gorillaunit

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Mar 29, 2004
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i've read as much as i could find on it, but i'm still a little unsure. first of all, what does LOT stand for? second, when i start at 6 and pull, i only have a very very slight pull back. but as i move up the clock to 12, the pullback gets stronger and stronger. what does this mean? do i have a low or high LOT? i don't know if this means anything, but my erection angle is pretty high at around 11. does this mean that i will have good potential from hanging down or BTC? thanks.
 

gorillaunit

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Mar 29, 2004
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Bib said:
gorilla,

If there is anything else you need to know, just ask.

It sounds from your first post that you need to be a little more refined.

BTW, from the stats I reviewed, there was no correlation between erection angle and LOT.

Bigger

yeah, i read SWM's link to your post and it answered a lot of my questions. i found out that i should be looking for a pullback rather than feeling a slight sensation of a tugback. but, i still do have a question. how hard should i be stretching outward (this seems to make a significant difference)? any tips? thanks for your help.
 

Bib

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gorilla,

>yeah, i read SWM's link to your post and it answered a lot of my questions. i found out that i should be looking for a pullback rather than feeling a slight sensation of a tugback.<

That is correct. You must see the tugback, not feel it. You are looking for the angle at which the ligs are taking the stress from the stretch , and not the inner shaft.

>but, i still do have a question. how hard should i be stretching outward (this seems to make a significant difference)? any tips? thanks for your help.<

Just stretch enough to keep a light tension on the shaft. The ligs have very little elastin fibers in them. So they should not stretch very much with hand tension while doing the test. Probably more important is that you should try and keep the same amount of tension as you move down while kegaling.

Another tip: Do the test while standing in front of a mirror. It might be easier to see the tugback in the mirror, and when the ligs begin to take the stress. Also, it will be easier to see the exact angle at which the ligs take the stress.

Bigger
 

gorillaunit

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excellent! thanks for the tips. okay, i stood in front of a mirror and did it. i noticed a definate pullback at around 8. below that, it seemed too minor to count. where i really notice movement though, is on top of the shaft where it meets my fat pad (going into my body). don't know if monitoring tugback on that area means anything though.

so, is 8 considered medium? do i have a lot of lig potential? again, thanks for your help.
 

Bib

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Jun 22, 2004
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gorilla,

>excellent! thanks for the tips. okay, i stood in front of a mirror and did it. i noticed a definate pullback at around 8. below that, it seemed too minor to count. where i really notice movement though, is on top of the shaft where it meets my fat pad (going into my body). don't know if monitoring tugback on that area means anything though.<

No, that would be the flexing of the ligs.

>so, is 8 considered medium?<

Probably.

>do i have a lot of lig potential? again, thanks for your help.<

About average. You should be able to gain somewhat from lig stretch .

Bigger
 

Brugga

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Oct 14, 2003
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I must be dense... I still don't understand how you determine when your ligaments are pulling back, or what it all means. It's pretty obvious to me that this is a subject I need to understand if I want my efforts to be efficient.

Can someone break this down from square one, so a moron can follow it? :idea:
 

Bib

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Brugga,

In those LOT threads, there should be some drawings I made that shows exactly the relationship between the tunica and ligs. It might be helpful if you reviewed them.

Simply put, the ligs attach to the tunica of the shaft at some point, different for every guy. Also, ligament length will be different for every guy.

So, where the ligs attach to the tunica, or shaft, the length of the ligs from the pubic bone to the shaft, and a few other factors dictate a guy's LOT.

If you have a low LOT, 6-7, then it means that you have long ligs, or that your attachment is well within, or close to your body. In that case, you should concentrate on upper stretches or OTS hanging which will target the entire tunica, from the prostate to the head.

If you have a higher LOT, greater than 7-8, it means your ligs are shorter, or attach further from the body, and can benefit from lower stretches or lower angle hanging . This will lengthen the ligs, allow more penis from within the body to be exposed. Usually the gains are more rapid.

The thing is, with lower angle hanging , below an individual LOT, the ligs interupt the stress. The stress will be on the outer tunica, and the ligs, and the inner tunica will not be affected. With higher angle hanging , the entire tunica will be stressed.

If you have a low LOT at a particular point in time, there is not much reason to stress your ligs at that time. It would probably be more profitable to stress the entire tunica, inner and outer, and by growing your inner tunica, increase your LOT. As inner tunica length increases, the attachment point of the ligs will be effectively moved away from the body, and LOT should rise. Then, after cementing inner tunica gains, you can concentrate on the ligs.

Bigger
 

Brugga

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I followed the links to the posts on 🙈's Place, but didn't find any diagrams. I did find some posts that I hadn't read before, however, and I think I might understand a little better.

If I see a Loss Of Tugback at about 9 O'clock, then I need to be hanging between the cheeks, correct?
 

Brugga

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So, what exactly is it that causes the Tugback? Just so I understand the anatomy better.
 

Bib

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Brugga,

>So, what exactly is it that causes the Tugback? Just so I understand the anatomy better.<

The shaft is attached to the BC and/or PC muscles at the anchor point of the root of the penis. When you flex these muscles, such as when you stop urine flow, the flex causes the shaft to pull back.

Bigger
 

DLD

doublelongdaddy
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(Copied from 🙈)

Theory:

The shorter, tighter or higher the ligs, the higher the angle required to lose ‘tugback’ when stretching the penis and kegaling at the same time.

The shorter, tighter, or higher the ligs, the more ‘inner’ penis, and the more quick, easy gains which are possible, and possibly the more total gains which are possible as the ligs are lengthened.

The longer, looser, or lower the ligs, the less ‘inner’ penis, and the harder the gains and possibly less total gains which are possible.

The longer time spent Penis Enlargementing, the lower the angle at which tugback is lost due to a lengthening of the ligs. This assumes Penis Enlargement is performed at lower angles, at least somewhat, by all subjects.

The less time spent Penis Enlargementing, the higher the angle at which tugback is lost because ligs have not been stretched.

For those with shorter, tighter, or higher ligs, a lengthening of the ligs correlates with a lowering of angle of tugback loss, and an increase in penis length .

Assumption: Those with more length gains started with shorter, tighter, or higher ligs and their ligs have been lengthened through Penis Enlargement. It would be nice to have starting measures for tugback loss and erection angle, but I think the stats speak to this problem. I know that for myself, before Penis Enlargement, my tugback loss angle HAD to be extremely high. If you started with high ligs, and you have made good gains, you will probably recognize that your entire package is now lower, indicating an increase in the length of your ligs.

As concerns erection angle vs. tugback angle loss, it must be realized that other factors affect erection angle other than lig tightness such as erection strength and tunica shape.

Analysis

I used Excel to create a table of data. Then, I correlated the variables in pairs. The only calculation made from the data was gains per month. The variable, “loss of tugback” is abbreviated as LOT. It is measured from 12:00 or straight up, to 6:00 or straight down.

The following is a rough analysis of the data given by the above 24 guys. With only 24 subjects, the results cannot be deemed to be conclusive, but I think it points to some definite tendencies and some rough guidelines can be produced. Hopefully, we can get some more participants to improve the reliability of the theories.

I will look at the data in three groupings and discuss the relevant correlations: Total participants, guys over and under 1.5 inches of total gains, and guys over and under 0.083 inches gained per month.

Total data:

Only minor correlations can be found when looking at all participants. Apart from things that are obvious, such as total length being highly correlated with gains (0.875), there is only one relevant correlation. That is as time goes on, gains per month goes down, correlation= -0.605.

There are minor negative correlations between LOT and total length (-0.27), and LOT and gains (-0.24). This is a result of big gainers lowering the LOT as gains and therefore total length increase.

There is also a slight correlation between LOT and erect angle (0.22). The lower the angle of LOT the more lig stretch and gains. The looser ligs result is a slightly lower erection angle. This shows up in the amount of time spent Penis Enlargementing and erection angle with a (-0.356) correlation.

Gains:

It has been obvious to me for a long time that physiology has a lot to do with gains. I think this can be examined by everyone, and especially new guys by testing the LOT and comparing to others. So, in this context, I wanted to look at two groups, high gainers and low gainers. For this analysis, I divided the two groups by the median total gain which is 1.325 inches. This gave two equal groups. The high gain group contains RB, DLD, Avocet, Dino, SWM, Goingdeep, toid, dasheming, Hobby, luv, Pinocchio, and me. The low group contains restnom, Growingup, WestLA, Long2Blong, Realpuffus, Phat, Johan, SS4, Sappy, j384, Penismith, and mike2002.

Things become somewhat clearer when looking at the data in this manner. It becomes obvious that for the high group, as LOT goes down, gains (-0.768) and total length (-0.712) go up. For the low group, there was NO correlation.

Truly interesting is the correlation between erection angle and LOT. For the high group, as LOT goes down, erection angle goes up (-.044). For the low group, as LOT goes up, erection angle goes up (.053)!!

Also, the relation to time and gains per month is clear; (-0.73) for the high group, and (-0.63) for the low group.

Gains per month:

The next step was to further group the data by dividing into two groups according to gains per month. This gives the ability to see the problem with hard gainers.

The median of the 24 subjects is 0.083inches per month. Those in the higher group are; RB, DLD, avocet, Growingup, WestLA, Long2Blong, goingdeep, toid, dasheming, Hobby, luv, and me. Those in the lower group are; retsnom, Realpuffus, Dino, SWM, Phat, Johan, SS4, Sappy, Pinocchio, j384, Penismith, and mike2002.

These groupings revealed some interesting results.

For the high group, as total length is increased, LOT is decreased (-0.75). For the low group, there is a small POSITIVE correlation (0.19). Also, for the high group, as gains go up, LOT goes down (-0.756). For the low group, as gains go up, LOT also goes UP (0.433)!

For the high group, as time goes up, LOT goes down ((-0.72). For the low group, there is again a small POSITIVE correlation (0.25).

Summary:

So what does all this mean? I think the best way to examine it is to look at individuals. First, as I said before, the assumption is that big gainers started with high tight ligs. That was my situation. Looking at the big gainers, the more gains, the lower the LOT. This seems to firmly indicate a lengthening of the ligs allowing a significant portion of penis to be revealed. The biggest gainer, DLD has the lowest LOT, 6:00. RB, avocet, toid, and I are tied for 2nd at 7:00. While some of us could profit from more lig work, the majority of future gains will come from tunica stretch . We have some long ligs.

The other members of the high group, while getting good gains, probably mostly from lig stretch , still have good potential for gains in the ligs, either hanging or stretching at lower angles. Dasheming has already gained 1.75”, but has a LOT of 9. He might be a big’un some day.

Gains problems in the lower group are evident. The problems of Johan, Sappy, SS4, j384, Penismith, and mike2002 are fairly plain. They all have very low LOTs, but not much gain to show for it. Their LOTs are as low as the big gainers. To me, this indicates that they ALWAYS had a low exit point and therefore little inner penis. They did not have the opportunity to get any easy gains. Through hard work, several of them have made gains over time, probably mainly through tunica stretch . They should concentrate on working the upper angles of hang or stretch . Also, DLD twists and upward lateral stretches might be the ticket. With consistent dedicated stress, at the upper angle, they should make progress.

Retsnom, Realpuffas, Dino, SWM, Phat, and Pinocchio are a little different. They do have potential in their ligs to gain more length from lig stretch , even though some of them have already gained pretty well. But they have had to put in a tremendous amount of time and effort to get those gains, probably because of some really genetically tough collagenous tissues. Sometimes, that is just the way it is. The only thing to do is try to find ways to increase the stress, still working lower angles, and they should be able to get plenty more gains.

I had a lot of other crap I wanted to write about, but damned if I can remember what they were. Questions would be appreciated.

Bigger

How to determine LOT

ICM,

>For working out my LOT, am I looking for a complete loss of tugback, or just heavily reduced / weak? I would be happy to have a high LOT, and I´d say that mine must be at about 8:00 currently, but there is still a minor amount of tugback at that level. It´s small, but there. In fact, there´s a tiny amount till very far down. <

It could be two things. First, you could have a range of angles where the ligs and tunica are taking various amount of the stress. This would cause a gradual loss of tugback. Or second, you might be going by feel instead of seeing the loss of tugback. Do not judge by the flex of the PC, but rather by seeing the actual tugback.

>I´ve not done much stretching , and I´m only two weeks into my routine, so I wouldn´t expect to have a very low LOT.<

This is not correct. Some guys start out with low LOTs and some start out with high LOTs. The guys that have gained a lot and are low, probably had high LOTs to begin with. That is the theory. An LOT of 8:00 is medium.

>What´s the verdict? Does the tugback have to be gone completely?<

When the actual, visual tugback is gone completely, the ligs are taking all the stress.

Bigger
 
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I know gorillaunit has it down now, but here are a few relevant LOT questions I had on the subject, which Bib answered.


I read a post where you described how you can tell about how much inner penis you can bring out. That's interesting. I've been feeling around that area since I was a kid . I have done Penis Enlargement for almost 8 months now and have gained 1.75 inches in NBPenis EnlargementL. I still have 3 inches of inner penis as it would turn out. I am not sure how much I had before Penis Enlargement or if that ever changes or what, but I just thought that was a bit of cool information to know. Thanks for that.

I was trying to get a feel for how much more I could gain from manual stretching of the ligs. I'm having trouble finding my LOT. Am I looking for the ligs to kind of stop resisting or is it something else? I've been trying not focus on the feel and looking for the movement, but am not exactly certain what I am looking for. There are certain angles that make it really hard for me to even have much resistance from the kegel and I can reach my maximum stretch length almost. I can stretch my penis out to the maximum for stretching straight out while kegeling. I have noticed the most movement there. Stretching straight down I don't notice a thing. And hardly anything happens below stretching straight out.

So, what does any of this mean if it means anything?


"You are looking for the point at which the ligs take the stress of the stretch away from the inner tunica. Three things you are dealing with: The outer tunica/shaft, which always takes stress; the ligs, which take the stress from a stretch if it is at a downward angle, and the LOT is high enough; and the inner tunica/shaft, which takes the stress of the stretch when stretching at a high angle, or the LOT is low enough."

"The ligs are the break point between the inner and outer tunica. They attach to the tunica at about the exit point of the shaft."

"If you start at a high angle, say 12:00, stretch from the head, then kegal, you should SEE the head pull back. Then, slowly lower the angle of stretch down to 11, 10, 9, etc., and continue kegaling. At some point, you will notice the head does not pull back as much, or none at all. When the head stops pulling back very much, the ligs have begun to take the stress of the stretch , and that is your LOT."

"So, what to do about it? If it is about 8:00 or higher, you can probably benefit a lot from stretching the ligs, using downward angles. If it is below 7:00, work on the upper angles, stressing the inner and outer tunicas, and raising your LOT."

"Write the number and date down, for future reference. You will probably want to know about any changes."

"If you can benefit from lig stretch , and consistantly stretch or hang at the lower angles, you will probably express more inner penis, and also lower your LOT. When/if it gets very low, and gains slow or stop, you will want to switch to the upper angles."

-Bib


Thanks again Bib .
 

dex

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May 1, 2004
Messages
411
Bib said:
If you have a low LOT at a particular point in time, there is not much reason to stress your ligs at that time. It would probably be more profitable to stress the entire tunica, inner and outer, and by growing your inner tunica, increase your LOT. As inner tunica length increases, the attachment point of the ligs will be effectively moved away from the body, and LOT should rise. Then, after cementing inner tunica gains, you can concentrate on the ligs.

Bigger
Is it really possible to get new lig potential from an increased LOT due to tunica working at the upper angles?
Do you ever heard from some guy who had an dead LOT at six,raised his LOT and gained again from lig stretch ?
 

Bib

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dex,

>Is it really possible to get new lig potential from an increased LOT due to tunica working at the upper angles?<

Yes.

>Do you ever heard from some guy who had an dead LOT at six,raised his LOT and gained again from lig stretch ?<

Yes. You might go through threads at 🙈 and here, using the key words, and find the reports.

Bigger
 

Beloved13

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Feb 10, 2007
Messages
90
so would a loss of tug at 1 be pointing straight down and a loss of tug at 12 be pulling straight up or what?
 
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