ephedrine IS NOT a horrible drug that kill 90 percent of the people who use it, it only can kill those who abuse it, just like aspirin and others
 
I still can't stress how much this ephedrine ban pisses me off. I myself don't use ephedrine-containing products, although I have in the past. It's an extremely useful drug if used properly, but we're all being made to suffer just because a handful of dumbasses can't read a warning label.

If a group of people convinced themselves that they were capable of breathing underwater and in trying to do so drowned, would the government outlaw the rest of the population from bathing, swimming, or doing anything water-related? Of course not. This situation is a fucking joke any way you look at it.
 
Originally posted by penguinsfan
I wouldn't go that far. I've been disappointed by his caving on so many things, but he has stood firm for American sovereignty (as well as sovereignty for everyone else) and told ineffective institutions such as the UN that serve to do little more than give legitimacy to totalitarian dictators to go fuck themselves.

When, I refer to the Nanny state, of course I refer to domestic issues. That is where I and most principled conservatives/libertarians think Bush has failed. He has expanded government discrecionary and non defense/non-war spending much more than Clinton ever did.'
Also, it is his administration and his health puppet Tommy Thompson who are pushing for further eroding the concept of "personal responsibility."
 
Originally posted by bigbutnottoo
When, I refer to the Nanny state, of course I refer to domestic issues. That is where I and most principled conservatives/libertarians think Bush has failed. He has expanded government discrecionary and non defense/non-war spending much more than Clinton ever did.'
Also, it is his administration and his health puppet Tommy Thompson who are pushing for further eroding the concept of "personal responsibility."

I agree to a large extent, though there have been some hidden victories in compromises, such as medical savings accounts in the Medicare drug bill. Anyhow, I'll tolerate a certain amount of domestic let-downs as long as I never have to pay a tax or answer to some foreign entity such as the UN. Thank God Bush took our signature off the International Criminal Court treaty.
 
Originally posted by penguinsfan
I as I never have to pay a tax or answer to some foreign entity such as the UN. Thank God Bush took our signature off the International Criminal Court treaty.

Yes, that would terrible. Especially if we ever ended up involved in anything like the EU. Unfortunately, we are getting a little too cozy with Mexico though. Bush is too concerned with Latino vote.
 
Originally posted by bigbutnottoo
Yes, that would terrible. Especially if we ever ended up involved in anything like the EU. Unfortunately, we are getting a little too cozy with Mexico though. Bush is too concerned with Latino vote.

He is taking it on the chin among the conservative media icons, as he should. I'm not even remotely anti-immigrant. Hey, if you want to be an American bad enough to risk floating through 90 miles of ocean in a raft, welcome. I'd rather have those individuals than this crowd that has no appreciate for our American values and whose only contribution to society is to regergitate Marxist garbage taught to them by some professor that would never make it outside of the womb of academic tenure.

Yes, we have jobs that go unfilled because no one wants to scrub toilets. If we stop giving people monthly checks for sitting on their asses, then someone will be forced to scrub the toilets. Either that or perhaps those needing their toilets scrubbed need to pay a higher wage. That's reasonable and a free market solution. Hey, I sure as hell wouldn't mine coal for minimum wage, because the suck-ass nature of the job and the pay do not meet, in terms of market value. I am absolutely against compromising our borders to solve this supposed labor shortage.
 
Hey, I LOVE immigrants ( and I mean that literally). My post was more in reference to extending Social Security benefits to illegal aliens who live in other countries, such as Mexicans who never become legal, come over and work, then file for S.S. from mexico.

Actually I glad to see some conservatives coming out and being pro-immigrant.


As far as ephedrine. I used to take the shit and it does work. It does have side effects, but it should not be a problem for anyone staying within dosage guidelines. I am not surprised this happened, but it bothers me still.
 
I personally never noticed any side-effects from ephedrine, but I always stayed within the guidelines. To a person like me, cursed with an incredibly slow metabolism, ephedrine has been a God-send. I am so lucky I bought six bottle of Trim Spa a couple weeks ago.
 
BTW, there is still much ephedrine to be found at the convenience stores, where they sell it in the little cases. It's often sold in small packs of 2-4 pills, but sometimes in bottles too. I have no idea about the dosage and the effectiveness for weight loss. Formulas like Xenadrine, Hydroxycut, etc. are formulated for weight loss, whereas that shit all claims to be energy boosters. The guy at the local 7-11 says everyone buys it for a cheap cocaine effect. Huh? I've never heard of ephedrine being used in that way and don't see how it would work for such benefits.
 
Yeah... stupid asshole kids buy the little 4 packs of Stacker2 or Yellow Jackets and eat 'em by the handful to get "buzzed". I've heard of kids taking 9 pills at once. Fucking idiots. I'm all for taking pills, but not even I would take that many Stackers. It's just pure stupidity.

People are just getting dumber and it's always somebody else's fault.
 
Exactly. Charles Darwin referred to people dying by such practices as natural selection.
 
A) Ephedrine HCL (synthetic pharmacutical grade compound) is NOT banned in most of america.

B) Ephedra based herbals are now banned across the country.

Do a search on google for:

Vasopro

It's sold as a Expectorant/Bronchodilator and contains:

25mg Ephedrine HCL
200mg Guaifenesin

And it's 100% legal to purchase in America...

As an adjunct -

Yeah, 110 or so deaths have been LINKED to ephedra in the past 10 years or so.

So we have what, 10 or 11 deaths a year linked to this 'killer herb' and how many people die each year from cigs and booze?

It's all about the soccer mom vote.
 
WideAwake said:
A) Ephedrine HCL (synthetic pharmacutical grade compound) is NOT banned in most of america.

B) Ephedra based herbals are now banned across the country.

Do a search on google for:

Vasopro

It's sold as a Expectorant/Bronchodilator and contains:

25mg Ephedrine HCL
200mg Guaifenesin

Are you supposed to have any kind of script? Is it expensive? Is this version as effective for metabolism benefits?
 
penguinsfan said:
Are you supposed to have any kind of script? Is it expensive? Is this version as effective for metabolism benefits?

No, it is sold over the counter, no script is needed.

It is very cheap, $7 for 60 tablets.

As far as a version...let me explain.

Ephedra is a herbal plant that contains about 27 different alkoloids, each alkoloids has certain properties and does different things. There is one of those very specific alkoloids though that has the stimulant and thermogenic properties that are so sought after.

Now, Ephedrine HCL (hydro-chloride) is the synthetic version of this one specific alkoloid.

To answer you questions simply, Ephedrine HCL is a MUCH better substance for weight loss/nutrient repartioning (how it really works...) and thermogenic responses. It's basically as good as it gets. Period.

I have no experience with Primatene at all, so I can't say one way or the other. I would think a quick search would answer this though.
 
For those that are interested...

Here is the link to the FDA rule:

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2004/NEW01021.html


Now, Vasopro (ephedrine HCL) will remain legal because everything we've seen thus far from the FDA has centered around the ban of ephedrine as a natural dietary supplement. The form of ephdrine in vasopro (and gas station like products) is not natural (being an HCL salt and not an extract) nor is it marketed as a supplement but rather a decongestant or broncodialator. If all the sames of ephedrine (unlikely) were to move to vasopro and the like then I would expect it to quickly become illegal or perscription one. Given the FDA's record I wouldn't be suprised if within a year a study was released on the guaifenesin stating it causes cancer or makes your penis turn black and fall off and thus needs to be immediatly banned...

In any event we will have to wait and see what becomes of the gas station variety ephedrine. Perhaps the gas co.'s will pull it voluntarily which frankly I think might be for the best. As long as its that easy to get (and a gas station is even more convienient than GNC) I beleive the FDA will not sit idle. If it becomes an obscure item hard to find on the net then we will probably be ok.

We will have to wait a few months to see what happens to the statics for ephedrine us/sale after the ban.
 
"Primatene® is the #1 over-the-counter medicine sold for the relief of physician-diagnosed, bronchial astHydromaxa.


Active Ingredients:

Each tablet contains ephedrine hydrochloride USP "bronchodilator", 12.5 mg and guaifenesin USP "expectorant", 200 mg. "

So, I take it this is the same substance you were talking about?
I am guessing it might be best to take this along with aspirin with a cup of coffee.
 
I see Vasopro has twice as much as Primatene though. Does anyone know or know a place to find out what the optimal dosages are for ECA stack?
 
"What dosages should I take?
The ideal ratio for the ECA stack is 10:1 caffeine to ephedrine. Many sources suggest that the ideal dosage is 25mg ephedrine, 250mg caffeine and 80-300mg aspirin."
 
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