness in all cases i don't believe. and in the case of a glass of wine it doesn't have to be considered special by a person to be very enjoyable even if it is consumed nightly. it really depends on the person and what it is. a surfer could surf every day for most of their entire life and it never lose it specialness to them. first example that came to my mind

smerc · Nov 10, 2014

There are more benefits in terms of the proanthocyanidin contents. I don't drink red wine, but I do take grape and pine extracts @ 90-95%. I wouldn't use red wine as my main source though.

youknowme123321 · Nov 10, 2014

smerc;619473 said:
There are more benefits in terms of the proanthocyanidin contents. I don't drink red wine, but I do take grape and pine extracts @ 90-95%. I wouldn't use red wine as my main source though.

as far as i know those studies were done the same way. we don't get anywhere near the amount used in the in vitro and animal studies through our food or supplements. sure it isn't harmful to us but we are getting as much anti disease benefits as the studies show using there methods

smerc · Nov 10, 2014

I'm mainly taking for nitric oxide/skin/inflammation benefits. All of which are human based from what I remember. Not sure if you've misquoted the wrong person.

youknowme123321 · Nov 11, 2014

smerc;619480 said:
I'm mainly taking for nitric oxide/skin/inflammation benefits. All of which are human based from what I remember. Not sure if you've misquoted the wrong person.

no i was quoting you. when it comes to proanthocyanidin all studies are in vitro and animal. i never and haven't been able to come across any human trials. and there likely never will be any. below is one article where the last 2 paragraphs are the same point i am making about resveratrol and proanthocyanidins.

Proanthocyanidins - Powerful Flavonoid Antioxidants You Should Add to Your Diet

then there are these study abstracts i found quickly

Antixoidant activity of proanthocyandins
Anticancer activity of proanthocyanidins
Proanthocyanidins and Doxorubicin

but then i just came across this nice page which i am enjoying and shows some human studies with proanthocyanidin. some promising. some iffy. some no goes

NYU Langone Medical Center

gotta love having all the knowledge in the world at our finger tips. but the only problem is there to much interesting stuff. now i reading about proanthocyanidin instead of sleeping lol

smerc · Nov 11, 2014

Here is what I found in terms of why I am taking them.

Pycnogenol, French maritime pine bark extract, augments endothelium... - PubMed - NCBI
Pycnogenol® effects on skin elasticity and hydration coincide with ... - PubMed - NCBI
Treatment of erectile dysfunction with pycnogenol and L-arginine. - PubMed - NCBI
A Natural Approach to Erectile Dysfunction that Improves Vascular Health - Life Extension

I don't take pycnogenol as that shits expensive. I'm going using the alternative under the assumption that it's a marketing ploy.

youknowme123321;619496 said:
gotta love having all the knowledge in the world at our finger tips. but the only problem is there to much interesting stuff. now i reading about proanthocyanidin instead of sleeping lol

Peaktestosterone has a piece on it and other ED supplements.

Zambrodom3 · Nov 11, 2014

youknowme123321;619466 said:
it doesn't have to lose its specialness in all cases i don't believe. and in the case of a glass of wine it doesn't have to be considered special by a person to be very enjoyable even if it is consumed nightly. it really depends on the person and what it is. a surfer could surf every day for most of their entire life and it never lose it specialness to them. first example that came to my mind

! Good example! Yes, I agree, but if you think about it- if he surfs for 2 years every single day- and from there on decided to surf once a week- the time he surfs a week would be really special to him. Don't you think? It is like going to the gym- if you go to the gym every single day (and you still consider it special (but some people take things for granted and do not appreciate what they actually have/do if they can do it every time they want to do it)), but if you go only once weekly- wouldn't that make you go with more enthusiasm?

User182811 · Nov 11, 2014

youknowme123321;619465 said:
the doses of resveratrol that have shown to be beneficial were done in vitro and in mice. and those doses when calculated over to a full grown adult would be way more then a person could drink in a day or a week b/c the amount in wine and grapes is low. they super dose in studies. even the resveratrol supplements dont come close to the doses that were ever researched and clinically studied. alcohol has no solvent effect in the blood stream. thin blood has nothing to do with preventing cholesterol from building up. that has to do with damage and inflammation to the lining of the arteries. that is why so many people are on cholesterol lowing med but the heart attack/stroke rates are still rising. it also depends on what type of cholesterol a person has more of. there is different types of HDL and LDL. not all LDL is bad. some cholesterol sticks to damages wall. some doesn't. a person can be on blood thinners, cholesterol reducing meds, hypertension meds and have all there labs looking good including cholesteroland a normal BP and still drop dead of a heart attack. it happens all the time.

now 1 drink a night isn't going to hurt anyone. it could hurt a very unhealthy person whose CV system is inflamed and the arteriole walls are damaged. but whter they drink a glass of wine or night they are at a great risk of sudden death anyways.

A bit of a know-it-all, aren't we? I was just relaying what I have read several times over the years from various sources. I'm not saying I know for a fact alcohol and wine are good for the body in small doses, but it has been suggested enough times from enough sources that it warrants some consideration. I don't think there is any absolutely conclusive evidence either way, and that goes for all kinds of science and health-related topics. Studies are constantly yielding different results, sometimes proving a previous theory and other times contradicting them.

youknowme123321 · Nov 11, 2014

tb007;619550 said:
A bit of a know-it-all, aren't we? I was just relaying what I have read several times over the years from various sources. I'm not saying I know for a fact alcohol and wine are good for the body in small doses, but it has been suggested enough times from enough sources that it warrants some consideration. I don't think there is any absolutely conclusive evidence either way, and that goes for all kinds of science and health-related topics. Studies are constantly yielding different results, sometimes proving a previous theory and other times contradicting them.

bummer another person who thinks having a small amount of knowledge on a subject that allows for debating conversations that oppose their statements makes that person a know it all. saddens me.

you were talking about alcohol acting as a solvent on the blood vessels and thinning the blood making it less sticky so cholesterol won't stick to the blood vessels. that is what i commented on because that isn't true. i didn't say anywhere that you were saying you know for a fact alcohol and wine are good for the body in small doses. neither do i for certain. for one person it could be bad and for another not bad at all. as an example, there are studies showing regular moderate alcohol consumption reduces risk of developing type 2 diabetes. but that is not what i was commenting on in any way. that is different topic from your alcohol solvent blood thinning comment that i was commenting on. i agree with your last 2 sentences but again they had nothing to do with our conversation before about alcohol solvent blood thinning stickiness reducing properties. were those 2 sentences meant to be separate from your know it all comment and explanation to me?

User182811 · Nov 11, 2014

It wasn't just the blood thinning thing. It was also the resveratrol and polyphenol thing, plus a couple of smerc's comments as well that you kinda just shot down and basically told us we're wrong. Maybe you didn't mean for it to seem that way but that's the way it came across to me. It's really not a big deal. I was just giving you shit with the know-it-all comment.

youknowme123321 · Nov 11, 2014

tb007;619723 said:
It wasn't just the blood thinning thing. It was also the resveratrol and polyphenol thing, plus a couple of smerc's comments as well that you kinda just shot down and basically told us we're wrong. Maybe you didn't mean for it to seem that way but that's the way it came across to me. It's really not a big deal. I was just giving you shit with the know-it-all comment.

cool. well good to get to know you tb. tuberculosis?

all true stuff about resveratrol. but then zam lead me down a path of finding out some human info on what he was talking about with proanthocyanidin. being wrong about something is a good thing. it means we get to learn new stuff. i am wrong plenty. i do mean to send across correct info and if that means something someone said was wrong then i'm not going to hold back b/c of that. just as i wouldnt want anyone to.

User182811 · Nov 11, 2014

Right... but how do you know without a doubt that you're right and all the studies that we read are wrong? That type of stuff, even the experts and scientists have varying opinions. See what I'm saying?

Anyway, I'm sure you're a smart guy. I feel that I also know a thing or two about a thing or two, so let's just leave it at that. I appreciate the info you share.

And some of my friends do actually call me tuberculosis as a nickname, just for the shit of it.

youknowme123321 · Nov 11, 2014

tb007;619729 said:
Right... but how do you know without a doubt that you're right and all the studies that we read are wrong? That type of stuff, even the experts and scientists have varying opinions. See what I'm saying?

Anyway, I'm sure you're a smart guy. I feel that I also know a thing or two about a thing or two, so let's just leave it at that. I appreciate the info you share.

And some of my friends do actually call me tuberculosis as a nickname, just for the shit of it.

i dont think anyone has ever read a study that showed resveratrol in wine or grapes had any health benefits to humans. i have never come across them. just articles in magazines that were based on in vitro and animal studies. there isn't even a study that shows resveratrol supplementation to be beneficial in humans. that and the solvent alcohol stuff are the only things i debated. i would love info to the contrary.

edit: and just b/c i have info that is contradictory to another persons info does not mean i think i am 100% right or that i cant be wrong.

youknowme123321 · Nov 11, 2014

tb007;619729 said:
Right... but how do you know without a doubt that you're right and all the studies that we read are wrong?

and don't ever be afraid to present yourself as right just so someone wont be wrong or feel wrong about something. or b/c it would be embarrassing to be wrong. that is why i will say things that some people take bluntly though i am just conversing. b/c i am not afraid or embarrassed to be wrong.

and i dont mean you are specifically afraid or embarrassed to be wrong but many people hold back for those reasons or get offended when someone opposes their knowledge b.c they are afraid it makes them look stupid. i dont feel stupid when i am wrong or think someone stupid if they are wrong. we are all just learning

User182811 · Nov 11, 2014

The stickiness thing applies to the platelets, not cholesterol. I said it wrong earlier.

When the platelets get stuck together they form clots that can lead to a heart attack. Resveratrol may help prevent the platelets from sticking together and forming clots, based on studies with mice and in vitro. Also, it is thought to prevent oxidation of LDL cholesterol and numerous other benefits. I believe alcohol to have a similar effect.

I read some of this on WebMD just now and the rest from Men's Health and a few other places over the years I can't recall offhand.

Whether any of this is true or not, I'm still going to enjoy my red wine, cognac, and scotch all the same. Even the occasional champagne or beer. Or maybe Miller High Life- the champagne OF beers. Haha. Totally joking. I don't drink that shit. But good booze is so fucking delicious! The buzz ain't half bad either

youknowme123321 · Nov 11, 2014

tb007;619740 said:
The stickiness thing applies to the platelets, not cholesterol. I said it wrong earlier.

When the platelets get stuck together they form clots that can lead to a heart attack. Resveratrol may help prevent the platelets from sticking together and forming clots, based on studies with mice and in vitro. Also, it is thought to prevent oxidation of LDL cholesterol and numerous other benefits. I believe alcohol to have a similar effect.

I read some of this on WebMD just now and the rest from Men's Health and a few other places over the years I can't recall offhand.

Whether any of this is true or not, I'm still going to enjoy my red wine, cognac, and scotch all the same. Even the occasional champagne or beer. Or maybe Miller High Life- the champagne OF beers. Haha. Totally joking. I don't drink that shit. But good booze is so fucking delicious! The buzz ain't half bad either

ok that makes more sense. interesting thing is then it increases a persons risk for cerebral hemorrhage. oh the web we weave!!! platelets are apart of a clot. most heart attacks occur from a slow building clot in one place in a coronary artery then it eventually breaks off and moves down the artery till it gets stuck in a narrower portion. there was a study done during the korean war. they examined i think 30 or 300 hearts of dead soldiers with a mean age of 22 or 27. over 70% of the hearts had occlusion of mian coronary arteries. these were all seemingly 100% healthy young men. their hearts adapted by developing collateral circulation to detour blood around the blockage or area of reduced blood flow. but then if one of those major occlusions break off it's bad news saturday.

hahahahaha at first glance i thought you said, "I'm still going to enjoy my red wine, cognac, and scotch all the same TIME." i was like wtf???? gross. he is really trying to reduce those platelets lol

miller high life = eternal life. that is proven fact. now if it just wasn't horrible. i guess we choose death instead of miller high life...Cheers!

DLD · Nov 13, 2014

youknowme123321;619751 said:
miller high life = eternal life. that is proven fact. now if it just wasn't horrible. i guess we choose death instead of miller high life...Cheers!

I can not stand the way Miller tastes, I am not a big beer drinker, maybe had a 1 beer in the past 3 years but I do remember Miller tasting like my piss smelled

I am kind of a lightweight even with wine, I only drink Red Wine but I hate the way most red wine tastes so I stick with Sangria, tastes like Kool aid

User182811 · Nov 13, 2014

doublelongdaddy;619962 said:
I can not stand the way Miller tastes, I am not a big beer drinker, maybe had a 1 beer in the past 3 years but I do remember Miller tasting like my piss smelled I am kind of a lightweight even with wine, I only drink Red Wine but I hate the way most red wine tastes so I stick with Sangria, tastes like Kool aid

I'm telling you, man. Try a cabernet sauvignon from napa valley. Francis Coppola makes one for about $20 that's a good everyday wine. Or a good pinot noir or bordeaux... absolutely delicious. Some of my favorites are opus one, silver oak, and stag's leap but they're definitely expensive.

What a Doctor said

1

1

1

0

1

0

1

0

0

1

1

1

1

1

1

1

1

1

doublelongdaddy

1

Similar threads