Plastic/Elastic Theory... and achieving some freaky gains...

A very nice theory slicedbeef. Im a newbie at Penis Enlargement and started to doubt about it, not that it doesnt work but that it doesnt work for me. I begann to think i must have a strange dick or something that it doesnt work for me.
I do jelqing and stretching since almoust 3months and i see no gains. I always do 6on1 off or 5on2 off, in the beginning it took 30min, then 1hour and since 1month i make 2hour workouts. Im also doin dld-blasters, some ullis and squeezez since 2004 and i still see no gains. I always read newbie gains here, newbie gains there and it makes me a little depressed that some make such a good gains in such a short time and im not, the only positive thing from Penis Enlargement is that i have stronger erections now.
I always do my workouts at night and will start now with stretching/jelqing every couple of hours throughout the day. I hope this will jumpstart gains for me. Thx a lot for your theory.

Yeah, I hope that will help you! I think I know you, but I don´t know why.... )) You can also use an ADS or an ADW (I mentioned it @ the german Forums)

C YA there!

Hi playa my friend Think i'll give ADW a try...:s

C YA @ the german Forums

Very interesting thread, SB. I was a newbie 4 months ago and experienced very fast gains initially. Those gains have now stopped for the last month. I think you make some great observations. I started to do lazy ass stretches and have recently gotten lazy about doing them. I'll get back to them throughout the day tom'w. Thanks.

Originally posted by TennisNut
I started to do lazy ass stretches and have recently gotten lazy about doing them.

Click to expand...

Isn't this an oxymora?:D

Recall

Instead of an ADS (I haven't built one yet), how about a cockring? Same shit, different dimension.

The only thing that puzzles me about cockrings are: How tight are they supposed to be?

I've tried different tightnesses, but it only seems to work when it's clamped tight. Anything less than that (to allow some circulation) and my dick will just go flaccid. I know it ain't good to leave my cock in a fully-clamped clamp for too long, and to get the most out of using any kind of ADS you have to do it for a decent amount of time after working out, right? Keeping my cock as expanded as possible while healing requires me to clamp it pretty tightly. I'm not sure if that amount of tension would allow any circulation, but anything less than that and my dick will pretty much deflate, thus defeating the purpose. Maybe I should just find ways to stretch and forget the tourniquets.

Wearing an ADS after a workout is a really good idea.

Would "Lazy Ass Stretches" be a good alternative to using an actual device for all day stretching? Or would the compression from sitting on it cause girth to suffer?

Godsize,
I have tried summut like this called the Ring Of Power cable clamp alternative.
What I do is use a medium suzed cable clamp and after a session clamp the thing around the whole package - including balls.
I have this set so theirs 3 clicks SHOWING on the clamp, after say 30/45 minutes I make sure its at 5/6 clicks SHOWING.

I have worn this all thru'' the day inthe past and it works well in encouraging blood flow to the penis and also keeping the DHT, testostarone blodd in their longer.

Make sure if you do this all day to have the clicks showing on 5/6 otherwise circulation is effected.

Originally posted by SLICEDBEEF

If we already know that the penis contract's back to it's original size after an intense workout (due to the "stretch reflex" of the connective tissues), then how is the penis going to grow bigger if it's not in the stretch'd state while being repaired?!?!

Click to expand...

This makes no sense to me. The whole "it must heal in the stretched state or it will not get bigger" theory. It makes no sense at all.

Listen, if it were true, the only people who would report length gains would be those wearing an ADS. And we know that's not true. People have gained length without an ADS (I have)...... yes, their dicks were in the smaller, UNstretched state all day long while they healed, yet their erect sizes got bigger.

In addition, if the theory holds true, then no one would ever gain any girth....ever. Because no one walks around all day, healing, with a flaccid girth that is bigger than their erect size, not even with a cock ring.

The theory behind why an ADS would help ("if the repair process takes place in the smaller, unstretched state, no increase in size will occur") also implicitly states that no one can gain length without an ADS.... and that no one can gain any girth....ever.

Bib once posted something on �other forum� about collagen healing.... something about, when tears in collagen occur, if the fibers heal with the crenulations overlapping, then the fibers will heal back stronger and SMALLER than before. It therefore occured to me that, if this were true, then doing Penis Enlargement WITHOUT an ADS would result in a smaller and stronger cock. Well, that's simply not so. I KNOW I've gained without an ADS and others have also reported results without an ADS.

Lets get it on :fight:

First, I'm not saying that you have to use an ads for this to work and I'm not saying that everybody's connective tissues have the same amount of sensitivity to either the elastic or plastic nature.

Some people's connective tissue have more of a plastic nature than an elastic nature and therefor they may gain faster and easier than the less genetically gifted (as far as penis enlargement goes). For those people that have more of an elastic nature to their connective tissues...then they may get the gains of an "easygainer" through using an ads after the more intense workout... or they can just do a "maintinance" routine of manual stretches/jelq's every 1-4 hours throughout the day.

If you've gained without any "maintinance" (such as an ads or manual stretches every couple hours), then good for you.

In the past 2 week's, I've gained an 1/8" erect by doing an intense workout everday or 2 and then "maintinance" throughout the day of manual stretches...and I'm still gaining consistantly, it seem's like. As soon as I get my digital camera, I'll start posting pics of my progress...I really think this theory could help the "hardgainers"/"non-gainers" start to add some size faster.

Of course, it's just a theory (and could be wrong)...but a theory based on science nontheless. Only time will tell.

Good Luck with your gains.

Originally posted by SLICEDBEEF
First, I'm not saying that you have to use an ads for this to work and I'm not saying that everybody's connective tissues have the same amount of sensitivity to either the elastic or plastic nature.

Some people's connective tissue have more of a plastic nature than an elastic nature and therefor they may gain faster and easier than the less genetically gifted (as far as penis enlargement goes). For those people that have more of an elastic nature to their connective tissues...then they may get the gains of an "easygainer" through using an ads after the more intense workout... or they can just do a "maintinance" routine of manual stretches/jelq's every 1-4 hours throughout the day.

If you've gained without any "maintinance" (such as an ads or manual stretches every couple hours), then good for you.

In the past 2 week's, I've gained an 1/8" erect by doing an intense workout everday or 2 and then "maintinance" throughout the day of manual stretches...and I'm still gaining consistantly, it seem's like. As soon as I get my digital camera, I'll start posting pics of my progress...I really think this theory could help the "hardgainers"/"non-gainers" start to add some size faster.

Of course, it's just a theory (and could be wrong)...but a theory based on science nontheless. Only time will tell.

Good Luck with your gains.

Click to expand...

Before I begin, I want to apologize for the seemingly combative tone of the following reply. If you were talking to me in person, you'd see that I'm not pissed off at you. Unfortunately that doesn't always come across on the internet. So understand that this is an attack on your arguments and not an attack on you yourself.

It is tempting to try to rationalize the gains of anyone who doesn't fit with the plastic-tissue theory as the "luck of the easy gainer". But this is not the case for me.

It is wrong of you to assume that you know something about how easy or hard it is for me to gain....... it is also wrong for you to assume that you know something about how easy or hard it is for others in my situation (no use of an ADS) to gain.

You are merely assuming that I and others are easy gainers without any evidence to back that claim. You don't really know about my routines and gains so far, or my success and/or frustration so far.

I think you are poo-pooing an observation that does not fit your theory.

A scientist formulates theories to explain observed events. If you stop to examine your own theory, you will see that it does not explain observed events.

The "heal under the stretched state" theory implicitly states that it is not possible to gain WITHOUT an ADS. If the tissues are indeed plastic, then they must heal in the state of plastic deformation in order for permanent size changes to occur. Think it through and you will see what I mean. If the current theory as to why an ADS works is true, then it should also be impossible to gain without an ADS. Many have gained without an ADS (probably more have gained WITHOUT an ADS than with an ADS!), therefore the current theory explaining how an ADS works does not fit with observed fact. Therefore the current theory is wrong.

I am NOT saying that an ADS does not work. I am saying that the current theory explaining WHY it works is wrong.

Now, the explanation that "some men have plastic tissues and others have elastic tissues" MIGHT be viable theory to explain why some gain without an ADS, but I do not know of any scientific evidence to support the claim of a difference of that nature between men in penile tissue composition. It is an interesting suggestion, though.

But this theory does not account for girth gains. If it is necessary for men of a "plastic" tissue nature to heal in the stretched state, how do they ever gain any girth? No one walks around all day with a flaccid girth that is bigger than their usual erect girth - not even with a cockring, sorry (I've tried it).

Here are my own observations after 8 months of Penis Enlargement:

In my first four months of Penis Enlargement, I used mostly two handed squeezes and fulcrum stretches, for about 45 minutes a day, 5 days a week. I increased from a pre-Penis Enlargement 7 x 5.7 to 7.75 x 6 in those 4 months. Success!

Following those quick and easy gains, I greatly steeped up the intensity of my routine. For the next 4 months after that, I did at least 60 minutes a day of Penis Enlargement, often more. I would also Penis Enlargement 5 days a week minimum, oftentimes 6 or even 7. I did manual stretching, two handed squeezes, extreme girth work with the cable clamp, and even a little pumping. And a lot of piss pulls, too, throughout the day. I trained HARD and did not slack. I often had bloodspots and discoloration that would last for days and days, yet I trained through them regardless.

Yet despite that dilligent hard work, this supposed "easy gainer" gained exactly 0" x 0" in those 4 months. I still measured in a 7.75 x 6 after 4 months of busting my ass.

I have not Penis Enlargement'd in over a week now. I decided to take a break and decondition my unit in the hopes that a strategic deconditioning would help jumpstart my gains.

An interesting thing has happened in the last couple of days. Both today and yesterday - after more than a week of no Penis Enlargement at all - I measured at just a hair over 8" x 6.125", not my usual 7.75" x 6". This was the first time that I had ever been able to measure "cold" (not after a workout) and CLEARLY top 8" bp, after 4 months of jamming a ruler into my pubic bone and coming up short each and every time.

I have no idea if this gain is "cemented" or not - I don't even know if this will be there tomorrow.

But here's another observation : during this Penis Enlargement break, my flaccid size has been *smaller* than it was when I was Penis Enlargement-ing. So during the last week or so - during which time my cock was not stretched even once, and during which time I was walking around with a smaller than usual flaccid - I seemingly gained!

Like I said, I don't know if it'll be there tomorrow. But remember that the number of men who've gained WITHOUT an ADS is quite large- larger, I'd bet, than the number of men who've actually used an ADS and reported gains. This may be due to the fact that most men haven't even *tried* using ADS - but it also leaves us with a whole hell of a lot of "easy gainers" with "elastic rather than plastic" tissues. So many, in fact, that they can't be the exception to the rule (your post seems to imply that they are).

Before I begin, I want to apologize for the seemingly combative tone of the following reply. If you were talking to me in person, you'd see that I'm not pissed off at you. Unfortunately that doesn't always come across on the internet. So understand that this is an attack on your arguments and not an attack on you yourself.

No need to apologize... I understand that it's impossible to really convey emotions on a forum, unless your really trying.

"It is tempting to try to rationalize the gains of anyone who doesn't fit with the plastic-tissue theory as the "luck of the easy gainer". But this is not the case for me."

"It is wrong of you to assume that you know something about how easy or hard it is for me to gain....... it is also wrong for you to assume that you know something about how easy or hard it is for others in my situation (no use of an ADS) to gain."

"You are merely assuming that I and others are easy gainers without any evidence to back that claim. You don't really know about my routines and gains so far, or my success and/or frustration so far."

"I think you are poo-pooing an observation that does not fit your theory."

Like you're doing with this?

I'm sorry, what's wrong with "assuming" a theory to be possible... I've experienced gains after applying this... and yes, I was a typical "hardgainer" (compared from what I've noticed reading other's results of Penis Enlargement in general). I was merely trying to write a post that some people might find helpful...wich a few people have already stated that it fit's with what they've experienced and was helpful... and not just in this thread... What about BIB, who claimed to have hung for hour's a day and gained a massive amount of size from it?

I'm sorry it wasn't helpful for you and I'm sorry that it "offended" you.

"A scientist formulates theories to explain observed events..."

Where did you get this?

Definition of the word "theory" from the Websters Dictionary.

1: General principles of a subject 2: Plausible or scientifically acceptable explination 3: Judgment, guess or opinion

"...If you stop to examine your own theory, you will see that it does not explain observed events."

OK...by your definition...

Do you mean that it hasn't been proven that there are in fact connective tissues in your penis (such as the tunica, ligs, etc.) that limit the expansion and/or length?

What about the fact that connective tissue tends to have an elastic/plastic nature?

What about the fact of genetic differing and the possibility that there may be a higher plastic to elastic ratio and vise-versa in different people? Might explain why some people end up with knee problems due to loosening ligaments and some people grow elderly with no knee problems.

It may not fit with your definition of "theory", But it is a plausible possibility, that might be able to help some people that have tried everything and still have not gained...or gained very little... wich happens quite a bit...and happened with me.


"The "heal under the stretched state" theory implicitly states that it is not possible to gain WITHOUT an ADS. If the tissues are indeed plastic, then they must heal in the state of plastic deformation in order for permanent size changes to occur. Think it through and you will see what I mean. If the current theory as to why an ADS works is true, then it should also be impossible to gain without an ADS. Many have gained without an ADS (probably more have gained WITHOUT an ADS than with an ADS!), therefore the current theory explaining how an ADS works does not fit with observed fact. Therefore the current theory is wrong."

First, you keep mentioning ads...this "theory" doesn't require the use of an ads.
Have you ever heard of traction? Do you know exactly what these people went through to gain without an ads?... It's wrong of you to assume that there are more people that have gained without an ADS than with an ads ...all kiddin aside... Does it neccisarily mean that it's the best way?

Like I've already mentioned... this "thoery" might be helpful to other people that have not gained and have tried everything. If you've gained without using this theory...then great. It goes with the fact that everbody is different in one way or another because of differing genetics...wich I've stated from the begining...I've never stated that this "theory" is set in stone for everybody...

"I am NOT saying that an ADS does not work. I am saying that the current theory explaining WHY it works is wrong."

There are alway's more than one way to skin a cat... why can't there be a few different way's for people to achieve the same end-result, based on different theories?

Now, the explanation that "some men have plastic tissues and others have elastic tissues" MIGHT be viable theory to explain why some gain without an ADS, but I do not know of any scientific evidence to support the claim of a difference of that nature between men in penile tissue composition. It is an interesting suggestion, though.

LOL...That's why I called this whole idea...a "Theory"...and not proven fact.

All I did was try and connect the dots of theory/science into a bigger picture... what's wrong with that?

"But this theory does not account for girth gains. If it is necessary for men of a "plastic" tissue nature to heal in the stretched state, how do they ever gain any girth? No one walks around all day with a flaccid girth that is bigger than their usual erect girth - not even with a cockring, sorry (I've tried it). "

Why are there people who experience girth gains, using only lengthening exercises?

>>>>>Like you're doing with this?

Like I am doing with what? You lost me.


>>>>>I'm sorry, what's wrong with "assuming" a theory to be possible... I've experienced gains after applying this... and yes, I was a typical "hardgainer" (compared from what I've noticed reading other's results of Penis Enlargement in general). I was merely trying to write a post that some people might find helpful...wich a few people have already stated that it fit's with what they've experienced and was helpful... and not just in this thread... What about BIB, who claimed to have hung for hour's a day and gained a massive amount of size from it?


What about him? I am trying to understand his relevance to your "heal under strecthed state" argument. Are you suggesting that he was healing while he was hanging?

> I'm sorry it wasn't helpful for you and I'm sorry that it "offended" you.

>>>>"A scientist formulates theories to explain observed events..."

>>>>>Where did you get this?


From the dictionary:

Theory:

1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.

Also, I happen to be involved in science myself. I'm currently working on my Masters in Human Nutrition. I guarantee you that my definition is compatible with a scientist's definition.





>>>>Do you mean that it hasn't been proven that there are in fact connective tissues in your penis (such as the tunica, ligs, etc.) that limit the expansion and/or length?


No. I don't know where you are getting this from.


>>>>>What about the fact that connective tissue tends to have an elastic/plastic nature?

>>>>What about the fact of genetic differing and the possibility that there may be a higher plastic to elastic ratio and vise-versa in different people?


As I said in my second post....this sounds very interesting, the idea that there might be a difference in plastic/elastic ratio between people. And as I asked before, is there any evidence that such differences exist? I would be interested to know.


>>>>>It may not fit with your definition of "theory",


I use the same definition as every scientist on the planet.


>>>>>But it is a plausible possibility, that might be able to help some people that have tried everything and still have not gained...or gained very little... wich happens quite a bit...and happened with me.


>>>>>>"The "heal under the stretched state" theory implicitly states that it is not possible to gain WITHOUT an ADS. If the tissues are indeed plastic, then they must heal in the state of plastic deformation in order for permanent size changes to occur. Think it through and you will see what I mean. If the current theory as to why an ADS works is true, then it should also be impossible to gain without an ADS. Many have gained without an ADS (probably more have gained WITHOUT an ADS than with an ADS!), therefore the current theory explaining how an ADS works does not fit with observed fact. Therefore the current theory is wrong."

>>>>>First, you keep mentioning ads...this "theory" doesn't require the use of an ads.

OK, but it does require helaing in the stretched state, correct? Now, how is that possible without an ADS?


Piss-pulls throughout that day?

Now how many minutes are devoted towards piss pulls each day? 30 minutes or so? So are you suggesting that all of the healing occurs during those 30 minutes of piss pulls, thus allowing the tissues to heal in the stretched state? What is happening the oyher 23 hours and 30 minutes of day, when you are not wearing an ADS, when you are not doing piss pulls? No healing?

>>>>Have you ever heard of traction?


Yes.


>>>>Do you know exactly what these people went through to gain without an ads?


No.


>>>>>>... It's wrong of you to assume that there are more people that have gained without an ADS than with an ads


No it isn't. I base this assertion on the vast majority of posts that I have read on �other forum� and MOS. Unless these people are lying... or maybe all the ADS people are lurkers..... but there's no reason to assume either of those two things.


>>>>>>> ...all kiddin aside... Does it neccisarily mean that it's the best way?


No, of course not.

Remember, as I stated before, I know there are people who have reported gains from using an ADS and/or piss pulls. I'm not denying that they work. What I am trying to do is understand HOW they (and all other Penis Enlargement) work..... so far none of the theories that I have heard so far can explained all the observations.

I am not singling you out......these posts are conveying my general frustration with our lack of understanding of how Penis Enlargement works. I said "our" and I mean all of us... myself included.

>>>>>Like I've already mentioned... this "thoery" might be helpful to other people that have not gained and have tried everything. If you've gained without using this theory...then great. It goes with the fact that everbody is different in one way or another because of differing genetics...wich I've stated from the begining...I've never stated that this "theory" is set in stone for everybody...

>>>>>>"I am NOT saying that an ADS does not work. I am saying that the current theory explaining WHY it works is wrong."

>>>>>>>There are alway's more than one way to skin a cat... why can't there be a few different way's for people to achieve the same end-result, based on different theories?


Look, there's nothing wrong with trying different things in order to find what works. I'm not going to hunt you down, track you down on the street, pull down your pants and rip off your ADS, or follow you into the bathroom and break your fingers for attemptng piss pulls. Do them and good luck with your gains, etc etc.

I'm just trying to understand WHY Penis Enlargement works. So far the explanations I have heard don't make sense. That doesn't mean I FORBID people from trying different things. If anything, I hope that you do try different things and report back to us with your results.



>>>>>>Now, the explanation that "some men have plastic tissues and others have elastic tissues" MIGHT be viable theory to explain why some gain without an ADS, but I do not know of any scientific evidence to support the claim of a difference of that nature between men in penile tissue composition. It is an interesting suggestion, though.

>>>>>LOL...That's why I called this whole idea...a "Theory"...and not proven fact.

>>>>All I did was try and connect the dots of theory/science into a bigger picture... what's wrong with that?


I didn;t say anything was wrong with that. I am in fact trying to do the same thing.

>>>>"But this theory does not account for girth gains. If it is necessary for men of a "plastic" tissue nature to heal in the stretched state, how do they ever gain any girth? No one walks around all day with a flaccid girth that is bigger than their usual erect girth - not even with a cockring, sorry (I've tried it). "

>>>>>Why are there people who experience girth gains, using only lengthening exercises?

I don;t know. But your response avoid the issue: if the plastic tissue heal under stretched state theory is true, how do you explain those who report girth gains from girth exercises?

"I think you are poo-pooing an observation that does not fit your theory."

Like you're doing with this?


"Like I am doing with what? You lost me."

Your "Poo-pooing" my theory because it doesn't fit with your experience and/or you can't visualize want I'm trying to explain and/or the words I use don't go by a perfect definition of your choosing.


I'm sorry, what's wrong with "assuming" a theory to be possible... I've experienced gains after applying this... and yes, I was a typical "hardgainer" (compared from what I've noticed reading other's results of Penis Enlargement in general). I was merely trying to write a post that some people might find helpful...wich a few people have already stated that it fit's with what they've experienced and was helpful... and not just in this thread... What about BIB, who claimed to have hung for hour's a day and gained a massive amount of size from it?


"What about him? I am trying to understand his relevance to your "heal under strecthed state" argument. Are you suggesting that he was healing while he was hanging?"

I'm sure his body was adapting somewhat under that stretched state...yes...if not more so by a traction method. Of course, I believe that he spead up the traction by fatigueing (due to hanging) the penis and keeping it to his maxed stretch for hours a day. The same way lots of guys have used "shock routines" to gain permanent results very quickly... except my theory isn't so extreme.

There are lot's of information on all the Penis Enlargement boards that support this "theory".

"Also, I happen to be involved in science myself. I'm currently working on my Masters in Human Nutrition. I guarantee you that my definition is compatible with a scientist's definition."

Good for you...you've contributed alot to this thread and helped alot of people.... :s


Do you mean that it hasn't been proven that there are in fact connective tissues in your penis (such as the tunica, ligs, etc.) that limit the expansion and/or length?


"No. I don't know where you are getting this from."

Ok, are you new to Penis Enlargement? You can do a search or look in pretty much any anatomy book and see what I'm referring to. If your a study guy...your a scientist...so why don't find them and prove to me that these connective tissues don't exist...instead of saying you've never heard of them and therfor it's irrilivant.

I'm not a scientist, so I don't think your definition of theory applies to me. I'm just a guy on a message board that is trying to put up a helpful post.

You big scientist picking apart us little stupid guy's post because we are not following the laws of how a "real" scientist should come to a possible theory...why don't you help make this better if you are a scientist instead of picking apart and critsizing?

I don't have the tools or money to conduct experiments to see if what I say is completely true...but I do have other information that I can use, such as this message board, internet, etc. to get my information and come up with a "Laymen's theory".

"I use the same definition as every scientist on the planet."

Awesome...good for you... I'm not a scientist, I'm more of what you'd call a compulsive learner and inventor and writer.

"The "heal under the stretched state" theory implicitly states that it is not possible to gain WITHOUT an ADS. If the tissues are indeed plastic, then they must heal in the state of plastic deformation in order for permanent size changes to occur. Think it through and you will see what I mean. If the current theory as to why an ADS works is true, then it should also be impossible to gain without an ADS. Many have gained without an ADS (probably more have gained WITHOUT an ADS than with an ADS!), therefore the current theory explaining how an ADS works does not fit with observed fact. Therefore the current theory is wrong."

Ok, what I mean by healing in the stretched state can also mean adapting in the stretched state... If you can keep you connective tissues (including other tissues) in the stretched state (because connective tissues tend to go back to their original size...after some time) then your penis should adapt to the stressors similar to traction. I'm not a scientist, but why can't there be more than one way to skin a cat? Just because one way works for a few people...doesn't mean that this can't work either, like you are implying.


"Piss-pulls throughout that day? "

"Now how many minutes are devoted towards piss pulls each day? 30 minutes or so? So are you suggesting that all of the healing occurs during those 30 minutes of piss pulls, thus allowing the tissues to heal in the stretched state? What is happening the oyher 23 hours and 30 minutes of day, when you are not wearing an ADS, when you are not doing piss pulls? No healing?"

No, you didn't read any of my post's very good... you might want to go back. Since you are constintly keeping the connective tissues and the penis stretched out every 2 hours or so...then you are therefor not allowing the connective tissues to return back to their original size during heal/adaptation time...wich they tend to contract back, over a course of a certain timeframe.


"But this theory does not account for girth gains. If it is necessary for men of a "plastic" tissue nature to heal in the stretched state, how do they ever gain any girth? No one walks around all day with a flaccid girth that is bigger than their usual erect girth - not even with a cockring, sorry (I've tried it). "

Why are there people who experience girth gains, using only lengthening exercises?

"I don;t know. But your response avoid the issue: if the plastic tissue heal under stretched state theory is true, how do you explain those who report girth gains from girth exercises?"

I wasn't trying to avoid the question considering I've already explained my theory on all this in previous post's... which you seem to be picking apart based on the definition of every word I use... and not disproving it with any evidence... but anyways...

Think of it as blowing up a balloon. You keep it blown up to it's max for a while. You now release the air and you'll see that most of the size is gone... but you were still successful in causing somewhat of a permanent size gain...without needing to keep it stretched non-stop all day. The balloon actually acts alot like connective tissues except we have the ability to heal, so therefore we can do it multiple times a day for days on end.

NOW, I know you are a scinetist and your going to be asking me where my evidence is. I've read alot about the human body and to be honest I don't exactly remember where I read this information, but I read it. So if you are dedicated to proving my post wrong... prove it with scientific evedince... you being the MOS scientist an all.

>>>>>Your "Poo-pooing" my theory because it doesn't fit with your experience


No, I am "poo-pooing" your theory because it doesn't fit with the reports of a great many who have Penis Enlargement'd, not just my own.


>>>>>and/or you can't visualize want I'm trying to explain


No, I believe I understand what your theory says. If I have mischaracterized your theory and attacked a straw man, please point out how and I will gladly apologize.


>>>>"What about him? I am trying to understand his relevance to your "heal under strecthed state" argument. Are you suggesting that he was healing while he was hanging?"

>>>>>I'm sure his body was adapting somewhat under that stretched state...yes...if not more so by a traction method.


Ok, so just to be clear on this one so that I don't misrepresent you, are you or are you not of the opinion that spending long hours hanging allowed Bib to heal or adapt in the stretched state?


>>>> There are lot's of information on all the Penis Enlargement boards that support this "theory".


Yes there are. But there are also lots of reports that contradict the theory as well.

Bear in mind.... I don't claim to have the answers here, nor do I claim to have the correct theory. I'm pointing out our need for new theories. And again... I'm not criticizing you for trying..... I'm criticizing the theory.



>>>>"Also, I happen to be involved in science myself. I'm currently working on my Masters in Human Nutrition. I guarantee you that my definition is compatible with a scientist's definition."

>>>>Good for you...you've contributed alot to this thread and helped alot of people.... :s




Since I am trying my best to keep this civil and attack your arguments rather than attack you, maybe you could try to do the same, yeah?



>>>>>Do you mean that it hasn't been proven that there are in fact connective tissues in your penis (such as the tunica, ligs, etc.) that limit the expansion and/or length?


>>>>>"No. I don't know where you are getting this from."

>>>>Ok, are you new to Penis Enlargement? You can do a search or look in pretty much any anatomy book and see what I'm referring to.


Oops! Looks like I read that one too fast before I responded. I thought you were asking me if I believed that it hasn't been proven that there are connective tissues etc. etc in the penis... to which I responded "no" because I didn't know why you would think that I don't believe that there are connective tissues in the penis. My bad. Yes, of course, there are connective tissues that limit the expansion of the penis.



>>>>>You big scientist picking apart us little stupid guy's post because we are not following the laws of how a "real" scientist should come to a possible theory...


I'm still more like a "scientist in training" at this point. Also, I am not trying to make you feel stupid. Please calm down.



>>>> why don't you help make this better if you are a scientist instead of picking apart and critsizing?



Part of trying to make a better theory is recognizing the flaws in existing one. This is what I am attempting to do.



>>>>>>Ok, what I mean by healing in the stretched state can also mean adapting in the stretched state... If you can keep you connective tissues (including other tissues) in the stretched state (because connective tissues tend to go back to their original size...after some time)






"If you can keep your connective tissues in the stretched state". I know of no other way to do this other than by using an ADS. Well, you could just stay home and pull on your penis all day too.

Now, look: your argument for why "adapting in the stretched state" would work is this: ""because connective tissues tend to go back to their original size after some time". Okay. This implies that those who DO NOT "adapt in the stretched state" will not tend to gain.

You are making a general comment here about connective tissue here...not just "a hard gainer's conective tissue". This statement applies to pretty much everyone who Penis Enlargement's WITHOUT "adapting in the stretched state", which I believe, refers to those who do not use an ADS, or who do not hang for as many hours as Bib, etc. Which means, the majority of those that Penis Enlargement. I.e, most of us.

What about those who gain from 20 to 30 minutes a day of stretching? Surely this time frame is too short to allow "adapting in the stretched state." How do they manage to gain, then, if "connective tissues tend to go back to their original size" if they do not adapt in the stretched state? No more talk of easy gainers. You are making a general statement about how connective tissue works, so that must apply to all of us.... or at least MOST of us, yeah?

And to reiterate... I know that using an ADS, or long hours of hanging, have worked for many. I am merely suggesting that we don't know, right now, WHY it works.


>>>>>No, you didn't read any of my post's very good... you might want to go back. Since you are constintly keeping the connective tissues and the penis stretched out every 2 hours or so...then you are therefor not allowing the connective tissues to return back to their original size during heal/adaptation time...wich they tend to contract back, over a course of a certain timeframe.


This is an interesting thought. So by regularly stretching, you reopen the tears before they heal in the "small" state, is that what you are suggesting?




>>>>>"But this theory does not account for girth gains. If it is necessary for men of a "plastic" tissue nature to heal in the stretched state, how do they ever gain any girth? No one walks around all day with a flaccid girth that is bigger than their usual erect girth - not even with a cockring, sorry (I've tried it). "

>>>>>>Why are there people who experience girth gains, using only lengthening exercises?

>>>>>>"I don;t know. But your response avoid the issue: if the plastic tissue heal under stretched state theory is true, how do you explain those who report girth gains from girth exercises?"

>>>>>>I wasn't trying to avoid the question considering I've already explained my theory on all this in previous post's... which you seem to be picking apart based on the definition of every word I use... and not disproving it with any evidence... but anyways...

>>>>>>Think of it as blowing up a balloon. You keep it blown up to it's max for a while. You now release the air and you'll see that most of the size is gone...




With you so far. We've stretched the balloon, now it's gone back down to it's original size (mostly)....




>but you were still successful in causing somewhat of a permanent size gain...




Aha! The mere act of stretching it has caused the size to increase permanently ever so slightly. Nothing here about the balloon adapting in a stretched state or whatever (unless the adaptation is instantaneously the moment we stretch it, which I don't think either of us believes to be the case!)....




>>>>without needing to keep it stretched non-stop all day.



This is what I am saying re: Penis Enlargement. There are so many Penis Enlargement-er's who have reported gaining without needing to keep it stretched all day....




>>>> The balloon actually acts alot like connective tissues except we have the ability to heal,




OK. Now, this is where I have the problem. What is happening when the connective tissues heal in Penis Enlargement? In successfull Penis Enlargement, they heal larger. As you just explained with the balloon example, they don't need to stay in the stretched state in order to show a permanent size increase, correct?

But you are arguing that while they don't NEED to be in the stretched state while adapting, it HELPS to be, especially if you are a hard gainer, right?

So far I am with you. I even agree with you up to this point! But here's the rub: WHY does it help the "hardgainer" to heal (adapt, whatever) in the stretched state? What is the proposed theory as to why it helps? Show me an explanation as to why it helps that does NOT imply that one can't gain without healing in the stretched state.

That's the problem. Every explanation I have heard so far implies just that.

So you see..... I have no problem with you, your methods, or your plans. Try your new approach and God Bless. I'm expressing my frustration over the fact that here we all are, pulling and tugging and squeezing away to get bigger dicks..... without really knowing precisely what is happening in our tissues.

And since we're talking about scientists.... let me also express my frustration over the fact that almost all scientists think that Penis Enlargement is total bullshit and will probably NEVER devote any research into how or why Penis Enlargement works.

Think I will step in here, before summut starts.

No need to keep QUOTEING it will wind people up as its like ya saying you know best....no offense just a heads up...it does piss people off when it keeps happening over and over like in that post.

Keep it clean as ya both have and I see no probz....dont let this get out of hand in here.


thanks

carry on

:fight:

OK. Now, this is where I have the problem. What is happening when the connective tissues heal in Penis Enlargement? In successfull Penis Enlargement, they heal larger. As you just explained with the balloon example, they don't need to stay in the stretched state in order to show a permanent size increase, correct?

Click to expand...

Yes, but for the hard gainer it goes to the "theorized" principle of everybody has a different sensitivity to the plastic/elastic nature of the ligs... For instance... like I've already explained... The "hard-gainers" might have a higher elastic to plastic nature to there ligs/connective tissues and the "easy-gainers" might have a higher plastic to elastic nature to their ligs/connective tissues. You can obsorve that this is a pretty good theory considering their a cases where young men and women have knee problems due to loosening of the ligs and their are elderly that have no loosening of the ligs in their knees.

So, the bolloon analogy still hold's merit if you consider this theory that some people might need to continue with "maintinance" throughout the day, to get this permanent increase that the "easy-gainers" get with just 15-30 minutes of exercise a day.

But you are arguing that while they don't NEED to be in the stretched state while adapting, it HELPS to be, especially if you are a hard gainer, right?

Click to expand...

Yes...especially if you are a hard-gainer.

So far I am with you. I even agree with you up to this point! But here's the rub: WHY does it help the "hardgainer" to heal (adapt, whatever) in the stretched state? What is the proposed theory as to why it helps? Show me an explanation as to why it helps that does NOT imply that one can't gain without healing in the stretched state.

Click to expand...

I never implied that one can't gain without being in the stretched state...It goes back to the theory that everbody has a different reaction to stress on their ligs, due to each indivdual's own "ratio" of plastic to elastic properties.

At a microscopic level, then it might have to do with the microscopic tears....or it could be due to more of a traction method but accelerated due to the previous fatigue of the more intense workout...wich might also have to do with microscopic tears. since I don't have the money or resources to conduct a experiment...then this theory is as complete as it's going to get and still make sence...to me at least.

So far I am with you. I even agree with you up to this point! But here's the rub: WHY does it help the "hardgainer" to heal (adapt, whatever) in the stretched state? What is the proposed theory as to why it helps? Show me an explanation as to why it helps that does NOT imply that one can't gain without healing in the stretched state.

Click to expand...

I thought I've already explained...let me try again. everybody tends to adapt to stress in one way or another (weightlifting, tanning, etc).
By doing "high-intensity" pe workout and then doing "maintinance" throughout the day then in "theory", you might be able to get the best results due to the "ratio of plastic to elastic properties of the individual's connective tissues"... For me it has worked and also for other's experiences I've come across.

Now, it might not work for the "easy-gainer" due to overtraining and possible injuring the connective tissues because they in theory have a higher plastic to elastic properties.

The whole idea of this theory is to fatigue the connective tissues and penis itself (with high-intensity) and then do "maintinance" to keep the connective tissues expanded a longer time so the body has a better chance of adapting at this size... or close to it. I guess you could say that your getting the best of both world's (intensity and traction or what ever "stretches/jelqs/etc. throughout the day would be called)

I don't really know what other way to explain it...maybe I'm not understanding what your asking?

Well, we might as well wrap up this thread. I think we've both made some ggod points here.

I can see that your position is that, for those who gain without an ADS, their tissues are more elastic than plastic. As I said before, this sounds like a really interesting explanation. As you stated:

"Now, it might not work for the "easy-gainer" due to overtraining and possible injuring the connective tissues because they in theory have a higher plastic to elastic properties."

Now what I personally need to do is sift through some literature on collagen and see what I can dig up on this subject. You were reluctant to provide specific references for this idea, saying that was something that you had read or heard at various times but weren't sure of the source. Now because I'm so anal, and because I have decided that NOT knowing is going to bug the shit out of me until I DO know, I'll probably be in the library digging shit up when I'm supposed to be studying.

Now what I personally need to do is sift through some literature on collagen and see what I can dig up on this subject. You were reluctant to provide specific references for this idea, saying that was something that you had read or heard at various times but weren't sure of the source. Now because I'm so anal, and because I have decided that NOT knowing is going to bug the shit out of me until I DO know, I'll probably be in the library digging shit up when I'm supposed to be studying.

Click to expand...

Sorry bout that... ... I could probably find all the sources, but It would take me a freak'n month... For crying out loud, I'm lazy and I just figured out how to use the Quoted messages properly.lol

But, I don't believe that an ADS would cause injury to the "easygainer" because the tension is not enough! I was thinking more in term's of, multiple medium to high-intensity workout's a day that might be overkill for what they are wanting to accomplish. Next time I'll try and write the whole thing out more clearly.

Peace



Good Luck