Fox News lobbying arm for right wing....

Spektrum,are you with me or against me? Do you think Im too outspoken?

Anyone who makes more than 90K is extremely rich. As far as the US and being super rich, the upper 1% of the country makes $250K or more a year. Thats who Bush gave the majority of his tax cuts to. The bottom 60% of the population got 14.7% of the overall tax cut.

In Tibilisi, Georgia, a bunch of civilians stormed the parliment in a non-violent way and burned the newly elected presidents chair. The countrys is now in a state of emergency. The people are demanding the president's removal from office because the recent election was rigged.

That would of been cool if that happened in the U.S. in 2000, when the Supreme Court took the presidency away from Gore and gave it to Bush. Like the Velvet Revolution.

Originally posted by NeXus
if you add up the Bachelors degree's percentages you get this,
50% of people who have Bachelors are Dems
38.4% of people who have Bach. are Repubs

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In the sample group, there were 1.7 times as many democrats. However in the numbers you just quote, there are only 1.3 times as many Dems with Bachelors.

When you normalize the numbers, that means a democrat is less likely to have a Bachelors than a republican.

Apparently democrats and liberals aren't so smart or I wouldn't have to keep explaining this.

Originally posted by NeXus
the upper 1% of the country makes $250K or more a year.

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And pay 30% of the federal income taxes. The upper 5% pay 50% of the federal income taxes.

Originally posted by Spektrum
Read the "Communist Manifesto" ... Read some of the writings of Karl Marx...

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Then read about the collapse of Communism around the world due to the fact that their theories were divorced from reality.

Marx didn't have a clue how real economies worked, so the systems set up based on his theories produced shortages and in many cases starvation. The goods that were produced were of craptastic quality.

Communism and socialism cannot sustain freedom of choice -- and so are always at war with the people -- regulation and surpression are the order of the day.

When people are free, they make spontaneous markets between themselves. This cannot be allowed under communism or socialism -- and therefore Big Brother must montior everyone all the time.

Captialism is the only economic system consistent with freedom, because people are free to succeed -- or to fail.

Originally posted by NeXus


bigbutnottoo seems to think that their is some left-wing democratic conspiracy to take over the world and to keep blacks repressed and kids stupid. Thats so off base theres not even a response for it besides your wrong. Oh, and your telling me that you would rather the Repubs do favors for heartless big oil and energy corporations than the Dems do favors for Teachers Unions? Your crazy. Oh and you fail to support your Slave Master George Bush of the No Child Left Behind Act. All you say is some rederick of a secret agenda which sounds like something from O'Reilly.

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How is it off base? Everything i have said is true at least in practice. Why do you think Democrats used a Hitler gun law to outlaw "Saturday Night "Nigger" Specials"? Everything in politics is about keeping your constituents content and ignorantly oppressed
Youve neveronce read anything I have written. I do not support George Bush. Cant stand him or Ashcroft. Ifyouread what I said, I even gave you a free point for George Bush. I am the one who brought up the point of oil- i didnt say that was better than Dem special interests. ALL specialinterests are pretty much bad. I'm an EO politico basher.As I said, I dont agree with No Child Left behind. The entire department of education should be abolished. As Much as I despise Bush, I always get sick of people blaming him for everything when most all Democrats and Republicans are just as bad. I am a libertarian.

Get it through your thick skull, that just because someone is not a communist doesnt mean he is a Republican.

I enjoy debating politics as much as you all do, but I do have a suggestion. If we are going to argue U.S. politics, please read or understand the U.S. Constitution and have at least a FresHydromaxan understanding of Economics. Read something such as "Basic Economics." Arguing either ( Constitution or Economics) with me is akin to debating the Bible with God.


For whomever cares as far as where I am from,education,etc. I am not from the "deep south". I am from MD. In fact I kinda cringe whenever I drive into Virginia where I am greeted by Confederate flags.
Also, I have a Bachelor in Economics/Political Science,minor in History from a public university and am applying to Law School with an LSAT in the high 160s. I am a Mensan.

Originally posted by bobbdobbs
Then read about the collapse of Communism around the world due to the fact that their theories were divorced from reality.

Marx didn't have a clue how real economies worked, so the systems set up based on his theories produced shortages and in many cases starvation. The goods that were produced were of craptastic quality.

Communism and socialism cannot sustain freedom of choice -- and so are always at war with the people -- regulation and surpression are the order of the day.

When people are free, they make spontaneous markets between themselves. This cannot be allowed under communism or socialism -- and therefore Big Brother must montior everyone all the time.

Captialism is the only economic system consistent with freedom, because people are free to succeed -- or to fail.

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NeXuS: Trust me, I'm totally with you.

If you actually read the communist manifesto, you would see that it was more about a classless society and socialism than communism.

Big brother should monitor the greedy rich, because if you do not, you end up getting the terrible laissez-faire capitalism that we have in this country. Why do you think markets such as power production are regulated? EVERY corporation should be regulated, but they are not because politicians get their pockets padded by them.

I do not feel bad for the top 1% paying 30% of the taxes. After paying taxes, the LEAST they see is 130k a year, which is still over 10x more than the 9k the $6/hr public servant is seeing.

I still do not understand how we as a country have a minimum wage that is well below the level of poverty. Does that make sense? Of course it doesn't, but the less you pay the worker, the more money you have to pay the stockholders and CEO's. That is a capatilist society. The one you speak so highly of.

This is the problem with America. Socialist countries like Canada do not have NEAR the amount of problems this country has with crime rates, the poor, health care, etc. But we Americans blindly love this failed system of Capitalism and will fight for it until the bitter end. Many people that are comfortable or well off do nothing more than fight for that comfort. They do not give two shits about the poor as long as they are comfortable. Too many of us have the 'who cares, as long as it doesn't affect me and the suburb I live in' attitude.

Let me tell you, it WILL affect you eventually. The poor will not take too much more of this oppression before they start revolting. It has happened in history many times and this country is due for another uprising. Personally, I do not think it will happen in the next 5 years, but if this country keeps on its current path, you will definitly see it in less than 10.

I really recommend reading "Dude, Where's My Country?". It might be a little extreme, but it is packed with facts(not opinions) that will make you lift an eyebrow or two.

Im not really a gun-ho person, so Im not saying your wrong about the gun-control stuff. But you should watch Bowling for Columbine. Good documentary.

Im definatley not a communist. I just dont think its fair that people with so much money get to run our country. Its supposed to be a democracy of the people, not a select few.

I found a good site about Bush's Tax Cut.
http://www.ctj.org/html/gwb03st.htm

Now I know that you said that you dont support Bush. All Im saying there needs to be a new kind of capatalism instead of Crony Capatilism.

Originally posted by Spektrum
Socialist countries like Canada do not have NEAR the amount of problems this country has with ... health care ...

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From the Canadian Fraser Institute:

The comparative evidence is that the Canadian health care model is inferior to others that are in place in the OECD. It produces inferior access to physicians and technology, produces longer waiting times, is less successful in preventing deaths from preventable causes, and costs more than any of the other systems that have comparable objectives. The models that produce superior results and cost less than Canada’s monopoly-insurer, monopoly-provider system have: user fees; alternative, comprehensive, private insurance; and private hospitals that compete for patient demand. The overwhelming evidence is that Canada has a comparatively underperforming system of health care delivery...

Originally posted by bobbdobbs
From the Canadian Fraser Institute:

The comparative evidence is that the Canadian health care model is inferior to others that are in place in the OECD. It produces inferior access to physicians and technology, produces longer waiting times, is less successful in preventing deaths from preventable causes, and costs more than any of the other systems that have comparable objectives. The models that produce superior results and cost less than Canada’s monopoly-insurer, monopoly-provider system have: user fees; alternative, comprehensive, private insurance; and private hospitals that compete for patient demand. The overwhelming evidence is that Canada has a comparatively underperforming system of health care delivery...

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At least everyone has health care over there. Our country runs and builds hospitals for other countries while a great percentage of Americans go without.

Canada's system is recognized as one of the best in the world. I don't know who wrote the above, but it does not seem to line up.

The way prescription drugs are priced in Canada is this....

They have a new drug come out say, Paxil.

They price the drug of Paxil by takin the highest price on the market, which is the U.S. drug price. And the lowest of the top five prices around the world. Lets say Sweden had the lowest of the top five prices in the world.

They take the median of those numbers and the set the price of that drug to never excede the median. Pretty smart and fair.

Oh and the U.S. has one of the highest if not the highest prescription drug cost in the world. Charts show that US prices are somtimes double or more than others.

Dude, Where's My Country is a bible. What I love the most is that everything he says is backed by resources that are 100% accurate and he cites everything from major mainstream media sources. Unlike Ann Coulter who takes shit out of context and also knows that none of her readers are ever gonna look her shit up. Until Al Franken made her look stupid.

Originally posted by NeXus
Al Franken made her look stupid.

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Al Franken goes around challenging everyone to fist fights. Yeah, he's a real rocket scientist all right.

Originally posted by Spektrum
Canada's system is recognized as one of the best in the world.

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That's a laugh. Huge waiting lists for life and death surgeries. When people cross borders for emergency health care -- it is massively from Canada to the US.

But something fundamentally horrible about Canada's system is that it is illegal for anyone to purchase health care.

You would think a fundamental right of any human being would be to make arrangements with who they please for health care.

Not in socialist paradise Canada though. You need government permission to attend to the health of your own body. That's outrageous.

Socialism is always a war against the individual. The individual is expendable in socialism. You have no worth as an individual per se under socialism -- you are only measured as a unit of society.

Originally posted by NeXus
the U.S. has one of the highest if not the highest prescription drug cost in the world. Charts show that US prices are somtimes double or more than others.

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Which is actually humanitarian for the rest of the world, since we end up subsidizing drugs for poorer countries.

You see, the cost of manufacturing a drug is a small part of the cost of developing and testing it in the first place. Lots of drugs never get to market -- so lots of false starts cost lots of development money and it never gets paid back.

So successful drugs have to pay for their own development and a lot of dead end attempts. All very expensive.

So you price a drug to pay that development cost plus cost of manufacture -- amortized over some length of years. But if you can also sell that drug to a poorer country at a reduced price, you cover the net cost of manufacture and a little of the development cost. So the company has marginally increased its income versus expenses by selling cheap to poor countries.

But this only works with a tier system. They can't sell to everyone at the lower price -- so if governments force uniform prices, the poor countries won't be able to afford it. US consumers will lose those foreign marginal payers, and so the internal price of drugs will also go up.

So the current scheme of tiered pricing actually delivers the lowest price to both internal and external consumers.

Naturally, socialists who don't understand economics want to set prices -- which will screw up budgets for new drugs and really slow down the development of new drugs.

It's estimated that the FDA delay in approving the use of beta blockers cost 200,000 lives due to unnecessary heart attacks.

Delaying the introduction of new drugs kills people by omission. Socialists and liberals don't seem to be able to understand that concept.

Originally posted by bobbdobbs

It's estimated that the FDA delay in approving the use of beta blockers cost 200,000 lives due to unnecessary heart attacks.

Delaying the introduction of new drugs kills people by omission. Socialists and liberals don't seem to be able to understand that concept.

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I guess they'd rather kill 200,000 than expose a couple million people to a 1% chance of a headache or diarrea.

You act like America's health care is perfect. At least in Canada your not turned down help if you dont have insurance and cant afford it. Plus there's millions of people in America with no health insurance at all even though they have jobs. If these owners and CEO's of the companies, like Pfizer, would take a slight profit decrease then things could be different. But they sit on their greedy, rich fat asses only worried about their profit percentage. And now with this new Medicare bill passed by Bush, it allows the Insurance companies and Pharmeceutical companies to charge the government whatever they want for drugs. And they have the nerve to tell people they cant or shouldn't goto Canada to get the same drug for cheaper? I say fuck'em. Oh, Canada....

Originally posted by NeXus
You act like America's health care is perfect. At least in Canada your not turned down help if you dont have insurance and cant afford it. Plus there's millions of people in America with no health insurance at all even though they have jobs. If these owners and CEO's of the companies, like Pfizer, would take a slight profit decrease then things could be different. But they sit on their greedy, rich fat asses only worried about their profit percentage. And now with this new Medicare bill passed by Bush, it allows the Insurance companies and Pharmeceutical companies to charge the government whatever they want for drugs. And they have the nerve to tell people they cant or shouldn't goto Canada to get the same drug for cheaper? I say fuck'em. Oh, Canada....

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1. I don't see anything wrong with "America's Healthcare" considering that term itself is a misnomer. My private health concerns are mine, not America's. I have used health care providers and I am happy with their service, billing etc.

2. The reality is: In America, hospitals will not turn you down for non-payment.People being turned down for health service is practically a myth. Thats why poor people or people with no insurance go to the emergency room instead of using a normal doctor, even if they only have a cold. They know they will get treated and not have to pay.

3.I dont have health insurance, and I dont want it. I sure as hell dont want the government forcing me to have it. When I was in college, I had it through my parents employer and it was a pain in the neck getting an apointment for anything, with the referrals, co-pays, non-pays,etc. Now I pay as I go-I prefer it that way and so far I save money.

4. Greed is good. The profit motive has basically been the catalyst for every significant innovation in modern history. However, I do agree that many CEOs are grossly overpaid, especially when they do a terrible job-it does sicken me to see massive layoffs while a CEO gets bonuses..BUT- that is really that company's choice and business. they can pay whatever they want.

5. There should be no Medicare Bill..or Medicare.

6. Right, we should be able to buy drugs from other countries. I have no problem with that.

Originally posted by bigbutnottoo

4. Greed is good. The profit motive has basically been the catalyst for every significant innovation in modern history. However, I do agree that many CEOs are grossly overpaid, especially when they do a terrible job-it does sicken me to see massive layoffs while a CEO gets bonuses..BUT- that is really that company's choice and business. they can pay whatever they want.

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I really recommend watching John Q. It's about America's health system and the way it operates. Even though it is a movie, a lot of things in it hold true. I watched it with my mom, who's been a nurse for years and said things like that do happen(but usually not to children).

Greed is never good. It's definitly not the catalyst for every innovation in modern history. Look at what Henry Ford did. He raised his worker's salaries so they could afford the same cars they were building. He did this at his own expense and it was something modern CEO's would never even consider doing. (just a side note, I know he didn't invent the car, but did invent the assembly line, the reason we have so many cars today). We need more Henry Fords in this world.

I've always said, a lot of people live poor in this country, so a few can live rich.

Originally posted by Spektrum
I really recommend watching John Q.

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The unintended true message of John Q was that there is a scarcity of organ donors.

When the character Denzel played got his kid a donor organ, someone else didn't get it.

John Q didn't show the family waiting for the organ that Denzel's kid got.

Well, the INTENDED message of John Q was the money hungry corruption of hospitals and insurance companies.