IPP 40%
IPM 20%
OA 10%
PG 10%
OS 5%
D-lim 5%
DMSO 10%

In how big of a batch do you make this?
 
Originally posted by quijjiboo
final update: 1 week after stopping the applications im at 6.75 BP X5 (mid)
I was pretty much only working length during the time, and it shows. it wasnt a true .75 gain im guessing .25 of that was measuring error, but ill definitely be starting a new cycle in a months time. if i see another .5 after the next cycle, then ill be convinced its from the transdermal

How much did you ejaculate in this time? Just curious if this would actually effect any gains?

-ItsElectric
 
Originally posted by Supra
Hey ItsElectric, any changes?

Actually I measured last night and I may be up to 7.8" :D I'll measure again later just to make sure though.

-ItsElectric
 
Havent been online for a while...

Gardenier90 -> Doesn't really matter how big of a batch, I guess a litre or so would be reasonable

ItsElectric -> How many times? Alot, who knows hehehe. Makes absolutely no difference IMO
 
Why didn't you use a DHT precursor such as 3alpha or 5aa?

Were you afraid of possibly effecting your prostrate (a very valid concern IMO, considering that much of the tissue in the penis leads directly to it...)

Still...I've been thinking of playing around with the one gel designed for local pentration to specific tissue (gel#3 or whatever they are calling it now) and mixing in a combo of 3alpha and 5aa, I think these would potentially be much more effective.
 
Originally posted by WideAwake
Why didn't you use a DHT precursor such as 3alpha or 5aa?

Were you afraid of possibly effecting your prostrate (a very valid concern IMO, considering that much of the tissue in the penis leads directly to it...)
a) safety, there were several studies done with this kind of treatment and there weren't any reported side effects
b) some people noticed results using testosterone, I havent heard of anybody using 3-alpha or 5aa
 
I started my second month long cycle today. This one will be a bit lower dose, only applying 2/day.

Right now I stand at 7 BP X 5(mid). I hope to get to 17 X 11 by the end of the month.
 
I'm thinking of buying the 4derm product, but I am concerned about the possible risks involved. I'm currently taking beta blockers to keep a regular heart rhytHydromax. Is there risk of hairloss, increase in estrogen (resulting in bitch tits), or enlarged prostrate?
 
mike2003 said:
I'm thinking of buying the 4derm product, but I am concerned about the possible risks involved. I'm currently taking beta blockers to keep a regular heart rhytHydromax. Is there risk of hairloss, increase in estrogen (resulting in bitch tits), or enlarged prostrate?

I have to say yes, it is possible for those sides to happen. But I think the chances are very slim.

See 4AD does not aromatize (convert to estrogen), but around 15% of it converts to testosterone in the body, which will aromatize (some of it). So the estrogenic side effects would be equivalent to that of dose of testosterone 15% of how much 4AD you're taking.
The average dose of 4AD is around 2-400mg/day. Because of the absorption rate of a transdermal is not 100%, somewhere around 25-35%, you are absorbing (say you apply 400/day) 120mg/day. This works out to a total of an extra 126mg of testosterone per week. And this is very close to the dose doctors use for testosterone replacement therapy (which is obviously pretty safe), so thoery says you don't have to worry about estrogen.

About the hairloss and prostate, bad news is it's still possible. 4AD is androgenic by nature. However you do only have a small amount of conversion to DHT from the testosterone as I shown above.

In the real world, I have talked to many people and spent lots of time on bodybuilding msg boards (guys there sometimes take more than pros) who use 4AD and these side effects are rare.
I don't know anything about the interactions of 4AD and beta-blockers.
 
quijjiboo said:
I have to say yes, it is possible for those sides to happen. But I think the chances are very slim.

See 4AD does not aromatize (convert to estrogen), but around 15% of it converts to testosterone in the body, which will aromatize (some of it). So the estrogenic side effects would be equivalent to that of dose of testosterone 15% of how much 4AD you're taking.
The average dose of 4AD is around 2-400mg/day. Because of the absorption rate of a transdermal is not 100%, somewhere around 25-35%, you are absorbing (say you apply 400/day) 120mg/day. This works out to a total of an extra 126mg of testosterone per week. And this is very close to the dose doctors use for testosterone replacement therapy (which is obviously pretty safe), so thoery says you don't have to worry about estrogen.

Do you think you can apply 400mg/day (absorb 120mg/day) via just using the gel on your penis?

That seems a little high to me, as I would think (from experience) that you can only get about 1ml-2ml or so of gel on the penis at one time, and usually you're not going to be able to get more than 50mg/ml of 4ad in solution at any one time.

So you apply 2ml, at 50mg/ml, you have 100mg on you penis, and than use the 30% rule for absorption to get you to 30mg per app (60mg per day) on your penis.

Right?

Or are you going to be applying the 4ad to other spots as well (delts, tris, etc...)? Though then you're just basically running a transdermal ph stack.

For what it's worth...I would use the site specific gel that one of the companies came out with (used to be Avant Labs Gel#3) and some 3alpha or 5aa....
 
WideAwake said:
Do you think you can apply 400mg/day (absorb 120mg/day) via just using the gel on your penis?

That seems a little high to me, as I would think (from experience) that you can only get about 1ml-2ml or so of gel on the penis at one time, and usually you're not going to be able to get more than 50mg/ml of 4ad in solution at any one time.

So you apply 2ml, at 50mg/ml, you have 100mg on you penis, and than use the 30% rule for absorption to get you to 30mg per app (60mg per day) on your penis.

Right?

Or are you going to be applying the 4ad to other spots as well (delts, tris, etc...)? Though then you're just basically running a transdermal ph stack.

For what it's worth...I would use the site specific gel that one of the companies came out with (used to be Avant Labs Gel#3) and some 3alpha or 5aa....

Ya, you would run into problems with the concentration at those doses with just applying to the penis. He was just worried about side effects, so I just wanted to show him it's not really something to worry about even with the assumption of his dose being up to 400mg/day.

I don't know how much to dose the 4AD though, it's never been studied. I would just go with what the guys at �other forum� did I guess. They didn't have any problems with it.

The 3-alpha and 5-aa sounds like an awesome idea, but applying the T is as far as I go with Penis Enlargement hehe. At least I have some studies to ease my worries. I'm not saying 4AD is unsafe, I would probably try that if I didn't have T, as their effects and chemical makeup are very similar.

Note: I DONT recommend any of this to anyone! LMAO
 
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