My girl wants to have a threesome with another girl!!!

What the fuck- silence of the lambs shit up in here??? ha i didn't read through everything but yeah the part about compairing the high of a threesome to murdering people for sport? MTCFB, i'm not trying to get personal and you don't have to answer anything but did something happen that made you want to get a bigger dick, this is a forum for that. when you say,
"I mean, think about it this way. If you need some really special fetish to "get you off" then you are not very efficient sexually as you need more than someone not desensitized by ����, extreme sex, bizarre fetishes etc. That is why people who brag about being "more extreme" than the next guy are pretty sili if the next guy can be just as happy with less. The person who is more "extreme" and lives a lifestyle of being extreme is just less efficient at getting his jollies to keep those hormones in your brain telling you that you are happy."

You can change the "more extreme" part to "bigger dick" and i think thats why a lot of people are here. It just seems liek your saying be happy with the life you have-yet everyone here is trying to change one of the most important aspects of his life. In a very simplistic overview, i think three somes are for some people and not for others. It's like some people are gay and others are not. I'm straight and would never think of being with a guy-it's jsut not for me. But if anyone is gay then good for that person i hope he's happy and its his descision.

Jakb... i say go for it and have fun with it if you want, threesomes can disrupt a relationship but anything can- and if you don't take the chance now you could regret it totally your descision.

I must absolutly stand with that what mick said.

Jakb, the most important thing in life is that you are happy. I mean you can always see things the good and bad way but in the end it doesn't realy matter. Everybody has got to find out what they want and need to be happy and should do the best to accomplish that. You can be the best person in the world but it still won't make you happy if it isn't that what you realy want.

Jakb that said i hope you find that what you want and i hope you and you're wife will have a lot of fun with you're shared desire. And if that makes you two more happy with you're both lives then there is nothing else you should do.

sikdogg said:

MCTFB, bro whatever... i was gonna reply to your post but it's just to tedious and i just don't have the energy today. I think we've highjacked this thread long enough. Why don't you re-read Jakb's first and second post again, he clearly was not asking for advice on whether to do a 3-some or not but HOW to find a girl to join him and his GF.

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If you read my first post, I mentioned a site which talks about how to make it happen and I was not passing judgement on him, just saying he might want to think twice about it. I mean, if you think with your dick 24x7 you get dumbasses like Bill Clinton getting head in the Oval Office or else other people high up in the government giving away state secrets because some whore was paid to get him into a compromising and scandalous position where he is in the position of being blackmailed.

sikdogg said:

Bro, life is all about experiences and you only get to live it once, don't be so afraid of the unkown or of falling down and scraping knee.

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That is your perception of what life is all about and frankly my perception of what life is all about is radically different than life being all about "experiences". To me life is about accomplishment and leaving future generations with a better world than your own generation. Maybe, America would not be so fucked up as it is today if there were less lazy and decadent people gambling with their marriages, families, kids, and other areas of their life just to get their nut off. Do you have children? I mean, if threesomes were such a great thing why not tell your children openly that a couple times a month mommy and daddy get naked with other people and share various bodily fluids in an exciting way?

sikdogg said:

It happens and you grow from it, this is what it means to live. You sound like a smart guy, but i think you over analyze things and i definitely think you need to get off your soapbox. Do what's good for you and i'll do the same... 'nuff said.

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Again, don't confuse your reasons for living with my reasons for living or those of anyone else. Also, giving only one side of the argument when someone is going to possibly engage in something which they may regret later on down the road (for example, when I found out my ex-GF willingly had group sex with other people it bothered me a lot even though I tried to get over it because I loved her). To say "well you are just not mature enough to handle it" is like saying to some kid who watched their parents get murdered in another country that they "just are not mature enough to handle it". In many cultures, sex outside of marriage is very taboo while stoning women for adultery is not. You can argue which culture is superior all you want, but the people in that culture would say you are decadent and evil while you say they are backwards and cruel.

In most moderated cultures there is a lot of emotional emphasis placed on life, death, and the creation of life (sex), and the creation of death (murder). Some emphasize life or death in different amounts and in different ways such as in the United States and the west where the creation of life is not treated with a lot of respect, but the prevention of death is given a lot of attention.

sikdogg said:

See ya around the board... and no hard feelings.

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Same.

Stop the madness!!!

MICKsnatch said:

What the fuck- silence of the lambs shit up in here??? ha i didn't read through everything but yeah the part about compairing the high of a threesome to murdering people for sport? MTCFB, i'm not trying to get personal and you don't have to answer anything but did something happen that made you want to get a bigger dick, this is a forum for that. when you say,
"I mean, think about it this way. If you need some really special fetish to "get you off" then you are not very efficient sexually as you need more than someone not desensitized by ����, extreme sex, bizarre fetishes etc. That is why people who brag about being "more extreme" than the next guy are pretty sili if the next guy can be just as happy with less. The person who is more "extreme" and lives a lifestyle of being extreme is just less efficient at getting his jollies to keep those hormones in your brain telling you that you are happy."

You can change the "more extreme" part to "bigger dick" and i think thats why a lot of people are here. It just seems liek your saying be happy with the life you have-yet everyone here is trying to change one of the most important aspects of his life. In a very simplistic overview, i think three somes are for some people and not for others. It's like some people are gay and others are not. I'm straight and would never think of being with a guy-it's jsut not for me. But if anyone is gay then good for that person i hope he's happy and its his descision.

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One could argue that, but people have a desire to get a bigger dick for a lot of different reasons. For me it is to remove an innate psychological weakness that lies deep in my subconscious that has caused me problems in the past in various aspects of life and well unless someone comes up with brain surgery to make men believe that size does not matter, I could either choose to live certain parts of my life in fear and insecurity or else I could do something about it.

For me, having a bigger dick is not about "being happier" but about removing a major weakness as a man so I can more readily concentrate on other areas of life. For other people, maybe earning more money would remove a weakness they have or for other people getting in good shape so you look like you are not the kind of guy who is easily bullied. Some people would call this self-improvement, but I would just say it is self-defense.

If you have no glaring weaknesses that can get in your head, then you always have the upper hand intellectually and emotionally when dealing with other people, sometimes people not very friendly to you. I guess that depends on whether you want to live a normal life, or else a life where having a psychological edge on other people is a necessity, but for me a normal and mediocre life is just not for me.

A life which is all about hedonism and happiness is a pretty empty life from my perspective. A life where of sacrifice for other people so that they can at least have a somewhat happy life I feel is more fulfilling than just selfishly always thinking about your own emotional needs.

Hedonists only care about what they are getting out of life and though they usually won't go out and do things which make them happy at the major expense of others, they are too busy pursuing a decadent lifestyle to even think more than a few moments about the people in the world who have nothing. And then when something bad happens to a hedonist they are the whiniest and bitchiest people on planet earth when they wonder why their government or someone else is not doing anything to get their lives back on track.

OK, maybe I am getting off on a tangent here, but I think it is wrong to assume everyone here is getting a bigger dick for the same reasons.

Im getting extremely tired of this! Ive sat back and tried to let this wash over but it seems that it wont.

I asked for help. The help I know some people here could give.

What I am getting from you right now is not what I asked for. So by doing something I have asked to stop, YOU ARE PUTTING YOURSELF FIRST. This contradicts your points. You are now on a self righteous, egotistical path trying desperately to prove yourself right. The ONLY people I know that have this deep need to insistently defend themselves do so because they truly dont know what their belief system is and are struggling to find it. They do this by trying to convince others that they are right. All for the simple fact that they are SELFISH. If you can convince another person that you are right then you can go on feeling slightly better and more secure because you "might" actually be on the correct path and belief system. This is selfish. It is an energy steal.

When you first replied to this email, you didnt look for what I was asking. You replied with your own agenda. This means you were trying to prove a point. You also stated that you didnt pass judgement on the act or "us" but you just dont realize that you did. The judgement you passed was that you were more intelligent. I surely wouldnt be thinking of doing this act if I possibly knew as much as you do. This is ego. You needed to point out the things that I couldnt possibly have thought of "because of my lesser intelligence" and you needed to step in to save me. You assume that I didnt weigh out the risks versus the benefits myself. I have thought of the positives and the negatives long before I posted this asking for help from my Penis Enlargement brothers.

Before you reply, which I know you will have to. I want you to seriously sit down and think open mindedly about what I wrote before you respond.

Ha...this has been a very interesting reag though...Good luck with the 3 way jakb!

MCTFB, I don't know if I'm the only one, but I agree with everything you've said here in this thread 100%. Living simply to please the senses is to simply become servant of the senses. This is to be slave of the senses, and the senses are not a master that is known to be very mindful of their servant. It is said that hell is where all of your material desires are fulfilled; all hell would "break loose" so to speak if that were to happen. It may seem very pleasant, but actually, on a much deeper level, it is hurting you in the end, and MCTFB has explained that much at least on the psychological level.

"Open minded" does not mean to simply accept what other people say and half-heartedly think, "oh, that is okay, but this is how I want to live". Open minded means open to hear what is real and true... that which is beyond opinion. Of course people may try and say that to claim to know that which is beyond opinion is to think you are better than someone else, but this simply is not true, that is just an opinion. 1+1=2, it just does, there's no opinion involved. There are psychological levels involved here, and it has nothing to do with your opinion, or how you wish to enjoy, or even being "open minded" (though it does take that to try to understand it). There are just some things that are hard to give the tangible physical proof that most need to understand it, but at least the psychological evidence can be given. For example, the atheist is always asking for some lump of matter that can be tested in a lab in order to prove there is a God. This is not possible; some things just cannot be explained by matter and the senses alone.

There is nothing at all inherently "wrong" with having a threesome. There is also nothing inherently "wrong" with murdering. Technically the "wrongness" of such actions are due to the moral system that is specific to human beings, no other known species has such considerations.

I think it should be very obvious that neither MCTFB nor I are trying to be self-righteous, pompous, holier-than-thou, and whatnot. Simply trying to say that on a psychological level, there are deeper unseen effects. You can go do whatever you wish and that is perfectly fine, but isn't it nice to know the whole story? I know I'd feel gypped if I didn't know all sides of a situation, and think it is nice to go into a situation knowing for sure that it is what you want to do, all possible outcomes and consequences considered. Not to say that one or the other is better than the other, on a material level. It is quite possible that you’ve already thought through all these cause/effects and this is why you posted here, however MCTFB was not aware of this and wanted to be kind enough to help you see all sides, not to say that he was trying to tell you it was wrong or steer you away from it. Whatever happens is solely up to the individual. There may be consequences, but they might either not care, or want those consequences. It isn’t evil to try to let those consequences be known though, so why bash on him?

By the way, being egotistical has nothing to do with trying to provide all the different consequences or effects to a cause, or letting others know those. It should be obvious that MCTFB wasn't trying to force a belief on anyone, nor am I. The ego, however, does cause you to want to enjoy through the senses as much as one can. Heh, this seems like it should be in the deep thoughts section at this point, but then the original question of the post was answered with the link in MCTFB’s first post, as well as others’.

If you don't agree with anything I've said you have every right and freedom to ignore it. I certainly meant no harm nor to force any beliefs on others. Please feel free to think, do, and live as you please, for that is your choice and not mine.

Tired of this bullshit...

I asked for help finding a girl for a threesome, not for all sides of the story and ethical/moral issues associated with it. By trying to "HELP" me by deciding what you think is best for me is pointless to both of us.

So unless any further posts are helping me with WHAT IVE ASKED FOR HELP WITH, I am tired of wasting my energy on it.

No one tried to tell you what they think is best for you. I'd repost the link that MCTFB posted in his first post here to help you, but then that would be redundant. You could have ignored what I said.

"There is nothing at all inherently "wrong" with having a threesome. There is also nothing inherently "wrong" with murdering. Technically the "wrongness" of such actions are due to the moral system that is specific to human beings, no other known species has such considerations."

So are you saying 3 somes are wrong?
There are so many things that are wrong if you follow any sets of beliefs. Stuff and MCTFB (who seem extremely similar), you guys seems to be using religious, cultural, and self respecting beliefs. In many religions its wrong to jerk off, yet almost every male does it. It's wrong to lie but who here has never told a lie. I could go on for hours of normal day things every person does that is considered "wrong". Yes, these things are easily avoidable and can be worked on...the only reason i m posting becuase i think its really fucked up to have a comparison of murder to a three way...virtually trivial next to murder ...

"To say "well you are just not mature enough to handle it" is like saying to some kid who watched their parents get murdered in another country that they "just are not mature enough to handle it"."
Sorry, my opinion, the comparison is completely bullshit. Sorry your girlfriend had a 3 way before you , i'm sure you have to struggle with it and its hard, but she will still be there in morning, the kids parents won't be. While you chose to be with your girlfriend and can choose to dump her and find a new one that kid never chose his parents and he cannot just choose new ones, its something much more haunting than picturing a significant other fucking 2 other people at once instead of one...

This is definatly turning into a deep thoughts post...Sorry jakb still with you on the 3 some!

jakb said:

Im getting extremely tired of this! Ive sat back and tried to let this wash over but it seems that it wont.

I asked for help. The help I know some people here could give.

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Help or emotional support?

jakb said:

What I am getting from you right now is not what I asked for. So by doing something I have asked to stop, YOU ARE PUTTING YOURSELF FIRST. This contradicts your points. You are now on a self righteous, egotistical path trying desperately to prove yourself right.

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Hey, we are not arguing right and wrong here. Just truth and consequences. And really I have nothing to prove here, but arguing sure can be fun so long as it does not get personal (but even then it can be fun just in a different way). I intended to make only one post in this thread, but my points were legitimately attacked by Sikdogg which is cool, but then he got upset when he felt I was "judging him and his lifestyle". Getting upset about what some random stranger thinks about you on the internet is pretty sili if you ask me, but hey some people are more sensitive than others I guess.

Also, sorry to hijack your thread, but you could get good answers on how to get a third gal for a threesome in about 2 minutes by just going through a search engine. The fact you ask people "OK, I am so cool because my gal asked me THE MAN to have a threesome, so like how do I pull it off fellas" sounds more like bragging than sincerely asking for help. But hey, lots of braggadoccio goes on around here and much of it is downright hilarious so no I am not offended by it and I don't take offense to you openly bragging about how both your gal and you are really attractive and really cool and how every other gal on the street should be dying to sandwiched in between both of you. OK maybe those were not your exact words, but you get the point (-:

jakb said:

The ONLY people I know that have this deep need to insistently defend themselves do so because they truly dont know what their belief system is and are struggling to find it.

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Nah my belief system is pretty grounded though like any rational and intelligent human being I try and challenge my beliefs from time to time with a healthy dose of skepticism. Blind faith is not for me whether it be in my religion or a sexual fad right now in popular culture. I suggest you go rent a movie called "The Sex Monster" with Mariel Hemingway. It is a very funny movie in my humble opinion and deals with some of the issues brought up in this thread.

jakb said:

They do this by trying to convince others that they are right. All for the simple fact that they are SELFISH. If you can convince another person that you are right then you can go on feeling slightly better and more secure because you "might" actually be on the correct path and belief system. This is selfish. It is an energy steal.

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An energy steal? OK I don't know if that is a reference to Scientology or something else, but one of the tenets of a free society is that people can be evangelical about their religious, political, social, and economic beliefs and those who disagree with them can choose to ignore it. Hey, most of my friends come from many different walks of life, different faiths, upbringings, etc. and we openly discuss some of these difficult subjects to learn from each other. I myself in fact am a church going Catholic but my best friend is Jewish and my brothers are not religious at all. Do I think I am superior than my best friend because he is a jew or my brothers because they see the world differently than me? Nope. Am I afraid to express my beliefs. Nope. Why? Well because I am not a pussy that is why. People who are afraid to stand up for their beliefs don't deserve to be free, so don't give me this "energy steal" bullshit and either say "I don't feel like arguing" or else argue your counterpoint, but by all means please don't give this whiny retort of "PLEAAAAASE DON'T JUDGE ME AND HURT MY FEELINGS". OK, that might of sounded a bit harsh but then again is passively aggressively alluding to someone you don't even know first hand as being "selfish".

jakb said:

When you first replied to this email, you didnt look for what I was asking. You replied with your own agenda.

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Ahhhhh yah I come to a Penis Enlargement forum to convert filthy heathens like you into god-fearing monogymous good people who bake great brownies for the church socials. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! Yah get real dude. This is not McDonald's where you can just order what you want at a drive thru and then assuming the guy at the drive thru didn't spit in your food, you actually get exactly what you want. No this is a discussion forum and you brought up the topic of threesomes. I gave you some real advice and my opinion along with it and now you complain about someone voicing their opinion. I mean seriously do my opinions hurt your feelings or offend you? Geeeze, I hate to see the reaction of the gal you pick up if she looks at your willie and says "dude you need to do some Penis Enlargement" (-:

jakb said:

This means you were trying to prove a point. You also stated that you didnt pass judgement on the act or "us" but you just dont realize that you did.

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I was talking about sikdogg not you. For me to judge you, I would have to know you and then care enough about you as a person to bother to waste my mental energy on judging you. So no, I reiterate I am not judging you, but thanks Dr. Phil for pointing out that "I just did".

jakb said:

The judgement you passed was that you were more intelligent. I surely wouldnt be thinking of doing this act if I possibly knew as much as you do. This is ego. You needed to point out the things that I couldnt possibly have thought of "because of my lesser intelligence" and you needed to step in to save me. You assume that I didnt weigh out the risks versus the benefits myself. I have thought of the positives and the negatives long before I posted this asking for help from my Penis Enlargement brothers.

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I am more intelligent? Maybe I am maybe I am not. This "judgement" debate started when Sikdogg suggested my opinions do not matter because I don't have sex with multiple partners at a time several times a month. He alluded to the fact I am not as experienced and I said "no shit Sherlock". Hey, I was not trying to save you, I was just voicing my opinion plain and simple. The fact you are thinking long and hard (no pun intended) about getting jiggy with another gal makes me wonder why on earth you need advice from your "Penis Enlargement brothers". For crying out loud this forum is a really cool place, but not some boy scout campfire circle jerk to see who gained the most manhood in the last month. Admit it, you felt proud that your girlfriend thinks you "ARE THE MAN" and you wanted to share it with everyone on what you perceive to be an anonymous forum of a lot of well hung men thanks to Penis Enlargement.

jakb said:

Before you reply, which I know you will have to. I want you to seriously sit down and think open mindedly about what I wrote before you respond.

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Hey man, don't be so sensitive, especially if you are going to go through with this stuff. You are the guy with the dick and the balls in the relationship with your girlfriend so do whatever you are going to do and don't worry so much about what other people think about it all. Nevertheless, you posted here looking for instant approval and some moral support to drum up the courage to go fish for some bisexual woman to have sex with you and your girlfriend and amazingly you found someone give you on opinion that was unlike the "YOU GO GIRL" comments from a few other posters in this thread.

Peace.

Stuff_ said:

MCTFB, I don't know if I'm the only one, but I agree with everything you've said here in this thread 100%.

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With everything you said I could not of said it better than myself, just my tone sometimes tends to be a little more blunt and therfore offending but heh that is just me (-:

Great post nevertheless (-:

jakb said:

Tired of this bullshit...

I asked for help finding a girl for a threesome, not for all sides of the story and ethical/moral issues associated with it. By trying to "HELP" me by deciding what you think is best for me is pointless to both of us.

So unless any further posts are helping me with WHAT IVE ASKED FOR HELP WITH, I am tired of wasting my energy on it.

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Hehe, if this discussion is making you tired I feel sorry for you when you try and find the energy to please two women at the same time

:clap:

MICKsnatch said:

So are you saying 3 somes are wrong?
There are so many things that are wrong if you follow any sets of beliefs. Stuff and MCTFB (who seem extremely similar), you guys seems to be using religious, cultural, and self respecting beliefs. In many religions its wrong to jerk off, yet almost every male does it. It's wrong to lie but who here has never told a lie. I could go on for hours of normal day things every person does that is considered "wrong". Yes, these things are easily avoidable and can be worked on...the only reason i m posting becuase i think its really fucked up to have a comparison of murder to a three way...virtually trivial next to murder ...

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Define wrong? Seriously. Where do morals come from? I have had this discussion before with many atheists and well 95% of them get cottonmouthed even though this question is not religious in nature at all, just that they can't find any ground work for basing morality on. I mean, there are plenty of animals who eat their own young from time to time (cats for example), and well why shouldn't humans be allowed to do it if cats can?

The fact of the matter is it does not matter and I was making the point that having threesomes and killing someone because it makes you feel better (maybe that person made you feel bad because he called you a bad name) could be wrong or very right depending on who you ask and what their beliefs are. In civilized countries, laws are largely based on a compromise among everyone who lives there as to what they believe is right and wrong at any given time. It really is that simple, so you saying threesomes are OK but it is wrong to lie is based on your idea of right and wrong based on popular culture or law. Morality generally defines laws, not the other way around so just because something is legal does not mean it is right (that is up to every individual to decide), but something which is illegal is generally seen by the people of that community as generally wrong. Slavery was not such a big deal several hundred years ago in the United States because it was morally acceptable to the majority of people. Then when whites started losing jobs to slaves, slavery became less popular and finally leaders in the north started using moral arguments for the abolishionist movement to advance their political motives.

And for you to say comparing threesomes to murder is fucked up is just your moral interpretation of the analogy. There are plenty of people in the world in different cultures who see adultery as a more serious crime than murder, so you might as well say millions of people around the world are fucked up as well. I am not judging your morals because I don't know what they are, though if I were to pigeon hole your belief system I would say you are non-religious and you subscribe to Maxim.

MICKsnatch said:

Sorry, my opinion, the comparison is completely bullshit. Sorry your girlfriend had a 3 way before you , i'm sure you have to struggle with it and its hard, but she will still be there in morning, the kids parents won't be.

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That was my ex-girlfriend. The image of someone you love being ravaged in strange ways by other people turns a lot of people off. This is quite normal actually, just as many white guys will never date a white woman if they know she has been with a black man. My point was it caused unintended future consequences in another relationship because your actions in the present often have side effects in the future so you should be skeptical of what you allow into your life if you care about yourself and the people around you.

MICKsnatch said:

While you chose to be with your girlfriend and can choose to dump her and find a new one that kid never chose his parents and he cannot just choose new ones, its something much more haunting than picturing a significant other fucking 2 other people at once instead of one...

This is definatly turning into a deep thoughts post...Sorry jakb still with you on the 3 some!

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OK, but I thought he was sooooooooooooooooooooooo close to his gal. But what if he wants to marry her someday and what if the kids find out how kinky their parents are? I mean, if what they did was cool, then why not let the kids know about their lifestyle when they reach an acceptable age of say 18 or so.

King of assumptions! If the words were face to face, you or I would realize what was really going on, but alas having an internet discussion, especially with a subject that could be an emotional one is useless.

Youve obviously spent alot of time, energy and thought on this. Seems a waste.

Have a good one.

"Define wrong? Seriously. Where do morals come from? I have had this discussion before with many atheists and well 95% of them get cottonmouthed even though this question is not religious in nature at all, just that they can't find any ground work for basing morality on"

Theres a reason you cant define wrong. There is no such thing as "wrong", it is not concrete- it is an idea . It's liek saying definme love,hate, respect, and so on. Even though there is a general idea they mean different things to different people, their meanings are infinite.

"There are plenty of people in the world in different cultures who see adultery as a more serious crime than murder, so you might as well say millions of people around the world are fucked up as well."
Genrally yes i do. I'd much rather see my dad cheat on my mom then kill her. It would hurt my and my family immensely but it far out weighs death. Also, i don't see 3 somes as adultery - i have no wife , I see 3 willing people trying something new and maybe they can learn from it good or bad. I personally wouldn't have a 3 some
with my girlfriend and i've told her that and she would never want to. I did get head from two girls at once in highschool. It was a great experience and fun memory nothing i regret. I was jsut having fun and so were they none of us were in love.

"I am not judging your morals because I don't know what they are, though if I were to pigeon hole your belief system I would say you are non-religious and you subscribe to Maxim"
Actually i am religious, however i don't believe in the Catholic Church system. Religion and faith is an idea and when you take that idea and try to make it concrete it because corrupt. The church flourished on greed and corruption just look at the crusades or look at all the molestation cases coming from all over the country. I download ���� i beat off i've never subscribed to any ����/guy magazine. I've never been to a strip club becuase i see them as one big cock tease if i want sex i go have sex.

"OK, but I thought he was sooooooooooooooooooooooo close to his gal. But what if he wants to marry her someday and what if the kids find out how kinky their parents are? I mean, if what they did was cool, then why not let the kids know about their lifestyle when they reach an acceptable age of say 18 or so."
Parents were kids once too, they fucked up jsut like i do. MAny parents did drugs, cheated,stole, etc when they were young but usually they don't go telling their children about how "cool" it was. Teh point of my statement was exactly what you did-you dumped your X and got a new girlfriend -that kid will never get his parents back. I don't disagree with your beliefs by any means, I just think you might take some to the extreme. No one is perfect and there is no such thing as a perfect utopia world, I'm sure youve done many things you personally disagree with, everyone does.

And again i must add at the end of the post... good luck jakb!!!! sorry for the take over of your post

MICKsnatch said:

"Define wrong? Seriously. Where do morals come from? I have had this discussion before with many atheists and well 95% of them get cottonmouthed even though this question is not religious in nature at all, just that they can't find any ground work for basing morality on"

Theres a reason you cant define wrong. There is no such thing as "wrong", it is not concrete- it is an idea . It's liek saying definme love,hate, respect, and so on. Even though there is a general idea they mean different things to different people, their meanings are infinite.

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Love you man! :clap: