To all Christians on the board

[Metal Ed]

>>>>Metal Ed, you are missing the point.





Do not blur Texan's beliefs with your own. Just because you are both "Christian" does not mean that you believe the same thing. I have seen enough debates between proponents of Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic to know that much.

Texan says God "created everything, knows everything, and allows everything to happen according to His will"

You point to the "allow" part of the above sentence. I point to the "according to his will" part. This is a contradiction. If it is "his will", then he made it happen. He did not merely "allow" it to happen.... he made it happen. That is what "according to his will" means. Remember that this being is supposedly all-powerful (Texan's word's, not mine). One cannot posit an all powerful, all knowing, creator of everything, in which all things happen "according to his will", and then also posit that we have free will. You'll sooner convince me that 2 + 2 = 5.






>>>>God ALLOWS everything to happen. He does not CAUSE it to happen.






So he's not the creator of everything, then. You must disagree with Texan on that point.





>>>>>>You cannot blame it on Him. Sin is the product of our own unwillingness to act in the way in which God would want us to act.
Its about free choice. God tells us, "You can either do it My way, the right way, or you can do it your way, the wrong way. It's your choice."






So God didn't create everything, then. He certainly doesn't create my decisions, according to what you are saying here. Or my thoughts. Or my actions. These are all things.

 

[Texan]

>>>>Metal Ed, you are missing the point.





Do not blur Texan's beliefs with your own. Just because you are both "Christian" does not mean that you believe the same thing. I have seen enough debates between proponents of Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic to know that much.

Texan says God "created everything, knows everything, and allows everything to happen according to His will"

You point to the "allow" part of the above sentence. I point to the "according to his will" part. This is a contradiction. If it is "his will", then he made it happen. He did not merely "allow" it to happen.... he made it happen. That is what "according to his will" means. Remember that this being is supposedly all-powerful (Texan's word's, not mine). One cannot posit an all powerful, all knowing, creator of everything, in which all things happen "according to his will", and then also posit that we have free will. You'll sooner convince me that 2 + 2 = 5.






>>>>God ALLOWS everything to happen. He does not CAUSE it to happen.






So he's not the creator of everything, then. You must disagree with Texan on that point.





>>>>>>You cannot blame it on Him. Sin is the product of our own unwillingness to act in the way in which God would want us to act.
Its about free choice. God tells us, "You can either do it My way, the right way, or you can do it your way, the wrong way. It's your choice."






So God didn't create everything, then. He certainly doesn't create my decisions, according to what you are saying here. Or my thoughts. Or my actions. These are all things.

Metal Ed, you are off on this one. Yes, God allows everything to happen according to His will. There is no contradiction in this statement unless you want to try to show everyone how smart you think you are by misconstruing the statement. Our free choice IS His will. Not a difficult concept for most 4-year-olds. Yes, He is saddened by the poor choices we often make, but it is still His will that we have the ability to choose. You have to try harder to read a contradiction into that sentence than you do to see the obvious simplicity of it. But then I guess that makes you "smart."

And, yes, God did create everything. God created the ability for you to freely think, reason (some of us, anyway), and make choices. Your attacks are abstract and, frankly, humorous. Don't you think it's ironic that you are trying to show everyone how smart you are by picking apart four-word phrases, yet you show us all that you have a hard time grasping the most basic of concepts. There are intelligent questions to ask about Christianity, but you are just exemplifying obtuse cynicism.

 

[9cyclops9]

You can't put God in a box. His will is not for a moment. It encompasses everything for all time. There is a REASON for him allowing things to happen. I don't know what it is, and neither do you, and neither does anyone else.

God created all physical things. Things we can see, hear, taste, etc. He did not create every thought that we have, nor did he create sin. He allowed it to come about though. For a reason. We'll find out one day what that reason was.

Different denominations may have different beliefs over certain things, but they all believe the same MAIN issue - that Christ is our savior. The other stuff is not nearly as important, and they get blown way out of proportion.

John

 

[Metal Ed]

Dang, I didn't back to this board for 5 days, and only 2 responses?


>>>>>>>Metal Ed, you are off on this one. Yes, God allows everything to happen according to His will. There is no contradiction in this statement unless you want to try to show everyone how smart you think you are by misconstruing the statement. Our free choice IS His will. Not a difficult concept for most 4-year-olds. Yes, He is saddened by the poor choices we often make, but it is still His will that we have the ability to choose. You have to try harder to read a contradiction into that sentence than you do to see the obvious simplicity of it. But then I guess that makes you "smart."
And, yes, God did create everything.



Enough psycho babble double talk. If he created everything, then he created my thoughts, actions and decisions.


>>>>>>God created the ability for you to freely think, reason (some of us, anyway), and make choices. Your attacks are abstract and, frankly, humorous. Don't you think it's ironic that you are trying to show everyone how smart you are by picking apart four-word phrases, yet you show us all that you have a hard time grasping the most basic of concepts. There are intelligent questions to ask about Christianity, but you are just exemplifying obtuse cynicism.[/QUOTE]



All I know is, I just learned that "everything" no longer includes everything.

And that God knows everthing.... which would mean that he knew what I would do when he made me. But he didn't know that, even though he knows everything.

You're right, Texan.... I must REALLY be an idiot. I have problems envisioning a God who is the creator of everything, except for the stuff that he didn't create. The bad stuff. I created that.

Of course, he must've known that I'd do that when he made me, because he knows everything. Except for what he doesn't know.

I'm an idiot all right.
.

 

[9cyclops9]

Hm...you can't grasp the concept of "God created all things" to mean "God created all things?" I don't get it. Since when is a thought a tangible thing? Or a decision? I think you're bright enough to understand that.

 

[Metal Ed]

Hm...you can't grasp the concept of "God created all things" to mean "God created all things?" I don't get it. Since when is a thought a tangible thing? Or a decision? I think you're bright enough to understand that.

So now you're adding the stipulation that everything only includes everything *tangible"?

Since when? "Everything" includes many things that are tangible, but also things that are not tangible. Events, ideas, etc.

From the dictionary:


thing:

n.
An entity, an idea, or a quality perceived, known, or thought to have its own existence.
The real or concrete substance of an entity.
An entity existing in space and time.
An inanimate object.
Something referred to by a word, a symbol, a sign, or an idea; a referent.
A creature: the poor little thing.
An individual object: There wasn't a thing in sight.
An act, deed, or work: promised to do great things.
The result of work or activity: is always building things.
A thought, a notion, or an utterance: What a rotten thing to say!
A piece of information: wouldn't tell me a thing about the project.
A means to an end: just the thing to increase sales.
An end or objective: In blackjack, the thing is to get nearest to 21 without going over.
A matter of concern: many things on my mind.
A turn of events; a circumstance: The accident was a terrible thing.



>>>>>>>>>>I think you're bright enough to understand that.[/QUOTE]




Real cute. Christ would be pleased with your sarcasm, I'm pretty sure there's this part in the New Testament where he says that "Thou shalt be sarcastic to thy neighbor".

But hey, I thought that YOU were intelligent enough to understand the English language, so right back at ya.

Nevertheless, let's play it your way. Let's accept your arbitrary stipulation and say that "everything" does indeed include only *physical* objects. Is the human brain a physical object? Are not our thoughts and actions the result of the physical properties of our brains? Wouldn't an all knowing being know how my brain would operate when he made me? Or will you add the stipulation that "all knowing" doesn't include knowing the future?

 

[ItsElectric]

Deism.

-ItsElectric

 

[9cyclops9]

Sorry about the sarcasm.

You're going way around it to make your point. You're really stretching.

Since you like definitions, the more accurate translation of "created all things" would be "fabricated originally all." And why don't we look up the definition of fabricated?

To form by art and labor; to manufacture; to produce; as, to fabricate woolens
To invent and form; to forge

Sounds very physical to me.

You are right. The brain is a physical object. And thoughts are results of the physical properties of our brains. And of course an all-knowing being such as God knows how our brains operate. But, have they yet found a way to know what you're thinking just by monitoring your electric impulses in your brain? I don't think so. So a thought is a very intangible thing. God gave us the ability to have thoughts. And he knows every thought we have. But that doesn't mean he created each thought.

God does know the future. That doesn't mean that we don't have free will, though. He leaves us free to choose, but He knows what we will do. That doesn't mean that He forces us to do it.

 

[Godsize]

In Genesis, when God created everything, he refers to himself in the plural.

What is up with that? Get out your King James versions and see for yourself.

"Let us make him in our image." What's that bullshit all about? I thought there was only one God? And don't pull no "Holy Trinity" shit on me, because that idea wasn't introduced at that point yet.

Why wouldn't God want his creation to know the difference between good and evil? Perhaps maybe the serpent was God.

The way god has it set up, we are ALL born to lose. If He knew that Adam and Eve would disobey him, why even fucking bother? God is a prankster.

I guess we'll all find out when we die, but then again, maybe not.

I don't think God exists in the sense you guys are trying to discuss Him in. WE are God. God is US. We have free will and all, but really, no one has any control over anything. You want to end the world? You can. Commit suicide.

Some people think that other beings came down and mixed their genes with ape genes and created us in their image. But that's some Freemason conspiracy theory shit. The coincidences are really wicked though if you read up on it.

 

[9cyclops9]

Just because God hadn't revealed the concept of the Trinity doesn't mean it didn't exist yet.

The other stuff...that's your deal haha. I'm not going to argue. Especially after not having slept in 2 days lol

But let me suggest a site. You seem to be interested in the 'coincidences' of how we got here. You should check out this site:

http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=seminarset_online

Watch the first video. I'll go ahead and say this: he is extremely right winged, so don't pay attention to that, just the content of the video. He demonstrates how evolution/the big bang etc are pretty bad, unstable theories. He also shows how there is plenty of evidence to support Creation about 6000ish years ago. Its very interesting.

John

 

[millionman]

As it is there are those individuals who feel it is their duty to dispell all things of God, so that they may set themselves up as the ultimate being in their own created world. Making them responsible for themselves in totality, meaning that even the people closest to them have no right to tell them what to do. Because if God doesn't exist then who do I answer to, I am old enough to make my own decisions and be who I am. The idea won't work. You can look into that person's life and there will be one thing that looms over everything else, whether it be work, relationships, alcohol, sex, etc. Now there will be debate on this. In genesis it is written that when God left Adam and eve's prescence there was a void left in their souls. We search for things to fill that void. Some people decide they are too advanced intelectually to even consider that a man died two thousand years ago for the sins they comitt today. I personally searched through the teachings of the world, and I found no comfort, because there was a severe uneasiness in my soul. I tried to make things fit in my own plan and found that I can do nothing right. God created us in his image, true, he told Adam not to eat from the tree of life, he did, his choice was made, he decided he knew better than God, The choices we make daily are our own, Through prayer and seeking of His will we are able to make the best decision, it comes down the same as analizing a situation and deciding by gathering information what would be best to do. When you ask God for His will to be done you are asking for guidance and influenece in that situation.

I know that in my walk with Christ I have not been perfect, I struggle with the same things that most men struggle with. I have been blessed with very Godly women in my life, and brothers in Christ that I can share in my struggles with. For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16. I say to anyone who has doubts about Who Christ was read the book The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. Strobel set out to write a book discrediting Christ, but in the end found himself writing a book that supports Christ for who he is, the evidence is clear Christ claimed deity, the Gospels are accurate accounts of Him, not religiously but historically, archaeology supports the places mentioned in the Gospels, and the fact that the evidence used in the book is not scriptually based but based on information the world would accept as accurate. Give the book a read through, it's a good read either way. In christ, Paul

 

[9cyclops9]

Good post, and good book from what I hear. I need to read it.

 

[millionman]

Yeah I took a trip out to dallas and had the opportunity to read it. The funny thing about the trip to dallas, I didn't want to go, I didn't have any money to go, but the tuesday before I was to leave, one of my friends and I were talking and she looks at me and says, "you need to go, I don't know where you're going but you need to go" She had no idea about me going to Dallas, I was slightly freaked. To add to that I was talking with her best friend about an hour later and she said the exact same thing, but I asked if she had talked with Shelbs and she said no in the last three or four hours. God has a really awesome way of getting your attention, and changing people's hearts. I am one of those whose heart He has changed. Living for myself and satisfying my desires was only making me happy for the moment, then that all came to an end, and when you are flat on your face it's really easy to look for where God is. I truly believe a lot of the time the people who have the most don't feel they need to look at anything past today, or this life. There's so much more to it. Scripturally, this life is a grain of sand in the hour glass of time, like all things this too shall pass. We are so short sited, for the here and now, God had a blessing for me out in Dallas and if I had not gone then I would not have the business that I have so much faith in now, because He showed me parts of His plan. My life has been turned upside down, and inside out. I love all the guys on this board, but I think it is really important that everything including Penis Enlargement is in the end insignificant to the one choice God asks us to make, to accept His son Jesus Christ as Lord and savior. God is an awesome God, and I just want to share my joy with the world, and not to force people into having my faith, but to share it with them in His love and for His glory. It's not my job to change the hearts of men, but God. Be blessed in all your days.